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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi
Today I wanted to talk about a topic about the introvert intuitive intelligence. At the difference of extrovert intuition intelligence, introvert intelligence is more about defining the nature of the world (After Susan Cain claims at Ted talks.)

What makes intuitive introvert intelligence so effective? The deformation of the world is so specific !

What fascinates me is that all four INxxs types have a deformation of the world so specific according to the nature of their primary and secondary functions.
Fi Ne
Ti Ne
Ni Te
Ni Fe
Which makes me think their primary and secondary functions act like a reverberation or something like that.


We saw this specificity of introvert intuitive with the character of the Oracle (INFJ) and the Architect (INTJ) in the Matrix trilogy?
They have a place of exception in the Matrix by the role they are playing, being noticeably compiler of the Matrix. The Oracle and the Architect being one of the astonishing exemple of the role of INFx versus INTx in the community. INFx people brings emotion of people, INTx brings material advancement.
 

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I find introverted intuitives are likely the types to be the most out of touch with reality while lacking awareness as to how out of touch they really are. If an introverted intuitive doesn't learn to perceive external realities as they are without constantly having to project the seeking of something deeper, an Ni dom can truly go mad with paranoia, conspiracy theories or similar ideas that can't be easily dismissed or disproved.
There is a thing I call the "intuition rabbit hole" that I think introverted intuitives are especially prone to where one can mentally follow an abstract tangent and follow it to another tangent and another, until your ideas are something unrecognizable from the external or tangible world. I've done this a few times, mentally, myself. I find, currently, I tend to focus my deeper intuitive thoughts onto creating game concepts or writing fiction, and thus I can generate a simulation of reality based on my deeper intuitive musings without having to apply them to actual reality, if I'm unsure as to how compatible they are regarding present realities. I have written things that have turned out to have parellels in reality, however.
I think the most intelligent introverted intuitives are the ones who know how to practice mindfulness once in a while, the ones who have the discernment to know when to look at the environment and realize that what is there is what you can observe with the senses, and that there isn't always something deeper going on. Sometimes, nothing is going on between the lines, and sometimes you have to simply see how a situation plays out so that you can expand your frame of reference when speculating how events might play out. Experience serves to strengthen intuition.
 

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I find introverted intuitives are likely the types to be the most out of touch with reality while lacking awareness as to how out of touch they really are. If an introverted intuitive doesn't learn to perceive external realities as they are without constantly having to project the seeking of something deeper, an Ni dom can truly go mad with paranoia, conspiracy theories or similar ideas that can't be easily dismissed or disproved.
There is a thing I call the "intuition rabbit hole" that I think introverted intuitives are especially prone to where one can mentally follow an abstract tangent and follow it to another tangent and another, until your ideas are something unrecognizable from the external or tangible world. I've done this a few times, mentally, myself. I find, currently, I tend to focus my deeper intuitive thoughts onto creating game concepts or writing fiction, and thus I can generate a simulation of reality based on my deeper intuitive musings without having to apply them to actual reality, if I'm unsure as to how compatible they are regarding present realities. I have written things that have turned out to have parellels in reality, however.
I think the most intelligent introverted intuitives are the ones who know how to practice mindfulness once in a while, the ones who have the discernment to know when to look at the environment and realize that what is there is what you can observe with the senses, and that there isn't always something deeper going on. Sometimes, nothing is going on between the lines, and sometimes you have to simply see how a situation plays out so that you can expand your frame of reference when speculating how events might play out. Experience serves to strengthen intuition.
Agree and relate with this. The "downside" of Ni is being completely out of touch with reality, sometimes, or have such a strong connection with an internal perceptive framework that the unconscious, external origins of those perceptions lose relevance. The introverted intuitive can be taken by surprise when parallels arise... being so ignorant of its own process.

To give some form of concrete example to illustrate... I was sitting near a window, thinking about nothing in particular, when suddenly I had the thought, "it's going to snow today." I then dismissed it because it was nearly April. Ten minutes later, it was snowing. I don't believe I'm somehow prophetic about the weather. I believe during my mind-wandering I was somehow picking up on cues that led to the conclusion it was about to snow; a sudden drop in barometric pressure, or maybe a few flakes had already fallen and I just didn't consciously notice. Yet, for some reason my awareness prioritizes that "sudden insight" through subtle background processing over engaging in a conscious observation.

