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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
It's been suggested my thread on amnesia causing lack of motivation that my obsession with working out me is very INFP. I've been fairly happy as an INTP for 8 months, but am not 100% sure (which itself is a common INTP trait) and have allowed the side of me reflected by this label to be expressed, even exaggerated, in many of my posts so they probably won't be much use in typing me.

Recent events seem to support the idea I'm F - I left a job in payroll helping people over the phone pretty much all day everyday for one in a team which is more technical with no people to help. I'm a technical person so this should be ideal, yet it isn't. I'm bothered by the lack of thanks and the warm glow that comes from helping people and it's been just 3 days.

This morning as a self-test (not really a necessity) I was intentionally nasty to someone (it was kinda deserved, but a little sugar coating wouldn't have changed the outcome) which I never thought would be a problem but I feel terrible about it. Usually I'm very much a "say it as I see it" person but looking back rarely have I actually encountered someone I didn't like so I'm always nice which wouldn't present a problem. I'd suggest the only two people that I don't like are gay which is something that violates my worldview (though I'd not have said that was the reason for my dislike in either case) but I never did anything to let them know how I felt, there was no need to so why hurt them? I'm also highly against smoking, tattoos, piercings and even hairdye as they (to me) are ways of self harming and are un-natural. There is very little (if any?) logic behind this view yet it's very much a part of me. I also share the near universal INFP view towards sex (that is, I'm 25 and still waiting for someone I connect with - one night stands just could not be meaningful) where INTP's are generally virgins because they see no point in love.

It's probably worth mentioning that I'm trying to be more spiritual so have been analysing myself alot, and it's hard to see the timing of the INFP suggestion to be a coincidence.

Please feel free to ask anything to help get this sorted once and for all :happy:
 

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Do you talk at people (INTP) or do you actually have conversations (INFP)? Are you capable of engaging in small talk? Don't assume that INTP's have zero concern for others. Individuals who grow up in reasonably normal families seem to have a more balanced profile. Wondering if a mature INTP actually feels more tension resulting from conflict between desire to help others but hampered by weak sensing/feeling functions. The helpdesk work may have served as a mechanism to resolve that tension.

Suggest that you look into volunteer work - as much as your day job will allow. Doesn't need to be a big commitment - clean up day at local park, attend fund raising event, etc. My INFP son is almost obsessive about giving plasma at local blood center. Small acts of kindness can nurture your altruistic impulses without taking over your life.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
amazingdatagirl said:
Individuals who grow up in reasonably normal families seem to have a more balanced profile
Hmm... I grew up in a "reasonably normal family" but don't remember it. I awoke in a park aged 13 and went home (eventually) to a mum who didn't believe I had amnesia so tried to trick me into admitting I was lying for weeks. She had also fairly recently been involved in a car crash and still has problems with her neck. My dad worked away and my sister recently admitted to resenting me as a father figure, but it's hardly a bad life I've led.

So can I hold a conversation involving small talk? Of course, but anyone my age would have to have learnt this whether they like it or not. I'd much rather listen than talk so tend to ask a question and then listen attentively but do I do it to gain knowledge or out of ... concern? for the other persons wellbeing? Also I'm far better expressing myself in writing, though this doesn't really say anything. As you say even INTP's do care about others, they just aren't good at showing it.

Whatever type I may be I'm going to have to find some way of being helpful as there is something missing from my life :sad:
 

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You definitely have an INFP vibe. If you have doubts about the new job then consider going back to helpdesk. Don't apologize for the decision - customer support is generally viewed with contempt by techies.

INFP's have a compulsion to do work that directly benefits individuals. This is a great mystery to me - I change jobs every couple of years.

You seem to have a clear sense of your own values - job satisfaction might mean that you settle for lower paycheck but that probably doesn't matter to you anyway. Look for a rich ESTP girl to help pay the bills. :wink:
 

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INFP's have a compulsion to do work that directly benefits individuals.
I'm an INTP who has a times suspected themselves of being an INFP. And I do have such a compulsion to do work that directly benefits individuals, yet I'm also drawn to trying to understand how the state of the world is arranged that would lead to the need for my action. This seems to be an INTP thing.

I'm currently trying to find a job within the field of consumer protection. Something which I think has great social benefits yet has a stronge economic rationality to it. I find general volunteer work to be a rather thankless and minor in it's effect on the population as a whole. But if I can find myself a position where I can affect more people on a larger scale I think I can be more satisfied.

