Personality Cafe banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone. First of all, I'm new here and an INTP (as you can see in my name) so let me provide you a brief introduction.

I'm a gay/bisexual (whatever lol) 26 year old man, fairly attractive, well educated, not too socially awkward and generally considered a very nice guy with a good aura (so I've been told anyway). I first learnt about personality theory about 3-4 years ago near the end of my 'great depression' as I like to call it and was floored by the accuracy of the INTP description, it was mind blowing actually, since I often wondered what was wrong with me and why my thoughts were so...'unique' lol. Overall, I believe it helped me mature at a much faster rate had I not discovered it. So anyway...onto my story.

I met a guy online (call him Chris) about 4-5 years ago, who attended my university (different degrees though) and we got along fairly well; at best I would have called us acquaintances at the time. I did find him a bit off putting at times but nothing to affect our relationship in any significant way. After a couple years we decided to meet and since then we went out a few times as platonic friends. Being around him and talking to him on the phone, I found my interest piquing more and more, however, his quirky ways and the long periods of little to no contact between us kept me at bay. I'm typically really good at reading people especially people that I know well but I could not for the life of me interpret what was going on his head. I figured that he did have some interest in me as well but nothing ever came out of it and we both had our share of failed relationships over the years. Near the end of each of my relationships I would always feel a strong desire to be with Chris but I always ignored it. He also began to frequently hint at his desire to be with me, sometimes out right stating it but I didn't take him seriously due to it often being so random and his lack of expression and inability to flirt (lol) was confusing to me.

About 2.5 years ago I got burnt out from the drama with my ex and vowed to myself to not go into another relationship if it wasn't with Chris (at that point we were talking more frequently and the spark was clearly there). I decided to finally tell him how I felt about him, we gave dating a try and soon after we became official. It was easily the most intense (both ups and downs) relationship as we got along so well and so easily. We spoke on the phone every night (which I generally hate) and I found myself becoming obsessed with him as my attraction became so strong (I didn't let it affect us though) so quickly. As we got further along in the relationship however, his lack of affection started to get to me and we discussed it after I got upset about it one night. He basically said that that was just how he was and how it didn't mean anything. Some time after I told him explicitly how I felt about him and that I loved him (I think my INTP wires got fried at some point in our relationship lol) and that I needed to get it off my chest. I didn't expect him to say it back and was fine with that however he did some days after, very randomly too. Needless to say, it did make me incredibly glad that he did (I apologize for the length of this story so far).

Fast forward about 6 months into the relationship, I had the feeling that something was off for the first time and decided to check his phone one night only to find incriminating photos (I had no intention of going further than that at the time). This led me to check his messages where he admitted in his first conversation that he cheated (by kissing, no sex) and his intention was to break up with me. He even tried to hook up with the guy with whom he had the conversation but for whatever reason the guy didn't answer his phone when the time came. I asked him if he had ever cheated on me the next morning (he slept by me overnight) and he denied it until I recalled his entire conversation to him after which his response was that since I already knew he had no need to explain any further (disrespectful much?). Simply shocked at Chris' response, the only thing I could do was stay silent. I dropped him off at the usual spot and went to class without saying another word. A few hours after I believe the reality of the situation set in and he attempted to apologize but I ignored him...for about three days. He seemed somewhat frantic at losing our relationship and continued to apologize, told me that I was the most perfect guy for him. I was skeptical naturally, but more so deeply hurt to the point of tears. Anyway, we did work on repairing our relationship for the next few weeks when he suddenly decided that he didn't want to be gay anymore and couldn't accept himself. Again, I was incredibly hurt but we did agree to be friends. After one too many insensitive acts by Chris, I could not deal with it anymore and told him on his birthday (we were heading out to eat with friends) that we would no longer remain in communication. I could have seen the shock and sadness in his face but the pain was just unreal and I could not take it anymore. I cut him off completely and he continued to beg for us to remain friends, always telling me how special I was to him. After some time he stopped and I found out that he now had a girlfriend.

