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I myself believe to be both of the two, I'm curious to see if you people consider there to be a link between them...
 

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No, I don't think there is a link between INTPs & schizoids specifically. I think there's a link between high intelligence & schizoids however. Also people who are ambidextrous, who are also usually more intelligent than average.
 

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the self proclaimed schizoids lve met tended to be on the misanthropic side and much less curious than NPs. intellectually and socially.

Do consider that those who are self-proclaimed may have a vague understanding of the label and merely be assholes, though.

Don't confuse it with schizotypal. l never knew much about that one, l now wonder if my aunt has STPD. l used to think she just had a very mild case of schizophrenia (my father is schizophrenic and so is their other sister).

l'd say those people are way more similar to NPs in general but the diagnostic criteria basically includes hallucinations and delusions, so yeah. A step beyond lol.
 
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The PsychForum board on Schizoid Disorder was actually my gateway to discovering MBTI. I randomly stumbled upon the Wikipedia page for the disorder during a research session and felt a lot of it rang true for me. It was a strange time. I started frequenting the PsychForum board and really sympathized with these people, their dark humor, and their sense of alienation from "most people". Remember, this was before I had any knowledge of typology, so it was all a bit vague and lots of projection was involved. I got obsessed and started feeling incredibly lonely, even getting an eery sense of being some sort of Lucifer, or challenger, released upon the world to criticize and reform it from a position of sublime isolation.

After like two weeks of that, I started noticing how people would refer to a number of MBTI types (mostly INTP and INFJ) on the boards and I filled out the test on similarminds.com. I read some profiles, notable the one on intp.org and realized that I didn't have any disorder - just extreme NP-ness. It was like a ton of weight fell off my shoulders and since then, MBTI and functions theory have changed my thoughts and life thoroughly.

I do believe there could be a link, but I wouldn't theorize on what kind of correlation we're talking about. On the other hand, there might be other people like me, who wrongly diagnose themselves with disorders, because they don't understand their own personality, or don't see that they're not alone being weird, or that all those seemingly normal people also have their own sorts of doubts and crosses to bear.
 

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the self proclaimed schizoids lve met tended to be on the misanthropic side and much less curious than NPs. intellectually and socially.

Do consider that those who are self-proclaimed may have a vague understanding of the label and merely be assholes, though.
Unfortunately I'm on the misanthropic side. Got highs and lows, but lets face it - life isn't exactly throwing anything my to prove me wrong rather than underlining the trait.

Reading Fritz Rielmann's "Anxiety" provides quite a lot of insight into the problematic. Most wiki entries suck balls due to shallowness and at best cause strong misconceptions. Much like I wouldn't associate asshattery with schizoid at all, as it doesn't co-relate whatsoever.

As previously stated Schizoid isn't exactly type related, although some types have it easier to fall into the spectrum. It is likely true that it is mostly related to general/overall intelligence than type specific. What is important to understand about Schizoid is that their emotions and perception don't ever mesh (for most part) and thus they are mostly incapable of establishing bonds with others that go past superficiality. Intellectually they're the wise old man in their 60's 70's while they remained a 10 year old emotionally. As such misanthropy is often a result for they cannot comprehend 'normal' people's behavior and vice versa. Quite frankly however, to me those normal people are the real maniacs.

Also, Schizoid is often perceived as superiority by others, when it is in fact fear at work of the individual's side. Fear of intimacy - unless the person in question can be trusted (which is rarely the case). They also often have diminished impulses and desires - as a result most Schizoids don't care about relationships necessarily and/or can live without sex - in fact masturbation is a lot easier than the hassle attached to maintaining a relationship of any kind. Schizoids are easily capable of seeing all the drama and suffering emotions cause, and thus have good reasons to not go there. They feel save in the distance - which is exactly what most others perceive as aforementioned superiority.

You must differ between the extremes of schizoid tendencies. It's a large greyscale most people fall into. There's the positive traits and the bad ones. Assuming you were a complete Schizoid your egocentricity would fall out of whack. Whatever happens around you, regardless of how trivial and non.saying it may be, you would relate it to yourself and sink into paranoia as to what it means and is trying to do to you.

Another important thing to note is that a Schizoid's job will always be just that. They have no real drive or motivation to 'get anywhere' (for whatever that is worth) as most these things stem from emotional energy - thus they dive into their hobbies at home while doing whatever they can to make just enough money to live the life they please. Generally quite a simple one.

