[noosabar]

I am a 36yr old male, my father is an ISTJ.

My father was a commanding officer in the Australian army, extremely regimented, 100% back and white.

I know he tries to communicate with me but its such an awkward thing to do, very rarely do we get past the weather. I dont understand his regimented black and white, uncompromising opinions. He is also very intolerant of of different ethnicities, and homosexuals which grates on me to the extreme. I think it comes from his service in the military and time in Vietnam.
He persistantly tries to push me and otherfamily members in the direction of military service, an institution I strongly oppose.
I think he completely lacks the ability to recognise that as individuals we develop our own morals and ethics, and that we posess different skill sets. He constantly draws copmarisons between myself and other more successful ( mainly servicemen ) members of the extended family and family friends.
Being a child of a serviceman we moved around constantly and myself, and my sisters never aquired the ability to establish stong friendships. Both my sisters are older and none of us have long standing relations with peers.
My question is how do I go about finding a common ground with my dad, Im quite happy not having contact with him however I think it may be something I regret later.

 

[scarygirl]

I am a 36yr old male, my father is an ISTJ.

My father was a commanding officer in the Australian army, extremely regimented, 100% back and white.

I know he tries to communicate with me but its such an awkward thing to do, very rarely do we get past the weather. I dont understand his regimented black and white, uncompromising opinions. He is also very intolerant of of different ethnicities, and homosexuals which grates on me to the extreme. I think it comes from his service in the military and time in Vietnam.
He persistantly tries to push me and otherfamily members in the direction of military service, an institution I strongly oppose.
I think he completely lacks the ability to recognise that as individuals we develop our own morals and ethics, and that we posess different skill sets. He constantly draws copmarisons between myself and other more successful ( mainly servicemen ) members of the extended family and family friends.
Being a child of a serviceman we moved around constantly and myself, and my sisters never aquired the ability to establish stong friendships. Both my sisters are older and none of us have long standing relations with peers.
My question is how do I go about finding a common ground with my dad, Im quite happy not having contact with him however I think it may be something I regret later.

I was thinking of the same thing, I'm an INFP with T tendences (more in the past than now) and I have too a very awkward and bad relationship with my ISTJ father. However, there's things about him that make him attractive, like being very tough-minded at times...but in a complete different fashion than mine.
You're better than him, always have that in check. You have 3 letters in common with Camille Paglia, that'll make me happy. xDD
Don't die in hate, but let the man do his thing and do yours. Never become like him in the battle. Radicalism and hate are a loss. You have to learn to be a good radical.

 

[noosabar]

I was thinking of the same thing, I'm an INFP with T tendences (more in the past than now) and I have too a very awkward and bad relationship with my ISTJ father. However, there's things about him that make him attractive, like being very tough-minded at times...but in a complete different fashion than mine.
You're better than him, always have that in check. You have 3 letters in common with Camille Paglia, that'll make me happy. xDD
Don't die in hate, but let the man do his thing and do yours. Never become like him in the battle. Radicalism and hate are a loss. You have to learn to be a good radical.

I dont hate my dad, just indifferent. I feel a little guilty that Im not persuing a relationship with him, and Im not sure how that would ( or if it would) imact on my children when I have them one day.

 

[Sela]

First of all, please don't think that you're better than him, or anyone else for that matter. No one's better than anyone else based on their letter combinations.
Having said that, he's probably so regimented because he only wants the best for you. I can be that way with my daughter at times. I know she thinks I'm mean sometimes, but I'm harsh because I care SO MUCH and don't want her to have to go through the grief that I did when I was her age.
As far as the intolerance towards gays and people of different ethnicities ... I can't explain that one. Sorry, but I have no room for racial and sexual prejudices in my life. It could be a military thing, or it could be a generational thing. I honestly don't know.

 

[Namaste]

My grandfather was an ISTJ serviceman and my father had a difficult relationship with him as well. It looks like your father has a strong Fi. His values and beliefs of the military are very important to him and he thinks that it would be the best for you as well. Because your father seems very traditional and old-fashioned, the likelihood of him changing his views looks very slim. If you want a stronger relationship with him I would suggest avoiding talk about morals/ethics/values or anything where your views differ and talk about or do things that you both enjoy doing together (i.e. movies/board games/sports)... there has to be something, right?

