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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I clash with INTJ's pretty badly because I don't think they see the "big picture" or beyond their own ideas, but goddamnit... I wish I had the ability to just read and understand science like they do. Not to mention my needless contrarianism and stubbornness against any form of certainty. I read science and it's like I don't trust it, and all sorts of questions pop up rather than just learning the information. I feel like I have 75% of that INTJ brilliance in me, but my Perception nature just muddles everything up. So I feel like I have a great self-awareness and sort of life-grounding due to it, but I could probably really be quite good at a lot of things if I were a J.

Still holding out hope that meditation and removing trauma-related after-effects from my experience can help me wield my INTP nature better and put it to use in science, engineering, or where I work now (business). If an INTP can get into his groove, I think he's better at coming up with new ideas and being creative than the J.
 

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Meditation definitely helps.

I think the want to read into things and not take them at face value is what's so great about the INTP nature. But instead of reading for the sake of understanding, read for the sake of application, and then use your notes later for speculation and inconsistencies or whatever play you want to use your information for.

Once I started doing this, I became much better at taking things in without questioning them. It made me feel stupid. But at least I got the information down and was able to play with the information I had later on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That makes total sense, and is what I'm going through now. It's been hard at work where people younger than me are in higher positions, and where I'm regarded as the smartest person in my department but "needing focus." I almost got fired but they literally are keeping me around because they think I'm worth investing in if they can get my focus on track, so I was demoted to "filing boy" (without a pay decrease).

In any case, one aspect of why I question everything was because as a kid I was good at catching thing and creating new ideas. So my brain is wired to look for that over everything else. Look for little things I can snap up to show I'm smart, rather than simply understand and do a job which is much, much more important. Socially I need to take people at face value too, rather than try to get into the subtleties of their thought, context, and motivations.
 

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That makes total sense, and is what I'm going through now. It's been hard at work where people younger than me are in higher positions, and where I'm regarded as the smartest person in my department but "needing focus." I almost got fired but they literally are keeping me around because they think I'm worth investing in if they can get my focus on track, so I was demoted to "filing boy" (without a pay decrease).
Personally, that sounds like a terrible way to try to motivate you. You are a bigger person than I if it has not caused even a small amount of loathing. If I'm not being challenged I tend to lose focus, so demoting me would probably be detrimental to my motivation.

I completely get your frustration though, I know if I actually applied myself I could be very successful. I have always been told by people I am very smart, I have heard it even more recently in the last two years. Of course I don't believe that and carry an overall feeling of dissatisfaction.

I have many fields of interest that I mastered quickly, if I had actually picked one to apply myself to I would have excelled.

That being said, 25 is still relatively young and I am slowly working towards making up for this.
 

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Nope. Contrary to popular opinion, The J Way is not the Only Way.

Try to understand that Ps are not just broken Js (as is common consensus among Js). You have different strengths and different ways of doing things. Just because almost all of modern society is configured to make life as easy as possible for J types doesn't mean that their way is the best, one and only true way of doing things.

Personally, I was smarter than the few INTJs I encountered in school, so I don't really comprehend all this dick-slobbering over their strengths or way of doing things that I encounter even on INTP forums for some reason. They had a different way of doing things that was more suited to, well, the way their STJ counterparts do things. It makes sense to me; I always got along with ISTPs in school like I was one of them, just more abstract and sometimes had to make things a little simpler or hide my N habits from them, whereas to SJs I was and still am a complete alien.

but I could probably really be quite good at a lot of things if I were a J.
Well, you can really be quite good at a lot of things as a P.

Anyway, if the problem is that you are encountering INTJs who are smarter than you, then perhaps that's all there is to it. Get rid of this "have 75% of that INTJ brilliance in you" — being a P doesn't mean you have less potential than them.

Still holding out hope that [...] removing trauma-related after-effects from my experience can help me wield my INTP nature better
How will you remove the trauma-related after-effects?
 

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^*sniffle*

Just wanted to say that my boss is INTP. He has some traits that are very helpful to me personally and those are the traits that I'll probably never manage to develop, so our differences are pretty useful to me:
- Because he sees the bigger picture, he helps me get back on track when I dive too deeply into the details (which happens).
- He is very observant, which makes him good at playing his staff to their strengths and reading between the lines (which I suck at).
- He is 'too political' imo (but maybe most people are - I'm not a fan of 'playing the game'), but it is a perfect fit for a manager role in the company we work for. He protects and backs up his people.
- We do sometimes have communication issues because he can seem a bit vague to me - I fix this by 'translating' what he says and ask him if I understood correctly. It works really well. And he does listen and is generally easygoing.
- He can have a delightfully evil humor. It's a bit bizarre, but amusing. He can come across as quite paranoid at times and we have had conflict in regards to this on a couple of occasions. I'd guess that this is enneagram related though.

Also, keep in mind that intelligence is a relative term. There will always be people who are percieved as smarter or dumber than you, no matter whether true or not.
There are also many different types of intelligence and I don't think that anyone scores as the number one in of all of them.
 

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Just wanted to say that my boss is INTP. He has some traits that are very helpful to me personally and those are the traits that I'll probably never manage to develop [...]