It's either highly intelligent or incredibly stupid, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I really was hesitant to post because I really couldnt see how it would go.

I totally agree with what you are saying. Sensory data is super important. And I could not deny since I strugle with paranoïa and bipolar disease when I am not on medication. Mindfulness is the basis of my resilience.

But my question was much: how INxxs people manage to become intelligent and resourceful?
Have we like really bad thinking in one or multiple domains and we are not aware of it, and specialize? Is our force is to speculate and being wrong most of the time while being able to do not see it?

I really dont understand our intelligence!
Not like IQ even if I think there is a correlation. But like comprehension.

I dont really understand how I finish being right. As Squirt I encounter a situation where I was right but dont know how. It was the banker of my mom that was a bad man. I see it from his face and voice lol
 

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@lecomte IN's resourcefulness comes from within. The most important part in an introvert's life is their internal process.

I'm sure you've had the cahnce to read Jung's description of the introverted irrational and rational types - the main conclusion I got from it was that introverts who try to assimilate and change themselves to the external, very fast become the worst versions of themseves. Whether it's trying to abide by social standards, trying to be better-than, abiding only to externally forced rules or living their lives as dictated to them by parents and society - none of these things will make an introvert reach a higher level of individuation, intelligence or comprehension.

The key to the success of the Introverted Intuitive is to assimilate the way they engage with the external to the way their internal process is best suited to work. That way, insights from the extraverted functions would be incorporated into the main function and attitude instead of being fought with or dismissed, and the psyche would become more balanced, as counterintuitive as it sounds.
 

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But my question was much: how INxxs people manage to become intelligent and resourceful?
Have we like really bad thinking in one or multiple domains and we are not aware of it, and specialize? Is our force is to speculate and being wrong most of the time while being able to do not see it?

I really dont understand our intelligence!
Not like IQ even if I think there is a correlation. But like comprehension.

I dont really understand how I finish being right. As Squirt I encounter a situation where I was right but dont know how. It was the banker of my mom that was a bad man. I see it from his face and voice lol
I believe INXX's become intelligent and resourceful by taking our speculations, and deeper insights and, at least occasionally trying to verify them with real instances. I am known to have rather strange google searches, and struggle to find the results I'm seeking, because on any given subject, I'll work out in my mind the beginning to the end, but then I'll want to verify at some point, "has something like the thing I've imagined actually happened in real life?"
I believe humility is an invaluable quality in introverts in general, particularly introverts who are intuitive, because INxx's can easily feel like we have all the answers simply because things work out in our imaginations and make sense in our heads. I believe have better intuitions and insights starts with realizing that you have blind spots and learning how to minmize them.

I'd believe that an intelligent introverted intuitive would specialize especially in making accurate predictions regarding any number of societal trends. I think an Ni-dom would be an invaluable asset to marketing, risk assessment or any field where it's necessary to have a grasp on things will likely pan out in the future, and possible end results to the progression of current events.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I wanted to point out the specificity of this conversation since introverts intuitive in the MBTI deals with Ni Te, Ni Fe, Fi Ne, Ti Ne; what makes in these specifics arrangement of cognitive function a --conceptual inclined personality, yet a very intelligent and often out of touch people. Because for me it's not Ni per se but Ni-Te and Ni-Fe that creates the weird reverberation. To me Ni is associate to emotional need (Fe) or organization (Te) which makes it so intense. As for Fi Ne and Ti Ne, I think we just see people or things as test subjects lol, our imagination creates possibility in our heads and we compare it to reality I think. Maybe Jung could be useful here.

As an INFP when I understand something I try to imagine a counter argument "in a possible world yes it could be.... but why this, this and this exist then" that's why I think we are driven to fiction but Ti and Fi makes it so intense, even nearly unlivable sometimes!

I also suspect INFJ to be driven by the musicality of a situation noticeably linked to empathy (the ability to recognize a pattern of voices), whereas INFPs would be driven by the visual aesthetics, INTPs driven by the concept behind the words, and INTJ by the physicality of things. But unlike other types, they would be displease by other types preference but in a sensibility so increased it hurts and it's repetitive in our head. For example the only way to calm me, it's with a good movie or a beautiful image.