I am self-diagnosed for most part and I don't doubt I'd get it on paper if I tried - but inevitably I like things the way they are. I merely must remember to maintain my distance to not sink into small-mindedness that'll suck me into an emotional rollercoaster I can't deal with.

The basic fear schizoids have is the fear of self-loss / engulfment - they consider emotions to be threatening to their being and are afraid of being swept away by them. It's basically a fear that their being will be extinguished if they sink too deep into the swamp.

As such it may be plausible/possible to overcome it by training/experience, but a lot of learning would be involved and more importantly the peers you can trust on a deeper level. Reality however looks this way: Most people will long be gone and mostly fed up by you, your distance and coldness prior such an intimate relationship is established - this is where it becomes a self-feeding cycle that is hard to escape.

However, it is only diagnosed if you actually do suffer from that self-feeding cycle. I have on occasion, but I think for what parts I share from the disorder I'm pretty balanced - at least it's never been enough to get me to a doctor or otherwise help.

Last but not least, this describes a schizoid quite well - but bear in mind, much like MBTI text descriptions, it is just that. A text description.

http://www.reichandlowentherapy.org/Content/Character/Schizoid/schizoid_dreamer.html

When feelings are asked about, cognitions, general philosophical positions, and assessments of future prospects are usually given as answers. For this reason it is often said of this character that there is a dissociation between thought and feeling, and that is so. Almost more importantly, there is a dissociation between perception and feeling. [...]

The link between desire and impulse is weak. [...]
These are really the make it or break it parts that would warrant a diagnosis, for me anyway.

I'd also dare to say that most true schizoids, at least those with a certain minimum severity can most certainly accurately diagnose themselves - mostly because they have actually experienced the threat and fear of annihilation emotional entanglement causes them.
 

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Hmmm very interesting. I never can get a dx for anything specific. I really seem to be all over the charts of pd. Decided to try and figure out something positive about my personality(/ies?) and took that test that brought me here. Reading about the strengths only of this type I thought I should retake it as maybe I wasn't being honest but still got the intp result. Read further, about the weaknesses, which is me to the letter. I've always been in the worst environment for my type and kept inprisoned by and surrounded by the n and developed pd pretty early in life. And in learning finally how to avoidand deflect their abuse I feel like I'm turning into antisocial. Likely self deception and I'm starting to doubt there really is such a thing. More like ptsd from being abused by those assholes, but I've only recently gotten into this research and not have read nearly enough. Szpd traits I've noticed in myself for the last five years though; especially the sexuality aspect of it
 

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The internet diagnosed me as a schizoid. Does that count?
 

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The internet diagnosed me as a schizoid. Does that count?
Can't be trusted. I test as schizoid too and I'm definitely not. I just like hanging by myself, I prefer to do stuff on my own, I may think I'm superior than the average fellow, I'm cold and detached, I'm indifferent to praise or criticism, indifferent to social norms, I lack empathy
BUUUT
I love my family and I enjoy being a part of it, I'm not afraid of intimacy, I'm not asexual, I have some friends other than first degree relatives, and I enjoy doing more than 'a few or none' activities.

It's the symptoms that I don't have that make you schizoid. Tests often focus on the possible side effects of the actual symptoms, a very crappy way to test for a disorder. Dumb, dumb tests.
 

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Can't be trusted. I test as schizoid too and I'm definitely not. I just like hanging by myself, I prefer to do stuff on my own, I may think I'm superior than the average fellow, I'm cold and detached, I'm indifferent to praise or criticism, indifferent to social norms, I lack empathy
BUUUT
I love my family and I enjoy being a part of it, I'm not afraid of intimacy, I'm not asexual, I have some friends other than first degree relatives, and I enjoy doing more than 'a few or none' activities.

It's the symptoms that I don't have that make you schizoid. Tests often focus on the possible side effects of the actual symptoms, a very crappy way to test for a disorder. Dumb, dumb tests.
l'd agree here. The tests are awful and large number of introverts could fit the criteria,originally developed when you actually still had something like ''introverted PD" in the DSM anyway, so they didn't really bother to distinguish normal introverted behavior from many of the diagnoses.

Those who l spoke with who actually received the diagnosis were on the dull side. Diagnosed Schizoids can actually be of below average or average intelligence quite often. The smarter ones who self-diagnose misunderstand the label and equate it with being a loner.

l was being pretty liberal with the therm "misanthropic'', no interest in intellectual discussion with each other, discussion of any sort and more childish than anything. Just an active aversion to speak with anyone. And a lot of the social dominance game happening, very unlike NTs in that way.

l saw a lot of motivation to own someone in conversation for no real reason.