I definitely have opportunites within the Financial and Banking sector but I don't think this will give me job satisfaction, and will not align with my personal values.

Just my thoughts...I don't think I helped you with this though.
 

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Can I ask... when browsing through mbti profiles or looking through cognitive processes... what are your thought patterns like? how do you analyse the system? (I ask this because it may reveal your thought patterns.. and then we may be able to distinguish between whether you're a ti or fi dominant).

For example... when going through cognitive processes descriptions.. how do you/do you apply the descriptions to your own self? what are your thought processes like when you are trying to analyse the system?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Wow, lots to reply to - thanks! :happy:

amazingdatagirl said:
lIf you have doubts about the new job then consider going back to helpdesk. Don't apologize for the decision - customer support is generally viewed with contempt by techies.
Already considered, but too soon to decide that. I'll go back to why later. It wasn't a payrise that made me move anyway, but a restructure so there is a possibility of going back. From a management point of view it was the right move though...

amazingdatagirl said:
INFP's have a compulsion to do work that directly benefits individuals. This is a great mystery to me - I change jobs every couple of years.
Even if I'm not an F I understand it. Have you done it in any of your jobs?

LemonSqueeze said:
I'm currently trying to find a job within the field of consumer protection. Something which I think has great social benefits yet has a stronge economic rationality to it.
Apart from being offended by the need for such a position (i.e. exploitation by those in power of those not) this sounds very rewarding. Thanks for writing something - at the least it provokes thought which can only be a good thing :happy:

NatalieAnne said:
Can I ask... when browsing through mbti profiles or looking through cognitive processes... what are your thought patterns like? how do you analyse the system?
I've done far more reading of profiles than analysing the processes themselves, and would say that my overall reaction on reading the best INTP profile was "is that why I do that - certainly makes sense... no wonder people hate me". Yet no-one hates me, they just don't choose to spend time with me because I'm me. Reflecting on why I don't read up on the functions it seems obvious that texts on the processes are emotionless and factual writing without emotion just isn't appealing, I switch off. Profiles written by happy individuals of the type in question are a joy to read, even if they don't relate to me at all.

I'll read a new (to me) INFP profile now and write what goes through my mind - seems the best way? I've chosen this one as it's not too long and is personal - E. Buie -> INFP Profile


For INFPs, life is a journey to understand themselves and the world.
Well yeah, what else is there in this physical life?

Where some others may strive for achievements such as degrees and promotions, an INFP tends to consider these as important mainly for their value in making it easier to fulfill the INFP's life goals.
Went to uni, studied IT, not used it at all. Started at the bottom as a temp in a customer service roll and was still there 4 years later... I consider doing my degree to be the biggest waste of time in my life and it's not something I advertise to those I've just met as it's not a part of me, just a set of skills that allows me to help people.

INFPs value authenticity, acceptance, and the search for meaning in life in both the ordinary events of life and the grand scheme of the universe.
Memories return of wanting to hug a girl for calling me skinny a couple of weeks back - such honesty is sadly lacking in the world. Then remember the sadness that I didn't have the confidence to do it.

They are generally good at perceiving possibilities for improving the world
Did I design the spreadsheets at work to make the job easier for me or so I didn't have to tell people they'd done it wrong so often... *remembers leaving incorrect ones in people's trays rather than having to tell them to their face*. Yup, I dislike being the bearer of bad news. Not to mention they free up colleagues time so they are less stressed which makes the office a happier place to be. It may not be on a global scale but knowing I improved my immediate world is a good start.

Ideas and feelings (and particularly ideas about feelings) form the center of an INFPs existence. As INFPs explore the world, they discover new relationships, concepts, and connections about the universe. This exploration guides INFPs to find values important to themselves.
Why was I so stupid as to waste my life being a depressed nihilist when there is a whole world out there? In fact why am I indoors now when it's still light and I could be watching some ducks preparing for sleep...

Sometimes INFPs deny having ideals or principles since it's possible to equate a reliance on principles with dogmatism and inflexibility. Instead, they prefer to talk about feelings: not momentary emotional states but the personal values on which the feeling function operates.
Oh how nice it would be to be a squirrel without a care in the world! Every theory I make gets broken so quickly I would have said I had no principles on what makes a good person, but it could just as easily be denial.