And I know totally where I am good at! But it's not surprising as an INFP. I am very good at deducing philosophical implication of fictional world and people aha
 

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I really dont understand our intelligence!
The way Ni exhibits intelligence is astonishing to me
I'm not a Ni-dom so I don't really grasp it's powers or how it affects my mind
But watching others who live and breathe Ni
They can seemingly connect stuff effortlessly and draw connections and relevance which I would never be aware of (maybe only after some experience and dedication)
It's almost like a different mode of sensory input and manipulation
They seem to be able to visualise the shapes and forms of concepts and how they intersesct with others and more importantly where it intersects
 

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WTF are you even saying
introvert intelligence is more about defining the nature of the world
What does that even mean

What makes intuitive introvert intelligence so effective? The deformation of the world is so specific !
The "deformation" of the world? Which definition of "deform" and/or are you sure that's the right word?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
WTF are you even saying

What does that even mean
Hi! Dulcinea said it in another way but being intuitive introvert means you are able to distord reality a lot. I think we see it in intuitive introvert philosophy. Introverts intuition philosophy isn't simply a question of physics (the properties of object) but it is more about redefining core concept such as "Reason", "Determinism", "Objectivism" or even "existence" and metaphysics are so distorted from reality it's unrecognizable. Whereas extrovert intuition deal with the properties of the way of people form knowledge (empirism ENTP, finalism (entj), wokism (enfj), postmodernism (enfp), introverts people tend to define the domain of knowledge (the way our ideas are associated) as the reality itself!
For other types, the form of their philosophy is more down-to-earth and tend to immediate and perceived sensation
For example an INTP would tend to think "Reason" exist but it is actually an abstraction from differents methods of gathering information (for example in biology it would differs from sociology or psychology).

But since introverts intuitive are already in these high abstract properties we have indeed a lot of difficulty being in the present moment

The "deformation" of the world? Which definition of "deform" and/or are you sure that's the right word?
By deformation I would mean distortion
 

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@lecomte ENTJs have introverted intuition. It's just that it's used as a vehicle for the motivation of the main function. I my case I strive to achieve a higher complexity and broader and more defined perspective on solutions and life formulas. This sounds more literal than it actually is as I wasn't aware that others aren't using Te in such a consistency before learning about the theory.
 

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Hmmm... This might sound counterintuitive, but I actually think the extent to which Ni-Doms are either in touch or out of touch with reality, depends more so on developing their auxiliary judging function, than it does on developing their Se.

My INTP friend is the most hardcore conspiracy theorist I know. When we met, 5 or so years ago, I was actually interested and open to a lot of his interests and the things he told me about. However, the more I have developed Fe, the more in touch I am with those around me on an emotional level, and the more I am able to make the distinction between something that sounds (or is) logically coherent in theory, but highly unlikely in the real world; and something logically coherent that has a higher degree of likelihood.

There is a level of distrust in the world around them, other people and “the system” as a whole, in the heart of the conspiracy theorist. I feel like I had this kind of distrust and skepticism going on in my 20s (Ni/Ti loop), but developing Fe has really helped me navigate people and gain confidence in my ability to tell what/who is or is not worthy of trust.

I think INTJs would be doing something similar using Te, but for them trust/distrust would be based on objective data and objective criteria, as opposed to emotional awareness/knowledge and data (EQ).
 

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The way Ni exhibits intelligence is astonishing to me
I'm not a Ni-dom so I don't really grasp it's powers or how it affects my mind
But watching others who live and breathe Ni
They can seemingly connect stuff effortlessly and draw connections and relevance which I would never be aware of (maybe only after some experience and dedication)
It's almost like a different mode of sensory input and manipulation
They seem to be able to visualise the shapes and forms of concepts and how they intersesct with others and more importantly where it intersects
I actually really notice both ISFP and ISTP using their Ni, and there is something about this that I really love. There is something very pure and genuine about it.

What seems to happen with Ni though, for whatever reason, is that those who either have it as a tertiary or inferior function, or sometimes those who have it as one of the shadow functions, associate it with religion and spiritual beliefs.

