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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I know this is a HUGE post but please help me :crying:!

I've been reading about abandonment issues for the past month or so and every time I read an article, I always agree with more than half of the symptoms displayed on the page. Scared of intimacy, fear of being left alone in friendships, low self-esteem, self-depreciation, heightened emotional sensitivity etc. I've always thought I had abandonment issues since I was 11 or 12 years old.

All through childhood, my mother would always put other people's needs in front of mine, my dad was always seen as more important in family conversations and whenever I gave input, it would get shot down by my mother. Many times when I asked a question, it would get ignored by my mother who would immediately talk to my dad about something that popped into her mind. I did not get the respect I deserved. She would belittle me on every homework mistake I made: "You're useless! You can't do anything! You're terrible! You're stupid! Go to die! You're crazy (when I did things a different way from the established method.)" Ridiculous high standards from her, I had to do extra homework for every mistake I made.

I didn't get the attention that I required. When I was 9 years old, my mother promised me that after my sister was born, I would be more important than her because I was older. So I built up so much hope in myself through those 9 months knowing that I'd finally get the attention I needed. But this never happened, my sister got more attention than me (I understand now, because she was a baby.) but to my 9-year-old self, I felt a deep sense of loss as this was a sign of not being worthy enough, being neglected and disliked.

Other people's children would be seen as more important by my mother and she would always attend to their needs first before her own child (Do all ENFJs do this??). I would always get the blame for her uncontrollable emotions of anger, upset etc, even when it wasn't my fault. Bad things that other children did, e.g. When I was 6, my cousin who was 3 years older than me broke a chair at a restaurant and I got scolded for it :crying: Yet, she was at the scene (Do ENFJs do this?) My cousin *fake sneezed* out soda and the liquid went everywhere and he did not get scolded by her, I then followed what he did and got a 20 minute row! Getting blamed for all the bad things + behaviour of my friends when they came over to the house.

There's more but I'm going to leave it at that, on top of that there was being excluded by so many people at elementary school and only having one friend who after 5 years suddenly abandoned me for other friends.

How can I start healing from all of this when I don't even understand why this happened to me in the first place?

I have asked her why she did these certain things several times when I was a child and she never gave a proper response, just the usual: "because I did." I asked her last year, when I was 17, why she did this to me as a child, and she said she didn't do it??!! She says she forgot??!! What does that even mean?
 

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I think this has less to do with type and more to do with your Mother being a maladjusted/unstable person. I see some similarities between our lives, my Mother IS a maladjusted person also trying to cope with all the circumstances in her life she had no control over. Her Mother was also not exactly the poster child for being an amazing person, although I did love my Grandmother very much and she tried her best to deal with the life circumstances she was handed as well.

I don't exactly know what to tell you to rectify the outcome of these life circumstances for you. I also can't give you advice on things I don't do because it would be dishonest and if I knew a better way I would be utilizing it.

All I do is try my best to not replicate the undesirable behavior that left a lasting impact on me, and I am focusing on loving myself. Every aspect of myself, from my personality to my outer appearance. I have accepted that what happened to me won't change and if I were to go back and change even the least bothersome situations, I know I would risk changing who I am. So, despite all the truly messed up shit I have been through, I no longer wonder about "what ifs"... Okay, that is a bit of an exaggeration. I still do wonder "what if" but only to a certain extent, once I start to feel bad for myself I refuse to allow myself to stay in that mindset. I can't change it, no matter how long I reflect on it and no matter how badly I want to change it.

I also have started to let it go, not exactly forgive and forget. I will never forget, I have learned this from suppressed memories resurfacing recently. As for forgive, I have and I haven't and that's probably why I am still stuck on certain aspects of my past and I realize that. All I can do is base today and tomorrow on their actions today and tomorrow.

My Mother is much better now, she is still far from perfect but both of my parents are certainly trying their hardest to make up for the past. I think that matters much more. Some people will hurt you and they will never care about fixing that.

