[TheRedKnight]

While I've been content with the INTP personality type for quite some time (with an occasional identity-crisis about whether or not the type fits me enough), I am beginning to question whether or not I actually am one for real. When I think about it, I may have been slightly biased on the last few tests (or maybe I really am an INTP, who knows),

Basically, I require your expertise.

I know for a fact that I am a NT/rational; Ti-Ni-Te-Ne are my four strongest functions - in that very order according to recent tests, yes - and that apparently my Se and Fe are the weakest. The types that I have most commonly received in tests are as following: INTP, INTJ, ENTJ, ISTP, INFP (approximately in that order).

Since no one can always truly rely on those kind of tests, I will just fill out a questionnaire (which is a test, but.. y'know), and afterwards you can judge for yourself and give me your input on the case.

0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
- Not much. I mean, there's some stuff going on with the municipality (and I'm actually going to see a psychologist next week, at the courtesy of the municipality, mainly due to the fact that too many people are "worried" about me at this point), but other than that there's nothing current in my life that is making much of a mess, really.

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/htbnl/13605335484/in/explore-2014-04-03
- Well, the picture contains little to no elements, but it's fascinating to think of the difference it being black and white makes. No idea what else my impression is of it.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?
- My initial thought is most likely: "To think I depended on you, car. To think I depended on you..." and then I will go straight to figuring out how the car went down. During all of that time, I will have a puzzled look on my face that may look slightly sad to others.

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?
- If they are worth it (only a few get the privilege), then I will stay for their sake and join them at the afterparty. I probably won't be there for long though, since I have trouble enjoying parties for more than an hour (although, even an hour seems to be stretching it). At the party, I will most likely dance for a couple of minutes, and then find a decent place to sit down and take a good look around the room, and then create a train of thought of whatever comes to first to mind.

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
- Well, the majority of the time, my inward reaction is something along the lines of "oh shit do I have to" and then I directly look at them just to see if they're serious at first, and if they are I will calmly speak of its inaccuracy, and if they continue to blabber on, like God knows what, I will categorize them as ignorant/less unfortunate. Maybe I will continue to stand for my case/cause, maybe I won't; it usually depends on who the person is, and whether I even deem it worth my time. Also, you know, this isn't really that specific of a question.. like, there's beliefs that can be backed up by scientific or theoretical evidence, or it could be something completely out of the blue. Ah well.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
- That depends a lot on the case. Like, a lot.

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?
- I have three mottos I strive to live by: 1) Gotta do what you gotta do. 2) Instead of pitying me, give me your bloody strength! 3) Gain my trust, and I will consider trusting you in return.

These three will never change. Never. I will never bow down. I may compromise with a few day-to-day things, but these core values are what define who I am.

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?
- A) Personally, I consider myself to be quite the mix of serious cynic, curious philosopher, astute observer and considerate angst-machine.

B) I'd love to be more capable of expressing myself more accurately. As in, being able to make a coherent speech about something and actually make a convincing case. Not all appreciate the constant "and so on and on", "yeah, and so", etc. etc. and it rarely does me any good - at least in my experience.

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?
- I try to make sense of it as quick as possible, and then whether or not I act on them depends on the hunch, really. Not quite sure when they're most triggered... I'm usually either alone and/or thinking about something way off topic, and then it just suddenly pops into my gut.

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
- A) Being right in an argument usually gives me a satisfaction I have to jump up and down to (whether that be internally or externally; all the same). B) Being with people I was not prepared to socialise with. Yep.

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?
- Sometimes I get these huge urges to say something or do something (that I know is straight-out stupid or something of the sort), but I just stop because I can tell that the consequences and the reaction to it will not be, in any way, positive. Meaning I put myself at risk for nothing, and I despise the very idea of that happening tbh.

Any ideas, folks?

(PS: My apologies if I've made any grammar/spelling mistakes; English isn't my first language afterall)

 

[TheRedKnight]

29+ views, yet no one has given me any kind of insight. How disappointing.

In the mean time, I will settle with INTP - I can always describe myself via other means (re: Slytherin, The Secret Weapon, 5w6, etc. etc.) until I am absolutely certain of where I stand.

Still though, you can still give some input. Anything at all, so I can put it into my clockwork and make it spin around and see where it lands.

 

[Reaper]

Besides varying test results, is there any other reason why you doubt you are an INTP?
Such as the "profile" not proving to be a good enough match?

