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I wrote this out as a reply for another recent thread discussing good matches for ISFPs. It's a quite large and in-depth post, so I thought it might deserve its own thread. Also, I'm wanting some input from ISFPs, especially those who have experience with INTPs. I'm giving you the reasons why I think it's a good match. I'm curious to know what you think. I'm also seeking your advice. Just a pep talk on what to do and what not to do to make this relationship exist and succeed would be... very helpful.

See the orignal thread here:
Click to go to the thread.
"Oh hey, there's some INTP love going on in this thread after all. My current romantic interest is an ISFP. I'm really surprised at how compatible our types seem, because if you examine our type preferences, you’ll find that they're completely reversed. Not only is the order backwards, but the introverted/extroverted aspects are flipped as well. And yet on the surface, we still have so much in common.

So! Time for the pros:
- Despite the type relationship being classified as “The Enigma", INTPs and ISFPs can have a lot in common. -
I’ll use our relationship as an example: We’re both reasonably creative. We’re both writers. We both enjoy art, music, video games, fantasy novels... we both appreciate the same things FROM the novels we read, to an extent. We both appreciate and respect “the individual”. We both have a bit of an ego, but we’re both very lenient when it comes to expressing and accepting it. And last but not definitely not least, we both have similar ideas and expectations when it comes to relationships with other people, romantic or not.

- INTPs respect ISFPs' originality. -
As an INTP, I respect new and unique things. Different from the norm is one of the best things anything can be, in my opinion. However, personally, I’ve had to fight against outside influences throughout my life. There have been times when I’ve found myself conforming simply to keep things quiet, or to fit into a group I thought might respect one of my ideas. For a year or so, it was a battle just to break out of the rut of conformity. One of the most amazing things to me is how naturally this comes to the ISFP. She does what she wants, quietly enough to keep conflict at a very manageable level. She needs to have her talents praised, yet at the same time she can totally disregard things that would change her style in a way she doesn’t want it to be changed. Even if there was nothing else, that originality would instantly earn my utmost respect.

- Both types seem to share an appreciation of symbolism. -
This is a big one for me. That’s one of the main ways I communicate through my writing, and in deeper conversation. Metaphors, especially one that can be extended beyond the initial circumstances it was created for, are a favorite device of mine. And she just loves it, hahah. We both choose names for characters based on the meaning of the name, as it relates to the character. Various undertones and tropes used throughout our writings seem to match up here and there. The best thing is, we can bring these things into everyday conversation. I was trying to explain to her how I perceived people, the individual, in my mind. This is considerably more difficult to do when the introversion/extroversion of the Feeling side is flipped. I was able to bridge that gap by using a metaphor. (Comparing people to paintings, incidentally. This was one of those super-effective metaphors I was talking about previously, as well.)

-INTPs and ISFPs share a desire for adventure.-
As an ISFP, you know this is a big one. ISFPs have that wanderlust and taste for adventure. This is something that most INTPs can connect with and share in, even if they experience the adventure in a totally different realm. For me, not only is the adventure in the journey itself, but in who I journey with. I enjoy knowing that I’m sharing an experience with someone else, and I think ISFPs do too. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is one way to get to an ISFP’s heart very quickly.

Now, here come the cons.

- ISFPs are quite often religious, whereas INTPs generally are not. -
That’s true in this case as well. She considers herself to be a Christian. She believes God is responsible for saving one of her family members from cancer, whereas I’m quite certain that it was modern medicine. We don’t butt heads about it, but I still feel that we challenge each other. Her reason for believing IS very good. I can see where it comes from. And her disregard of the norm coupled with my overall respect of her has really caused me to think more on the topic. But I have also tried to challenge her. I asked her if she thought I deserved to go to hell. Her response was “No.” I said I agreed, but according to her religion, I would, no matter how much good I did in my life. It isn’t a source of conflict for the moment, but I imagine it could be later on.