INFPs often place a high value on harmony, and avoid conflict unless confrontation becomes necessary.
Why have I not told X (a colleague) that his lax attitude is offensive? Why?? It would only cause a brief period of disharmony in the office and it might shake him up... If only he'd ask I'd tell him but never would I bring it up.

INFPs do not measure life in terms of the number of friends and acquaintances they have but rather by the quality of their friendships. For INFPs, the distinction between friends and acquaintances is very important; an acquaintance is someone they spend time with while a friend is someone with whom an INFP can share ideas and feelings. Their most valuable friends are people who understand their important values and accept them unconditionally.
*remembers thread (on another forum) entitled "what is a friend?"* *thinks fondly about the select few, still with a doubt as to which to truly call friends* Yeah, friends are great - I should go out and find some more.
One common discouragement for INFP's is that societal change often seems impossible.
So many people, all seemingly in love with consumerism and their obsession with physical appearance. Oh for a global natural disaster to kick things off...


Sorry for the all over the place style, but that is my mind :happy:

In a similar fashion here are my thoughts on today, if anyone's still reading :tongue:

It's too soon to tell if I like my new job, I could just be unimpressed with my new colleagues. I've gone from a mainly young female team to an older male one, it's the difference between being in a pub and a hairdressers. Uninspiring talk of new shoes and celebrity idols has been replaced with swearing, banter and the objectification of women. It offends me. Yet surrounded by such immaturity (as I see it) I actually laugh more and have things to say, when the above three topics are avoided. I see me in these people, they all seem to be as I was a couple of years ago - happily awaiting an end to a pointless struggle that they call life. I want to make them get past this view, yet have no idea where to start. At least they are happy in their delusions, I hope it lasts for them. Did I mention the phone actually rang a couple of times today? Certainly didn't darken my mood.

Sorry for the really long post but I would like to put a label under my name once again!
 

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Wow, lots to reply to - thanks! :happy:

Already considered, but too soon to decide that. I'll go back to why later. It wasn't a payrise that made me move anyway, but a restructure so there is a possibility of going back. From a management point of view it was the right move though...

Even if I'm not an F I understand it. Have you done it in any of your jobs?

Apart from being offended by the need for such a position (i.e. exploitation by those in power of those not) this sounds very rewarding. Thanks for writing something - at the least it provokes thought which can only be a good thing :happy:

I've done far more reading of profiles than analysing the processes themselves, and would say that my overall reaction on reading the best INTP profile was "is that why I do that - certainly makes sense... no wonder people hate me". Yet no-one hates me, they just don't choose to spend time with me because I'm me. Reflecting on why I don't read up on the functions it seems obvious that texts on the processes are emotionless and factual writing without emotion just isn't appealing, I switch off. Profiles written by happy individuals of the type in question are a joy to read, even if they don't relate to me at all.

I'll read a new (to me) INFP profile now and write what goes through my mind - seems the best way? I've chosen this one as it's not too long and is personal - E. Buie -> INFP Profile


Well yeah, what else is there in this physical life?

Went to uni, studied IT, not used it at all. Started at the bottom as a temp in a customer service roll and was still there 4 years later... I consider doing my degree to be the biggest waste of time in my life and it's not something I advertise to those I've just met as it's not a part of me, just a set of skills that allows me to help people.

Memories return of wanting to hug a girl for calling me skinny a couple of weeks back - such honesty is sadly lacking in the world. Then remember the sadness that I didn't have the confidence to do it.

Did I design the spreadsheets at work to make the job easier for me or so I didn't have to tell people they'd done it wrong so often... *remembers leaving incorrect ones in people's trays rather than having to tell them to their face*. Yup, I dislike being the bearer of bad news. Not to mention they free up colleagues time so they are less stressed which makes the office a happier place to be. It may not be on a global scale but knowing I improved my immediate world is a good start.

Why was I so stupid as to waste my life being a depressed nihilist when there is a whole world out there? In fact why am I indoors now when it's still light and I could be watching some ducks preparing for sleep...

Oh how nice it would be to be a squirrel without a care in the world! Every theory I make gets broken so quickly I would have said I had no principles on what makes a good person, but it could just as easily be denial.

Why have I not told X (a colleague) that his lax attitude is offensive? Why?? It would only cause a brief period of disharmony in the office and it might shake him up... If only he'd ask I'd tell him but never would I bring it up.