 

[TheRedKnight]

Well, that's the thing, I'm not quite sure whether or not what I see in INTP descriptions are completely accurate for me at this point. I cannot discern between what I actually relate to and descriptions I'm used to seeing and being like "yeah, I guess so".

In the beginning, I only really found myself relating to about 70-75% of what I read about the INTP, and now it's just... messy. Messy and disorganised. Or maybe it's just really simple, and I'm overthinking it.

 

[Reaper]

I think I went through the same kind of process a few months back.

Well, what about other types? Have you read through profiles? Do you consider INTP the best one or are the others?

I'm going to rule out the possibility of you being a sensor. Just don't see it. Same with you being an extrovert. You seem to be at least fairly aware you aren't one (at least, coming from your responses).

The top two types I see for you are either INTP or INTJ.
To be honest, though, I have similar principles to you and similar reactions to things as well (and we also share the same Hogwarts House, and I'm also a "Special Weapon", enneagram type 5w4), but I don't think that could mean anything, because I can also see my ENFP friend relating well to you according to your responses.

Which traits are you most certain of? Introvertedness? Intuition? Thinking?

 

[TheRedKnight]

Oh, trust me, I've read through profiles alright - the INTJ one being very reasonable and fitting.. just as the INTP profile is.

I am definitely most certain of my thinking trait; objectivity is my captain, while intuition is probably my anchor. By the looks of it, my introversion is pretty strong too. Socialising drains me rather quickly.

 

[Reaper]

Does this help at all?

 

[TheRedKnight]

Nope. Unfortunately, the primary parts from both sides apply.

 

[Reaper]

Have you done any reading up on cognitive functions?

 

[TheRedKnight]

Overall, or recently?

Either way, the answer is yes; of course I have. Generally, I score high on both the thinking (Te/Ti) and the intuition (Ne/Ni) functions, meanwhile Se and Fe are always way low, as I have already mentioned. Fi is and always has been stronger than Fe, due to me not willing to compromise for the welfare of others (it is quite the rarity, at least). So, in conclusion: I'm the weakest on the two inferior functions of the INTJ and the INTP.

 

[Reaper]

Do you find that you usually take the time to gather all the information that you can before making judgments/decisions about things or are you more result-driven and immediate in terms of making judgments/decisions?

 

[Ermenegildo]

Shumate, ENFP:
Sometimes an INTJ may resemble an INTP or vice versa because the individual’s Critical Parent function (6th) has “hijacked” the Good Parent function (2nd or auxiliary), to use Bob McAlpine’s phrase. I have noticed that my own Critical Parent (Witch/Senex) archetype can be very loud, and this may enable it to drown out the auxiliary; at least this is my understanding of John Beebe‘s model (but he has not vetted this statement). I believe this can happen to any personality type when stressed.

When this happens to an INTJ, his auxiliary extraverted thinking (Te) Good Parent might be suppressed by his introverted thinking (Ti) Critical Parent. Then it may look as if he is using both Ni and Ti and so one might think he’s an INTP because the Ti Critical Parent seems so prominent. Ti in any position is a kind of hair-splitting function, defining and refining for ever more precision, and when it falls in the 6th position can express as harsh criticism. In this case, the INTJ can appear exasperatingly nit-picky.

Similarly, for an INTP, if the Critical Parent archetype suppresses her auxiliary Good Parent function (Ne), her Ni (6th) might overpower her Ne (2nd), and she may appear to be using both Ti and Ni. Ni is the ‘knowing’ function, the process that intuits the answer without having data for it, and when it appears in the Critical Parent position, it could make the INTP seem arrogantly obstinate about her position.


Hunziker, INTJ:
As we develop our basic dominant and auxiliary type toolkit, usually at an early age, we are also developing their opposite-attitude ‘cousins’ to a lesser degree. A mushroom hunter must not only become familiar with the look of the edible mushrooms he uses, but also of the similar-looking toxic ones that he doesn’t, in order to tell them apart. Similarly, we must develop both extraverted thinking (Te) and introverted thinking (Ti), for example, up to the point where we are able to see the difference and determine which one works best for us—our natural preference. So an INTJ with auxiliary Te will also have some ability to engage her Ti sixth function. Most will have a well-developed, well differentiated auxiliary Te. But some INTJs appear to develop both Te and Ti without ever really separating the two. This may lead to a ‘muddy,’ not very effective, concurrent use of the function in both attitudes. This tandem early development of the opposite-attitude cousins or our preferred functions seems a likely source for the problem of J/P confusion.

