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Okay, so awhile ago I made a funny little post about INTP bathroom habits (like not drying hands) which got a pretty good response. Well here is an update that might gross you out. There was an article in our local paper about hand washing. Turns out to get all the germs off one's hands, literally drying one's hands on paper or a towel is required. It is not enough to air dry them or stick them under an "airblade" or blower. The article didn't mention people who "armpit" dry them or wipe them on their jeans. I'm assuming the results would be similar though. Since reading the article, I have begun to change my ways, albeit slowly. The thought of washing my hands thoroughly and still needing to wipe them on a towel to get all the germies off is disconcerting, but it is what it is. Perhaps this way I'll avoid that nasty winter cold I always get.
 

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That's what jeans are for. They're much more convenient than stumbling about (usually bombed) trying to find a dryer or some paper towels. Jeans will, on the other hand, always be there for you.
 

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The environmentalists are going to have a fit about this. However, I've always wondered how much atom smashing needs to go on to power those stupid blowers.

I'm generally so over-caffeinated at work that I'm using Ye Olde Can like every 20 minutes it seems. I probably only wash every third time. I generally don't touch my pee pee when I wee wee and even if I did, why does everyone assume their genitals to be so filth ridden? Peoples' asses have less germs on them than there faces and hands. If anything we should wash before we go, if you're gonna touch anything of your own that is. Obviously with ladies it maybe a bit of a different story.
 

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The gunk on your hands and face is relatively harmless or is already on your face doing it's damage. Now, the stuff that comes out of your butt, lotta ways that can be a vector for disease.
Urine is sterile but smells bad. If you're not circumcised then you've got potential smegma to deal with and if you are circumcised then you don't have a lot of incentive to clean that very well anyway. Provided that you are actually able to keep from stinking and also don't pee on your hands then washing them is not so much something connected to going number one so much as it is a convenient time to wash them.

As you know you've got plenty of nasty crap on your hands just from going about your daily business and presumably you've put two and two together to realize that your hands are also how that stuff gets on your face. Now everything you can keep away from your mucus membranes (mouth, eyes, nose) is one fewer chance at catching that cold or whatever happens to be going around.

I don't really need this to tell me to dry my hands off though; I live in a cold dry climate so if I go outside with damp hands my skin will end up all cracked and nasty.

*And no, smearing what's on your hands into your eyes is not a good way to exercise your immune system. You've got cells crawling around on the surface of your skin that pick up a little bit of everything you touch and then crawl in and tell stuff in your lymph nodes about it- so rubbing your hands on your elbows or somewhere that won't touch the rest of you before you wash might be alright.
 

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The gunk on your hands and face is relatively harmless or is already on your face doing it's damage. Now, the stuff that comes out of your butt, lotta ways that can be a vector for disease.
Urine is sterile but smells bad. If you're not circumcised then you've got potential smegma to deal with and if you are circumcised then you don't have a lot of incentive to clean that very well anyway. Provided that you are actually able to keep from stinking and also don't pee on your hands then washing them is not so much something connected to going number one so much as it is a convenient time to wash them.

As you know you've got plenty of nasty crap on your hands just from going about your daily business and presumably you've put two and two together to realize that your hands are also how that stuff gets on your face. Now everything you can keep away from your mucus membranes (mouth, eyes, nose) is one fewer chance at catching that cold or whatever happens to be going around.

I don't really need this to tell me to dry my hands off though; I live in a cold dry climate so if I go outside with damp hands my skin will end up all cracked and nasty.

*And no, smearing what's on your hands into your eyes is not a good way to exercise your immune system. You've got cells crawling around on the surface of your skin that pick up a little bit of everything you touch and then crawl in and tell stuff in your lymph nodes about it- so rubbing your hands on your elbows or somewhere that won't touch the rest of you before you wash might be alright.
 

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I think people are a little too paranoid about germs. I don't remember the exact numbers from my biology class, but something over 95% of microbes in the environment are completely harmless. You have many more bacterial cells in your body than you have your own cells. Wiping your hands with a paper towel is appropriate if you're sick/weakened or if you work in certain industries (like food and health care), but for general practice I think shaking your hands and wiping them on your jeans is okay. I don't think excessive use of sanitizers is a good thing, either. I wonder if it is analogous to the old days when people used to deal with predators by driving them near extinction.
 

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I always wash my hands and hate them being wet... if there are paper towels and an air dryer, I will take the paper first because it's faster. If I have no other option I will blow dry them mostly and then wipe the rest on my pants.
 

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I think people are a little too paranoid about germs. I don't remember the exact numbers from my biology class, but something over 95% of microbes in the environment are completely harmless. You have many more bacterial cells in your body than you have your own cells. Wiping your hands with a paper towel is appropriate if you're sick/weakened or if you work in certain industries (like food and health care), but for general practice I think shaking your hands and wiping them on your jeans is okay. I don't think excessive use of sanitizers is a good thing, either. I wonder if it is analogous to the old days when people used to deal with predators by driving them near extinction.
Exactly. OCD and being INTP are two different things. Please don't confuse the two. Not all NTs are OCDs.