I hope you soon begin to find some reprieve, maybe speaking with professionals until you find one that you click with would help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I think this has less to do with type and more to do with your Mother being a maladjusted/unstable person. I see some similarities between our lives, my Mother IS a maladjusted person also trying to cope with all the circumstances in her life she had no control over. Her Mother was also not exactly the poster child for being an amazing person, although I did love my Grandmother very much and she tried her best to deal with the life circumstances she was handed as well.

I don't exactly know what to tell you to rectify the outcome of these life circumstances for you. I also can't give you advice on things I don't do because it would be dishonest and if I knew a better way I would be utilizing it.

All I do is try my best to not replicate the undesirable behavior that left a lasting impact on me, and I am focusing on loving myself. Every aspect of myself, from my personality to my outer appearance. I have accepted that what happened to me won't change and if I were to go back and change even the least bothersome situations, I know I would risk changing who I am. So, despite all the truly messed up shit I have been through, I no longer wonder about "what ifs"... Okay, that is a bit of an exaggeration. I still do wonder "what if" but only to a certain extent, once I start to feel bad for myself I refuse to allow myself to stay in that mindset. I can't change it, no matter how long I reflect on it and no matter how badly I want to change it.

I also have started to let it go, not exactly forgive and forget. I will never forget, I have learned this from suppressed memories resurfacing recently. As for forgive, I have and I haven't and that's probably why I am still stuck on certain aspects of my past and I realize that. All I can do is base today and tomorrow on their actions today and tomorrow.

My Mother is much better now, she is still far from perfect but both of my parents are certainly trying their hardest to make up for the past. I think that matters much more. Some people will hurt you and they will never care about fixing that.

I hope you soon begin to find some reprieve, maybe speaking with professionals until you find one that you click with would help.
Thank you so much for your words! Although, I think my situation has worsened a lot since childhood, with her saying she hates me and never wants to see me ever again etc, still favouring my sister over me (it's become a lot more apparent now). Thanks for the advice again, I think I'll go see a therapist.
 

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Thank you so much for your words! Although, I think my situation has worsened a lot since childhood, with her saying she hates me and never wants to see me ever again etc, still favouring my sister over me (it's become a lot more apparent now). Thanks for the advice again, I think I'll go see a therapist.
Wow, I am sorry you have to deal with such a terrible example of a Mother. My parents have both said terrible things to me but at least now they are trying their best.

I hope you can escape this situation soon enough.
 

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Thank you so much for your words! Although, I think my situation has worsened a lot since childhood, with her saying she hates me and never wants to see me ever again etc, still favouring my sister over me (it's become a lot more apparent now). Thanks for the advice again, I think I'll go see a therapist.
I can't say much, but I have a friend who was in a similar situation. But after she found a job and moved away from her mother and found another community she thought she belonged it, she adapted much better. You mentioned you are still quite young, but maybe once you have a job and can afford to move away from the toxicity, maybe you will be able to heal and think back on why she did those things easier. It's much harder to see when she's still all up in your face and yelling and screaming at you all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I can't say much, but I have a friend who was in a similar situation. But after she found a job and moved away from her mother and found another community she thought she belonged it, she adapted much better. You mentioned you are still quite young, but maybe once you have a job and can afford to move away from the toxicity, maybe you will be able to heal and think back on why she did those things easier. It's much harder to see when she's still all up in your face and yelling and screaming at you all the time.
Thanks! Yeah, I'm thinking of getting a job and saving up to move into a small flat. And hopefully in the future, move to a different country entirely. I've also had friends who have similar family issues, one of my high school friends self-harms as she has to take care of her down-syndrome brother and her parents are alcoholics. Another has mental health issues and she has to be hospitalised every few months.
 

