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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
INTPs: Well Placed to Get Over Screw-Ups?

While it has often been said that INTPs are too hard on themselves, it seems to me that INTPs are well placed to get over screw ups through future focus, problem solving and extraverted feeling. Some may need a little help with planning and execution of the plan, though all the raw ingredients appear to be there, particularly if they've mastered a knowledge area.

What do you think? How do you handle your screw ups, and do you think you can improve?

Screwing Up Could Be..

"Aristotle wrote the original book on persuasion: "Rhetoric." All persuasion books that have been written in the 2,600 years since descend from Aristotle's ideas. He offers two important tools that apply to recovering from screwups.

First, Aristotle said that the most important tool of persuasion--even more important than logic--is "ethos," which has to do with getting an audience to like and trust you. The ideal ethos, or projected image of yourself:

  • Displays craft (authority with the subject at hand, and an ability to apply that knowledge to specific situations);
  • Caring (whether you're interested only in your audience's benefit), and
  • Cause (whether you stand for something larger than yourself).
In a screwup, you need to present a workable plan to show your craft.

  • Emphasize that you're putting all hands on deck, doing whatever it takes, staying up all night to fix the problem. That's the caring part. As for cause?
  • Point out that you have high standards and that you plan to live up to them.
Second tool: tense. Aristotle said that there are three types of persuasion, each having to do with a different tense.

  1. The past is about crime and punishment, about screwups that happened--where else?--in the past.
  2. The present has to do with values, with right and wrong, who's good and who's bad.
  3. Then there's the future, where you talk about the expected outcomes of decisions and choices. Want to get someone to make a decision? Focus on the future.
Jay got all that from Aristotle--who, by the way, tutored a young lad named Alexander. Little Alexander took these same tools of persuasion, created a volunteer army, and conquered the known world. He earned himself the title Alexander the Great. If it worked for him, and it's likely that it'll work for your screwups."
 

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"Compensate like hell" as if the screw-up were clearly "the wrong path out of two"

Since multiple fate-pathways arguably can't exist in linear time (or can they), and since even if it were possible, it'd be much more complex than "the wrong path out of two"

...you'll have "compensated" more than necessary.
 

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Sorry for bursting in on the wrong sub forum, but here goes:
I agree with the OP about the methods involved, but I'm sorry to say you as INTPs aren't better suited to handle and get over screw-ups than other groups are. It has to do with an individual's attitude, not the functions they prefer. If you think about it, I could claim a similar position for ISTPs, based on our supposed groundedness (thanks to Se's interaction with Ti), or for any other personality type based on their "features".
In short, INTPs do have the tools to get over their screw-ups - as does every other type - but it's really up to the individual if they have the necessary guts and drive to do it when push comes to shove.
 

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4. Don't apologize.
This is the most controversial advice I give. Apologies come with several problems. First, they focus on the past, on the screwup, reminding people of what you did. Second, apologies rarely satisfy people. They almost always seem inadequate. That's because apologies are "self-belittling"--they shrink you down to the size of the victim or smaller. People often demand an apology more as vengeance than as any way to improve matters. Instead, you need to be in a position of strength so that you can solve the problem and get past the screwup.
I see what he's saying, but I don't necessarily agree with this one right here. Sometimes, depending on the nature of the screwup, an apology is warranted. In the example he gives about Apple and their maps app, sure, don't apologize... it's not like the failings of a free app will have ruined someone's life (except maybe the guy who got fired over it). But at the same time, if some failing on your part has injured someone-- be it physically, emotionally, financially, or what have you-- it is amazing what acknowledging your mistake and apologizing can do to clear the air. That being said, an apology alone is rarely enough. As the saying goes, "Talk is cheap." You need apology plus action... and that action can either be learning from the mistake and doing your best to never repeat it, or doing what is within your power to either undo the damage or at least mitigate consequences of your failings.

When I was taking an alternative dispute resolution class in law school, one of the interesting things the professor said is that a lot of times when people are ready to file lawsuits, what they really want is a forum where they can tell their story and to get an apology.
 
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While it has often been said that INTPs are too hard on themselves, it seems to me that INTPs are well placed to get over screw ups through future focus, problem solving and extraverted feeling. Some may need a little help with planning and execution of the plan, though all the raw ingredients appear to be there, particularly if they've mastered a knowledge area.

What do you think? How do you handle your screw ups, and do you think you can improve?

Screwing Up Could Be..

"Aristotle wrote the original book on persuasion: "Rhetoric." All persuasion books that have been written in the 2,600 years since descend from Aristotle's ideas. He offers two important tools that apply to recovering from screwups.

First, Aristotle said that the most important tool of persuasion--even more important than logic--is "ethos," which has to do with getting an audience to like and trust you. The ideal ethos, or projected image of yourself:

  • Displays craft (authority with the subject at hand, and an ability to apply that knowledge to specific situations);
  • Caring (whether you're interested only in your audience's benefit), and
  • Cause (whether you stand for something larger than yourself).
In a screwup, you need to present a workable plan to show your craft.

  • Emphasize that you're putting all hands on deck, doing whatever it takes, staying up all night to fix the problem. That's the caring part. As for cause?
  • Point out that you have high standards and that you plan to live up to them.
Second tool: tense. Aristotle said that there are three types of persuasion, each having to do with a different tense.

  1. The past is about crime and punishment, about screwups that happened--where else?--in the past.
  2. The present has to do with values, with right and wrong, who's good and who's bad.
  3. Then there's the future, where you talk about the expected outcomes of decisions and choices. Want to get someone to make a decision? Focus on the future.
Jay got all that from Aristotle--who, by the way, tutored a young lad named Alexander. Little Alexander took these same tools of persuasion, created a volunteer army, and conquered the known world. He earned himself the title Alexander the Great. If it worked for him, and it's likely that it'll work for your screwups."
I wouldn't say we're particularly good at getting over screw ups.
I am going to speak in generalities:
INTPs are focused on finding the best method to tackle issues Ti, based on their collection of data Ne.
Being Ti based we're more likely to be leery of screwing up and taking our time to make a decision/take action.

I'd say an Se user is a lot better at coping with screw ups because they are more likely to take the chance and screw up, they learn via experience be it good or bad.
They'd be more likely to have learned to deal with fuck ups, via experience.

INTPs would be more likely to be terrified of making a mistake and "being hard on themselves"
Using Si to replay what happened repeatedly so that they ensure they never make the mistake again. Potentially badgering their Ne for not seeing it as a possible terrible outcome. Badgering Ti because perhaps they knew a bad outcome was possible and they went for it anyway.

I personally hate screwing up, I've learned to cope with it a bit better now but I am more prone to analysis and inaction then I am fucking up and coping with a bad decision. I have more pride in my ability to make informed decisions and not having to deal with bad decisions then i do my ability to get over the bad decisions.
 
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