I love germs. I live in germs. They make me stronger. Isn't that more logical? If it can't kill you, it will make you stronger.


I can't believe this nonsense.
 

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^^ Exactly, eat more yogurt. The probiotics in there will keep your white count up higher. *Knocks on wood* I haven't been sick in like 2 years since I started having two yogurts a day and stopped washing my hands so frequently. I'm assuming more white blood cells, plus having them kill more stuff I expose myself too has resulted in me having a powerful bear of an immune system.
 

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^^ Exactly, eat more yogurt. The probiotics in there will keep your white count up higher. *Knocks on wood* I haven't been sick in like 2 years since I started having two yogurts a day and stopped washing my hands so frequently. I'm assuming more white blood cells, plus having them kill more stuff I expose myself too has resulted in me having a powerful bear of an immune system.
Adding a daily dose of yogurt into my diet has done wonders for my stomach. I've never been one to get sick more often than once in a blue moon, but I frequently used to have stomach/bowel problems. Now for the past 8 months or so things have been peachy.
 

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I think people are a little too paranoid about germs. I don't remember the exact numbers from my biology class, but something over 95% of microbes in the environment are completely harmless. You have many more bacterial cells in your body than you have your own cells. Wiping your hands with a paper towel is appropriate if you're sick/weakened or if you work in certain industries (like food and health care), but for general practice I think shaking your hands and wiping them on your jeans is okay. I don't think excessive use of sanitizers is a good thing, either. I wonder if it is analogous to the old days when people used to deal with predators by driving them near extinction.
No, it's different enough that any comparison you tried to form would have the wolves naturally being driven out if there were too many sheep and other passive type things but booming when the grazers were all dead. When you take antibiotics for minor ailments you want to make sure they're not strong enough to disrupt the typical bacteria you've got in your system because they just grow up to whatever saturation point and then the annoying or harmful stuff can't get a foothold. Personally I'm pretty sure I get sits if I take enough antibiotics to knock the populations down but not really clear the slate (like 1 to 4 days of this weak Septra pill.)

The vast majority of microbes are very reliant on being in wet and warm places. It's not really convenient to strip away our body temperature but if you let whatever surface you contaminated dry out and cool down you are not very likely to go giving people food poisoning or butt-herpes. And I mean REALLY not likely, it's just not going to happen. Drying things off is not like trying to chemically kill pathogens- escaping the influence of a chemical just requires messing up the little section of some protein that it attaches to so that it won't attach anymore, which is basically a very versatile out and easy to compensate for anything negative side effects later. Escaping drying out is a rather different story because if there was an easy out something probably would have found it by now after the whole billions of years thing or at the very least it's not going to figure it out in a measly few years all of a sudden starting now. The actual ways life has found around it are rather laborious efforts that involve a lot of resource investment or other non-negatable setbacks- so in simple terms they're slowed down so much that they cease to be a threat.

It's similar to how pasteurizing milk never created any super bugs. Surviving in boiling liquid just isn't something that can reasonably be pulled off by anything that thrives in it at the normal temperature 100 degrees cooler than that.

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Having a "beefed up" immune system won't prevent you from getting sick. Each of your white blood cells (T and B cells anyway) take a few select genes, scramble up the code for the part that sticks out and attaches to foreign things in order to produce variety, matures in particular organs*, then goes out in the blood stream and won't "activate" until a certain threshold is breached. Like if they have fifty of their particular protein on their surface they need a fair number of them to be filled with what they'll eventually kill.

*Maturing is kind of like a waiting period. If they react strongly to anything during that time it was almost definitely something your own body makes or something neutral that wouldn't be useful to fight.

Each cell only has just the one sequence and you have very, very few duplicates per sequence. You do genuinely have to become infected with something to set any of them off. And then once they are set off? They grow into an army but slower than they actually could- you don't want false alarms or broken mechanisms that end up in cancerous growth of these things. After the infection is dealt with most of them die but a few live on.

Well, they alter their sequence a little bit more and try to find things that are an even better match to what they fought but the point is that a few live and they are both on a lighter trigger for that infection you dealt with and this time they will actually grow into an army much, much faster, particularly for the simple to understand reason of "we know these effectively kill those things now."


There is simply no "making it stronger" with this system. If you do anything to stop infections faster you either end up with something like lupis or leukemia. Now if you've actually got an immune system that's weakened from being overstressed or that then sure, it could do better, but if you were overall in good health then taking this vitamin or eating that food is not going to give you any kind of "boost."

Much better is simply keeping your fingers the fuck out of your eyes, or washing and drying your hands before you go fishing some eyelash or grain of sand out of them. Nose and mouth too but to be honest the less frequent hand washing is still probably good enough to prevent contamination from your hands infecting you through those two.

