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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What are your thoughts on your personal experience between you, an INTP, and the job (meaning your colleagues, bosses, rules, etc. front where you are from?

I find myself to be relatively easy to get along with at work, but I'm very distracted a lot of the time. I learn fast, meet expectations, and never cause trouble. I often put myself on the dl and don't try to get noticed because I don't want to conform and then I miss out on rewards for doing well. I tend to conspire about the big cheeses of the institution because I feel as if giving me a reward for good behaviour is like throwing a dog a bone for rolling over on command.

Do other INTPs have trouble doing exceptionally at work because of this reason?
I'm thinking that if others do experience these thoughts, it is connected to our tendency to feel like those in executive positions are always trying to bring us down so they can keep controlling us....
What are your enlightening thoughts, INTPs (and others who know INTPs)?
 

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黐線 ~Chiseen~
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I tend to conspire about the big cheeses of the institution because I feel as if giving me a reward for good behaviour is like throwing a dog a bone for rolling over on command.

I recommend reading a book called "The One Minute Manager". My boss made us read this book to help understand some methodologies incorporated to run a department.

In one of their methodologies / examples, to reward a worker is to give them more work. At first, I couldn't believe what I was reading, but it made sense. The more work stockpiled onto a worker, the more experience and knowledge they obtain. However, for an INTP, redundant workloads tire us out easily providing very little challenge. This is where rewriting workflows to increase efficiency comes in, and INTP's excel in that nature.

However, that's not to say we trap ourselves or write ourselves out of a job... There's always that need for job security from fellow co-workers when automation comes into play. This is where co-workers / peers, may plot against the INTP. In their minds, the INTP is making things 'too easy' where change is on the horizon and comfort zones are breached, which shouldn't be the case.

Stagnancy in the workplace does not allow the business to grow, thus change is required. However, there are departments run by board members who are cutthroat and care only their department and not others. Every corporation has an annual budget to divide for use for each individual department. If the company does not bring value or return to meet margins, rest assured a department or series of departments will get shut down and outsourced. This is the reality of running a corporation.

This doesn't tangent off from original thought. In the book, it explains why certain managers do what they do. They do not delegate work just because they are lazy. It is because they want to bring in more projects from the pipeline in for the workers. And workers complain when there's work, but they don't complain when there's no work. The money has to come from somewhere, but most people won't admit nor think of the repercussions of being lazy. Going to work to collect a paycheck without doing work is no different from collecting welfare; just sit and do nothing. While this may seem tempting, it's pretty much a waste of talents, time, intelligence, and manpower.

The problem is weeding out the good people from the bad people and from that group, the enthusiastic vs. the unmotivated ones... both workers and managers alike.

Do other INTPs have trouble doing exceptionally at work because of this reason?
I'm thinking that if others do experience these thoughts, it is connected to our tendency to feel like those in executive positions are always trying to bring us down so they can keep controlling us....
What are your enlightening thoughts, INTPs (and others who know INTPs)?
When I first started working, I thought being the helpful person was all that was required to sustain a secure job / position. This is not the case. INTP's may be too ingrained in refining processes, but remember... refining processes should only be done in the presence or acknowledgement of a good manager or series of managers. They keep tallies on the bigger picture for you. But you too, are responsible for looking and evaluating at the bigger picture as well.

If too much time you spent is on the smaller picture, your efforts may be all for naught. Although you may be helping to win every battle, you may not be helping your department win the war (as explained above).

Tap into your good managers and leaders for guidance and support then you will have the wisdom and power to manipulate the inner workings of corporations like nobody's business.

And it's good to build repertoire and have great inter-departmental partners to help you out. Although at first, all this may seem overwhelming to an INTP to fathom; i.e. networking, organizing, managing, delegating, etc., once you get the tidbits of how things function, how people generally are, how your team members behave, you can puppetmaster greatness. ONLY if you do not become a lazy minded drone.

my two cents.
 

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I've survived at this company solely because my boss is a former engineer and knows how to manage that type of employee. It also helps that I was employee #3, so we've pretty much been following the starving startup workplace mentality for most of my tenure here. We tend to be pretty light on formal rules. No real dress code, no set hours (within reason), etc.

His management style is pretty simple: he gives me an assignment and leaves me the hell alone until I finish it. If I have questions, I ask. If not, we meet again a week or two later to go over what's been completed.

I've had micromanagers who are always checking in, doing daily meetings, etc. A week or two in and I'm trying to set them on fire with my mind every time I see them.