- ISFPs’ conversation can seem frivolous and hollow to an INTP. -
That’s pretty self-explanatory. Small talk about this and that are great in the initial phases of any human relationship (whether it be romance, friendship, or business) to analyze compatability, but after a certain point, I’d much rather get into your thoughts. Deep, meaningful conversation is present, definitely. We have “epic discussion time” on a weekly to biweekly basis, about various things that we see as important. The frequency and intensity has been increasing, but there are some bumps here and there with initiating them. Our conversation tends to have a flow that I can slip into quite comfortably, but there are times when I want to discuss something important, and the flow simply will not lead us there. I want to to say, “I want to talk to you about _____," but she seems uncomfortable, and the conversation wouldn’t be nearly as productive as it would if she had reached it in her comfort zone. Overall, I’m glad to make small talk with her, because I know she enjoys it, but there are times when I’m really just not feeling it. If we were able to talk in person, I have no doubt that she’d be able to pick up on my mood, and thereby my frustration at being unable to reach the topic I want to reach in a manner that is comfortable for her. But this leads me to another questionable con:

- ISFPs aren’t as curious as INTPs? -
I have a rabid curiosity. I devour knowledge that I think is important. If it isn’t immediately available, all the more reason to go after it. But she isn’t. There have been times where she has uttered the words, “I’ll take your word for it.” My response was, “Wtf?” That’s just not something that INTPs do. A big big no-no, in my book. With her inherent ability at discerning emotions, she could be simply amazing at getting close to people. She just doesn’t have that much of a desire to actually know what’s going on inside someone, often times. Ahh well. I want to say that if she’s satisfied with that, then I am too, but... I’m really not. It does irritate me, to see that ability not being used to the extent I think it should be. Selfish, I know, but... *shrug*

- INTPs can get frustrated with the slow pace the relationship may move at. -
I kind of have a love-hate relationship with this aspect of our relationship. Have I mentioned yet that we’re still “just friends”? She has a history of “friendzoning” people, but she’s romantically interested in me (even if only slightly), I’m certain. But the way this relationship is (hopefully) starting seems so frivolous to me, at times. I’m a firm believer in “I like you, you like me too, let’s date,” but she is... not. She’s so reluctant. We’re very close as friends, but she’s reluctant to allow me to take that last step into actually entering into a relationship. Ask any INTP, and they will tell you that this is... bad.

|Frustration vent in 3...2...1...| Damn, she is such a tough nut to crack. I’ve been talking to her since July. I mean, we both know that we’re a great match. It’s SO OBVIOUS. We were going to co-write a story about two characters who had our personalities, and guess what? They turned out to be a couple. To me, I see a million giant flashing arrow-signs pointing towards, “RELATIONSHIP!!!”, yet every time we broach the subject (which seems to happen in every in-depth conversation we have) she (subconsciously, it seems) changes to something either unrelated or only loosely related. Regardless of how obvious it is to me, she still seems unsure and afraid. (If someone would like to help, I’d be really grateful. That’s why I came here in the first place, to be honest.) |/vent| So yeah. I’m frustrated. It’s very bittersweet, though. Every step she lets me take seems all the more precious (capitalism, f*ck yeah!), but that doesn’t do a whole lot to lessen my impatience between them.


Now, all of this being said, I’m not exactly a purist INTP. I’ve been an INFP before in my life. I relied pretty much solely on feelings, before I developed my ability to think rationally. As a result, I have the ability to use my inferior function, Extraverted Feeling, to a reasonable degree. Also, it’s important to always take into consideration that we are all individuals, with different strength-of-preference towards one type or another. Some things I do (my ability to empathize, for example) are very unlike an INTP, and I’m sure that some things she does are very unlike an ISFP as well. The main point here is, YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY. This is only my personal experience.

Oh, and have I mentioned that we’re both multitaskers? I currently have eleven tabs open in my web browser, and a word processor open to type out this post."
 

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Oh dear Lord i don't know if it's the brains or the i-will-not-let-you-in-emotionally attitude, but i am so turned on by INTPs! I love the fact that they are interesting, are capable of carrying intelligent conversations and are actually emotional people underneath numerous layers of rationality.
What to say, I just love meeting INTPs. I can never get enough of them!:proud:
 
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Discussion Starter #4
WELL. I would PM you my MSN info, but my post count is less than 15.

