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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've scored both on tests in the past save. When I read descriptions I can identify points in both but most profiles seem too narrow to choose. I have two friends that fit into both INTJ and INTP. I see myself as in between. So any help would be welcome.

Here's a little about me to help get a better picture

  • I know I score introversion a lot, and that is pretty certain. I've been to parties/gatherings/etc. and honestly stuck to people I already knew. I'm the same way when working and at school. I'm certainly the most outgoing of the group as I'm usually the one to arrange stuff.
  • I've been told I think too much, so I know that the thinking preference is there. People have told me I can be cold, logical, and most of the traditional key points for that dictotomy. One thing that has stood out in most of the jobs and classes is the trait of calmness which from what I've read is a NT thing.
  • The reason I get told I'm INTP is that family and friends see me as less consistent when compared to my INFJ sister. That and the point that I'm able to concentrate.
  • The reason I flip to INTJ is mainly the fact that now that I'm more confident in myself, the more planning is important. I was a a little whimsical in high school but it didn't interfere with school. I avoided certain assingments more because I saw no purpose to them but memorization which I have since changed. Maturity certainly plays a factor into that but the first test I did was in High School and I scored INTJ then.
  • I have a certain head in the clouds kind of approach to life, yet it hasn't affected me like my INTP friend. He can be very ignorant of things like returning phone calls and ackloweging that your even talking to him.
Having taking the test about five years ago in High School and now in Psych classes in college, I'm bugged by just picking one. Maybe its denial. Maybe I see myself differently than others do. Curiosity did kill the cat so as it stands INTx seems the best fit. Sorry about the long windedness of the post, I just wanted to add enough to get a better picture. Any ideas or advice would help.
 

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The great divide between the INTJ and INTP is that one thinks more about implementing ideas and the other reacting to ideas.

Both types I believe would make do in an engineering. The INTP prefers it because as problem solvers, they get energy by reacting to what's at take in front of them and trying different things on whatever it is.

INTJs would like it because they trust their visions. They have a knack for knowing whether a system or whatever is functioning or not and this provides feedback to their visions. That gives them direction.

INTPs like intelligence and learning for their own sake. Often, once a conclusion is jumped to, the search still isn't over to INTPs

INTJs like learning things for a specific gain. A conclusion jumped to is a satisfying feeling unless some other important evidence that disproves the conclusions comes up
 

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The difference between INTP and INTJ is night and day.

Socially, do the majority of people like you naturally and are you "easy going" - if so INTP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Clarity

You sound more INTP to me reading the way you write.
Took the cognitive functions test. It came out with Ne then Ti. I could be an ENTP but I'd have to look at the functions more.

The difference between INTP and INTJ is night and day.

Socially, do the majority of people like you naturally and are you "easy going" - if so INTP.
Yeah, I can get along with people pretty easily when I'm up for it.
 

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did you ever figure out your personality type?

anyway, taking a leaf out of another post since it went unused: INTPs are more afraid of failure - INTJs are more confident. i've seen a negative(?) comment on INTPs that referred to them as "unmotivated INTJs". INTJs usually devote more focus to certain areas in order to master them, while INTPs are rather strewn about.. INTJs focus on problems even after they understand them, INTPs seem to get bored with their method and lose motivation.

i also get an ENTP vibe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I' m pretty strewn about...

did you ever figure out your personality type?

anyway, taking a leaf out of another post since it went unused: INTPs are more afraid of failure - INTJs are more confident. i've seen a negative(?) comment on INTPs that referred to them as "unmotivated INTJs". INTJs usually devote more focus to certain areas in order to master them, while INTPs are rather strewn about.. INTJs focus on problems even after they understand them, INTPs seem to get bored with their method and lose motivation.

i also get an ENTP vibe.
I read about that confidence difference too. I have a friend that's INTJ and he was confident even when i met a long time ago. Its noticible confidence but certainly not always warranted. As far the second part of your post. Um...my brain is pretty darn random so that fits in quite well actually. I went with INTP over ENTP since even though its about functions, which something I'm not quite confident I know well enough to say, I'm less social than I figured an extrovert would be. I've seen a few threads on here about shy extroverts, and my two cents are that its not totally shyness as shyness is typically stereotyped. It more nerves and caution than the typical living in their own head. Anyways, I'm curious as to why you get an ENTP vibe?
 

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The functions are supposed to determine I or E because introverted functions are focused more inward and extroverted functions are focused outward, so I and E behaviors should emerge.

I would say your best choice is INTP. I've scored as INTJ before, with a low J, and I scored ENTP on the cognitive functions test, but it's pretty inaccurate for most types.

Do you like getting things concrete so you can form long term plans, or do you only do plan as a necessity?