As far as coworkers go, I rarely socialize with them. If there's a company outing to a bar/pub/etc, I go just to keep myself visible in the company. Otherwise, I'm there to work, not to stand around shooting the shit for fifteen minutes. There are three people that I have developed some semblance of a working relationship with, but these are all people who I've worked with over the years at previous companies. Mostly we have to work together for a year or more before I even talk to you. For perspective, I spent 18 months onsite at a client's facility. At the end of that time, I was known as "network guy" to a group of EE's who shared an office next door to mine. In all that time we had never met.

I'm not unfriendly toward coworkers, I just don't like being distracted. I work from home 3x a week and have my office door closed at all times to discourage people from coming by. Not because I dislike them, I'm just busy and don't like being interrupted. Send me an email or an IM and I'll get back to you when I'm at a good stopping point.
 

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3 reasons why most employers hate me:

1. I don't see the point in authority, ranking or social standings and I hardly ever acknowledge them. This doesn't mean I don't show respect it just means I don't sugarcoat how I talk and I don't kiss up to my boss. This also doesn't mean I treat them like a friend, I just treat them like a normal everyday person.

2. I get work done quickly in my own way and usually end up making processes more efficient by doing so. Apparently most employers hate this and they would rather have me work for 5 hours doing nothing important than doing that work in 1 hour. I remember one employer I had was incredibly mad at me for getting something done in 40 minutes that took her 4 hours.

3. I get relaxed really easily and am somewhat easy going at all times. I find it really easy to just relax in the work place or wherever and it shows in my posture, how I sit at my desk and how I talk to people. Most of my employers seemed angry that I was so chill all the time even when they were yelling at me. I was even relaxed when pointing out major flaws in how something was done or whatever.

I am either going to start my own company or just do freelance work because I would rather not deal with being threatened to be fired every time I act like who I am. I hate the idea or notion that you should put on a face when you go to work. My mom does it all the time and it just makes me furious.
 

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I would think if we were all aware that these are the sorts of things that can cause problems for us that we'd be at an advantage. Spread the word, everyone.

I work with fellow employees who cannot get past certain things that I may not have any trouble dealing with. Some people can't multi-task. Some people can't start working before being energized by a conversation. Others can't tune out personal problems that to me seem trivial. Some people can't handle interruptions. We tend to be very adaptable that way.

On the other hand, we probably suck at customer service, planning a week in advance, leading meetings etc.

I think one of our biggest issue is that a lot of high ups want to get a good read on everyone so they can plan 5, 10, 15 years down the line and find a niche for us. Do we all know what it is we want to do when we first start at a new company? Not necessarily. I believe that has been my biggest weakness. If you have a goal oriented boss, work with them. Throw them the bone. Give them something so they can talk about you to the other high ups and have good feedback or they'll have no idea what to make of you.
 

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黐線 ~Chiseen~
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On the other hand, we probably suck at customer service, planning a week in advance, leading meetings etc.

I happen to deal very well with customer service. What I do abhor are repeat instances of issues that were already addressed and fixed; i.e. say a malware or virus hit that was caused by internet explorer when I distinctly recommended them to use Firefox and Chrome. I can fix it for them a second time, but if it happens again, that shit can get old really truly quickly.

With customer service, as long as the customer can provide ample details and able to reproduce the issue in front of my presence, I have no problems with assisting. But to call me up and say 'the internet is not working. I think the server is down.' I just blank stare at the phone even though they can't see me.

Now SALES, on the other hand... I have an issue with... I can feed factual information all day and night to patrons. It's closing the sale is what I have trouble with. I can't read quite a lot of people because I do not have enough time to observe them. Worse yet if they're introverted perceivers at the same time... so damn difficult and mundane, the task of making commission...
 

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In every job or internship I've had, people have been impressed with my hard work. But at the same time they clearly can't grasp the concept of not-social.
 

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I dislike the application process. An unqualified extrovert has a much better chance at getting my potential career because they're a better speaker than me. The fact that it's a formality to send a thank you note after an interview irks me. A world run by INTPs wouldn't give a shit about pointless things like that. It makes you no more qualified than you really are.

I applied to over 30 fucking minimum wage jobs before getting hired. Thanks baby boomers!

I've been at my first job for about a month now at Kohl's. I'm getting along well with my coworkers and managers and the job itself isn't all that bad.
 

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2. I get work done quickly in my own way and usually end up making processes more efficient by doing so. Apparently most employers hate this and they would rather have me work for 5 hours doing nothing important than doing that work in 1 hour. I remember one employer I had was incredibly mad at me for getting something done in 40 minutes that took her 4 hours.
You'd love a client I worked for at one point. They did a modified Scrum for project management. Every task/bug fix had a estimate in points, and they defined one point as one day of work. But tasks couldn't be assigned anything below 0.5 points. So a 15-minute bug fix had to be scheduled as a four hour (0.5 points) task. Each person was given 10 points of work for each two-week cycle, as that corresponded to 10 days of work, and tasks couldn't be added or assigned in the middle of a cycle.