Up to today, two years later, we spoke very rarely (all him initiating, usually asking us to go back to being friends) but I was always very curt and sometimes flat out mean to him even though deep down I wished things were different. Not a single day has gone by where I didn't think of him or what happened between us (I've accepted that and consider it part of routine daily life now). Recently, to my surprise, I received a message from him asking me if I'd ever be willing to take him back. He told me how many changes and experiences he has had in life since our break up and that he was now comfortable with himself and ready to be with me. He kept reiterating that I was the perfect guy for him and he doesn't see it making sense searching elsewhere. My question is this, why after all this time would he just come back into my life like that with such grand intentions? I can't shake the feeling that it is just him being selfish and self centered again. Why would he just come back and try to undo all the hard work I put into forgetting him (unsuccessfully)? I'm not even single at the moment but I won't lie, I'm so confused right now. While I do consider him a soul-mate for lack of a better term, I can't help but wonder if to continue to cut my losses for good. Any advice? I can't go to my friends about how I really feel about this situation so that's why I'm here.

Again, sorry for the giant wall of text. TLDR - INTP (me) fell in love with INTJ, he broke my heart, I cut him off completely, he continuously begged for me to stay in his life as a friend, I refused to for two years now, he out of nowhere asks me to now consider going back into a relationship with him, me = ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,911 Posts
Hmm. Nothing in the story for sure points me towards the conclusion that he's INTJ. I may be aloof to acquaintances, but not to people close to me unless I'm really just terribly busy. In which case I'd let people know I'm retreating and when they can expect to interact with me again. Regardless of what he is...Don't take him back! You obviously have a decent amount of self-esteem and can find someone else. Out of all the people living on this planet, why go back to someone you've already given a chance and who blew it by CHEATING on you? Cheating is never acceptable, and how he went about it after you found out just makes him seem like a callous manipulator. Who's to say he won't do it again? Don't waste your time, that's my 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I'm 100% sure he is INTJ, I have quite a few of them as close friends (very good people) so I know how it is when an INTJ truly cares for you. My aunt is one as well and she is one of the best people I know and the only one I'd ever consider telling about my situation (I'm not open about it). It only took 20+ years but now she is actually returning/accepting my hugs lol.

My problem with this situation is no matter how hard I try to logic away my feelings, they just won't die and I can't get to control them at all. I will take your advice and continue to stay away. While I believe it's possible that he may genuinely be sorry about what happened, it's probably best (and safer) to pretend that that will never be the case...sigh.

Also, it seems like only INTJs have the ability to get under my skin (good and bad) and directly influence my feelings or actions lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,354 Posts
I'm 100% sure he is INTJ, I have quite a few of them as close friends (very good people) so I know how it is when an INTJ truly cares for you. My aunt is one as well and she is one of the best people I know and the only one I'd ever consider telling about my situation (I'm not open about it). It only took 20+ years but now she is actually returning/accepting my hugs lol.

My problem with this situation is no matter how hard I try to logic away my feelings, they just won't die and I can't get to control them at all. I will take your advice and continue to stay away. While I believe it's possible that he may genuinely be sorry about what happened, it's probably best (and safer) to pretend that that will never be the case...sigh.

Also, it seems like only INTJs have the ability to get under my skin (good and bad) and directly influence my feelings or actions lol.
As someone who tries to understand and make a logical explanation, you're in a muddle emotionally because this guy hasn't made sense to you. And so you don't feel safe, and that lack of safety makes a sort of adrenaline rush inside you whenever you think about this guy. He is probably the largest emotional high water mark inside your soul so far in your life, but that doesn't mean he is the healthiest...more like a caveman engaged in a battle to overcome the biggest grisly bear, than anything productive. It's effectively emotional abuse from where you are, because your locus of emotional control is outside yourself and tangled up with the behaviour of an unstable guy who is busy putting himself first in his life.

If if you want emotional highs and lows and rollercoaster, then go back, but don't expect him to change, nor expect him to accept you changing,..I don't advise doing this. And I don't think he is mature nor loving towards you, in any self sacrificial way.

If you want to heal your feelings I'd suggest you take up something else which is emotionally demanding, whatever that might be, but which is safe emotionally...and has an adrenaline rush. Sky diving? Going on stage? Travelling? Volunteer work with alcoholics? Something you feel passionate about, anyway.