Edit: though yogurt will definitely help with stomach annoyances, mainly for the "not letting other bacteria get a foothold" situation I explained above.
 

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^ I'd heard that since it's bacteria in yogurt, it triggers an immune system response.

"LAB are thought to have several presumably beneficial effects on immune function. They may protect against pathogens by means of competitive inhibition (i.e., by competing for growth) and there is evidence to suggest that they may improve immune function by increasing the number of IgA-producing plasma cells, increasing or improving phagocytosis as well as increasing the proportion of T lymphocytes and Natural Killer cells.[20][21]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotic#Improving_immune_function_and_preventing_infections

Yeah, I know it's wiki but there are two reliable sources backing the claim.
 

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^ I'd heard that since it's bacteria in yogurt, it triggers an immune system response.

"LAB are thought to have several presumably beneficial effects on immune function. They may protect against pathogens by means of competitive inhibition (i.e., by competing for growth) and there is evidence to suggest that they may improve immune function by increasing the number of IgA-producing plasma cells, increasing or improving phagocytosis as well as increasing the proportion of T lymphocytes and Natural Killer cells.[20][21]"

Probiotic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, I know it's wiki but there are two reliable sources backing the claim.
Do you know enough about what those cells are to make the distinction as to whether they improve an already healthy immune system or if they just help to bring a poor one up to better function?
Right. As I said before you can't make your immune system so good that it stops you getting sick in the first place. Normal people are healthy enough to have barriers like their skin keep a good majority of things out and have their mucus membranes catch the next smaller magnitude worth of stuff. Being in good health makes those two things more effective but having more T lymphocytes is not going to do shit to prevent you getting sick and natural killer cells are sort of like street sweepers that fling popped balloons and sticks out of the gutters.

Or in other words that's a different kind of improvement. The context here came from the earlier "I ate yogurt so now my immune system is so good I don't get sick" claim and that article most assuredly does not say that yogurt will do that.
 

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Haha, I can so relate to this thread. My cousin has always teased me for never drying my hands off. I never even noticed I didn't until she pointed it out. -_-" I guess I'm too impatient. I hate going to the bathroom while doing something. I feel like somebody's gonna steal my spot. I sounded like Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory there.... I have a lot of awkward sentences in this paragraph. It's bugging me. I'm too lazy to fix it. Just post it already, dammit!
 

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Do you know enough about what those cells are to make the distinction as to whether they improve an already healthy immune system or if they just help to bring a poor one up to better function?
Right. As I said before you can't make your immune system so good that it stops you getting sick in the first place. Normal people are healthy enough to have barriers like their skin keep a good majority of things out and have their mucus membranes catch the next smaller magnitude worth of stuff. Being in good health makes those two things more effective but having more T lymphocytes is not going to do shit to prevent you getting sick and natural killer cells are sort of like street sweepers that fling popped balloons and sticks out of the gutters.

Or in other words that's a different kind of improvement. The context here came from the earlier "I ate yogurt so now my immune system is so good I don't get sick" claim and that article most assuredly does not say that yogurt will do that.
Nope, I'm kind of lazy when it comes to understanding abstruse concepts. I prefer to have them in the form of a cartoon like this:


Or in the form of an easily understandable metaphor, like one they would use on Star Trek so that the one dumb character, who's job is to make sure the audience understands what's going on, get's his easy explanation for something overly convoluted or abstruse.
 

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It was a rhetorical question and i proceeded as if you'd already said no, then gave you some a simple metaphor for NK cells.

Aaaaaand I haven't said anything about how B and T lymphocytes works so I might as well. B lymphocytes make antibodies. In their early life these are the thing that sticks out of them and picks up foreign stuff. After they have grabbed something they need to then find a T lymphocyte with a holder bit that will bind to some other part of the thing that was picked up. To tell this apart from just binding to it floating about they have a few other things sticking out that just connect to each other and really make the thing sit right in the T-hole much longer than it usually would.

With that the T lymphocytes activate and basically sound some alarms. A lot of other cells are set in motion.
Once the B lymphocyte has grown into an army the cells modify their antibody a bit so that the part that connected them to the cell isn't there and they float out into the body.

These are the main players but you've got other things like the obnoxious mast cells. Those ones have numerous antibodies from old B cells sticking out of them and when they breach some threshold they get your body doing a lot of more recognizable things like swelling up, flooding your nose with mucus, sneezing, and all that fun allergy crap.

Allergy shots don't actually do anything to change up those mast cells though. Instead they encourage some of your B lymphocytes to convert into the type that sends off free floating antibodies so that they will bind to the pollen or whatnot and block the part that things on the mast cells would have bound to.
 

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I just dry them on my jeans. The air things are way too loud, and then they echo in the bathroom and get even louder.. bleh
 
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