 

[Female INFJ]

I am a 36yr old male, my father is an ISTJ...My question is how do I go about finding a common ground with my dad, Im quite happy not having contact with him however I think it may be something I regret later.

noosabar,

I am 31yr old female INFJ, my father is an ISTJ. Thank you for starting this thread. I too have trouble getting along with my father. At first all was going well in my life when I was following everything he said, and trying to be very 'T' and intelligent. My sister is also an ISTJ, I find he respects her more, as she is excelling in her career, etc.

The more he sees my incapabilities in intellectual endeavors and career, and my approach to life (now I am breaking free from trying to please him all the time). He is now showing his disapproval. At first I felt very sad, when I saw that we will part ways, now I feel it is up to me to try to relate to him in a better way, now that I am aware of MBTI. I will be looking at this Thread also for any pointers.

I was thinking of the same thing, I'm an INFP with T tendences (more in the past than now) and I have too a very awkward and bad relationship with my ISTJ father. However, there's things about him that make him attractive, like being very tough-minded at times...but in a complete different fashion than mine.
You're better than him, always have that in check. You have 3 letters in common with Camille Paglia, that'll make me happy. xDD
Don't die in hate, but let the man do his thing and do yours. Never become like him in the battle. Radicalism and hate are a loss. You have to learn to be a good radical.

scarygirl,

I am getting to the nice message you posted in my profile, scarygirl. I do wish to talk to you some more soon on PerC. Perhaps you can help me with this issue too. I am becoming more distant from my father. And to be honest, I have to look after myself more. Instead of trying to please him, it seems like a full-time job to me. I feel my father disregards me, and I've wasted so much time looking for his approval. Because the direction in life I am taking, I will never get it. I won't likely have an amazing career and be successful and all that, as he expected of me. And now I want to maintain a relationship, a positive one at least, I know I cannot expect much out of it. It is his way, or I can leave, basically it seems. If you have any pointers of how to deal with an ISTJ father it will be appreciated.

 

[Female INFJ]

noosabar,

So far, in my plan to create a positive relationship with my Father, I have 'picked' a few things that he likes to do. For example he likes fishing trips, and watching Clint Eastwood films, and some stupid 'shoot-em-up' films. I found out recently that he secretly leaves me at home to watch 1/2 price movies on Tuesdays, and will not tell me where he goes, because I disapprove of his movie choices. So now that I've found out, he kind of wants me to go with him, so I may have to suck it up one day.

He likes to see me developing career and school plans also...My point is I pick a few things he likes to see me do, or things that he likes to do. And I make a point that he actually 'Sees' me doing these things, and participating, without complaints. He likes to see a 'smile' and stuff. I personally don't give a damn about these things, but I'd better do something he likes, or he'll just go into his world and 'X' me out of it, it seems.

I hope this advice helps. So stick to a schedule and pick some activities you can do together, and pat him on the back and encourage and stuff. If he doesn't see you enjoying these things wholeheartedly, then the quality time will turn into an issue to argue about, instead of leisure and enjoyment.

 

[poisoncup]

try to find similar interests with him and things you do agree on and talk about that.

ISTJs are stubborn, so his views probably won't change. make sure he knows your stance so he won't assume you agree with him, but don't push the subject, it'll just start an argument.
when he tries to push you into the military say no, explain your reasons,and change the subject. maybe he'll give up eventually.
If there's anyone he respects or will listen to maybe they can talk to him about respecting others opinions,it's worth a try i guess.

 

[Qadosh]

ISTJ fathers seem to be very difficult to get along with. I hope that if I ever have children I do not come off this way and push them away.

I have an ESTP friend who has a ESTJ father and I see him having many of the same problems as you. His ESTJ father was not in the military, but he really does try to change his sons values to be more in line with his. He also has an INTP daughter and they are always fighting. Like constantly. They just have no mutual respect and do not understand each other. Overbearing STJ parental figures can be very difficult to be around and will make you feel that you are not as good as the parent if the two of you do not see eye-to-eye.