And, INTPs are only unmotivated if they haven't found something interesting and with enough depth to devote their attention to. We're generally either on or off. Specializing in one topic works much better then switching from following a schedule of doing this for 2 hours then something else for 2, etc.
 

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The difference between INTP and INTJ is night and day.

Socially, do the majority of people like you naturally and are you "easy going" - if so INTP.
As someone who tests on the border of INTJ and INTP, just go with it. It's not a huge deal...sure, you'll have half a cupboard full of alphabetized spices and a sink full of mismatched dishes, but there are worse things.
 

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My suggestion....

Have you ever looked through the cognitive functions? This can be a useful way to see which way you are by taking a look at this from another angle, at least as I see it.

The other thought is the question of how you feel about structure and rules in the world? Do you follow a number of rules and structures, prefering organization time and time again or are you more likely to just roll with the punches and take whatever happens? While I may seem like I just roll with the punches, I tend to have many contingency plans ready at a moment's notice and launch into them at will. I enjoy having plans and strategies and being that tactician that is what I see as one view of an INTJ.
 

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INTJ - Ni Te: Ni is used to build future based context based on impressions, and Te is used to organize plans based on empirical information. The judging function is Te and uses objective (external) information, which means it prefers things to be concrete (J).

INTP - Ti Ne: Ti is used to analyze the logic of an idea or information, then Ne is used to understand how the system works. Ti is the judging function and uses subjective (internal) information, which means it prefers flexibility (P).

So based on the functions, an INTJ will learn something until it satisfies their Ni, then they'll use what they learned to implement their plans with Te. An INTP will learn something by going back and forth between Ti and Ne until their Ti is satisfied, then they're done because the goal is to learn how the system works. The only time an INTP will continue work is if they see something about the system that they think needs to be improved.

You might also want to look over this page to get an idea of how the functions work together. http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/8121-beginners-guide-mbti.html

Timmah said:
I'm bugged by just picking one.
That points to INTP.
 

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I read about that confidence difference too. I have a friend that's INTJ and he was confident even when i met a long time ago. Its noticible confidence but certainly not always warranted. As far the second part of your post. Um...my brain is pretty darn random so that fits in quite well actually. I went with INTP over ENTP since even though its about functions, which something I'm not quite confident I know well enough to say, I'm less social than I figured an extrovert would be. I've seen a few threads on here about shy extroverts, and my two cents are that its not totally shyness as shyness is typically stereotyped. It more nerves and caution than the typical living in their own head. Anyways, I'm curious as to why you get an ENTP vibe?
something about the way you came across suggested ENTP. plus ENTP is ne, ti, fe, si while INTP is ti, ne, si, fe. [note: INTJ is ni, te, fi, se.] it's probably not worthy of investigating, yet there's no harm in double-checking and it's not too hard to squash, so: do you recover/energize inwardly or outwardly, with solitude or stimuli? how much do you enjoy arguing? (ENTPs like it more than the average bear, i think.) if you want to stereotype, INTP are usually more "nerdy". ENTPs are audience-y (yes, i'm making up a word) and display it all to the world, INTPs are more reserved.

are you more ni or ne? ti or te?
INTPs remind me of philosophers.

have you taken a functions test? if so, what were the highest scores out of all the functions? or just the results of it, if you have it. it can be a lot easier to gauge what you are if you have percentages.

more leafing.
Extraverted Thinking (Te):
- Relies on objective facts outside the thinker as the decisive factor.
- Abstract ideas have less importance.
- Focuses on details, including irrelevancies.
- Goal is the solution of practical problems, planning programs, developing formulas, etc.
- May be overwhelmed by facts, smothering their meaning and paralyzing the thinking.

Introverted Thinking (Ti):
- Relies on the abstract idea as the decisive factor.
- External facts are used as illustrative proof of the abstract idea.
- Focuses on similarities, dismissing irrelevancies.
- Goal is formulating questions, developing theories, yielding insight, etc.
- May neglect facts that don't support the idea.

Extraverted Feeling (Fe):
- Serves to make the individual always feel correctly (conventionally.)
- Adapts the individual to the objective situation based on the customs and conventions of the environment.
- Finds value in the collective ideals of the community.
- Goal is the formation of harmonious emotional relationships.
- May suppress the personal standpoint entirely.

Introverted Feeling (Fi):
- Guides the emotional acceptance or rejection of various aspects of life.
- Adapts the objective situation to the individual by excluding or igonoring the unacceptable.
- Finds value inside the self from inner appreciation and abstraction.
- Goal is the fostering of inner emotional life and outer realization of inner ideal.
- May find no objective fulfillment or outlet for expression.

Extraverted Sensing (Se):
- Values the object sensed rather than the subjective impression of the object.
- Impression is of concrete reality.
- Leads to concrete enjoyment of things.
- Attention is focused on the strongest stimulus.
- Develops a pleasure-loving outer self.

