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Discussion Starter #1
I'm pretty sure my mum who is 60+ is actually an INTP but the test score says ISFJ.

I get that it may be that she's always seen herself as polar opposite to my father who is ENTJ, having to fill in for all his short comings forces her to develop unnatural skills for her type maybe? Or is it because she's completely crushed and stress is a way of life and she operates in her shadow type 24/7 for decades now.

she's very passive, she can stop thinking. probably type 9w1 but not sure.

what do you guys think as it's quite perplexing.
 

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I don't know your mom, but I don't think an INTP would allow himself or herself to live like that. Certainly not for decades. ISFJ's are natural born slaves though. They live to serve others.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I don't know your mom, but I don't think an INTP would allow himself or herself to live like that. Certainly not for decades. ISFJ's are natural born slaves though. They live to serve others.
I don't think personality type matters when it comes to living crushed. Particularly if it's by a charismatic cult leader type who "gets things done" and you have everybody tell you how lucky you are to be married to him your whole life. Plus that generation don't divorce here. Not when you're that religious.

It's just she has zero Se too. although maybe she keeps it secret. I have found her secretly keeping birthday cards for decades if they have nice personal things written in them. It's just most of the time ISFJ's are so "personable" they get mistaken for extroverts and get home and go... "Help... I accidentally committed us to 53 social engagements". My mum is so anti social. She doesn't offer to get involved in anything and nobody talks to her, and she's quite happy to go without anybody talking to her for ages. Which is so opposite to Mrs.Knifey, although she's a type2 so likes to help.
 

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I had a crushing and charismatic father, but I left as soon as I could legally live on my own (my 16th birthday). I agree with @OneMind that an INTP is fairly unlikely to stick around for abuse, but I can also see how an old-fashioned religious woman--of any type--might stay with her husband for decades. Things have changed now, but in the time and place where I grew up, people just didn't divorce. I think a lot of younger people find this hard to imagine. My own mother died of cancer in her 40s, and I think being married to my father was a contributing factor.

When I was 44 I did the test with an MBTI certified person in a career counseling context; I had never heard of MBTI before. I tested as INTP. I got only 1% on P, and I've become even more J in the intervening years. I'm 65 now, and when I do the online tests I end up with many different results--sometimes J, sometimes S, I think even F sometimes (but never E). I think it's because I've learned to develop or use some of my weaker qualities. I'm still an INTP though.
 

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I think it's an issue with the broadness of the test, because I've met a lot of ISFJs who resemble INTPs in certain ways... and from the perspective of mbti model it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I can see a somewhat down-to-earth and Fe aware INTP as conceding to an an outlook about themselves that may not be exactly true about themselves. For instance, it can seem more rational to answer towards "S" practicality and certainty, so you can mark things that seem more "correct" in some sense, whereby an N motivation or way of thinking could still lead to a type of behavior... or the way of justifying the thought is spun backwards in some sense.

I guess a simpler way of describing it is the S traits are identified more with their T inclinations, and the F traits are identified more with their N inclinations.


---------- Sorry, I actually meant INFPs instead of INFJs. My bad. Yeah an INTP resembling an INFJ... from my perspective too difficult to imagine. The Pness is too overwhelming.
 
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When I was 44 I did the test with an MBTI certified person; I had never heard of MBTI before. I tested as INTP. I got only 1% on P, and I've become even more J in the intervening years. I'm 65 now, and when I do the online tests I end up with many different results--sometimes J, sometimes S, I think even F sometimes (but never E). I think it's because I've learned to develop or use some of my weaker qualities. I'm still an INTP though.
(Warning: INTP rant ahead. Too long; didn't proofread. Honestly, I think I lack the ability to do so.)