(Source: see below)

You could identify with the INTJ type for some time und find out whether you prefer it to the INTP type, slowly learning more about Tx and Nx and their order.

If you are really curious you might take into consideration that you are a special case that doesn’t (easily) fit the MBTI system because your first two functions are both introverted:

Douglass J. Wilde (Stanford): INTJ or INTP? Both!

Quantitative analysis [9] of the MBTI® scores shows that the answer to the question “Is it INTJ or INTP?” is — BOTH! This is because when the J/P score is less than the I score, as seems to be assumed in this discussion, the type is “doubly-introverted”, as proven rigorously in pp. 67-9 of Wilde, D. J. (2011) “Jung’s personality theory quantified”, Springer, London, subsequently referred to as “JPTQ”. Consequently it has dominant and auxiliary attitudes that are BOTH introverted. The “doubleversion” phenomenon has been noted previously by (June) Singer and Loomis, Spoto, and Geldart.

For INTj, (here the “j” is lower case to emphasize its smallness) introverted (not extraverted) thinking Ti is thus in the second “good parent” position rather than in the sixth “critical parent” position where Te truly resides. So Ti is not “hijacking” Te; the confusion comes from using conventional “type dynamics” (TD) theory instead analyzing quantitatively.

Disturbingly for MBTI® practitioners, quantitative theory contradicts TD’s “attitude balance” rule that the auxiliary attitude must differ from that of the dominant, which for INTj would have extraverted thinking Te auxiliary to contrast with the dominant Ni. It happens however that Te is in this case a third “subsidiary” function-attitude (hereafter called “(cognitive) mode” to avoid confusion with the previously defined words “function” and “attitude”). The two subsidiary modes, which complete the quartet formulated by Jung, are overlooked by TD’s consideration of only the dominant and auxiliary modes. For INTj, the second subsidiary mode Ne will usually have a negligible “slight” score less than 20% (6 out of MBTI®’s possible 30).
Mark, your discussion makes you sound like a double-introvert. Send me your MBTI® scores and I’ll unpack them to obtain your mode scores. You’re in for another surprise if your T score exceeds your N score, contradicting another unreliable TD assumption.

If you would like a feel of the arithmetic before tackling the rigorous JPTQ book, here is a “packing table” showing the cognitive mode scores for a set of INTj scores reasonably describing the situation at hand. The questionnaire scores 60%I, 60%N, 60%T, 20%j “unpack” into the mode scores 50%Ni, 40%Ti, 20%Te, 10%Ne. Each row gives the score points generated for each questionnaire variable by the row’s mode. The column sums then match the questionnaire scores, PROVING the correctness of the transformation of questionnaire scores into mode scores.

The mode scores show why the personality description for INTj should involve both INTJ and INTP type table descriptions. The INTJ description combines those for the Ni and Te mode descriptions; INTP, for Ti and Ne. A crude way of understanding the distribution of emphasis is given by averaging the questionnaire scores to obtain 50% for INTJ and 40% for INTP – almost equal. Thus INTj can be seen as “bi-typal”, to coin an uncomfortable new word.

To keep this note from being too upsettingly long, discussion of the subsidiary modes, which seem to drift into the shadow, will be withheld until you ask for it.
INTj PACKING TABLE

Mode Mode P-mode 60%I 60%N 60%T 20%J
identification scores or J-mode?
Dominant 50%Ni J 50i 50n 50j
Auxiliary 40%Ti P 40i 40t -40j
Dominant subsidiary 10%Ne P -10i 10n -10j
Auxiliary subsidiary 20%Te J -20i 20t 20j
Check: algebraic sum - - 60i 60n 60t 20j

Question of the Day: INTJ or INTP?

Don't take the four letters too serious, go as you please ...

INTJ: Lord keep me open to others' ideas, WRONG though they may be.

INTP: Lord help me be less independent, but let me do it my way.

ENTP: Lord help me follow established procedures today. On second thought, I'll settle for a few minutes.

ENTJ: Lord, help me slow downandnotrushthroughwatIdo.

Amen.

Prayer for Myers Briggs Types