Introverted Sensing (Si):
- Values the subjective impression of the object rather than the object itself.
- Impression is subjective, arising from some meaning or significance of the object.
- Leads to ideas through archetypes rather than physical reality.
- Attention is directed by inner interests. Other stimuli may be ignored.
- Develops an eccentric and individual inner self. May appear irrational to others.

Extraverted Intuition (Ne):
- Uses inner understanding in the interests of the objective situation.
- Aims to change the objective situation.
- Searches for emerging possibilities in outer objects.
- Finds self-expression natural and easy.
- Finds value in the initiation and promotion of new enterprises.
- Needs a developed judging function to complete its activities.

Introverted Intuition (Ni):
- Uses the objective situation in the interests of inner understanding.
- Aims to change the subjective understanding of the objective situation.
- Searches for new ways of viewing and understanding life.
- Finds self-expression difficult.
- Finds value in the interpretation of life and promotion of understanding.
- Needs a developed judging function to express visions and to put them into practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
And it continues

That points to INTP.
Lol, that's what I thought after posting the thread

something about the way you came across suggested ENTP. plus ENTP is ne, ti, fe, si while INTP is ti, ne, si, fe. [note: INTJ is ni, te, fi, se.] it's probably not worthy of investigating, yet there's no harm in double-checking and it's not too hard to squash, so: do you recover/energize inwardly or outwardly, with solitude or stimuli? how much do you enjoy arguing? (ENTPs like it more than the average bear, i think.) if you want to stereotype, INTP are usually more "nerdy". ENTPs are audience-y (yes, i'm making up a word) and display it all to the world, INTPs are more reserved.

are you more ni or ne? ti or te?
INTPs remind me of philosophers.

have you taken a functions test? if so, what were the highest scores out of all the functions? or just the results of it, if you have it. it can be a lot easier to gauge what you are if you have percentages.

more leafing.
That is one word I would not use to describe myself. I don't love arguing. The cognitive functions test said ENTP since my Ne was really high. People have said ENTP's can be some of the more introverted extroverts so I'll take their word on it. I haven't been the most outgoing person, but I've had a fairly decent sized circle of acquaintances since I was a kid. I guess I'm a more socialable loner if that's possible. I should say that my confidence eroded the past couple years due to some setbacks and have been building myself back up. I'm also not very reserved, I've had people tell I talk too much. Actually come to think about it I've been called a lot of things. Despite saying all of that I spent a lot of time in my head. I'm pretty certain I'm a non-nerdy but still INTP. I normally score close to the middle when it comes to everything on the MBTI tests.
 

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That is one word I would not use to describe myself. I don't love arguing. The cognitive functions test said ENTP since my Ne was really high. People have said ENTP's can be some of the more introverted extroverts so I'll take their word on it. I haven't been the most outgoing person, but I've had a fairly decent sized circle of acquaintances since I was a kid. I guess I'm a more socialable loner if that's possible. I should say that my confidence eroded the past couple years due to some setbacks and have been building myself back up. I'm also not very reserved, I've had people tell I talk too much. Actually come to think about it I've been called a lot of things. Despite saying all of that I spent a lot of time in my head. I'm pretty certain I'm a non-nerdy but still INTP. I normally score close to the middle when it comes to everything on the MBTI tests.
you do seem more INTP than INTJ. i knew an ENTP that was rather laid back, though, so i didn't want to rule it out. you could always be introspective or going through a spell.

what about your ti, si, fi, ni, etc? you can (re)take the functions test here, if you want, and list the scores. if it's not a pain, 'cause it would help. for example, a high ne with low t doesn't usually indicate INTP, i don't think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Cognitive Function Result

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ***************************** (29.2) average use
introverted Sensing (Si) *************************** (27.1) average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************************* (45.4) excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ***************************** (29) average use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************** (20.1) limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************* (37.4) excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************* (20) limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ******************************* (31.2) good use

There's the result.
 

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^I would call Jung Ni dominant, based on his own definitions: Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10. And he was certainly INTP, which goes to show you how good MBTI function assignments are.

Timmah, INTP fits better than INTJ.
Yes Jung comes to Ni dominance at certain point in his investigation around 1913 when he starts experiencing the collective unconscious and the archetypes, as he realizes the potential of within is starting to overcome his Logical Subjective consistency, and fears turning mad; even so in works before psychological types it is clearly that his tendency is towards Ti, even at the development of his Jungian Typology his first step is differentiating his thinking/ logical judging style from freud's objective point of view. At certain point a couple of year before during his thesis he shows a tendency towards an humanitarian mystical NF, possibly according to Ti dominance an attempt to experience a higher on his inferior Fe, specially because this tendency never appears again in any of his following works.
But this show he had Ti-Ni combo during later works as his main goal is trying to bring into subjective personal understanding his interpretation of psychospiritual beliefs like his work with Richard Wilhelm about the book of Tao.
as you read this you can see thorugh how personalized his thinking style is as well as how his intuition is directed towards the inside. Also in works like Psychology and Alchemy he demonstrates lots of Ti- Ni in the conclusions he arrives at; as you can see his consistency is logical but very subjective such as his language also very personalized.