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Thanks! Yeah, I'm thinking of getting a job and saving up to move into a small flat. And hopefully in the future, move to a different country entirely. I've also had friends who have similar family issues, one of my high school friends self-harms as she has to take care of her down-syndrome brother and her parents are alcoholics. Another has mental health issues and she has to be hospitalised every few months.
Yeah, I mean, don't read too much into the attachment articles, because it'll just bring you down and you start to actually believe in everything it says. We can't choose our parents, but we can choose our friends and who we want to be with in the future. Well, you did find this forum, so it's already a step in the right direction of finding a group who understands you and where you belong. Maybe in the future you can find a even better group of people to surround yourself with. People like to always say that family ties/blood are always thicker. But you know what? That's a myth. Like you said, your friends have problems, and I'm sure everyone has some form of problems or troubles with their family - so don't think that your problems are the worst. You can get through this.
 

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"You can get through this"
I echo this times a million. I am here as well as a survivor of many things including mental illness. If you ever feel like your circumstances are too much you can message me at any time (I hardly sleep so that's a positive for that situation) and I will do everything in my power to help you. You just have to trust my experiences because I know, 100% I understand.
If you ever want to hear my experiences as well so you can feel more comfortable I am okay with that via messaging.
 

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Look up "narcissistic personality disorder: parents"

Your mother is mentally unstable and making you out to be a punching bag is one of her tactics. There's really nothing more to it than that. Your mother is a narcissist and you were just unlucky enough to have been birthed by her.

I have one, too. But I was seen as more of the "Golden child." This doesn't mean I was treated well. I was just treated better than my sibling, which really infurated me.



(edit) here are the videos. Honestly if I ever talked to my mother the way this girl did in the second video she would have slapped the shit out of me, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Look up "narcissistic personality disorder: parents"

Your mother is mentally unstable and making you out to be a punching bag is one of her tactics. There's really nothing more to it than that. Your mother is a narcissist and you were just unlucky enough to have been birthed by her.

I have one, too. But I was seen as more of the "Golden child." This doesn't mean I was treated well. I was just treated better than my sibling, which really infurated me.



(edit) here are the videos. Honestly if I ever talked to my mother the way this girl did in the second video she would have slapped the shit out of me, lol.
Ok, those videos really resonate with what I'm experiencing. I've also been treated like this by my Gran every few years that we go to visit her in another country.
 

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Ok, those videos really resonate with what I'm experiencing. I've also been treated like this by my Gran every few years that we go to visit her in another country.
I'm really sorry you're experiencing this. But the key to moving on from this is by understanding why it's happening. Once you are able to understand why it's happening, you'll be able to see that it has nothing to do with YOU, but instead it has everything to do with the bad intentions of your family members. We as INTP's already feel closed off and weird in our own way, but don't allow your mother or whoever else may be hurting you to skew your perception of how people are in real life. Not everyone wants to abandon you. Not everyone wants to hurt you. I know it may seem that way. But that's not the case.

There are many videos like this on YouTube that I'm sure you'd find some real comfort in, so don't ever feel alone in this.
 

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Your mother is most likely an ESFJ, and not an ENFJ.

I also believe she has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, with a possibility of Borderline or Bipolar as well. There's a whole reddit community devoted to helping people like you with these issues. Because I don't have 15 posts yet, it won't let me posts links, but if you search google for the raisedbynarcissists forum on reddit, it should direct you there. Similarly, search for "parrishmiller" "description of female narcissist mother"

Sorry it sounds like you are being raised as the scapegoat. I believe ESFJ mothers are prone to these particular personality disorders; not sure why. I was raised by one as well. if you're able to cut all ties with her, it should really help your well being.
 

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Your mother is most likely an ESFJ, and not an ENFJ.
Definitely an ENFJ. A troubled one, of course, with their classic mechanism of splitting - where their enormous tendency to idealize and be idealized is not met, so they will localize their idealization to certain people while picking (usually) ONE person to channel all of their bad feelings. Usually a family member, usually a kid, of their own. Whose vulnerability and inevitably unconditional love will force them to withstand this abuse. ESFJ mechanisms are usually not this elaborate, split, and hierarchical.
Their mechanism tends to be more outright hysteric, disorganized.
 