*remembers thread (on another forum) entitled "what is a friend?"* *thinks fondly about the select few, still with a doubt as to which to truly call friends* Yeah, friends are great - I should go out and find some more.
So many people, all seemingly in love with consumerism and their obsession with physical appearance. Oh for a global natural disaster to kick things off...


Sorry for the all over the place style, but that is my mind :happy:

In a similar fashion here are my thoughts on today, if anyone's still reading :tongue:

It's too soon to tell if I like my new job, I could just be unimpressed with my new colleagues. I've gone from a mainly young female team to an older male one, it's the difference between being in a pub and a hairdressers. Uninspiring talk of new shoes and celebrity idols has been replaced with swearing, banter and the objectification of women. It offends me. Yet surrounded by such immaturity (as I see it) I actually laugh more and have things to say, when the above three topics are avoided. I see me in these people, they all seem to be as I was a couple of years ago - happily awaiting an end to a pointless struggle that they call life. I want to make them get past this view, yet have no idea where to start. At least they are happy in their delusions, I hope it lasts for them. Did I mention the phone actually rang a couple of times today? Certainly didn't darken my mood.

Sorry for the really long post but I would like to put a label under my name once again!
Wow, that was awesome can I say first of all.

I suggest you now go through your response here, or even pluck out a news article and write down your thought processes/how you've made sense of these things..

Then have a look through this, and see if you can analyse what you've written;

.

Ti is an abstract deductive reasoning process. Would it be correct to say that Ti focuses on stripping away at the superficial side of any given object/situation to find the inner and pure objective information? Ti then goes to define and ultimately fit the piece of information into an internal model of all objective information collected thus far. All done unconsciously for the most part until a particularly complex bit of information cannot fit in which case both the information and the internal construct are called into question until all inconsistencies are worked out and the puzzle is solved. The larger problems require varying amounts of time, energy, and logical processing until everything fits once again. This is how Ti can pinpoint inconsistencies from miles away, the information they received is not the proper shape or not even from the same puzzle as they understand the world to function.

Fi would then be an abstract integration process taking into account pure subjective information or 'feelings'. The internal world model is constructed less of logical systems as Ti. Fi focuses less on defining new information and more on simply understanding and then integrating it to the basic framework already in place. Like conducting and building a song one instrumental piece at a time. Fi is focused on how things work together, and dissonance is readily apparent. A distinction from the inconsistency targeting of Ti where things must fit, Fi can work with small inconsistencies as long as the bigger picture can still function as whole.

Objectivity and subjectivity are a large separation in the functions. Fi types are very close to their inner feelings, understand them, yet the objectivity of language prevents them from expressing this portion of their being. Fi then needs to take subjective viewpoints into account in their internal world model because that is the part world they best understand and they see it to affect their worldview greatly. This is not to say they ignore objectivity, yet a danger zone for Fi (DomFi especially) is to ignore objective truth that doesn't harmonize with their subjective truth resulting in either an overly-emotional or a self-centered person (or both, depending on your perspective). Ti, on the other hand, is either does not understand it like Fi can (much like Fi has a harder time with deductive reasoning of objective qualities), or deems it irrelevant. An unbalanced Ti would be entirely disconnected with the human element leaving their world model incomplete and too rigid for that sort of information. (ironically becoming too subjective in their objectivity)

I view the two functions as then starting from the same point when given piece of information and going opposite directions (not necessarily to opposing conclusions, however). Fi preferring to work outward only going inward when harmony is not achieved, and Ti working inward venturing outward when the pieces do not fit. Thus, they are almost mirror processes, neither being more or less rational than the other; only as rational as the information going in.
Ti is a subjective process but it seeks to use objective information, or information that can be quantified and is standard regardless of observer. Fi does not dismiss the idea of perspective and seeks to include the human element with the information it gathers. Both processes are subjective in that they depend on the person involved to interpret the data

(I am by no means an mbti expert, so anything I suggest is my subjective opinion of what may help you out here >.<)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I suggest you now go through your response here, or even pluck out a news article and write down your thought processes/how you've made sense of these things.. Then have a look through this, and see if you can analyse what you've written
As I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist who thinks the media is only there to tell us what they want us to know I'll stick to my experiences.

One thing I've been trying to sort out is my view of my new colleagues.

Are these people really bad for letting me know on my first day that "if I point out the window and he runs towards you it's because there's something worth looking at crossing the carpark" or are they just appreciating the female form as if a piece of art? It really offends me, but it's doing no harm to me or anyone else.