I'm not really sure about the credibility of online tests. I've taken a lot of them and even though I always tested as INTP, I started to notice major differences in how the tests were made. Some of the tests assessed behaviour more than the way I think while some were more focused on my thought processes. I found some misleading because the way they were phrased was encouraging me to answer in a way I would like myself to be. Some were even hard to answer because they asked for real events that depend on a lot of external factors (statements like "People often come to me for advice"; it probably wasn't this exact one, though, I've got a terrible memory when it comes to details) - why would that even be in a test that's meant to measure your base personality type, something that shouldn't depend on the way you live?
I've gone off on a tangent (again), let's go back to the point I originally wanted to make. I think all the mistyping could indeed be related to developing your weaker qualities. In fact, if you believe in cognitive functions (apparently, many supporters of the MBTI don't), the theory states that they develop throughout your life - the dominant being the first one to surface, followed by the auxiliary (usually in adolescence to early adulthood) and then later in life you develop the tertiary and the inferior one. That development sort of "unlocks" new behaviours and I can see how that could affect the results of an online test, especially one that is focused solely on assessing the behaviours themselves. In addition, our world was pretty much built for SJs - the practicality and ability to live in the moment of a Sensing type and the ability to create and stick to schedules and routines of a Judging type are very important qualities. They can be learned (even though they will never come as naturally to an NP as they do to an SJ). Then again, if a test measures these (often learned) behaviours rather than one's natural thought processes, it's easy to mistype.
In conclusion: if you're sure you're an INTP, that's probably the truth. After all, you know better than anyone what's going on inside your head :)
 

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In addition, our world was pretty much built for SJs - the practicality and ability to live in the moment of a Sensing type and the ability to create and stick to schedules and routines of a Judging type are very important qualities. They can be learned (even though they will never come as naturally to an NP as they do to an SJ).
Yes, I suffered and failed a lot in my life, partly because of my type I guess. My life was crazy.

At around age 50 I learned to commit to a plan and organize myself accordingly. It was not easy! For example, I did lots of research on dealing with procrastination, and I tried different things and made charts and so on until I figured out how to accomplish what I needed to. I'm still a slowpoke and an underachiever, but I hold things together well enough to get by.

As for sensing, for many years I drove myself crazy by not living in the moment, and now I've learned to relax and focus on today. Most of this I learned from 12-Step meetings, and it wasn't easy at all. Of course I'm still not really a sensor, but I've stopped trying to figure everything out and worrying about everything like I used to.
 

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Isfj and intp have the same function stack, but in different order. My wife is an isfj, so we are both fe, ne, si, and ti users.
That said, we see almost everything differently from each other, yet react very similarly. It's kind of strange, but that's the best way I can describe it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I think it's an issue with the broadness of the test, because I've met a lot of ISFJs who resemble INTPs in certain ways... and from the perspective of mbti model it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I can see a somewhat down-to-earth and Fe aware INTP as conceding to an an outlook about themselves that may not be exactly true about themselves. For instance, it can seem more rational to answer towards "S" practicality and certainty, so you can mark things that seem more "correct" in some sense, whereby an N motivation or way of thinking could still lead to a type of behavior... or the way of justifying the thought is spun backwards in some sense.

I guess a simpler way of describing it is the S traits are identified more with their T inclinations, and the F traits are identified more with their N inclinations.
I'm thinking that an ENTJ is always dreaming up the next big thing, and that means there's no time for your dreams. So you need to run around after kids and do all the menial work and be the backup singer for the main vocalist. So to survive you tell yourself them you get something out of it, like an ISFJ does get something out of it. Also running a family you have to organise everything, she makes lists a lot. A P has to make lists to get anything done, working to a list is the only way to stay focused. I don't know why a J would need to be so rigid and disciplined, their brain is already inflexible.

Isfj and intp have the same function stack, but in different order. My wife is an isfj, so we are both fe, ne, si, and ti users.
That said, we see almost everything differently from each other, yet react very similarly. It's kind of strange, but that's the best way I can describe it.
I do understand, as I also married an isfj and am intp. I think most intp's marry isfj's lmao...

As for sensing, for many years I drove myself crazy by not living in the moment, and now I've learned to relax and focus on today. Most of this I learned from 12-Step meetings, and it wasn't easy at all. Of course I'm still not really a sensor, but I've stopped trying to figure everything out and worrying about everything like I used to.
I guess i spent too many years in that nihilistic depression INTP's get. I guess nihilism is also not living in the present, it's just not living in the future either though.
 