So psychiatrists must be looking for those traits more so that what's in the books. when making the diagnosis.
 

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The PsychForum board on Schizoid Disorder was actually my gateway to discovering MBTI. I randomly stumbled upon the Wikipedia page for the disorder during a research session and felt a lot of it rang true for me. It was a strange time. I started frequenting the PsychForum board and really sympathized with these people, their dark humor, and their sense of alienation from "most people". Remember, this was before I had any knowledge of typology, so it was all a bit vague and lots of projection was involved. I got obsessed and started feeling incredibly lonely, even getting an eery sense of being some sort of Lucifer, or challenger, released upon the world to criticize and reform it from a position of sublime isolation.

After like two weeks of that, I started noticing how people would refer to a number of MBTI types (mostly INTP and INFJ) on the boards and I filled out the test on similarminds.com. I read some profiles, notable the one on intp.org and realized that I didn't have any disorder - just extreme NP-ness. It was like a ton of weight fell off my shoulders and since then, MBTI and functions theory have changed my thoughts and life thoroughly.

I do believe there could be a link, but I wouldn't theorize on what kind of correlation we're talking about. On the other hand, there might be other people like me, who wrongly diagnose themselves with disorders, because they don't understand their own personality, or don't see that they're not alone being weird, or that all those seemingly normal people also have their own sorts of doubts and crosses to bear.
Yea, I do think that INTs & other introspective types have similar characteristics to schizoids, and also are therefore, potentially, more apt to develop those feelings of alienation, etc.
 

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I didn't know what Schizoid meant, but now to me it just seems like some kind of useless label of personnality with extreme introversion traits, more than an actual disorder.
 

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I wouldn't consider a difficulty to create emotional intimate relationships necessarily a trait of extreme introversion
l wouldn't either, l think what's said about making the diagnosis on the basis of having a similar lifestyle as a schizoid being flawed is true. There seems to be an innate difficulty with communication in the group based in something far deeper than a lack of interest.

l'm not sure how the criteria described it, more like a lack of expression which people determine as being the result of a lack of interest but it seems that for those who are diagnosed, they are actually unable to be expressive for reasons more closely related to neurology.

That would be similar to the actual ''negative'' symptoms in schizophrenia, which is possible since some with SPD have a genetic background of the disorder.
 

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l wouldn't either, l think what's said about making the diagnosis on the basis of having a similar lifestyle as a schizoid being flawed is true. There seems to be an innate difficulty with communication in the group based in something far deeper than a lack of interest.

l'm not sure how the criteria described it, more like a lack of expression which people determine as being the result of a lack of interest but it seems that for those who are diagnosed, they are actually unable to be expressive for reasons more closely related to neurology.

That would be similar to the actual ''negative'' symptoms in schizophrenia, which is possible since some with SPD have a genetic background of the disorder.
That was a very good explanation, I agree. It also kind of sounds like Asperger's Syndrome to me.
 

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That was a very good explanation, I agree. It also kind of sounds like Asperger's Syndrome to me.
Exactly, l was thinking so but wasn't going to mention the link lol. oddly enough the two are confused and diagnosed as the same thing pretty frequently O_O

and both exist more frequently in families that have higher rates of full blown schizophrenics. l investigated all of these disorders since l have the same background, l guess l got off lucky with just turning out weird lol.

Oh, what tangles webs. lt seems almost like a version of Asperger's that doesn't include the positive cognitive abilities and intellectual curiousity.
 

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Asperger's is autism, while being schizoid is not.

Quite a difference ;)

Still, you can trash those DSM criterias -They're a complete joke and couldn't hardly be more superficial so that anyone and their mom would fit the description(s) listed in that catalog.

Yet, if you insist of throwing together all these things together might as well look up alexithymia.
 

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Asperger's is autism, while being schizoid is not.

Quite a difference ;)

Still, you can trash those DSM criterias -They're a complete joke and couldn't hardly be more superficial so that anyone and their mom would fit the description(s) listed in that catalog.

Yet, if you insist of throwing together all these things together might as well look up alexithymia.
The two are genetically related and were once considered the same thing. Autism was actually first described as ''childhood schizophrenia''. Still occur in families together pretty frequently.

There's an ongoing argument in the psych community about how similar autism and schizophrenia in general are, the differences between SPD and asperger's is even less clear.

But there is still an issue with some adults who simply have autism being diagnosed with a schizophrenic spectrum disorder. Less common now that more doctors understand Asperger's.