Suggesting a stripper as a motivational aid - much like the above I'm offended just by the thought of it.

Do I really dislike one of them for being covered in tattoos (and indeed working in a tattoo shop at weekends)? Yes. But this bothers me too - it's his body so why should he not abuse it as he sees fit? It doesn't hurt anyone...

What is the mood in the office? They moan, they poke fun at each other, they recount drunken experiences yet somehow the atmosphere isn't bad most of the time. To be bad one of them would have to care but seemingly they don't. Will be interesting to see what happens when they think I should join in - INTP destroy them with words or INFP cry. Hopefully it wont come down to this!

I tried to run this through Psilo's guide but it's wordy I lost interest... It is nearly bedtime after all. I'll try again tomorrow :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So, another night with no plans allows for the writing of yet more convoluted crap causing me to be a burden to others... sorry! You chose to read, so I'll assume it's not too much of a burden...

So, Ti and Fe or Fi and Te? Using the function profiles from cognitiveprocesses.com (as they are less precise/use less long words than Psilo's) I'm still unsure but leaning towards F.

Ti - Categorising and sub-categorising aren't fun, and there is little point to it. I may like, dislike or not care depending on the subject but cannot think of a single thing I've subcategorised. "we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system" Also screams out wrongness. Many systems are horribly inefficient and should be scrapped, no effort should be spared to make a better one (with the aim of efficiency, of course). Minimal effort is a pet hate, if you can't do a job well don't start it.

Fe has one major thing that makes me think I use it though, and I'm aware of being rubbish at the rest (which would suggest it's my inferior?) "self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves" is the one I do. To ask questions of another seems nosy, I don't like people doing it to me so I don't do it to others. I talk lots and hope they reply. I care about so few people enough to expend the energy disclosing things so I am considered distant by most.

Or

Fi "It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words". Why do I hate anything unnatural? I cannot put words to it. "it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in" I don't value physical appearance and having spent over an hour sitting looking straight at a girl I can remember nothing of her looks. Is this the filter in action? I remember her name, that she had to be up at 7 for work and that she was a happy person, but when I lost her I hadn't a hope of picking her out of a crowd. "[Fi] helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good." Or both, in the case of nearly everyone I meet? I "know" when people are lying and two-faced when talking to another (not so good at it when they are talking to me though...) yet somehow get the idea that they aren't doing it for personal gain, thus are good underneath the action.

Te - I relate to all except the planning, scheduling and my organising environment and ideas in charts. I organise ideas and my life in my head, not on paper, and my bedroom and work desk would be called a disorganised mess by anyone with the slightest motivation to organise. "At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively." My spreadsheets? Conflict reduction and efficiency in one - no wonder I love making them?!

To quote from the same thread as Psilo's functions
Well, I knew he was not a INTP in the first place, and so I did let him reach his conlussion basically knowing that he'd say he was an INTP just to prove something I had hypotesized long before he reached his conclussion.

INFPs like to think they are INTPs.

At least those ones who have intelligence stablished as a high value quality in a person.
Is so true - I don't want to admit to being influenced by stuff that cannot be expressed, yet it seems to be right.

Then to read INFP profile - Typology Central (specifically the first paragraph of the second post) only confirms it (I think) as everything is personal despite my ability to see the other side.

I'll await some stiff rebutal in the hope of retaining my T but am not holding out much hope :crazy:
 

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As I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist who thinks the media is only there to tell us what they want us to know I'll stick to my experiences.

One thing I've been trying to sort out is my view of my new colleagues.

Are these people really bad for letting me know on my first day that "if I point out the window and he runs towards you it's because there's something worth looking at crossing the carpark" or are they just appreciating the female form as if a piece of art? It really offends me, but it's doing no harm to me or anyone else.

Suggesting a stripper as a motivational aid - much like the above I'm offended just by the thought of it.

Do I really dislike one of them for being covered in tattoos (and indeed working in a tattoo shop at weekends)? Yes. But this bothers me too - it's his body so why should he not abuse it as he sees fit? It doesn't hurt anyone...

What is the mood in the office? They moan, they poke fun at each other, they recount drunken experiences yet somehow the atmosphere isn't bad most of the time. To be bad one of them would have to care but seemingly they don't. Will be interesting to see what happens when they think I should join in - INTP destroy them with words or INFP cry. Hopefully it wont come down to this!

