[Zic]

Interesting research. The researchers have interviewed 12 INTP women from across the world and found they all have lots of things in common.
LINK - .PDF

We are presenting the beginning of a research project—our attempts to formulate
how we might do research on psychological type and culture. Because this area of
research is so new, we are presenting our approach and information at an early point so
that we can benefit from the suggestions of people gathered here. We very much want
your perspectives and questions as we design future steps in this project.

Phrases most often used to describe INTP females:
• is basically distrustful of people in general; questions their motivations
• keeps people at a distance; avoids close interpersonal relationships
• is subtly negativistic; tends to undermine and obstruct or sabotage
• tends to be self-defensive
• extrapunitive; tends to transfer or project blame
Adjectives most often used to describe:
• distrustful
• sulky
• evasive
• indifferent
• resentful
• defensive
• wary
• unfriendly
• tense
Phrases least often used to describe:
• emphasizes being with others; gregarious
• has social poise and presence; appears socially at ease
• has a clear-cut internally consistent personality
• appears straight-forward, forthright, candid in dealing with others
• is turned to for advice and reassurance
Adjectives least often used to describe:
• tolerant
• appreciative
• helpful
• cooperative
• honest
• warm
• pleasant
• sincere
• sympathetic
• understanding

“I had a lot of trouble with the way things were done. For instance, girls
weren’t supposed to ask boys to dance—I thought that was silly. But the boys let me
know I shouldn’t have asked!”

“The perfect relationship would be living in two separate houses and
visiting each other on weekends.”

“It has always been clear to me that I was not the way a woman was supposed
to be. And if I ever forgot, there was someone around to remind me.” “Being myself
was not so hard—I didn’t feel I had much choice. Coming to accept and even appreciate
myself was much harder. And the MBTI had a lot to do with that.”

“I… felt a lack of appreciation from my parents.”

It's an interesting read. A bit long, but I felt I should post this.

 

[iKicker]

Your sources seem to really hate female INTPs. Their motive was to show how female INTPs are 'shunned', right? The overall description is... sad.

 

[Zomboy]

Your sources seem to really hate female INTPs. Their motive was to show how female INTPs are 'shunned', right? The overall description is... sad.

It is, but nonetheless, it seems to be accurate

I met a INTP girl not too long ago, and after getting to know her a bit better, a lot of this rings true for her

But you INTPs enjoy being negative-nancies. Isn't that one of the greatest assets of your type?

 

[username]

Interesting research. The researchers have interviewed 12 INTP women from across the world and found they all have lots of things in common.
LINK - .PDF











It's an interesting read. A bit long, but I felt I should post this.

It doesn't fit me at all! And I am not just saying that! I am distrustful of others and I do unconsciously sabotage, but I am really warm and can be friendly when I feel comfortable in an environment. I am sympathetic to others. I'm not sulky. I definitely don't place blame on others when I'm to blame; my self-esteem is not that low and I would prefer to acknowledge the truth instead of being blinded by pride.

 

[Zic]

Your sources seem to really hate female INTPs. Their motive was to show how female INTPs are 'shunned', right? The overall description is... sad.

I don't know if they hate them (I know I LOVE them), but those adjectives were ones people used to describe INTP females. Which would mean INTPs (males AND females) aren't really accepted in this majorly ESFJ society. Things are worse with females, since upto 15% of them are ESFJs, and at least a further 45% have a preference for "Feeling" function.
The research was conducted by two females, an ENFP and an INTP.
I haven't posted this to bash on INTP females, it's actually quite the opposite. Think of it as a means of raising awareness that people aren't the same and the majority has no right to think of others as "different".

 

[LQ9]

Garsh, really? That makes us sound like a bunch of hateful, antisocial, unhappy hags! I feel sad!

I'd like to think I fit a lot more of the "adjectives least often used to describe." I'm not gullible, but I do tend to be trusting of people, and assume they have good intentions. And I'm pretty sure none of my friends or acquaintances would have a problem describing me as "tolerant", "pleasant" and "cooperative." Isn't being generally easygoing supposed to be a common INTP trait?

I mean, the "most often used to describe" list sounds like they asked people to name all their least favorite personality traits in people. No wonder those 12 women felt misunderstood.

(By the way, Zic, I'm not blaming you for that research! It's still an interesting tidbit and I thank you for posting it.)

 

[TigerBear]

I could really relate to the experience of those women, although I dated a fair bit more as a teenager. But I agree that they need to ask some non-INTPs the same questions - otherwise maybe it's just that all women feel different and outsiderish.

Did anyone else get really offended when they defined hermetic for us in brackets though? It made me wonder who they were aiming at with the article and I couldn't see why that was necessary. Unless I'm being an overly sensitive idiot, and the Polish woman parenthetically paraphrased herself in her reply, or the interview was in Polish and they were having trouble finding a good translation.