There were times when I'd get a lot of those short bug fixes with inflated estimates, and I'd spend three days in a week with no tasks to work on. And they thought that was a perfectly normal way to manage their projects. I either had to intentionally work slow or spend an assload of time watching old kung fu movies on Netflix (on their dime).
 

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I'm much the same. In the few jobs I've had (I'm in my second year of college), I've just kinda kept to myself and focused on my work. I'd try to do a good job just for the sake of it, because that helps me focus, but I wasn't particularly engaged in trying to get myself into better positions or talk my way up. I have absolutely zero interest in that sort of thing. I'm working towards a degree in Mechanical Engineering, and my mom tells me I should get a business degree to become an engineering manager, which sounds unappealing to me because I'd rather just work on the nitty gritty engineering stuff. I'd rather do something interesting and enjoyable than make a lot of money or brown-nose my way to the top.

Right now, I'm in a bit of a different sort of job. For the rest of the summer, I'm helping a small medical group work on their online presence and website, which is more fun because I'm more of an adviser whose opinions are valued (for some reason) and considered, and I just have to come in with good ideas. The job I'm going to be working in the fall and likely through the rest of my college career is a sort of math tutoring job, which is also a lot of fun because I like learning myself and helping people learn something like mathematics is really interesting for me. In these types of jobs, having good ideas and being able to express them actually seems like it matters, which I really value.

I dislike the application process. An unqualified extrovert has a much better chance at getting my potential career because they're a better speaker than me. The fact that it's a formality to send a thank you note after an interview irks me. A world run by INTPs wouldn't give a shit about pointless things like that. It makes you no more qualified than you really are.

I applied to over 30 fucking minimum wage jobs before getting hired. Thanks baby boomers!

I've been at my first job for about a month now at Kohl's. I'm getting along well with my coworkers and managers and the job itself isn't all that bad.
Ugh, yeah, the only way I've been able to get any job ever is through connections. No exceptions. Every summer I would apply for a dozen places and get nothing. Knowing people is the only way in, which seems really strange.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm much the same. In the few jobs I've had (I'm in my second year of college), I've just kinda kept to myself and focused on my work. I'd try to do a good job just for the sake of it, because that helps me focus, but I wasn't particularly engaged in trying to get myself into better positions or talk my way up. I have absolutely zero interest in that sort of thing. I'm working towards a degree in Mechanical Engineering, and my mom tells me I should get a business degree to become an engineering manager, which sounds unappealing to me because I'd rather just work on the nitty gritty engineering stuff. I'd rather do something interesting and enjoyable than make a lot of money or brown-nose my way to the top.
I completely understand this! I've spent a lot of time just feeling really baffled about why no one seems to notice that the "normal" way to act is being total kiss-asses and trying to step all over everyone to get to the top. It looks so obvious to me...

the only way I've been able to get any job ever is through connections. No exceptions. Every summer I would apply for a dozen places and get nothing. Knowing people is the only way in, which seems really strange.
This happened to me a lot as well! I knew all along that I wasn't a bad worker, for some reason I just couldn't mentally/emotionally connect with the interviewer! I had a few better jobs through friends/family, but I still couldn't really understand why they did things the way they did them. I feel that learning an already-accepted system is so difficult for me because I see so many unnecessary aspects of it.

Are these elaborations accurate for any of you?
 

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黐線 ~Chiseen~
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You'd love a client I worked for at one point. They did a modified Scrum for project management. Every task/bug fix had a estimate in points, and they defined one point as one day of work. But tasks couldn't be assigned anything below 0.5 points. So a 15-minute bug fix had to be scheduled as a four hour (0.5 points) task. Each person was given 10 points of work for each two-week cycle, as that corresponded to 10 days of work, and tasks couldn't be added or assigned in the middle of a cycle.

There were times when I'd get a lot of those short bug fixes with inflated estimates, and I'd spend three days in a week with no tasks to work on. And they thought that was a perfectly normal way to manage their projects. I either had to intentionally work slow or spend an assload of time watching old kung fu movies on Netflix (on their dime).

My IT department works the same way. I was there for 2 years. They were about to fire me when the heads over at Customer Service decided to take me in. It's nice to establish great partnerships with people outside your departments. Not mean socially, but build an integrity repertoire.

That connection which your current boss doesn't have with other departments is one of your advantage for job security to remain within the company to grow in.