Trying to make sense of this kind of treatment is never easy...and part of the damage is that you end up formed into a person whom you are not, and end up super sensitive to the nuances of the other... Those skills at reading people can be useful way down the line, but the damage to trust and inner self is immeasurable... I found hope in the story of the way they treated Jesus in Johns gospel, actually.

But my story isn't the same as yours...so I don't know if my advice is any good to you. If not then ignore it, please. I will pray for you. /2 cents
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
803 Posts
I think because of your past together that you'd be super-paranoid with him if you ever got back together. Relationships with that element where you don't really trust one another are pretty ugh. ;P Intensity and connection are memorable, but everyday getting-along and coziness and working-togetherness and trust are the ingredients for a relationship worth getting into. My 2 cents...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Sooooo it's 2019 now and he still pretty much has been the only one keeping in contact with me (99% of the time). I have worked long and hard at forgiving him and moving on, in the process I have been warmer and more myself in our communication.
Last month was the first time we hung out after he asked a million times and I declined. It went surprisingly well, the feelings are still there but I'm in much more control of them now. Since we hung out...he has become somewhat clingy and expressive towards me (complete opposite to how he was years ago) and it was a bit jarring honestly since he still has a gf and I just don't think I want to risk going back to that place (Super Ti mental block lol) anyway.

Is this behaviour normal for INTJ? Realising what was lost and going all out? He recently sent me a LONG message expressing his feelings for me, mentioning that he has never had a connection like we had but asked me not to respond so I didn't...
As fellow INTJs what are your thoughts? Have you ever persistently chased someone for so long?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
Sooooo it's 2019 now and he still pretty much has been the only one keeping in contact with me (99% of the time). I have worked long and hard at forgiving him and moving on, in the process I have been warmer and more myself in our communication.
Last month was the first time we hung out after he asked a million times and I declined. It went surprisingly well, the feelings are still there but I'm in much more control of them now. Since we hung out...he has become somewhat clingy and expressive towards me (complete opposite to how he was years ago) and it was a bit jarring honestly since he still has a gf and I just don't think I want to risk going back to that place (Super Ti mental block lol) anyway.

Is this behaviour normal for INTJ? Realising what was lost and going all out? He recently sent me a LONG message expressing his feelings for me, mentioning that he has never had a connection like we had but asked me not to respond so I didn't...
As fellow INTJs what are your thoughts? Have you ever persistently chased someone for so long?

Does it matter so much whether that behaviour is normal for INTJ? It seems to me that the nature of the questions you face is far more fundamental and serious.

Here's my 2c: as you grow out of your so-called personality type (as all of us have to) and as your ex does the same (in other words, as you continue to mature), you may notice that the older and wiser you get, the more you tend to forgive people.

The funny thing is that - or at least so it seems to me - this is not so much because you become more emotional, less INTP/J/whatever. It is simply what has to rationally follow from a series of real-life observations of people's (usually including yourself's) capacity to improve and outgrow past limitations, mental obstacles, bad habits, obsessions, etc.

You don't foolishly become more hopeful of such change, only to be confronted by the pain of disappointment upon realising that the hoped-for change hasn't yet come. No.

But you are far more prepared to accept the possibility of such disappointment, even repeatedly so, and sometimes you are crafty enough to find ways to continue with a relationship whilst navigating through such disappointments.

Perhaps you have re-arranged your priorities and what in the past towered over everything else as an eternally unforgivable transgression, now it's easily forgiven as an inescapably human error and maybe as even a necessity for growth.

In my 20s, and in textbook INTJ matter-of-factness and lack of sugar-coating as some would say, I would have told you to forget about him and get on with your life.

But I'm not in my 20s anymore. Two more decades have passed since I was there. I have changed and I have seen other people change. I wish I had been willing to consider this (and let those considerations at least partly inform my actions) when I was in my 20s. But that'd be wishing the impossible. A fool's act.