I can see that a lot of those negative words would seem to apply to me, but it's only because I'm really not in my element when I'm around most people, especially with socializing for the sake of socializing. It's a lot like work for me, and often in social situations I'd much rather be reading a book or drawing or doing something I have planned like studying German grammar, so it's not surprising if I seem 'indifferent', 'tense' and 'wary' rather than 'warm'. It's because I am in those situations, but that's not really who I am as person as such, or perhaps it is. I sometimes wonder if our true self is our social behavior, or something else. Anyway, I find it much easier when there's a purpose I can have, like teaching someone something, or learning, or articulating a plan. I'm not malicious.

 

[Nitou]

Ugh, that's awful. If I object to these characterizations then I am "self-defensive" right? Who wouldn't be? Thing is, INTP's "chameleons" may be more dependent upon their environment than many other types. If the INTP is in an environment that does not support them, where they feel misunderstood and unappreciated, then they can become very negative and that perpetuates a downward spiral of misunderstanding and resentment. That seems to be the experience of many of these women: (edited for brevity)

“Everyone thinks I was strange compared with other people such as my
sisters.”

“I… felt a lack of appreciation from my parents.”

“I loved reading; my parents would say, ‘You shouldn’t be off by
yourself.’ I was rebellious, got in a lot of trouble.” “My extraverted sister took all the
space—she didn’t invade my space, she took it.”

“My family found me frustrating—I was disassociated, detached. They could not understand me and I felt totally unacknowledged, like I didn’t exist for them.”

“I’m very different from the sister closest in age to me. I felt that I couldn’t
measure up and I always felt bad about that. I couldn’t seem to do the accepted thing.”

“I used to think the hospital had mixed up babies when I was born—I certainly
didn’t belong in my family. My family—at least my father, mother, and older brother—
are all dominant Fs, and they always wanted a sweet little girl who would wear frilly
dresses and play with dolls. Later, I realized that I didn’t belong much of anywhere
except when it came to academic pursuits.”

Under these circumstances, I can see why they would turn sour.

It is, but nonetheless, it seems to be accurate

I met a INTP girl not too long ago, and after getting to know her a bit better, a lot of this rings true for her.

We can be extremely negative when we feel stifled and unhappy, and we have difficulty managing our feelings and developing social skills. But that is not all we are. I am surprised that the words candid, sincere, honest and tolerant made the list of words least used to describe us, because these things are very INTP characteristics. Of course, people might not consider it "honest" if the INTP is honest to the point that we have our feet in our mouths a lot. (Fortunately for me, my friends think it's funny when I am candid enough to make things awkward.) :crazy: Consider that a happy and well-developed INTP has an Ne-Fe extroverted personality; that isn't so bad is it?

But you INTPs enjoy being negative-nancies. Isn't that one of the greatest assets of your type?

Yes, that is what we do for you. How is anything to progress if everyone is content all of the time? I bet you are glad that some negative nancy moaned about the cold and dark and then figured out how to build a fire. :tongue:

 

[Zomboy]

Yes, that is what we do for you. How is anything to progress if everyone is content all of the time? I bet you are glad that some negative nancy moaned about the cold and dark and then figured out how to build a fire. :tongue:

Being negative isn't always a bad thing. Without realists, our heads would be in the clouds all the time

I love you guys, but you probably abhor me

 

[Nitou]

I love you guys, but you probably abhor me

I abhor you enough to knock you over and lick your face. Eww. Sorry, uh, that's why my feelings are supposed to stay in their cage.

 

[splash]

I guess if my co-workers were asked to describe me, the description would fit this list :sad:.

My impression is that a lot of introvert/INTP behaviour is interpreted the wrong way, this is probably the reason people's perception of INTPs is so negative.

I like the idea of this research project, but unfortunately, not a lot of people will read it.

 

[Radiant Flux]

It is, but nonetheless, it seems to be accurate

I met a INTP girl not too long ago, and after getting to know her a bit better, a lot of this rings true for her

But you INTPs enjoy being negative-nancies. Isn't that one of the greatest assets of your type?

I get that most of this is accurate, but "The ideal relationship is living in two separate houses?" Jesus, that seems terrible.

 

[splash]

I get that most of this is accurate, but "The ideal relationship is living in two separate houses?" Jesus, that seems terrible.

I would love that. What's wrong with living in two separate houses?

 

[Kingdom Crusader]

Funny, I find that all of the positive traits listed above are really me. I just don't go out of my way to show them, like the ones who ACT like they have those traits. The negative traits listed above are pretty alien to me, except for the mistrustful part. But even then, I don't make a show of it. And that's usually balanced by my wanting to give people a chance or the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Ophilia]

Just to clarify, as presented in the paper, these aren't self-descriptors used by INTP women, I don't think? They're descriptors that were used by others to describe INTP women. They're not even necessarily accurate descriptors, they're just the ones that were used most often. Just taken from that perspective, sure, 'I can accept that'; I wouldn't doubt that people might use these phrases to describe me, INTP females, or even just INTPs. I don't relate very much to most of these characterizations, but I'm also aware that how I come across to most people often doesn't align very well with how I see myself.