Is that even possible?
ask yourself this: is Ti perceptible for outsiders? as you start differentiating Ti from Te
you realize that the actual factor of counterpointing is not present in the logical consistency but in the final direction the thinking has towards the subject. When thinking is subjectified it can also be perceived.
Also jungs tendency was towards the research of psychospiritual in a level of abstract theorizing and systematizing in such a way that the most important is the subject and not the object. This shouts out loud Ti-Ni, because the main goal being the psychological systematization and the second goal focusing on the unconsciousness of the subject and it's interpretation of the self.

This brings forth two consequences that counterpoint Myers Briggs theory.
The first one and most important is that Auxiliary functions don't need to necessarily be opposed in direction (I/E) because contrary to what it is assumed by Myers Briggs, Carl Jung does exemplify a Ti-Ni development during his life works, and so it is healthy enough. If he wasn´t healthy enough then we would be theorizing about madness right now and we all can somewhat notice his theories lie in the verge of what might be plausible perceptible as attitudes in most people we have dealt with.
This also solves the problem of typing Carl Jung as a INTP or INTJ, when in reality both seem to somewhat point towards the right direction. i would call Jung a Ti Dominant with Ni auxiliary as such.

The second thing is that myers brigss assume Te function is somehow bounded to J dichotomy judging style. Nevertheless this is assumed because it is presumed that the world would perceive just extroverted attitudes in Introverts, leaving INTJ for example to forcibly present Ni-Te, the J indicating that Te is what is perceptible; but by doing this you automatically assume there are no INTP with Ni-Te preference, just because myers briggs said so. This is justified by saying that E/I dichotomies are bounded to J/P preference. Notice that myers brigss say nothing about this assumption (maybe just some circulus in probando). MBTI thus defines INTJ's functions by inference of these both dichomtomies, as opposed to jung's original approach of functional analysis.

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ***************************** (29.2) average use
introverted Sensing (Si) *************************** (27.1) average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************************* (45.4) excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ***************************** (29) average use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************** (20.1) limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************* (37.4) excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************* (20) limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ******************************* (31.2) good use

There's the result.
Seems like Ne is dominant, but also awkwardly Fi is more present then Fe and Se then Si; these both go against both ENTP or INTP. Maybe not so high and since this test lets you judge you can get very subjectified confusing terms.
Anyways probabilistically speaking it would seem rather possible that INTP applies, just from seeing this results
 

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Yes Jung comes to Ni dominance at certain point in his investigation around 1913 when he starts experiencing the collective unconscious and the archetypes, as he realizes the potential of within is starting to overcome his Logical Subjective consistency, and fears turning mad; even so in works before psychological types it is clearly that his tendency is towards Ti, even at the development of his Jungian Typology his first step is differentiating his thinking/ logical judging style from freud's objective point of view. At certain point a couple of year before during his thesis he shows a tendency towards an humanitarian mystical NF, possibly according to Ti dominance an attempt to experience a higher on his inferior Fe, specially because this tendency never appears again in any of his following works.
But this show he had Ti-Ni combo during later works as his main goal is trying to bring into subjective personal understanding his interpretation of psychospiritual beliefs like his work with Richard Wilhelm about the book of Tao.
as you read this you can see thorugh how personalized his thinking style is as well as how his intuition is directed towards the inside. Also in works like Psychology and Alchemy he demonstrates lots of Ti- Ni in the conclusions he arrives at; as you can see his consistency is logical but very subjective such as his language also very personalized.
I could easily make a convincing (to many) argument that he used Ti+Ne, or Ni+Te, or Fi+Ti, or anything else. The problem is, as long as we're using Jung's complex, abstruse function definitions which aren't perfectly differentiated, I believe it's pointless. I think even Jung himself realized that one was already "pushing it" to categorize mental processes the way he did, and thus stuck primarily to the first stage, the supposed dominant functions of individuals.

Jung was brilliant, but he wasn't 100% accurate in his analyses. Someone using his work as a tool won't be 100% accurate in any specific case either. So the deeper you go, the more complex you get, the more inaccurate you're bound to be, if you started off at a reasonable place. Keep it simple(r than Jung did). To do that myself, I'll say your apparent thought processes are well-representative of Jung's Introverted Thinking function. Note that Jung's Ti is not the same as MBTI's Ti. MBTI's Ti is more like Jung's Ni.
 
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