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@Airess3

*Virtual hug.*
*Hot chocolate? With marshmallows.. Fluffy kittens on your lap. Stuffed bunnies by your side. 17 of them. More chocolate.*
*Still hasn't let go of the above hug.*

Click the "spoiler" button below when you are done with the virtual cacao therapy and bunnies.

 


Hi :)


Not all ENFJs, Airess3, not all. And you will meet many wonderful NFJs in your life, they will love you and shower you with their incredible warmth.

Sorry to hear what you have gone through, you've come a long way to be able to put this together and be able to talk to others. I would be nice to talk to a therapist, find someone good, warm, and understanding.

As you are already making connections now, your mother also had a parent who did something similar to her. Yes, MBTI has something to do with the expression of pathology, but not the level of pathology itself. No one MBTI is healthier than the other, you see, it is no measure for maturity and health. And she does seem to have personality/character disorders, but what do they even mean anyway, each situation is just so unique and god so painful. But being the INTPs that we are, we'd try to learn about this as much as we can, wouldn't we :)?

I did that too. It worked and it didn't. But your effort to try to understand this from as diverse angles as possible is a very good thing. You are off to a good start, and things will only get better now that you've began to really look into this.

I will talk in simple matters, you are free to ask me anything more you'd like to know.

As you've noticed already, she's also had some trauma from her own parents. I don't know the details of it, but probably something similar with a twist, feelings of belittlement, disappointments, and shame.

ENFJs usually have a big heart, and they tend to idealize things and be idealized. Everyone - every MBTI type - will eventually face some kind of failure and/or disappointment in trying to hold their ideals, and mature people deal with these disappointments and look beyond, try to learn and grow from it. People who can't, they are simply unable to deal with this hurtful feelings - sadness, anger, disappointment, frustration, etc.

Say an INTP had pent up anger, we would rationalize/intellectualize the hell out of stuff, be emotionally retarded jerks, etc.

ENFJs, a pattern I have noticed (closely), they still are nice to others (like, fucking, everyone) and still fulfill that "helper," "idealized/ all good person" role. But they (like every human) has negative feelings too, but they don't know how to channel that in an healthy manner. So what comes with this "dramatic idealization" is the flip side, picking a person to put all their "bad sides" and emotions ..
And usually, the easiest target, is someone closest to them. Someone they know they can hurt every time, someone they know will not leave them despite such abuse.. Someone this hopelessly and blindly in love with them - is often their own child. An emotionally sensitive and mature one too, who will be hurt and react with pain every single time..
INTPs are emotionally sensitive. We suck and showing them, but we do love, love unconditionally, especially when it's our parents.

A child is vulnerable not only because s/he is physically small and weak, but because they unconditionally love their parents.. We don't know to not love them, so we keep being affected. In our love lies our greatest vulnerability for these kind of abuse..

So we become the easiest target. We love and love and love unconditionally, and because we love, we hope. We keep hoping. And the cruelest thing of all, they know to play with this hope, but it is fulfilling their some need and trauma on a different level..

A lot of this also involves the crazy, disorganized, unconscious side, too. Does she also have "distorted memories" or "forgotten memories" as well, if you try to talk to her/ make her face these horrible memories?
If she does, it is because consciously, she also loves you as you are her child, etc., but all her trauma and scars from the past are so painful to deal with, she is (or her "trauma" is) desperately looking for every expression to be let out and hurt you. When her actions are this split, denial is commonly accompanied. Some of these things are so illogical, hurtful and wrong that she can't sometimes fully admit/grasp what happened, and wishes to look away from this. Hence the distortion, and denial. And you are left feeling - wtf.. you mean I'm hurt for nothing? What about me, all these scars and bruises? There is a victim - I'm broken into pieces - and no memory of abuse? Where are all my scars from then..!?

Wtf. Right? Memories and experiences between two people. If she "forgets" then what about all this pain. It is so incredibly unfair, and you are right to feel really really angry and confused!


Here. This might be a little hard for you to understand now, but with time, I know you will get there:

When she says those horrible things - "You are stupid!" etc.
These are things she also heard in some form another from her parents. She is not projecting her bad sides and bad feelings to you, because they are so painful.