So you like INTPs, eh? This is good, this is good. What're your experiences with them?
 

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No i would disagree about the curiosity thing. That seems like a mislead. I'm an ISFP and I am very interested in learning. All i do is learn. And experiment. and make stuff. Knowledge is very important to me. And i think this applies to a lot of ISFPs.
Ooh and i suck at multitasking! :tongue:
Coming to the relationship part- i can totally relate. I had an INTP that i was interested in. He said 'I love you' to me too soon. I just wanted to date. He did not get that. I dont know why. It's beyond me. Anyway i cut him off of my life after his various charades. Yet, my faith in INTPs hasnt been altered despite him. That's a good thing i guess :proud: But i do miss him and what we had despite it's short life was really intense. I loved him but it was crazy and so it didn't even start, let alone last.
But still INTPs are cool. Very cool.
And religion wise- let her be. She isn't trying to alter your perspective is she? so don't question hers so heavily...her belief is not changing. I believe in God. But religion i think is a very capable way of creating divides between people.
 

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WELL. I would PM you my MSN info, but my post count is less than 15.

So you like INTPs, eh? This is good, this is good. What're your experiences with them?
Hehehehe....evn if you did post me ur MSN no. that wouldn't help. I don't have a MSN account! :tongue:
Yeah that was all i guess...see my started post threads. You'll see what happened.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
No i would disagree about the curiosity thing. That seems like a mislead. I'm an ISFP and I am very interested in learning. All i do is learn. And experiment. and make stuff. Knowledge is very important to me. And i think this applies to a lot of ISFPs.
I actually noticed this tonight. She does seem to be at the very least, selectively curious. I was sending her things from the "You know you're an INTP when..." thread. She googled them, found this website, went straight to the ISFP section, and opened the "You know you're an ISFP when..." thread. Without realizing that the most recent thread in the section was about her. I nearly poo'd.

Ooh and i suck at multitasking! :tongue:
She says it helps her write better when she can do multiple things at once. I guess the IP aspect can come through differently for different people.

Coming to the relationship part- i can totally relate. I had an INTP that i was interested in. He said 'I love you' to me too soon. I just wanted to date. He did not get that. I dont know why. It's beyond me. Anyway i cut him off of my life after his various charades. Yet, my faith in INTPs hasnt been altered despite him. That's a good thing i guess :proud: But i do miss him and what we had despite it's short life was really intense. I loved him but it was crazy and so it didn't even start, let alone last.
I've actually already told her that I love her, but I made it clear that I was NOT professing my undying romantic love for her. :crazy: I think I was able to let her know that she's important to me without invading her personal space. We've only gotten closer since then, at least.

Oh. And to an INTP, everything's a charade. But we shan't go into that unless you really want to. :tongue:

But still INTPs are cool. Very cool.
And religion wise- let her be. She isn't trying to alter your perspective is she? so don't question hers so heavily...her belief is not changing. I believe in God. But religion i think is a very capable way of creating divides between people.
No, she doesn't actively try to convert me. The topic came up in conversation, though, and I merely answered with a rationalization I thought would show her my perspective. I know it is, and I've made it clear that I'm still open to her religion, even if I dislike many aspects of it. I've told her that if she ever were to come across some piece of evidence that she thought was really good, to please, PLEASE tell me. And I was being honest as well. If she has the answers, by all means, I would like to have them as well.
 

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I actually noticed this tonight. She does seem to be at the very least, selectively curious. I was sending her things from the "You know you're an INTP when..." thread. She googled them, found this website, went straight to the ISFP section, and opened the "You know you're an ISFP when..." thread. Without realizing that the most recent thread in the section was about her. I nearly poo'd.

Oh. And to an INTP, everything's a charade. But we shan't go into that unless you really want to. :tongue:
Well my curiousity is not exactly selective but then again it is.
And i want you to go into the details of the charades.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well my curiousity is not exactly selective but then again it is.
Well, like I said, I have a ravenous curiosity about EVERYTHING. Anything less seems like a lot. (What's 90% of infinity?) Also, her Enneagram Type is 4w5, SP/SO/SX (ironically, my results reversed). So I suppose that self preservation being her highest instinct could cause that.