The spectrum is misunderstood by doctors, l have a cousin who was diagnosed with schizophrenia and IMO she is probably just a schizoid.

lt's interesting when you really look into it, the two disorders are historically misunderstood.
 

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[...] the differences between SPD and asperger's is even less clear.
I consider them to be quite obvious - Not so much by outside observation and/or the DSM catalogue, though.

One would have to move beyond some wiki articles to compare the two, though. As previously stated Fritz Riemann's book 'Anxiety' gives a clear insight of the schizoid spectrum. Also schizoids are still quite capable of adapting a social persona to get through life just fine if need be, although the persona represents zero of their core values. That's something most Asperger's won't ever be capable of - at least judging by the one person I know irl. Likewise schizoids do not have any rigid borderline compulsive behaviour they need as if their lives depended on it, dying thousands of death and stress out of seemingly minor things (for outsiders). Last but not least most schizoids, due to their nature of impulse, desire and emotion not meshing together with experience are prone to most likely not experience any or little pleasure from activities. That doesn't mean they'll limit their activities or compulsively stick to fields they excel in (although chances are they'll prefer it, albeit in a non-compulsive way) - it's more like a giant void within the person, true indifference. If everything is the same (pleasure wise) you might as well do/try it all, or not all. No difference to be had/felt/experienced.

I typically give people an analogy of my inner being like this; Imagine a garden eden, flourishing, green, vast. Now put that garden into an inaccessible fort with 10 ton brick walls and locks and gates that are impenetrable by whatever means. May it be from the outside or inside. You know it's there, you know its potential but you can't tap on it whatsoever.

This describes it quite well for me. And for those now following up on this, that garden eden would be my emotional stream - I'd like to think anyway.

Still, I'm not so foolish to believe it is in fact incurable (to an extend), but I doubt it would be through therapy rather than finding a save haven that allows you to slowly accept the challenge and helps you with it.

I don't doubt that many doctors are quick to jump the gun when it comes to diagnoses which may be false. Additionally, chances are that without enough insight of the individual regarding itself you won't ever truly know which one is at work.

Issue I'm seeing is that many of these disorders rely too much on the social interaction part. Going by that every introvert is technically a maniac - and there's plenty of disorders to pick from.
 

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I consider them to be quite obvious - Not so much by outside observation and/or the DSM catalogue, though.

One would have to move beyond some wiki articles to compare the two, though. As previously stated Fritz Riemann's book 'Anxiety' gives a clear insight of the schizoid spectrum. Also schizoids are still quite capable of adapting a social persona to get through life just fine if need be, although the persona represents zero of their core values. That's something most Asperger's won't ever be capable of - at least judging by the one person I know irl. Likewise schizoids do not have any rigid borderline compulsive behaviour they need as if their lives depended on it, dying thousands of death and stress out of seemingly minor things (for outsiders). Last but not least most schizoids, due to their nature of impulse, desire and emotion not meshing together with experience are prone to most likely not experience any or little pleasure from activities. That doesn't mean they'll limit their activities or compulsively stick to fields they excel in (although chances are they'll prefer it, albeit in a non-compulsive way) - it's more like a giant void within the person, true indifference. If everything is the same (pleasure wise) you might as well do/try it all, or not all. No difference to be had/felt/experienced.

I typically give people an analogy of my inner being like this; Imagine a garden eden, flourishing, green, vast. Now put that garden into an inaccessible fort with 10 ton brick walls and locks and gates that are impenetrable by whatever means. May it be from the outside or inside. You know it's there, you know its potential but you can't tap on it whatsoever.

This describes it quite well for me. And for those now following up on this, that garden eden would be my emotional stream - I'd like to think anyway.

Still, I'm not so foolish to believe it is in fact incurable (to an extend), but I doubt it would be through therapy rather than finding a save haven that allows you to slowly accept the challenge and helps you with it.

I don't doubt that many doctors are quick to jump the gun when it comes to diagnoses which may be false. Additionally, chances are that without enough insight of the individual regarding itself you won't ever truly know which one is at work.

Issue I'm seeing is that many of these disorders rely too much on the social interaction part. Going by that every introvert is technically a maniac - and there's plenty of disorders to pick from.
l agree with you. l was implying more so that doctors often do diagnose people who have Asperger's with SPD. So you have aspies in the group, sometimes they get the Asperger's label later.

lt makes it hard to tel the difference between the two groups, especially when you also have actual schizoids who are diagnosed with AS.