As far as how to get along better with him, if you truely are determined and will do what it takes to get along with him I would recommend trying to take an interest in military history. Read some stuff about it and discuss this with him. I bet he will be surprised and get excited and start talking and talking about it. If he takes your interest in military history and then uses that to try and push you into the military explain to him that you respect the military and you understand that he wants what's best for you and for you to be in the military, but it's just not what you want to do with your life and you hope that he can accept that because you feel that he has always pushed you in that direction. With STJs you have to be straight without putting down what he says because he believes it is right. If you insult his view, he will probably be very uptight and get a bit angry about it.

Anyway, that's my advice. Try talking to him about things that interest him and try to take an interest in it as well and really pay attention. If you don't really care about what you ask him and half pay attention he will pick up on this and wonder about your motives. I hope this helps you. I think he just really views his advice as "right" and when you don't take it, he becomes frustrated.

I find my buddy's INTP sister very interesting, personally. She's kinda weird, but very, very intelligent.

Good luck in your endeavors and report back/ask more questions if you want more. I've seen this situation before and it is something that I don't like seeing. I don't know how good my personal advice is but I'll try to help as much as I can.

 

[CallSignOWL]

yeah, we ISTJ are set in our ways!! :crazy:

we have a way that we view the world, and it is often considered to be the "right" way. The military is very structured, and as a soon-to-be-member (hopefully!) it plays well with our needs for law and order. He probably sees the military as a great organization (and I agree)

why do you Strongly oppose the military?? Obviously it is something your father is fond of, and it is probably a source of pride and accomplishment for him. If you are constantly "dissing" the armed forces, your father might see it as a personal attack--and we ISTJs seem to react very harshly towards perceived threats.

And it might hurt him inside, though it may not show it. I know when I hear of people calling out against the military, I am saddened by it. Maybe your father feels the same way.

OWL

 

[Female INFJ]

yeah, we ISTJ are set in our ways!! :crazy:

we have a way that we view the world, and it is often considered to be the "right" way. The military is very structured, and as a soon-to-be-member (hopefully!) it plays well with our needs for law and order. He probably sees the military as a great organization (and I agree)

why do you Strongly oppose the military?? Obviously it is something your father is fond of, and it is probably a source of pride and accomplishment for him. If you are constantly "dissing" the armed forces, your father might see it as a personal attack--and we ISTJs seem to react very harshly towards perceived threats.

And it might hurt him inside, though it may not show it. I know when I hear of people calling out against the military, I am saddened by it. Maybe your father feels the same way.

OWL

CallSignOWL,

Beautiful advice OWL, I like in your Sig that you've included MBTI, Ennegram and Astrological Sign. I find looking at all three gives a large picture. I just thought I'd mention I like your Sig

I am definitely trying to learn quickly in this thread, because my relationship with my father is dwindling. But using my intuition and trying to be less stubborn myself has helped. But I feel saddened, that I'll likely never gain his approval on anything I do.

My moon is in Cancer, so relationship with 'the parents' causes me great concern -- not to say others don't experience this -- but to me it really has caused a strain in my heart, not being able to be all that they want me to be. Oh well, a day at a time I suppose, when dealing with my Dad ISTJ. At least ISTJs are so likable (well they are to me). I think it would be harder to deal with him, if he was not.

 

[Qadosh]

Obviously it is something your father is fond of, and it is probably a source of pride and accomplishment for him. If you are constantly "dissing" the armed forces, your father might see it as a personal attack--and we ISTJs seem to react very harshly towards perceived threats.

And it might hurt him inside, though it may not show it. I know when I hear of people calling out against the military, I am saddened by it. Maybe your father feels the same way.

OWL

Great point. I would say if you do not like/agree with the military don't vocalize this in a way that is insulting.

 

[youll.never.know]

I believe that my father is an ISTJ also, and we too have a strained relationship. He is black and white about EVERYTHING(indeed, he often describes himself this way), and he sees anyone who disagrees with him poorly. He thinks that it is impossible for him to be wrong, and the most maddening thing about him is that he makes unfounded assumptions(false ones) about me(and others. much in the same way as you father being racist and homophobic.) that he sees as undeniable truths, and if I deny them in any way, he "knows" that I am "lying" and "full of shit." I can feel very smothered and judged to say the least.