And i want you to go into the details of the charades.
Well, do you speak common languages? Do you wear clothes that you've bought at a store? More than that, are you discussing personalities with me based on a type given by an online test? I'm guessing the answers to these questions are all yes. They're charades, acts that you put on to find some sort of niche or common ground with other people. Granted, you're an ISFP, so you may do these things in a way that's pretty original and unique, but that doesn't change the fact. The ways you communicate, the words you use, they've all been learned from someplace or someone else. We INTPs, we know and can use many, if not most of these. Experimentation is a big part of an INTP's personality, as well. If he found that one method of communication or connection wasn't working with you, he would move on to another to reach his goal. Just because someone approaches you from many different angles (something we INTPs are very capable of doing) doesn't mean that he or she isn't genuine. In fact, it more demonstrates their determination. Now, your INTP man wasn't very prudent, obviously. (I read the other post of yours.) But I can see why he may have done what he did. If he saw the relationship between you and him as going nowhere, a dead-end, he most likely stuffed his emotions back inside and moved on to someone else who would accept them in a way that was comfortable for him.

(I'm just giving you the possibilities as I see them.)
 

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Logically words are limitations. Science is limitation. Everything that we say, do, invent is limited as are our thoughts. Niche is important because despite our supposed superior intelligence our brain cannot cope without having any stable ground.
So i would not call that a charade.
I get what you mean by what he did. I knew that and so that is why i cut our connections off. I hate doing that. But i have done it before and will do it again if it's necessary and no i don't mind being the bitch. I just somehow wish that NTs would see that like certain facts, certain emotions too are constant. And he'd have waited to see that. He didn't and even if i don't mind that i do mind that.
So yeah, it's not a charade.
nothing is a charade.
Knowledge cannot be a charade. And it is knowledge only what you learn about people, no matter what the numbers be.
 
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I like INTPs a lot, though for a romantic relationship to work I think multiple barriers would need to be broken down on both ends. Like you say, originality / individuality is huge and I'm happy to hear that INTPs value that too - I didn't know that. We do have a reputation of doing whatever we like regardless of the rules in place, so it's neat that you picked up on that.

To respond to some of your cons, I didn't know most ISFPs were religious, but you could be right. I'm personally not, but I think as long as neither of you try to force your beliefs on each other it shouldn't be a problem. Asking for a rationalization of her beliefs is totally fair in my opinion - if anyone has a strong belief in anything there should be some logic behind it. We are capable of having deep conversation, but we sometimes have problems initiating it and this is one of the barriers I was mentioning in the above paragraph. Also, I can understand your frustration in wanting this relation to progress quickly, but since July hasn't been that much time (ISFP speaking here xD). She might seem afraid, but what's stopping you from asking her directly? Are you afraid to scare her off or something? Maybe a gentle nudge is just what she needs. Emphasis on the gentle. If you're going to go in that direction, don't make it sound like your offer is all or nothing..that could illicit a trapped feeling which is one of our strongest aversions.
 

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If you're going to go in that direction, don't make it sound like your offer is all or nothing..that could illicit a trapped feeling which is one of our strongest aversions.
By the look of what he said in my context, i think with INTPs it is all or nothing?
 

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Awwwwwwww you two seem really cute GrandM! :]

I have sooo much experience with an INTP! OMG! It was INTENSE! In a very good way. It was actually perfect in a lot of ways. Long story on why we didn't stay together.

I'm with you on the religion subject. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to be able to believe in a God or higher being... but I just can't without seeing some kind of proof with my own eyes. I need facts, not stories. I have never looked down on or judged people for their beliefs. I just don't like when people try to tell me i'm wrong for not going to church or that i'm "living in sin" because my SO and I live together without being married. I just feel most comfortable living my own way of life as an honest good person and taking it day by day.

Guilty as charged with slow paced relationships! haha. There are many *good* reasons for it though.