Some time ago I read a new translation of Dante's Divine Comedy. That's the guy who 700 years ago wrote a book about his travels to Hell, through Purgatory and on to Paradise, guided by the spirit of the Roman poet who was by then already ancient (and therefore wiser than Dante). I loved the translation of the famous scene when the pair encounter the gates of Hell, with the infamous inscription "Abandon all hope, you who enter here" etc.
In the new translation, the inscription/warning reads :

FROM NOW ON, EVERY DAY FEELS LIKE YOUR LAST

FOREVER. LET THAT BE YOUR GREATEST FEAR.

YOUR FUTURE NOW IS TO REGRET THE PAST.

FORGET YOUR HOPES. THEY WERE WHAT BROUGHT YOU HERE.

So Hell warns the dead that its nature, and what they should expect from now on, is not so much fires, demons and physical torture, even though it of course offers plenty of those, for ever. It's regrets about the past.

Yeah... the old boy sure knew what he was talking about...

Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,973 Posts
Is this behaviour normal for INTJ?
i'd sure like to think it's not normal for me. i've never been in that situation though. my breakups have all been pretty definitive and they all came from a much simpler place.

Have you ever persistently chased someone for so long?
the only times i've ever 'chased' anyone was from within a relationship, when i was trying really hard to get them to work with me on existing problems. to be honest, he sounds to me a little like someone who just always wants to have a secondary in his back pocket. he's got a gf now but he's giving you the hardcore treatment, which makes me wonder whether the gf is now just occupying the position you used hold in back in the day. and he's trying to talk you into the backup position those other contacts of him used to hold.

i could be totally wrong, naturally. but if i blind myself to the whole gay/bi/confused side of things and assume that all of the people involved are working within a monogamy framework (or thinking they are), then that's what it sounds like to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,915 Posts
Read up on introverted/covert/vulnerable narcissists and see if any of those descriptions match. They tend to keep a stable of sexual contacts and may rotate through them. Like to hear compliments but don’t give them. Make you feel very special at first, then treat you like you don’t matter, then get desperate if they lose you.

It’s just a suggestion; I don’t know nearly enough of the story. But some details ring a bell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
One thing is for sure... You can't trust him. Right? Then why bother?
You need to see and check it out clearly over your past on the time you spent together, you need to check what were his real intentions all the time. Was he manipulating you or the situation? And in this checking, see his actions, whatever actions he did to you, dont see his behaviour, dont see his words and presentation.. because behaviour can be faked, words and presentation can be faked, overall scenes can be manipulated and twisted.... but his actions will tell you the real truth about him.
And then you can decide, whether his intentions are pure or not. And after that its your choice whether you want to continue it with him or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Read up on introverted/covert/vulnerable narcissists and see if any of those descriptions match. They tend to keep a stable of sexual contacts and may rotate through them. Like to hear compliments but don’t give them. Make you feel very special at first, then treat you like you don’t matter, then get desperate if they lose you.

It’s just a suggestion; I don’t know nearly enough of the story. But some details ring a bell.
I used to think he was narcissistic but it's honestly difficult to say. He has been surprisingly open...good or bad...

He has always been the one to pursue/maintain our friendship since I never really attached myself due to his seemingly off-putting personality and our random bouts of communication. To me he was an acquaintance for years (about 5) even though we hung out from time to time before we got much closer and eventually in a relationship but apparently he had always considered me a close friend and always mentions he doesn't really like many people to that effect. He told me recently that he broke up with me when I mentioned in casual conversation that I was sure he was the one (I was never told this when it happened). That statement made him afraid since he felt like he had responsibility for my heart. If you all are familiar with INTPs, you would know that we don't make such decisions lightly AT ALL, the fact that I was so certain and vulnerable was scary to me. This is probably why it hurt so much and I essentially never got over it completely.

I'm sorry there are so many details and nuances to this story I guess it's impossible to explain over a forum lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
One thing is for sure... You can't trust him. Right? Then why bother?
You need to see and check it out clearly over your past on the time you spent together, you need to check what were his real intentions all the time. Was he manipulating you or the situation? And in this checking, see his actions, whatever actions he did to you, dont see his behaviour, dont see his words and presentation.. because behaviour can be faked, words and presentation can be faked, overall scenes can be manipulated and twisted.... but his actions will tell you the real truth about him.
And then you can decide, whether his intentions are pure or not. And after that its your choice whether you want to continue it with him or not.
He has consistently and persistently made it clear he wants me to be a part of his life in some capacity. I made it clear I'm not a possession however and I won't stay around for mistreatment.