What I try to do to deal with it is concentrate on the fact that I know that he wants me to think and do certain things is because he wants what is best for me(he just happens to hold the misconception that he knows what that is without exception). I know it can be impossible, but just try to explain to him that just because you are different, doesnt mean that you are wrong. And also try to explain to him how his lack of acceptance or respect for your opinions hurts you. If he refuses to listen, that is not your fault and there is really nothing else that you can do. I know that sucks, but at least you will know that you tried. Best of luck!

 

[youll.never.know]

yeah, we ISTJ are set in our ways!! :crazy:

we have a way that we view the world, and it is often considered to be the "right" way. The military is very structured, and as a soon-to-be-member (hopefully!) it plays well with our needs for law and order. He probably sees the military as a great organization (and I agree)

why do you Strongly oppose the military?? Obviously it is something your father is fond of, and it is probably a source of pride and accomplishment for him. If you are constantly "dissing" the armed forces, your father might see it as a personal attack--and we ISTJs seem to react very harshly towards perceived threats.

And it might hurt him inside, though it may not show it. I know when I hear of people calling out against the military, I am saddened by it. Maybe your father feels the same way.

OWL

I think it is important to make the distinction between opposing someone's views and "dissing" them, as you put it.
As you said, ISTJs consider their beliefs to be very important. If anything, they should understand people who have strong views(even if they are totally different than the ISTJs) without feeling that there is a "threat".

Perhaps realizing that other people are capable of both respecting AND disagreeing with your opinions will help the ISTJ not to perceive a threat where, in reality, there isnt one.

 

[noosabar]

yeah, we ISTJ are set in our ways!! :crazy:

we have a way that we view the world, and it is often considered to be the "right" way. The military is very structured, and as a soon-to-be-member (hopefully!) it plays well with our needs for law and order. He probably sees the military as a great organization (and I agree)

why do you Strongly oppose the military?? Obviously it is something your father is fond of, and it is probably a source of pride and accomplishment for him. If you are constantly "dissing" the armed forces, your father might see it as a personal attack--and we ISTJs seem to react very harshly towards perceived threats.

And it might hurt him inside, though it may not show it. I know when I hear of people calling out against the military, I am saddened by it. Maybe your father feels the same way.

OWL

Regarding the military, my point of veiw comes from an overveiw of economic structures and the minority who control global currencies. Military machines and confilct are a fantastic source of income to elite global corporations thus turning the wheels and creating greater wealth for the elitists in both peacetime and war.
This does not only apply to the military, it is steadfast in the cilivil sector as well.
The sinister side of the military is that it focuses on control through the elimination and intimidation, and denial of liberty. Once enrolled to the military you are owned, you become an expendable asset to your country, you are a pawn in a system wich is based on a pyramid tier of hirachy which ultimatly is based on economic gain and control of resources, not human rights and freedom, the feeble story which we are sold.
Every level of society including myself are subject to the same regime.
Iv heard my father speak about how beautiful a 52 drop in Nam was, this mortifies me as ultimately that beauty is derived from the desire to obliterate. I dont believe capitalist economic structure has longevity, unless a global population can be subdued and controlled, this is a natural progression for this system, and those who resist and cant be corrupted by the corpoate automoton are are ultimately dominated or exterminated through military action. Wholisticly I dont see this an integral mainstay to gross global happiness.
Rothschild was quoted saying " If there is no war today, it is because my sons dont want a war today".
This is a nutshell explanatoin, if i didn't fumble and type slowly and with just one finger it woud be more elaborate.:laughing:
Good luck with your career, I hope it serves you well, I understand you have a need for structure and law.

 

[CallSignOWL]

I think it is important to make the distinction between opposing someone's views and "dissing" them, as you put it.
As you said, ISTJs consider their beliefs to be very important. If anything, they should understand people who have strong views(even if they are totally different than the ISTJs) without feeling that there is a "threat".