There is a side to Ni that is related to spirituality, but this isn’t the whole story. For example ESTPs, despite the adventurer reputation, can be quite strictly adherent to a particular religion (Ni inferior), almost as though they believe that a religious text will tell them all that they need to know. If it is not mainstream religion, then it might be something else like a philosophical theory or line of thought.

The problem is that this is not a judging function. It is a perceiving function, so it works through perception. You need to use it in order to practice it, rather than simply read about it.

Reading about it is still interesting and important. Don’t get me wrong.

But imagine, for instance, a person low on Sensing who reads 10 books about swimming and convinces themselves that they now know all there is to know about swimming. Except they’ve never actually swum...

:edit: Actually it is not the best analogy, because the tertiary and inferior functions are still used, but the person is not as conscious of this. So this would be like the individual learning about swimming has actually gone swimming in a sort of subconscious “sleepwalking” state.. but they don’t actually realise that they have done this... so they are only aware of what they have read about it..
Gosh it’s even hard to give a proper analogy! Lol

I tried... 😊
 

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Hmmm... This might sound counterintuitive, but I actually think the extent to which Ni-Doms are either in touch or out of touch with reality, depends more so on developing their auxiliary judging function, than it does on developing their Se.

My INTP friend is the most hardcore conspiracy theorist I know. When we met, 5 or so years ago, I was actually interested and open to a lot of his interests and the things he told me about. However, the more I have developed Fe, the more in touch I am with those around me on an emotional level, and the more I am able to make the distinction between something that sounds (or is) logically coherent in theory, but highly unlikely in the real world; and something logically coherent that has a higher degree of likelihood.

There is a level of distrust in the world around them, other people and “the system” as a whole, in the heart of the conspiracy theorist. I feel like I had this kind of distrust and skepticism going on in my 20s (Ni/Ti loop), but developing Fe has really helped me navigate people and gain confidence in my ability to tell what/who is or is not worthy of trust.

I think INTJs would be doing something similar using Te, but for them trust/distrust would be based on objective data and objective criteria, as opposed to emotional awareness/knowledge and data (EQ).
The first aspect develops pretty quickly though. Ive met them at ages 16-18-20 having perfectly functioning Se connectivity. But yeah, it fine tunes itself upwards towards say 25, even 30. At that point it starts to become high functioning already, if you know what I mean.

Thats the possibility (Ne) vs probability (Ni).

This "developing Fe" -thing is why Im writing to respond here. How do you use this, to navigate? I do get the how that is handing you over confidence, but how to use Fe to tell about a persons trustworthiness?

Yeah, that last one is spot on. They can also develop to the nuances of EQ side of things after having basic know how of SQ part, but that is usually beyond 30s even 40s.
 

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I actually really notice both ISFP and ISTP using their Ni, and there is something about this that I really love. There is something very pure and genuine about it.

What seems to happen with Ni though, for whatever reason, is that those who either have it as a tertiary or inferior function, or sometimes those who have it as one of the shadow functions, associate it with religion and spiritual beliefs.

There is a side to Ni that is related to spirituality, but this isn’t the whole story. For example ESTPs, despite the adventurer reputation, can be quite strictly adherent to a particular religion (Ni inferior), almost as though they believe that a religious text will tell them all that they need to know. If it is not mainstream religion, then it might be something else like a philosophical theory or line of thought.

The problem is that this is not a judging function. It is a perceiving function, so it works through perception. You need to use it in order to practice it, rather than simply read about it.

Reading about it is still interesting and important. Don’t get me wrong.

But imagine, for instance, a person low on Sensing who reads 10 books about swimming and convinces themselves that they now know all there is to know about swimming. Except they’ve never actually swum...

:edit: Actually it is not the best analogy, because the tertiary and inferior functions are still used, but the person is not as conscious of this. So this would be like the individual learning about swimming has actually gone swimming in a sort of subconscious “sleepwalking” state.. but they don’t actually realise that they have done this... so they are only aware of what they have read about it..
Gosh it’s even hard to give a proper analogy! Lol

I tried... 😊
There is a lot for all of us to learn. Some stuff is nice, most of it, not that nice.
 

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The first aspect develops pretty quickly though. Ive met them at ages 16-18-20 having perfectly functioning Se connectivity. But yeah, it fine tunes itself upwards towards say 25, even 30. At that point it starts to become high functioning already, if you know what I mean.