That perk for having to intentionally work slow or sometimes have a deadline fest, it may seem worthwhile, but in the end, you have to ask yourself... does that perk help you 'grow'? If not, just be sure to not get 'too comfortable' such that you'd abhor change when that perk gets cut. Happened to us on quite a number of occasions. Just that I adapted to the change quite more easily / easier than others.
 

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黐線 ~Chiseen~
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I hate that too. It's really discouraging that you have to know people on the inside to be accepted.

Not all places are like this. Although I was fortunate to be hired by knowing someone into my current company, what is truly baffling to me is the company will not promote from within for quite a many positions.

Being as I am from the Customer Service department, I worked here for around 7 years now. There are people I know in their same positions without change in those 7 years. Mind you quite a few of them are comfortable with where they are and what they do. However, quite a many of the workers submit resumes to different departments in the company, and less than 10% of them across the 7 years I've been here were successful in landing a spot within the same company.

Human Resources would hire someone who has no knowledge with a degree and give higher pay than promote someone who has intricate knowledge of the business, the lingo, the industry, worked in customer service, etc. to take over the new spot.

Again, in the book "One Minute Manager", there's a section that explains one possibility why. The worker in customer service is overworked and underpaid, but to keep that job, they need to remain good at what they do.

The rationale is, if the worker does the same amount of work as say... three people... the cost to replace the current worker if the department loses them would be hiring three newbies at base pay, say $10/hr * 3 people... where the current worker is paid $10/hr

A new person from the outside with no knowledge of the industry with a degree is hired to get paid $20/hr... that is still $10/hr less than hiring three new people to take over the current spot WHILE promoting the current worker to the new spot while giving them a raise.

In the end, there's a combination of networking, in-house politics, and a numbers game... One can never know which method is at play when applying and waiting for the selection process.

But those are the scenarios that I have first handedly experienced. Perhaps this offers new insight to you.
 

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What are your thoughts on your personal experience between you, an INTP, and the job (meaning your colleagues, bosses, rules, etc. front where you are from?

I find myself to be relatively easy to get along with at work, but I'm very distracted a lot of the time. I learn fast, meet expectations, and never cause trouble. I often put myself on the dl and don't try to get noticed because I don't want to conform and then I miss out on rewards for doing well. I tend to conspire about the big cheeses of the institution because I feel as if giving me a reward for good behaviour is like throwing a dog a bone for rolling over on command.

Do other INTPs have trouble doing exceptionally at work because of this reason?
I'm thinking that if others do experience these thoughts, it is connected to our tendency to feel like those in executive positions are always trying to bring us down so they can keep controlling us....
What are your enlightening thoughts, INTPs (and others who know INTPs)?
Interesting. I have noticed the INTP's I've known don't seem to have gone as far as I would expect them to. They have been really good to get help and advice from and in turn helpful advancing my own career. And also reminders for impulse control when I've been about to say something I shouldn't. They have everything they need to go further. It's there for the taking. The boss is the boss. Issues with rewards... I get it, but I don't think it's worth pushing against on principle. You're only handicapping/hurting yourself.
 

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Not all places are like this. Although I was fortunate to be hired by knowing someone into my current company, what is truly baffling to me is the company will not promote from within for quite a many positions.

Being as I am from the Customer Service department, I worked here for around 7 years now. There are people I know in their same positions without change in those 7 years. Mind you quite a few of them are comfortable with where they are and what they do. However, quite a many of the workers submit resumes to different departments in the company, and less than 10% of them across the 7 years I've been here were successful in landing a spot within the same company.

Human Resources would hire someone who has no knowledge with a degree and give higher pay than promote someone who has intricate knowledge of the business, the lingo, the industry, worked in customer service, etc. to take over the new spot.

Again, in the book "One Minute Manager", there's a section that explains one possibility why. The worker in customer service is overworked and underpaid, but to keep that job, they need to remain good at what they do.

The rationale is, if the worker does the same amount of work as say... three people... the cost to replace the current worker if the department loses them would be hiring three newbies at base pay, say $10/hr * 3 people... where the current worker is paid $10/hr

A new person from the outside with no knowledge of the industry with a degree is hired to get paid $20/hr... that is still $10/hr less than hiring three new people to take over the current spot WHILE promoting the current worker to the new spot while giving them a raise.

In the end, there's a combination of networking, in-house politics, and a numbers game... One can never know which method is at play when applying and waiting for the selection process.

But those are the scenarios that I have first handedly experienced. Perhaps this offers new insight to you.
7 Years? How do you wait that long in one job? I wish I had that kind of patience. The current $10/hr doing enough work for 3 people doesn't have to put up with this crap. $10/hr isn't worth holing up for. There are lots of jobs that pay like that.
 

