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One of the nice things about people who are different from us is that they can fill in some of the gaps or encourage us to do things that don't come naturally for us. Like reaching out. I don't think he'll reach out to you. If you don't reach out to him, then it's a standoff.
 

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I suggest a flow chart of your feelings and interactions. Something concrete he can look at the put your relationship in perspective. Also apologise for expressing your feelings without some kind of logical explanation of them, and say you will never do it again. Tell him more things (based in feelings) that might take him by surprise and explain them with logic. Show him you are capable of being rational and that you've learned from your mistakes.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
One of the nice things about people who are different from us is that they can fill in some of the gaps or encourage us to do things that don't come naturally for us. Like reaching out. I don't think he'll reach out to you. If you don't reach out to him, then it's a standoff.

*A little update*

So I did reach out after 10 days of silence.. I asked him to bring my things kindly and he did right away..
He was smiling the whole time, I felt weird, his smile was as if all of this is not serious, or like he was really happy to see me, I couldn't register it. My heart was killing me the whole time. He kept asking me how I'm doing and when I asked back he said "exactly the same as before". So he hasn't missed me or anything.
So I thanked him for the good memories and the non physical gifts he's given me and walked away.
I didn't really answer his question as I usually do, so in the evening I texted him that I've been learning a lot during this time and took responsibility for my own mistakes, without begging or saying sorry again. Just short and to the point. And acknowledged how much I appreciate him and how happy he made me feel.
He replied that he doesn't know how to respond to this and that he was happy to see me smile and that I was happy about my work. And I responded that it's a lot to process, so I wasn't really expecting any immediate response. And that's it.
That was yesterday.
I don't intend to reach out again. Ever. I feel like I've done more than my best.. and it's in his hands now.
Also it feels like if this doesn't make him want to be close to me again, then the care from his side just wasn't enough, or real, at all. I guess I'm moving on, with all the pain, he just doesn't seem to care for me at all.

Maybe time will do its thing.. But if a person needs to get away from someone to appreciate them, then I wouldn't call this love. What do you guys think on the matter?
 

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If you ask him to bring your stuff, then you're giving the message that you're done. If the door was still open, you wouldn't ask him to bring your stuff.

You don't know what he was thinking or feeling for the past 10 days. You didn't reach out to him for 10 days, so whatever he was feeling during that time is none of your business. He might be smiling because he's happy, or he might be smiling because he doesn't want to share his feelings with you. You don't know.

(I might be misunderstanding this next part, but) it seems that he asked you how you were doing and you didn't really answer. Maybe if you'd been honest (telling him you feel terrible, you miss him or whatever) the conversation would have gone differently. I don't understand how you can be all civil and polite and not forthcoming, and then criticize him because he's smiling (i.e., civil and polite).

He tells you he feels the same as before. I guess this means he's done with you.

Then you text him with all kinds of polite stuff and thanking him for the good times. This sounds like a goodbye. He replies that he doesn't know how to respond. I wouldn't know either. What is there to say--you're welcome?

He's happy that you're happy with your work, etc. (i.e., your new life without him).

I don't think you did your best, at least not if you wanted him back. You didn't show any vulnerability, only smiles and thanks. You didn't bring up the subject of getting back together; in fact you did the opposite by asking for your stuff back.

He won't be back. You are right to decide to move on. Good luck!
 

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*A little update*

So I did reach out after 10 days of silence.. I asked him to bring my things kindly and he did right away..
He was smiling the whole time, I felt weird, his smile was as if all of this is not serious, or like he was really happy to see me, I couldn't register it. My heart was killing me the whole time. He kept asking me how I'm doing and when I asked back he said "exactly the same as before". So he hasn't missed me or anything.
So I thanked him for the good memories and the non physical gifts he's given me and walked away.
I didn't really answer his question as I usually do, so in the evening I texted him that I've been learning a lot during this time and took responsibility for my own mistakes, without begging or saying sorry again. Just short and to the point. And acknowledged how much I appreciate him and how happy he made me feel.
He replied that he doesn't know how to respond to this and that he was happy to see me smile and that I was happy about my work. And I responded that it's a lot to process, so I wasn't really expecting any immediate response. And that's it.
That was yesterday.
I don't intend to reach out again. Ever. I feel like I've done more than my best.. and it's in his hands now.
Also it feels like if this doesn't make him want to be close to me again, then the care from his side just wasn't enough, or real, at all. I guess I'm moving on, with all the pain, he just doesn't seem to care for me at all.

Maybe time will do its thing.. But if a person needs to get away from someone to appreciate them, then I wouldn't call this love. What do you guys think on the matter?
I actually think you have it right. If you need to convince him to get back with you, or make appeals to him after He decided to break up with you, it'd be empty even if you do get back with him.
Life's too short to be barking up the same old tree. Find someone who treats you better.