As far as a pep talk, I would just continue to be you. I would just let the relationship blossom naturally and not worry too much about what to do and not to do. The relationship I had with the INTP came so natural. It sounds like yours does too. So from experience, an INTP-ISFP relationship can be a very good thing!
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
\
nothing is a charade.
But then how...?

i cut him off of my life after his various charades.

Ah well. You don't sound like an ISFP. :crazy:

Logically words are limitations. Science is limitation. Everything that we say, do, invent is limited as are our thoughts.
That depends on what you view as a limitation. Are limits the absolute greatest a given thing can ever be, or are they a boundary that we place to make ourselves comfortable? I'm inclined to say that they're the former. And as far as we know, there ARE no limits. At least, we've never reached them. Look at science, technology, the universe... where are the limits? Where does it end? We can always, ALWAYS make progress, so unless WE place the limits there, there are none. Now, I see your argument. For the moment, yes, everything we can do is limited by certain factors, but there really isn't a defined limit there. The ability to progress shows us that the limit we previously thought was there actually wasn't.

Niche is important because despite our supposed superior intelligence our brain cannot cope without having any stable ground.
I never said it wasn't important, I said it was a charade. Charades are important. How else would we accomplish anything with another person?

I get what you mean by what he did. I knew that and so that is why i cut our connections off. I hate doing that. But i have done it before and will do it again if it's necessary
Oh, you did? Well, that's good then. I just hope you can be a little less angry at him, as you understand why he did what he did.

and no i don't mind being the bitch.
I <3 that about ISFPs. Just sayin'.

I just somehow wish that NTs would see that like certain facts, certain emotions too are constant. And he'd have waited to see that. He didn't and even if i don't mind that i do mind that.
Well, I've been an NF before, as well. I often mistype as an NF as well, because of my 4 wing. I don't think it's so much that an emotion is constant (they are ever-changing), as it is the IDEA of the emotion is constant. And also, is English your first language? I don't mind if it isn't, and I'm not trying to be an ass, but that last sentence was just a bit hard to understand. Could you clarify, perhaps?

Knowledge cannot be a charade. And it is knowledge only what you learn about people, no matter what the numbers be.
I agree with this. Knowledge, ideas, and individuals (of course, I kind of think individuals ARE ideas) are the only absolutes.



My, we're getting sidetracked. Got any advice for me?
 

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omg, so much other stuff was posted while I was writing my post. hahaha! I'm so used to there not being any posts for a few hours at a time here in the ISFP section. lol

I like everything you said about religion RyRy :). I was just reading last night that religion is usually more of a N thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I like INTPs a lot, though for a romantic relationship to work I think multiple barriers would need to be broken down on both ends. Like you say, originality / individuality is huge and I'm happy to hear that INTPs value that too - I didn't know that. We do have a reputation of doing whatever we like regardless of the rules in place, so it's neat that you picked up on that.
Jeezus, yes. INTPs often feel alienated because their thought processes are just so different. It's awesome to find a kindred spirit.

To respond to some of your cons, I didn't know most ISFPs were religious, but you could be right.
I think it was Kiersey that said that? It was one of those popular "Type Outlines" on the first google page, hahah.

Asking for a rationalization of her beliefs is totally fair in my opinion - if anyone has a strong belief in anything there should be some logic behind it.
And yeah, she does have a rather amazing rationalization behind it. She donated bone marrow to save one of her younger siblings from leukemia. She says he wouldn't have made it without God's help. *shrug* (I hope she's okay with me mentioning this, as she's staying anonymous, here.)

We are capable of having deep conversation, but we sometimes have problems initiating it and this is one of the barriers I was mentioning in the above paragraph.
Yes, I think this stems from the necessary flow of the conversation. I try to direct it from time to time, but the success rate doesn't instill a lot of confidence. I think if we were actually in a relationship, she would be comfortable enough with me simply dropping the heavier issues into her lap.

Also, I can understand your frustration in wanting this relation to progress quickly, but since July hasn't been that much time (ISFP speaking here xD).
I realize that, hahah. We INTPs live in our minds. Time is very very relative to us, and we can get a whole hell of a lot done in a short period of time if we're genuinely interested in it. It works great when it comes to scientific theories, and things like that, but it can cause us to be impatient with people.