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I'm much the same. In the few jobs I've had (I'm in my second year of college), I've just kinda kept to myself and focused on my work. I'd try to do a good job just for the sake of it, because that helps me focus, but I wasn't particularly engaged in trying to get myself into better positions or talk my way up. I have absolutely zero interest in that sort of thing. I'm working towards a degree in Mechanical Engineering, and my mom tells me I should get a business degree to become an engineering manager, which sounds unappealing to me because I'd rather just work on the nitty gritty engineering stuff. I'd rather do something interesting and enjoyable than make a lot of money or brown-nose my way to the top.
You don't have to brown nose your way up. Get to know people. Be social. Make sure your work is well done.

This is the attitude that started rumours that I was sleeping with my bosses. If I'm competent at my job and enjoy people, what's wrong with that? I moved into working with corporate clients. I enjoyed my job (I quit to stay at home with my kids). I was smart enough for uni, I got in, did a year and dropped out from sheer torturous boredom. Learning aeronautics on the job was so much more interesting! Hardly any theory. One of the acft engineers could take me out to an Embraer and show me what they were talking about. Now that's interesting! None of this abstract theory crap.

Why assume the worst of people when they do well? Everyone else in the department had the same degrees, the same backgrounds and had all managed to alienate/lose clients. I was promoted into the department to interact with clients (did the same kind of job in other positions). I organized the mess that was their paperwork while I was there and took on other interactions the department was struggling with with other departments. Their applications were moving slowly because they'd pissed off too many people. I got them new chairs, computers, coffeemaker, fridge etc... It's not brown nosing. It's called being friendly. I liked the department, they were just a little rough around the edges and not everyone's skin is thick enough to take it.
 

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You don't have to brown nose your way up. Get to know people. Be social. Make sure your work is well done.

This is the attitude that started rumours that I was sleeping with my bosses. If I'm competent at my job and enjoy people, what's wrong with that? I moved into working with corporate clients. I enjoyed my job (I quit to stay at home with my kids). I was smart enough for uni, I got in, did a year and dropped out from sheer torturous boredom. Learning aeronautics on the job was so much more interesting! Hardly any theory. One of the acft engineers could take me out to an Embraer and show me what they were talking about. Now that's interesting! None of this abstract theory crap.

Why assume the worst of people when they do well? Everyone else in the department had the same degrees, the same backgrounds and had all managed to alienate/lose clients. I was promoted into the department to interact with clients (did the same kind of job in other positions). I organized the mess that was their paperwork while I was there and took on other interactions the department was struggling with with other departments. Their applications were moving slowly because they'd pissed off too many people. I got them new chairs, computers, coffeemaker, fridge etc... It's not brown nosing. It's called being friendly. I liked the department, they were just a little rough around the edges and not everyone's skin is thick enough to take it.
I didn't make any assumptions like that. I didn't say that to be successful, you have to kiss ass, nor did I say that all people who do well are there because they did so. I just notice some people seem to be largely in it for the promotion rather than for the work itself, and I hope to never find myself in that position.

Neither does this necessarily have anything to do with being social or not. I do talk to my coworkers, I'm friendly with people, and I've gotten along with my superiors just fine. All I'm saying is I don't really have the ambition that it seems a lot of others do to climb up the ladder, regardless of how they do it. What I understand even less, then, is the idea of being nice just to gain favor and move up.

What you're saying is perfectly valid, but it's only tangentially related to what I've said.
 

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What are your thoughts on your personal experience between you, an INTP, and the job (meaning your colleagues, bosses, rules, etc. front where you are from?

I find myself to be relatively easy to get along with at work, but I'm very distracted a lot of the time. I learn fast, meet expectations, and never cause trouble. I often put myself on the dl and don't try to get noticed because I don't want to conform and then I miss out on rewards for doing well. I tend to conspire about the big cheeses of the institution because I feel as if giving me a reward for good behaviour is like throwing a dog a bone for rolling over on command.

Do other INTPs have trouble doing exceptionally at work because of this reason?
I'm thinking that if others do experience these thoughts, it is connected to our tendency to feel like those in executive positions are always trying to bring us down so they can keep controlling us....
What are your enlightening thoughts, INTPs (and others who know INTPs)?
No problem whatsoever in a working environment, whether in a customer-facing role, routine work, or in my career.
But then I always thought I was a weird INTP, for not being weird enough.

I find being polite and efficient works to keep 90% of people on-side. It certainly isn't a reason someone can use for disliking you.
My workplace seems to have the unwritten "No Assholes" rule in full effect.
 
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