She makes you crave for that attention, because she also grew up deprived.

She then gives you this hope that "you will be more important in 9 months" then fails you. That painful fall, that disappointment .. it is sometimes more painful than the flat state of no hope .. isn't it. That manipulative play of hope, is also from something she experienced. As a sensitive, big-hearted, yet traumatized ENFJ, your mother surely experienced these "spark of hope + disappointment" cycles.

Her clearly unfair behaviors - "they can but you can't," and "they are fine but you are horrible" shit, is also due to the mechanism of "splitting" the good and bad I mentioned above. I want to be all-good, I want you to be all-bad, that kind of thing. Good kid & bad kid, better kid & worse kid - I bet she is constantly doing this to you. Also that fake "hierarchy" she creates is a classic fucked up NFJ mechanism.

So, SOOO.. unfair, right? It makes no sense to us (esp.) NTs. No logic, warped values, false accusations, distorted memories. It slowly kills us. We can't fight it with logic, and we are constantly lost. We just sit there and silently cry, picking up pieces of this horribly reality that makes no sense, left with nothing to defend ourselves with.

I've written out some things to give you a glance at what might be going on with her ridiculous behavior, but let me make myself clear that it is not at all in her defense. Just trying to help give a clearer view of the situation.

My advice is same as others, move away this toxicity as early as you can, and invest in making good friends who will hold you, love you, value you and reassure you over and over.

But one thing, and I know this does not work quickly or act like magic, but try your best to say this to yourself -

I'm not a bad person.
I am not a bad person for having these (you name it! all the negative feelings you rightfully have towards her!) feelings.
"I'm not a bad person for feeling this anger and hatred towards her."
It is only right that you feel those things :) Do not ever blame your feelings, no matter how scary they seem. Do this for me :)?

Children will always blame themselves for not being loved, and for their parents' unhappiness.

They should not, because it is the least their fault. Children are perfect the way they are, and their only sin is their unconditional love towards their parents, which is no sin at all.

You are now starting to understand where things come from. If anything, you were so nice and sensitive and loving that you became a target. Do not ever think that - if I did A, B, and/or C, would she have been nice to me? Nope. Never, because it's her problems played out on you. You were (and still are) that perfect, sweet, loving child. Don't forget this?

Just knowing the facts won't "cure" you like magic. It takes some time for this logic to hit your emotions. So you will slowly figure this out, face your emotions, hopefully with a very warm and supportive therapist, and rebuild your life. You are very young and smart, you will start to heal - in fact, you've already started the process.

Protect and value your self and tell yourself good things over and over like a prayer. Trust me you will get there.




Another hot chocolate ;)?


 

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At some extend I think you are looking for someone to blame for your life turning out not the way you expected it to be but know that its really hard for every one of us here (that's why we aren't jerking on fb)
 

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At some extend I think you are looking for someone to blame for your life turning out not the way you expected it to be but know that its really hard for every one of us here (that's why we aren't jerking on fb)
To some extent I think you're providing input on a situation you have little experience with. Have you ever had a narcissist as a parent? If you have I'm surprised by your bitter assumption that she's just looking for someone to blame.

I know we can be a little cold, but let's try to think before we project our own assumptions onto other people. Especially on this thread.
 

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To some extent I think you're providing input on a situation you have little experience with. Have you ever had a narcissist as a parent? If you have I'm surprised by your bitter assumption that she's just looking for someone to blame.

I know we can be a little cold, but let's try to think before we project our own assumptions onto other people. Especially on this thread.
Yes I have actually but I had friends growing up so I didn't have to face her going all black sheep on me..also nice avatar I guess you're an ESFP :p
 

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Narcissistic Personality Disorder is an actual, clinical condition. It's not the same as calling someone a 'narcissist' because they enjoy looking in a mirror or taking some selfies. People with this condition do horrible things to their children; you may want to actually read the wiki page on the disorder before insulting the original poster.
 
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