If you ask him to bring your stuff, then you're giving the message that you're done. If the door was still open, you wouldn't ask him to bring your stuff.

You don't know what he was thinking or feeling for the past 10 days. You didn't reach out to him for 10 days, so whatever he was feeling during that time is none of your business. He might be smiling because he's happy, or he might be smiling because he doesn't want to share his feelings with you. You don't know.

(I might be misunderstanding this next part, but) it seems that he asked you how you were doing and you didn't really answer. Maybe if you'd been honest (telling him you feel terrible, you miss him or whatever) the conversation would have gone differently. I don't understand how you can be all civil and polite and not forthcoming, and then criticize him because he's smiling (i.e., civil and polite).

He tells you he feels the same as before. I guess this means he's done with you.

Then you text him with all kinds of polite stuff and thanking him for the good times. This sounds like a goodbye. He replies that he doesn't know how to respond. I wouldn't know either. What is there to say--you're welcome?

He's happy that you're happy with your work, etc. (i.e., your new life without him).

I don't think you did your best, at least not if you wanted him back. You didn't show any vulnerability, only smiles and thanks. You didn't bring up the subject of getting back together; in fact you did the opposite by asking for your stuff back.

He won't be back. You are right to decide to move on. Good luck!
He broke up with her after he took a joke too far and she got mad, why is she supposed to grovel for him?
Vulnerability goes both ways, he never made known what his problem was, he just dumped her immediately. The ball's been on his court this whole time just from that alone.

Plus when a person dumps someone, telling them this makes them miserable rarely leads anywhere positive. They don't want to hear it, they feel bad enough that they had to be the bad guy and end it, and just from the start it comes across as guilt tripping. Not the note you want your relationship to be restored on.
 

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Okay, the ball's been in his court and he's done nothing. Case closed. Meanwhile she gave him every indication that she's fine with that. She even asked for her stuff back. Great. Good for her.

But she's telling US that she still held out hope when she "reached out."

I'm not arguing that she should do one thing or another. I just don't understand how she could ask for her stuff back and expect him to see that as an opportunity for him to apologize or express second thoughts or something. If she asks for her stuff back she's telling him she's done.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
If you ask him to bring your stuff, then you're giving the message that you're done. If the door was still open, you wouldn't ask him to bring your stuff.

You don't know what he was thinking or feeling for the past 10 days. You didn't reach out to him for 10 days, so whatever he was feeling during that time is none of your business. He might be smiling because he's happy, or he might be smiling because he doesn't want to share his feelings with you. You don't know.

(I might be misunderstanding this next part, but) it seems that he asked you how you were doing and you didn't really answer. Maybe if you'd been honest (telling him you feel terrible, you miss him or whatever) the conversation would have gone differently. I don't understand how you can be all civil and polite and not forthcoming, and then criticize him because he's smiling (i.e., civil and polite).

He tells you he feels the same as before. I guess this means he's done with you.

Then you text him with all kinds of polite stuff and thanking him for the good times. This sounds like a goodbye. He replies that he doesn't know how to respond. I wouldn't know either. What is there to say--you're welcome?

He's happy that you're happy with your work, etc. (i.e., your new life without him).

I don't think you did your best, at least not if you wanted him back. You didn't show any vulnerability, only smiles and thanks. You didn't bring up the subject of getting back together; in fact you did the opposite by asking for your stuff back.

He won't be back. You are right to decide to move on. Good luck!
I needed my stuff back. And he doesn't act like I ended things. Our final agreement was that in the case of him missing me he'd reach out. Other than that I'd let him have his space. He knows that.
And I wasn't criticizing him for smiling, it was surprising for me. And felt awkward, since he knows how hurt I am. But I don't know a thing about his feelings, besides the fact that he doesn't want us back.
When he asked me how I was I told him there is no simple answer to the question, so he asked me about work. Talking about vulnerability, I've always been open and vulnerable with him. It is one of my strengths, but I don't think that repeating myself and showing how broken I am inside by the break is very appealing or appropriate at the moment. He knows I want us to work things out I don't need to repeat that in every interaction and chase him.
I texted him about my responsibility over the things that went wrong. If this doesn't spell "I know I can fix the mistakes and make things better if we try again." I don't know what does..

Thank you for sharing your insights.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Plus when a person dumps someone, telling them this makes them miserable rarely leads anywhere positive. They don't want to hear it, they feel bad enough that they had to be the bad guy and end it, and just from the start it comes across as guilt tripping. Not the note you want your relationship to be restored on.
So true. And I know the first day we had the break talk I could have convinced him to stay and try to work on things, but it's not the quality of a relationship I want. I don't want a robot. I want a real connection with him, and for him to appreciate it and want it, as much as I do.
Finally I've had a day without tears.. two weeks were long long two weeks. It feels right in my gut. Even though it might have sent the signal of me not being interested, if he wants me, he'll get me. Guys know how to make themselves happy when they know what they want.
 