Because of the historic misunderstanding of both groups there are still a lot of errors made.

l do think people who self-diagnose with SPD are interpreting the criteria a little too liberally, though. Just my opinion, those who are unlike the "true" (if the true schizoids are those with a genetic background)schizoids are probably just normal, extreme introverts.

But it isn't their fault because when the criteria was first developed,being extremely introverted would have also been considered abnormal. There was thing as Introverted Personality Disorder in the DSM then.

When things like "lack of expressiveness" are discussed, a doctor may be looking for someone who has an actual inability to express emotion, which is much different than someone who is just reserved.


l think it's also important to seperate the two groups of schizoids...those who actually come from a family with the genetic background of autistic or schizophrenic disorders are more likely impacted by their neurology. they really shouldn't be in the same group.

Also it's weird that they would even label people who may be affected by genetics as having a personality disorder. So much of what's been developed in the DSM and carried on (though modified) is still based on ancient ideas surrounding mental health.

A person who simply becomes schizoid in behavior is that way for a number of reasons, these would be the types that are more likely to be capable of acting as completely normal people.

l'm not introverted enough to be a schizoid but relate with that description, l'm more than capable of acting completely normal and choose to have periods of introversion because l'm not interested in sharing my thoughts.

There's always a place in my mind l can go that's basically an island, sometimes l don't even feel like l'm in real life as it'a happening. l'd just consider myself an extrovert who like to spend more time in my head, though. l'm kind of "split" between reality and my mind.

Fortunately this only resulted in an ADHD diagnosis lol. But then you could even question the real origin of ADHD, people experience it differently though.

To some extent l don't think it matters because l wonder how much longer this label will actually exist, those who are affected by genetics are a different group and those who are just very introverted don't even have a real disorder.
 
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Asperger's is autism, while being schizoid is not.

Quite a difference ;)

Still, you can trash those DSM criterias -They're a complete joke and couldn't hardly be more superficial so that anyone and their mom would fit the description(s) listed in that catalog.

Yet, if you insist of throwing together all these things together might as well look up alexithymia.

Are you sure the DSM IV criteria are jokes? I seriously doubt many people would fit most of the (fairly detailed in many instances, in my opinion) of mental illnesses like depression, schizophrenia, bipolar,etc. It even gets updated fairly consistently, with results coming from both clinical and basic research of mental illnesses. I mean, many psychiatrists consider it as the "bible of psychiatry", I'm sure if the DSM IV was a complete joke, these doctors wouldn't be referring to it so often. Sure, it's not perfect, but research in a field like psychiatry is difficult (my brother told me his prof in med school even went as far as saying some even consider psychiatriy to be 50 years behind other fields in medicine in terms of advancement in research), and I'm sure the people in charge of editing the DSM IV are doing the best of their abilities. It even gets (fairly consistently) updated with data gathered from both basic and clinical psychiatric research; again, I wouldn't call its criteria a complete joke if (fairly educated) people are gathering their information from the latest and greatest in the research.

For example, from the last time I perused it, there were fairly descriptive terms used for many illnesses, which I seriously find hard believing that "anyone and their mom would fit the description(s) listed in that catalog." If I remember correctly, there was quite a lot describing the difference between being sad and having major depression, even including aspects like psychomotor agitation, weight loss, etc. along with the major bouts of depressive episodes (i.e. fitting multiple criteria research has observed in the many patients with major depression). Also, usually people are never just classified has having "X disorder" just by exhibiting minor instances of 1 or 2 symptoms, there usually has to be a pattern of repeated instances of certain behaviours (again, which the DSM IV gathers from the latest ( and more credible) data (which is why many accept it in the medical community), so again I doubt every average joe can fit the criteria and experience it for a certain amount at a certain intensity. For example, you don't usually get diagnosed with OCD unless you have experience symptoms consistently for a month and in order to be classified as a schizophrenic, you need months of consistent attitudes linked to the negative symptoms (anhedonia, avolition, social withdrawal,etc.) and around a month of the positive symptoms (delusion, hallucinations,etc).

Also, the DSM IV isn't a cookbook, you need clinical training to properly interpret its definitions and criteria. This is the main reasoning why the belief that every Tom and Sally can fit the criteria, you need to possess quite a bit of knowledge to properly apply that knowledge to truly distinguish people who do and do not exhibit symptoms of mental disorders. My brother spent a copious amount of time just learning the medical theory behind many of the definitions in the DSM IV during his psych rounds, and he said it made a huge difference in learning how to properly apply the terms to which people (and how much more selective it was than initially meets the eye).
 
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