I tried to run this through Psilo's guide but it's wordy I lost interest... It is nearly bedtime after all. I'll try again tomorrow :happy:
Sounds like an Fi Ne combo going on here, to me. You're matching your personal values, with the consideration of others, using Ne to take into account the possibilities in their motivations. It allows you to attend harmony with yourself by keeping to your values, without compromise, without applying "harsh" judgments on others for theirs. You wouldn't want their views pushed on you (would compromise your Fi, in an unacceptable way), so you don't want to do that to them. Recounting, Fi telling you what's important to you, Ne reading their motivations and pattern building. As far as Te goes, if you're an XNFP, it's a pretty low function, and I think the lower the function, the less adapt you are at using it. The function descriptions, tend to describe the way they would be used as dominants, so the Te description, that you're reading, is going to describe Te in an ENTJish way of using it, a masterful way. If you're an XNFP, you're only going to see a few traits of it, within yourself. I think, that's probably why we have a difficult time getting organized, motivated, and carrying through, with any of our plans.

Just trying to be helpful, because I've faced the xNxP dilemma, myself, for a while. I think, in all honesty, I'm an INFP, despite not wanting to admit it, either. lol
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Big bad wolf said:
Sounds like an Fi Ne combo going on here, to me. ... Just trying to be helpful, because I've faced the xNxP dilemma, myself, for a while. I think, in all honesty, I'm an INFP, despite not wanting to admit it, either. lol
Thanks - this is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. Except hoping you'd suggest I was a T...
 

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Thanks - this is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. Except hoping you'd suggest I was a T...
Well, I'm not the best at this stuff, so no need to take my word for it. :laughing: Grey, Functionanalyst, and Orangeappled are far better at this stuff, than me, if you can track one of them down for help.

Also, I don't know how accurate these are, but I found them on another forum.

"It looks like a fair number of NFPs end up in the sciences or other technical fields. I found the below scale in a book called "Functions of Type" (which is only 12 bucks and really interesting). I took the below and ended up with as much Ti as Fi, becuase my Fi is kind of clunky. I wondered how other NFPs look in comparison.

Give yourself a 0 if you never, ever do the item and a 5 if you do it all the time, in your sleep, like breathing. (HINT: I got all fives for the Ne test but tons of zeros on the Fe test.)



Ti 1: I organize data and ideas into a logical internal framework or sets of categories.
Ti 2: I seek data to fill holes in my models, frameworks, blueprints and logical taxonomies
Ti 3: I use my inner understanding of how ideas and things logically fit together to help me understand how things work
Ti 4: I modify models and frameworks to accommodate new data, thereby preserving inner logical consistency
Ti 5: I seek precision in my use of words and in my internal models, frameworks, and blueprints
Ti 6: I logically prioritize categories and components of models in terms of the needs of the situation
Ti 7: I restructure my priorities based upon my category profiles
Ti 8: I make decisions based on my category profiles
Ti 9: I seek logical consistency in my life
Ti 10: I use precise language to try and get the world to understand logical conceptual models and/or blueprints
_________________

Alright for benchmarking, see how you guys fare on Fi... (Anybody can play, not just feelers!) This would should feel really "right".


F1: I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me
F2: I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values
F3: I am aware of universal personal values
F4: I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values
F5: I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions
F6: I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity
F7: I assess other people�s emotional states by reading my own internal reactions.
F8: I judge ideas, attitudes and behaviors according to my values
F9: I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may endanger a personal relationship"
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Big bad wolf said:
Also, I don't know how accurate these are, but I found them on another forum.
Thanks, but what are the Ti questions on about! What do they mean?!

T1 0 (Organise?)
T2 3 (I seek more stuff to think about, but not frame)
T3 4 (I like taking things apart...)
T4 2 (if I ever try and construct a framework the next thing that should fit destroys it)
T5 4 (when comfortable or something goes against me I spurt incomprehensible rubbish, but when free to take my time I like using the right word)
T6 1 (See a situation, deal with it. Hope it works, If not try again)
T7 1 (eh... priorities based on nothingness?)
T8 ??
T9 3 (I'd love to, but it doesn't work)
T10 4 (what's the difference between this and T4?)
Total 22 (or more...)