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@FluffyD

It sounds like it's best that you two parted ways. Enjoy the freedom and take some deep breaths.

I don't think some in this thread understand how Aux-Fe allows an INFJ to let go. If there's one phrase that sums it up it is "They will be better off without me" and most of the time INFJ doesn't realize it but they will be better off too. Fe makes decisions based on the emotions/feelings/ideals of those around the Fe user.

Fe is an INFJs primary judging function and can be quite powerful while being uncontrollable. If the other person says "I'm done" with true emotion and honesty then we believe them and it doesn't feel right to go against it. We don't have a lot of control of how the thoughts/feelings/ideals of others effect us due to having tertiary Ti, (which is a small voice of reason lost in a hurricane of emotion).

I hope this explains how an INFJ can feel sad and hurt while also letting go of someone so readily. It's not that we want to let them go, it's their feelings and our perception that say we should.
 

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@FluffyD

If the other person says "I'm done" with true emotion and honesty then we believe them and it doesn't feel right to go against it.

I hope this explains how an INFJ can feel sad and hurt while also letting go of someone so readily. It's not that we want to let them go, it's their feelings and our perception that say we should.
100% bull's eye.
Also after being needy in my teen years, I've learned from experience nothing comes from clinging and not letting go.
People are selfish enough (usually) to go for what they want, so in my mind if he wanted me he'd be here.

After our last interaction I'm pretty convinced he doesn't give a shit about me. Or whatever care he had for me is burried so deep inside, that it'll probably see the light of day when he dies with it, one day, far day.
He said he hasn't had "enough time to analyze, I've set the gear to sixth and started pursuing my goals full speed and put the rest on hold." As if you can put someone's heart on hold.
That of course is my responsibility. So I'm done pining and hoping.
The saddest thing is that when I move on (is it an INFJ thing..?) I move on forever, and there's nothing that can make my sympathies grow for the same person twice. So in the case of him being late, it'll surely be way too late. And that's the tragedy of it.
 

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I'd give some advice but I'm afraid you're incompatible.
Ok, somehow I'm still thinking about this so let me elaborate. I think you both just don't understand where the other person is coming from and aren't able to effectively express that you have feelings for each other. Hence incompatibility.

His problem is one of self-preservation causing him to turn stone cold. Yet some actions are more meaningful than others: he cried and empathized like crazy. Don't underestimate this. He just was unable to drop his guard in other moments so he went the other way completely, probably panicking over being so vulnerable. If you'd been able to convince him the pros outweigh the cons, he might've changed his mind. But he made this very difficult.

I think you're really trying to see his logic, and you've been kind enough to tell him you appreciate him etc. But your timing for that was wrong, as you already said "I want my stuff". That is The End (unless you fight, hard) and I admire that he was so civil, most guys wouldn't care about your stuff. If he didn't care, he'd be cold and not ask you how you are.
The fact you're pointing to your INFJness shows you don't want to go out of your way to fight. And he's unable to either. So there's 0 progress.

I hesitate to use the word love but extreme defenses will spring up when deep feelings are involved. That's very clear in his case but also look at how you've defended yourself throughout, convinced he should take the lead. If you're both digging in your heels, nothing will happen.

No techniques will help you with this, it really comes down to empathy and understanding, and that driving your actions.
 

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Some things in this thread illustrate that just following the golden rule (do unto others..) is sometimes not feasible for intps. Because there are so many offensive things that people do that don't bother me at all. In all my relationships the other person's emotions are given more regard than mine. Which is entirely appropriate.
 

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Some things in this thread illustrate that just following the golden rule (do unto others..) is sometimes not feasible for intps. Because there are so many offensive things that people do that don't bother me at all. In all my relationships the other person's emotions are given more regard than mine. Which is entirely appropriate.
I really do agree. I think INTP's are just completely used to the entire world being completely unreasonable, so treating people how we're happy to be treated would just isolate and alienate us from society. Our Fe does not allow us to be happy with that...
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Hey.
I tried reaching out once, with a lot of empathy and understanding to him, totally putting my ego aside and trying to reach out to his logical side, the one that loves solving puzzles and problems. It was something like 10 days ago. And his response showed me (through my own personal prism) that he doesn't give a sh*t about me. He said he hasn't had the time to analyze anything or think about us, since he's put the gears to max on following his goals in life and has put Everything Else On Hold. 0 interest in talking to me. Or having me in any way in his life. Not that I've asked, it's just what he showed.
And you are right, he is in self preservation mode. For sure.
I have never had such a difficult break up in my life. Decided to move on and have been on no contact for a little over a week now. Though I still have deep feelings. I have to choose me first now.
I still hope he'd be back, really soon, before the total apathy stage, but honestly don't believe that will happen.
Thank you for stopping by and offering your perspective!
 
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