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I think there are some ISFJs in here who mistyped As INTP, due to the typist shaming of Sensors as traditionalist scum. They’re no such thing.

I think a few geniuses often typed as INTP are actually ISFJ 5w4s .

We need to consider the Animus of an ISFJ is an ENTP. And over time, they will start practice their inferior functions well and that can be an intimidating and overwhelming practice of intellectual power to rival their XNTP compadres.

while we become softer and softer with our development of inferior Fe, becoming easy targets for competition.
 

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INTPs can't make themselves ISFJs. They can fake ISTJ at best, but being ISFJ for decades would be next to impossible. The level of thought and manipulation on every action would be a large load. She would be on the verge of a breakdown after many years. Though people go through natural changes in life that also affect their total load. E.g. if she is stressed menopause could be another option.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
INTPs can't make themselves ISFJs. They can fake ISTJ at best, but being ISFJ for decades would be next to impossible. The level of thought and manipulation on every action would be a large load. She would be on the verge of a breakdown after many years. Though people go through natural changes in life that also affect their total load. E.g. if she is stressed menopause could be another option.
ha... menopause. I forget most women go through it near that age and not decades earlier. Seeing her in a melt down wasn't weird growing up. She would basically "snap" and become nihilistic, go to bed for a few days, and then sometimes if she didn't snap out of it and get back to being what she was "supposed to be", she would be shipped off for a solo holiday. She seemed to have a major breakdown every 5ish years, and a mini one every 18-24 months.
 

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ha... menopause. I forget most women go through it near that age and not decades earlier. Seeing her in a melt down wasn't weird growing up. She would basically "snap" and become nihilistic, go to bed for a few days, and then sometimes if she didn't snap out of it and get back to being what she was "supposed to be", she would be shipped off for a solo holiday. She seemed to have a major breakdown every 5ish years, and a mini one every 18-24 months.
Sounds like a tough life for all. :blushed:
 

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She seemed to have a major breakdown every 5ish years, and a mini one every 18-24 months.
Ha, sounds like me. But menopause actually put an end to all that. I guess the hormones were driving me crazy from about age 12 to age 50, although I wasn't aware of it at the time. I thought it was "just me," or else I blamed the world.

For the record, average age for menopause for women in the US is 51; most have it between ages 48 and 55. Menopause was a breeze for me; it isn't necessarily a time of crisis.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ha, sounds like me. But menopause actually put an end to all that. I guess the hormones were driving me crazy from about age 12 to age 50, although I wasn't aware of it at the time. I thought it was "just me," or else I blamed the world.

For the record, average age for menopause for women in the US is 51; most have it between ages 48 and 55. Menopause was a breeze for me; it isn't necessarily a time of crisis.
There is this thing only discovered in the 90's called fragile x, and kids with it get diagnosed as aspies and women who carry it go through puberty super late and menopause super early. like 17-40
 

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With the same functions in a different order, I think that the lower functions would be more developed in life. And it's hard to peg down someone's type on the first try.

My earlier typing experiences revolve around confusion of which functions are lower, which are higher. Knowing that I value fe, but a matter of what level it's on. And big 5 agreeableness and my ennea plays a huge role too.

When it comes to this type of scenario, I think more of my IRL friend than me. It would be a little different with him than someone in their 40s or 50s, or 60s, because he's in his early 20s. I thought an NP type for him before he took MBTI. Well, I assumed NFP for him if anything. With his creativity style, humor, and interests, I assumed higher ne for him. When he took MBTI, he tested as ISFJ.

Thinking deeper into it, si is visible, because he gets wrapped up in his routines. Tertiary si or inferior si can rear it's head in ways like this with my experience, and other NP types. But I still think that his ne is very big for being an inferior function. It could simply be all four functions are equally developed.
 

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ISFJs (si -fe-ti-ne) and INTPs (ti-ne-si-fe) share all functions and could easily mistype especially when they’re in a similar Dom-Tert loop.
 
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