F1 4 (I do then feel about it later. Next time I consider last times reaction)
F2 4
F3 3 (what I see as universal values I usually disagree with, so they aren't universal?)
F4 4
F5 3
F6 5
F7 3
F8 3
F9 ? (I've not found anything worth crusading for that I feel I could do anything about... I'd do anything I felt strongly about regardless of the effects on me, but unsure on hurting someone I really care about)
Total 31 (or more?)

This isn't that accurate though as I really don't understand the concepts of "mental frameworks" or how they could be used. The world is ever changing as are my views on both what is, what others are and even what I like - how can you put this into a framework? The F questions are far more obvious in meaning, hence the lack of explanations.

Maybe one of the above mentioned experts will have a read and give me an opinion, but I'm not going to bother them.
 

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A Ti user almost never takes anything at face value. INTPs like looking at a problem or issue from many different angles. For example, a debate. An INTP will not be driven to take one side of the debate, but will be driven to be able to clearly understand both or whatever sides there are to the debate. An INTP will gladly take any side on the debate, even if they don't believe in that they are arguing for or against. They do this for the sake of intelligence and for the sake of clarity of reason. This is objectivity.

INFPs spent most of their time analyzing what should be valued to them (usually liberal values).

INTPs spend most of their time analyzing things by looking at many different angles.

As for me, I spend most of my time thinking about experiences and pseudo-experiences. :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
HandiAce said:
An INTP will not be driven to take one side of the debate, but will be driven to be able to clearly understand both or whatever sides there are to the debate
When does a discussion become a debate?

I'm an IP thus I avoid conflict which debate can soon become if someone is attached to their side but poor at expression and most of my friends aren't the most literate bunch you could hope to meet. I'm quiet and have never found a live partner to have debates with (INFP vs me was via e-mail, and she argued many sides - just to add to the confusion. She "knew" that was the best way to improve me and it worked!). So while all the talk in profiles of debates is great it's just never been a part of my life that I can analyse. Is there any chance you can "take" any other situation involving action (i.e. not art) than a debate and example the objectivity?

Completely off topic - do they have debating lessons in the US? Would explain the prevalence of them....

HandiAce said:
INFPs spent most of their time analyzing what should be valued to them (usually liberal values).
Is this the constant nagging I get about tattoos/piercings? Why do they matter? My general views do seem to be liberal but I had to look up what liberal views are to check - they are just in my head and seem like common sense :blushed:

HandiAce said:
INTPs spend most of their time analyzing things by looking at many different angles.
Angles along the lines of "did I enjoy that because X or because it wasn't Y" or am I barking up the wrong tree? I think more along the lines of "I shouldn't have enjoyed that but I did - why?", if that fits any of these descriptions...

HandiAce said:
As for me, I spend most of my time thinking about experiences and pseudo-experiences.
Don't try and add another option - there is nothing else in life except experiences, so any thought must surely be based on them? At least I don't consider psuedo-experiences, so I'm not an ISFJ (not that I ever thought I was :laughing:)

Thanks for the thoughts anyway, I'm writing more so there will be more to analyse :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
unleashthehounds said:
This seems to be more of an INFP attitude than INTP
Great! Even the near subconscious bits of my writing seem INFP, this is something I often worry about. Too much actually!

No-one has said anything to suggest I'm a T so guess it's decided?
 

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Great! Even the near subconscious bits of my writing seem INFP, this is something I often worry about. Too much actually!

No-one has said anything to suggest I'm a T so guess it's decided?
What does the test say? Are you one of the people who scores close to 50/50 on the T/F scale?

I score 70/30 on T/F, and although I'm convinced I'm INTP, I still identify with a few of the INFP traits. So there may well be a hybrid type that enjoys the benefits of both types :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The test only measures what you'd like to think you do, sitting here I could pass a lie detector test while describing myself as a T. But from analysing my actual thoughts and actions I don't think I am. Is this the response of a fact based person expressed with great clarity or a rant aiming towards my ideal world? (bear in mind I have no medical training, I've never even met anyone with ADHD and have no idea how it's treated...)

I'm sorry, but how does drugging you make you notice that the other kids are sitting quietly while you weren't last week but are now? You can control yourself, and if you'd have been hit every time you were "rowdy" you'd have got the idea just as well. If you can control it it's not a proper disorder. (I hate meds more than disorders, especially due to animal testing and the huge profits made exploiting those who "need" to take them. Inventing disorders and over diagnosing them to sell more... :angry: - it's nothing personal, honest!)
Seems clear to me!

For reference my test results are here
 
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