Perhaps realizing that other people are capable of both respecting AND disagreeing with your opinions will help the ISTJ not to perceive a threat where, in reality, there isnt one.

oh yes, I know the difference. I can go on for hours debating certain topics with my friends! But one must be careful not to have a dismissing/accusatory/hurtful/disrespectful tone of voice. I know that I myself am sensitive to that. And we will defend ourselves, as I am doing now! :happy:

OWL

 

[CallSignOWL]

Once enrolled to the military you are owned, you become an expendable asset to your country, you are a pawn in a system wich is based on a pyramid tier of hirachy which ultimatly is based on economic gain and control of resources, not human rights and freedom, the feeble story which we are sold.

Iv heard my father speak about how beautiful a 52 drop in Nam was, this mortifies me as ultimately that beauty is derived from the desire to obliterate.

True, the military does "own" you as it is once you enroll.

I agree with your father on the B-52 drop--- But I think you might miss your father's point. He might not have been attracted to the "desire to obliterate" as you put it, but was awed by the shear destructive capabilities of the airframe. Just the way we are awed by a video of a nuclear explosion, or a hurricane. It is awesome in its power, and one needs to respect that.

Im going to go out on a limb here and suggest that your N preference is finding meaning in what for an S is an observation. The reverberations of the carpet-bombing can be felt and heard from miles away. The sheer power might have struck a chord with your father, and I know I would find that sight to be "beautiful" in a way that showcases that awesomeness ....does that make sense? I hope it makes sense...

 

[noosabar]

True, the military does "own" you as it is once you enroll.

I agree with your father on the B-52 drop--- But I think you might miss your father's point. He might not have been attracted to the "desire to obliterate" as you put it, but was awed by the shear destructive capabilities of the airframe. Just the way we are awed by a video of a nuclear explosion, or a hurricane. It is awesome in its power, and one needs to respect that.

Im going to go out on a limb here and suggest that your N preference is finding meaning in what for an S is an observation. The reverberations of the carpet-bombing can be felt and heard from miles away. The sheer power might have struck a chord with your father, and I know I would find that sight to be "beautiful" in a way that showcases that awesomeness ....does that make sense? I hope it makes sense...

Yes I understand and here comes the contradiction, I find weapons fascinating and awe inspiring its the intent behind their devolopment which is unnerving. It would be great to have a big barron piece of land where we could go and play with such devices like children with fireworks.
Would it not enter the mind of the observer that there are people under the carpet being vapourised or even worse injured in horrific ways, or is ignorance bliss?, is there no emotion for the loss of life or the grievances of those who loose loved ones. Reverse the scenario.
We can now watch real life egagements on line, the decimation is more often than not carried out by operatives who through the use of awesome technologies prey on comletely unaware targets. We have all seen the grafic movies prtraying the physical and the psychologigal struggle involved in conflicts, a dismal state of human affairs.

 

[CallSignOWL]

so, you are not against the military per se, but war in general. Right??

aren't we all?

OWL

 

[Qadosh]

Yes I understand and here comes the contradiction, I find weapons fascinating and awe inspiring its the intent behind their devolopment which is unnerving. It would be great to have a big barron piece of land where we could go and play with such devices like children with fireworks.
Would it not enter the mind of the observer that there are people under the carpet being vapourised or even worse injured in horrific ways, or is ignorance bliss?, is there no emotion for the loss of life or the grievances of those who loose loved ones. Reverse the scenario.
We can now watch real life egagements on line, the decimation is more often than not carried out by operatives who through the use of awesome technologies prey on comletely unaware targets. We have all seen the grafic movies prtraying the physical and the psychologigal struggle involved in conflicts, a dismal state of human affairs.

No wonder you and your ISTJ father don't get along. Just reading that is annoying to me. If you talked like that to me in person I would just walk away from you and remember that I do not want to enter into a conversation with you again. Try not to talk like this around him lol. I'm getting the same feeling I got from reading articles from C. Wright Mills for my sociology class. Frustrated by meaningless ramblings from a social conflict theorist.

Hopefully you don't take this as me insulting you. I don't know how to put it anymore nicely.