Thats the possibility (Ne) vs probability (Ni).

This "developing Fe" -thing is why Im writing to respond here. How do you use this, to navigate? I do get the how that is handing you over confidence, but how to use Fe to tell about a persons trustworthiness?

Yeah, that last one is spot on. They can also develop to the nuances of EQ side of things after having basic know how of SQ part, but that is usually beyond 30s even 40s.
Hi Jerica! That’s a good question... I would say: A lot of practice in social settings and a lot of interaction with people, because Fe is an Extroverted function. In my opinion, you can only learn how to use it by gaining experiences with different people, with different personality types. However if you are an introvert, this will initially feel outside your comfort zone. Do you think you’re INFJ?

The way I use Fe to navigate is based on the amount of people I have known, interacted with and gotten close to. Fe at its best helps you understand human nature in general. This makes it a lot easier to shift-perspective (“walk a mile in their shoes”) and also predict behaviour, which INFJs love to do.

People who know me well, like family and close friends, would have seen the Fe side to me even at 10 years of age. But in a more public setting I was a lot more in tune with my introverted functions: Ni/Ti until probably around the age of 28/29.

For instance I was always anxious about public speaking, in typical Introvert fashion. Now I’m very confident. I can speak to a whole lecture theatre and enjoy it. I think it’s because I see people as people, and I’m more focused on their enjoyment and making the presentation entertaining for them (Fe) than I am on whether or not they are judging me, and what they may or may not be thinking (Ni/Ti).
 

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Hi Jerica!
Hey there,

That’s a good question... I would say: A lot of practice in social settings and a lot of interaction with people, because Fe is an Extroverted function.
-Of course, but as we are not talking about a Se manner, so then, how?

-Id be the other Ni.

The way I use Fe to navigate is based on the amount of people I have known, interacted with and gotten close to. Fe at its best helps you understand human nature in general. This makes it a lot easier to shift-perspective (“walk a mile in their shoes”) and also predict behaviour, which INFJs love to do.

-Got it better now. Is it that you empathize to analyze vibe and then predict based on feels? But how are you separating you from them? How can you know whats of them and whats not of yours. In the sense of excluding natural merge you clearly have an inclination to, and which is actually kinda beautiful too, to possess as a human quality.

People who know me well, like family and close friends, would have seen the Fe side to me even at 10 years of age. But in a more public setting I was a lot more in tune with my introverted functions: Ni/Ti until probably around the age of 28/29.

-Fascinating. Did something trigger you at that specific age towards the more well rounded version of yourself? NiTi, thatd be a some sort of loop then right? How about adding the Se to the equation =)

For instance I was always anxious about public speaking, in typical Introvert fashion. Now I’m very confident.
-how great wines can become better with time.. hugs

I can speak to a whole lecture theatre and enjoy it.
-lovely, truly lovely =)

I think it’s because I see people as people, and I’m more focused on their enjoyment and making the presentation entertaining for them (Fe) than I am on whether or not they are judging me, and what they may or may not be thinking (Ni/Ti).
-I have seen this on your kind, how you develop towards highest possible natural leadership quality. Its one of the very, very rare things that mesmerize me in the most calm and peaceful way. It warms me through outly just thinking about how your altruistic side overshadows your fear for being judged or what ever else negative. Beautiful.

Its just taking a really long time for infjs to become who they really are. Because the environment favors their opposite.
 

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IQ, EQ, SQ, SpirQ, KineticQ and so, so many other forms of intelligence existing on this so called planet. Each compatible with its own situations and timings. What I enjoy and even extract some pleasure from is how its all in this perfect sync if not even harmony that is connecting everything into this extremely valuable learning and committing trend where we either raise or fall. As if, it be a design for us to have all possible choices at hand, so that our freedom of will but more so will power to endure and demonstrate stamina in our trend would be handed out to us in a way that suits us perfectly in all and every single moment.

So, to me, this creation is beyond marvelous. But then again, a child will often remind us about his parents.

Im in love with how all is included in life, in a way that allows all choices, with a warm understanding, and judgement free.

And then we fall, occasionally, ideally just to raise later.

Raise higher, falling lower. Every single time. =)
 
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