 

[psychopathological]

I'm a little suspicious. Not a single "most often used to describe" was positive, and no "least often used to describe" was negative. This study feels like it was designed with an agenda in mind.

I have to admit it makes sense for "normal" people to omit the obvious positive qualities of the types of people they feel are furthest from what they are "supposed" to be, especially women.

Honest answers would have included:

Phrases and adjectives most often used:
Far more intelligent than I, being a typical jackoff, could ever hope to be
Able to process and evaluate information and situations objectively
Intelligent
Independent
Creative
Original

least often used to describe:
dumb, stupid, slow, etc.
overly dramatic or emotional
Incapable of independent thought

Feel free to expand this list.

I would like to know whose opinions the data is based on. Did they ask random people with MBTI knowledge? Did they provide a description to those who were oblivious? Did they find female INTPs, round up people they have interacted with, and ask them what they thought of the INTP?

 

[Jennywocky]

I would like to know whose opinions the data is based on. Did they ask random people with MBTI knowledge? Did they provide a description to those who were oblivious? Did they find female INTPs, round up people they have interacted with, and ask them what they thought of the INTP?

I either have a copy of the book with the study in it, or I have a PDF somewhere of the study. If I can find it, I'll let you know.

I think some of the comments came from people who interviewed the INTP women in question and/or watched a tape of the interview, but I'm not sure.

 

[Ophilia]

Very quick reply, as I don't have time to go into any great detail. If it's worthy of discussion, maybe I can elaborate further later.

There's a weird thing that happens to women, where things that are generally considered as positive qualities become negatives in association with gender.

"The same behavior that enhances his status simply makes her less popular." (from Delusions of Gender, Cordelia Fine)

Although I'm not discounting that there may have been some bias in the study, I can also share anecdotal accounts of being labeled as dumb or stupid because I knew more about the subject than whoever was doing the labeling. I've attributed this to a kind of 'I could not understand what she was talking about,' blindspot thing. If what I was saying went over their head, they assumed it was nonsense, not that they were ignorant.

Sadly, 'intelligent, independent, creative and original' are often not perceived as positive or desirable qualities in women, and so those adjectives get 'flipped' into things like 'uppity, willful, nontraditional, and strange'.

That's all I have time for now, more later.

 

[DemonD]

A whopping 12 people huh?

And that list seems stupid. A lot of those descriptions you can use for a lot of random people.

 

[Ophilia]

There were 12 women interviewed about their experience of being INTP and female in the study. But the list of phrases actually comes from an earlier study. The number of participants in that isn't given, but since it used 30 years of data from IPAR, I think we can safely assume that more than 12 people were asked to characterize the INTP women. And yes, that list could be used to characterize random people. That's basically what the study did, have people characterize what they thought were random people, and then look for similarities in the characterizations of specific MBTI types.


Another kind of evidence comes from Portraits of Type (1991), by Avril Thorne and Harrison Gough. Their study analyzes 30 years of data collected about participants at the Institute of Personality Assessment and Research (IPAR) at the University of California at Berkeley. IPAR assessors (trained psychologists) conducted intensive individual interviews, observed group problem-solving tasks and social interactions, and assessed creativity and personal adjustment to arrive at their evaluations of individuals. They then used such instruments as the Adjective Check List (Gough & Heilbrun, 1983) and the California Q-Set (Block, 1986) to describe participants. The observers did not know individuals’ types when they recorded their observations.


Granted, the INTP women being characterized were a selective group of women. Maybe there would have been different results if the women had not been so dynamic. It would not surprise me in the least to find that the fewer positive characteristics a woman actually possesses, the more favorably she'll be characterized.


It is important to note that Thorne & Gough’s sample was a selective group—well- educated and creative. The samples included undergraduate students at the University of California at Berkeley, senior-year students at a liberal arts women’s college, students in the law school at Berkeley, mathematicians, architects, creative writers, business executives, and other professionals. Participants were generally chosen for their creative accomplishments or potential (1991, pp. 4-5). The INTP women were predominantly mathematicians, law students, and undergraduate students (p. 86).


And yes, it was observed that the INTP women were negatively characterized, probably rather to the extreme:


The words and phrases used most often to describe INTP women were entirely negative. Those used most often to describe male INTPs were mixed—some positive and some negative. INTP females were depicted more negatively than women in general and than women of any other type. Female INTP descriptions were also more negative than those for any male type.


But yes, only interviewing 12 INTP women on their experiences of such is a fairly small sample. The fact there were so many similarities in responses from INTP women all over the world within such a small sample is awfully damned interesting though.