Speaking to him now...he is in a more stable place, seems more grounded and expressive however my Ti-Fe keeps me in a loop of uncertainty and by extension mistrust.

Lilysocks mentioned that he has a gf and technically she is in the same position as I was years ago...I did explain this to him and told him I'm not going to be the reason he breaks up with her and hurts her etc. He said things were likely to end between them anyway (I can tell he isnt into her that much...but that's not my business).

Even if he became single...I don't think I'm likely to get back with him but I'd be lying to myself if I didn't admit my feelings still linger even after all this time...which is why I'm still here lol. Feelings suck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,548 Posts
Since we hung out...he has become somewhat clingy and expressive towards me (complete opposite to how he was years ago) and it was a bit jarring honestly since he still has a gf and I just don't think I want to risk going back to that place (Super Ti mental block lol) anyway.

Is this behaviour normal for INTJ? Realising what was lost and going all out? He recently sent me a LONG message expressing his feelings for me, mentioning that he has never had a connection like we had but asked me not to respond so I didn't...
And he's doing this.....while with a girlfriend?
Who cares if it's normal for INTJ? It's a red flag from any type. If he can be duplicitous with her, he can be so with anyone.


He has consistently and persistently made it clear he wants me to be a part of his life in some capacity. I made it clear I'm not a possession however and I won't stay around for mistreatment.

Speaking to him now...he is in a more stable place, seems more grounded and expressive however my Ti-Fe keeps me in a loop of uncertainty and by extension mistrust.
...It seems like courting disaster and delaying recovery needlessly tbh.
My question to you is why? Why stick around?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
And he's doing this.....while with a girlfriend?
Who cares if it's normal for INTJ? It's a red flag from any type. If he can be duplicitous with her, he can be so with anyone.



...It seems like courting disaster and delaying recovery needlessly tbh.
My question to you is why? Why stick around?
That's a good question. I honestly did go no contact for a long time, had he not constantly kept in communication I still wouldn't be talking to him today.

I was so angry for soooo long (which is weird for me since I normally forgive and forget) that it became frustrating. I was rude and mean to him the very few times I responded to him but yet still he kept staying in contact. Eventually I got tired of it and slowly became more and more forgiving. I think in this process I let him in a little but my Ti is blocking.

Perhaps I need to just cut off all contact but this time without all the bitterness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
If you do get back together with him I suggest you clearly state your needs and if he sincerely agrees to try harder in meeting those needs and you feel secure in this declaration, perhaps give it a-go. If he can't give a bit and meet you halfway on certain things I suggest not.

I read your whole write-up... very sincere and albeit long, clearly written. I hope you find happiness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,973 Posts
Perhaps I need to just cut off all contact but this time without all the bitterness.
that's up to you, but it does sound right. bitterness can obscure things. it provides energy but it tends to blank out more subtle processing, and then that leaves you prone to second-guessing yourself when/if the other person does come along and manage to imply perhaps your perspective is skewed.

it sounds to me kind of like this renewed contact has at least allowed you to process some of those grey areas. so there's that you could take away from it. and i guess the bottom line would be: now you maybe have a less amped-up perspective on what interacting with him is like, do you even want him in your life?

i know what my own feelings would be, but you and i are different people as well as from different types. i don't like gratuitous hurt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Sorry for reviving an old post, but thought I'd conclude this.

He did essentially "beg" and "pour his heart out" and I was kinda shocked at how cold I was (internally) and how little it meant to me past amusement. I did hang out with him once very early on in the year which triggered it I suppose, it was interesting but it allowed me to fully process everything and realize that there was nothing there for me anymore. He eventually asked me to block him since apparently he couldn't do it himself...so I did and that was that.

Even though I'm very late to respond (typical INTP lol), I appreciate everyone's responses and insights.

In the newest chapter, I now have an unhealthy ENFP headache to deal with...sigh.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top