He can have a delightfully evil humor. It's a bit bizarre, but amusing. He can come across as quite paranoid at times and we have had conflict in regards to this on a couple of occasions. I'd guess that this is enneagram related though.
What traits are those? What enneagram type is he?
 

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What traits are those? What enneagram type is he?
Paranoia? For example,
- He is very uncomfortable with me communicating with managers above him. I think that is a bit silly. Last time I did it he got really upset, but it ended up being a very good thing for him and me, so I think that he reassessed after that. But I could tell that he was seriously contemplating the possibility that I was backstabbing him. I did apologize profusely and told him that I'm not always a very smooth and smart person. He calmed down after that, and told me that it wasn't a big deal.
- He can also seem unwilling to share all the info he has (we work in R&D so info and data is everything). I do think that he considers info the same a power and he is viewing work as a poker game in a way and he wants to have the upper hand.
- He has also said that he prefers to sit hidden away in a corner during meetings so that he can observe other participant's behaviors.

Enneagram. Well, an unhealthy 6w5 can be paranoid. I'd say that he'd fit the 6w5 profile fairly well, but I honestly don't type people.
He has told me that he is INTP, and I have no reason to doubt that.

Edited to add, the traits that are good for me are the first two bullets in prev post.
 

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Hey, INTJ aren't all like this... We aren't - and we don't pretend to be - all perfect and flawless and better at everything... and why all this competition, people? Look, I have a INTP friend who is better than me in... guess what, logic. And my INTP sister sometimes says she envies my willpower, lack of procrastination, intelligence, but, wow, if she knew how much I procrastinate when she's not looking, or how much I just want to collapse in my bed and do nothing sometimes, or how I know I'm not that smart in so many things...

Don't be deceived by the "INTJ look". We are just people - and man, it's hard for common people to really live up to the "INTJ look". I bet most of us don't suceed in that.

What's the problem in just being yourself, developing your own strenghts, instead of focusing always in what's missing, that other people seem to have? There's no reason to be jealous of any other type. They are just human types. Where you see a flaw in yourself, they might have a quality, but they'll have a flaw where you have qualities too. The point in frustration, I usually observe, is what you can do being just and precisely yourself, but are not doing because you're too busy trying to adapt to other's ideals (or by laziness, don't know, it happens with me sometimes, hehe).

I don't know about big pictures and stuff like that, but you INTP people are perfect as hell - no, heaven, I mean - when you want to be.
 

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No one cares about how smart and creative you are if you don't get shit done. And regardless of what you think, most people are not just "good" at things. Everyone hits a point where they have to put in a considerable amount of work to learn something.

Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, but you just sound like a weakling who wants thing to come easily.
 

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I have three INTJ's in my family and I do not have any jealousy about them.
the two INTP's (me and my dad) do just as well in life and have made as many better decisions in life.
So no advantage to INTJ over INTP here.
 

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Nope. Contrary to popular opinion, The J Way is not the Only Way.

Try to understand that Ps are not just broken Js (as is common consensus among Js).
That's total bullshit. One of my best friends is an INTP and I greatly admire the clarity of his analyses. He can sum up things in a really precise way that Ni can never achieve. I'll waffle endlessly and he'll sum it up for me in one neat sentence.

Also, the learning style that the OP desribed isn't necessarily confined to INTPs. I have very similar problems. I have to switch my Te on consciously to take in facts. If I let Ni run wild it questions everything and gets distracted. I can easily drift from thinking about a grammar problem on to epistemology, physics, psychology, religion, the universe etc.
The only difference is that I am more motivated by exams or practical tasks that are imposed on me from the outside (e.g. boss demanding a solution etc.). I also don't see "true understanding" or "pure interest" and exams as mutually exlusive.

The 4 (+maybe a 5th) INTPs I know in real life all earn more money than me and pursue their career plans with a dogged, if very quiet, determination. Me, I'm not even motivated enough by money, status, material security etc. to take part in the rat race at all.
 

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May be you should forget wanting to become INTJ, and become ENTP (Just have to transform this I in E). You can become arrogant as an INTJ, but without being really arrogant, or you don't know, you're playing, always, never mind the sense of that game :D. But I disagree with 'Arrogant' as main trait for INTJ. My best friend is INTj and is far from this. He might look arrogant, but he's often damn right. When I see him acting like that, I know it's because people are doing wrong. :D
 

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That's total bullshit. One of my best friends is an INTP and I greatly admire the clarity of his analyses.
Well, I didn't say it was true for 100% of all Js. But if you spend a few minutes reading internet MBTI forums for INTJs opinions about INTPs, you will find it is very often the case. TJs like you who claim to even have any respect at all for INTPs are a minority.
 

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Well, I didn't say it was true for 100% of all Js. But if you spend a few minutes reading internet MBTI forums for INTJs opinions about INTPs, you will find it is very often the case. TJs like you who claim to even have any respect at all for INTPs are a minority.
This is why I don't read often read those threads anymore.
Sometimes there are misunderstandings between INTPs and INTJs because they work from different assumptions and aren't aware that they are talking at cross purposes, but I've never had a heated debate or any kind of dick-waving contest with an INTP in real life.
 

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INTP:Ti>Ne>Si / Ni>Te>Fi:INTJ

Why are you trying to compare to cognitive type that have nothing into common, other than the 'rational type' ? They're for me far closer of ENTP for instance..
 
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