She might seem afraid, but what's stopping you from asking her directly? Are you afraid to scare her off or something?
This is where the laughs shall begin. Neither of us have ever been in a relationship before, (for the record, I'm 17, and she's 16) so there's some anxiety there on her part. Also, she is DEFINITELY not comfortable with her life. Her privacy is pretty much always invaded by her siblings and parents. I think if she were in a comfortable environment, we would already be in a relationship, but she's obviously not.

Maybe a gentle nudge is just what she needs. Emphasis on the gentle. If you're going to go in that direction, don't make it sound like your offer is all or nothing..that could illicit a trapped feeling which is one of our strongest aversions.
Thanks, hahah. I kind of thought the nudging was in order. I've been trying that, though. Every time we broach the subject of our implicit compatibility, I point it out. Considering how many times we've reached that conclusion, I'd have thought it would be obvious. She just seems to have this natural aversion to anything to do with her being in a relationship. I was able to coax a description out of her, of the physical sensation she gets when the subject comes up. It's that of anxiousness, plain and simple. And she always seems so relieved when the subject moves on.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
By the look of what he said in my context, i think with INTPs it is all or nothing?
It generally is. Oh man, you have no idea how difficult it is to keep my feelings under control. I think a good metaphor for how things work would be a stereo. For most of the Fs, they have a volume knob. They can adjust the volume of sound (emotion) that is played (expressed). Some can even turn the volume knob all the way down, so there is no sound playing (no emotions coming into play) at all. But they can never actually turn the power off. The music (emotions) will always be there. For INTPs, it's the opposite. We usually have no volume knob. The stereo is always at full blast, and all we can do is turn the power on or off.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Oh look! I found the + button!

Awwwwwwww you two seem really cute GrandM! :]
Hahah, thanks. I share that sentiment.

I have sooo much experience with an INTP! OMG! It was INTENSE! In a very good way. It was actually perfect in a lot of ways. Long story on why we didn't stay together.
I imagine there isn't a short version? Ah well, it's still good to hear that things were good for you guys. And "intense" is a favored positive adjective of hers.

I'm with you on the religion subject. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to be able to believe in a God or higher being... but I just can't without seeing some kind of proof with my own eyes. I need facts, not stories. I have never looked down on or judged people for their beliefs. I just don't like when people try to tell me i'm wrong for not going to church or that i'm "living in sin" because my SO and I live together without being married. I just feel most comfortable living my own way of life as an honest good person and taking it day by day.
Yeah, I live in the bible-belt. Fill in the blanks. :crazy:

Guilty as charged with slow paced relationships! haha. There are many *good* reasons for it though.
I don't doubt it, but do you mind sharing some of them?

As far as a pep talk, I would just continue to be you. I would just let the relationship blossom naturally and not worry too much about what to do and not to do. The relationship I had with the INTP came so natural. It sounds like yours does too. So from experience, an INTP-ISFP relationship can be a very good thing!
Yep, things would be much easier if we lived closer together. She USED to live here, in my city, but that was before I knew her. Now she lives four hours away. It's a manageable distance, I suppose. It's easily drivable. Things could certainly be worse. But this isn't going to help things progress any faster. If it's any help, we're both considering colleges in the same town. Myself for Neuroscience, and she for an Art/English double-major, in case you were interested.

Definitely. That's why I'm trying to advise against it if possible.
Yes, and I'm avoiding it as much as possible. It isn't easy, though. Recently, she's pushed some bad buttons to press if she doesn't want a relationship. I've only had my protective instinct cued up this heavily once before, and it wasn't pretty. She was around at that time, actually, so she saw what happened. She's familiar with the results. I told her that she was "pressing buttons she wasn't ready to press", yet she seemed pretty alright with it, all things considered. Her response was, "I'm sure I am," and she then apologized and tried to change the subject.
 

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I once knew an INTP with ADD... I liked her (as a person) but the other members of the staff couldn't stand her because of the random comments she makes. I always wondered why people are so quick to judge, herself in this case, because of something so frivolous. She was a really nice person
 
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