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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Something I have been thinking about doing for a while. A defining of ISFJ by breaking down our functions.

Si: We understand the form and function of things. We understand how objects relate to each other and how multiple objects relate to a whole. We see systems and repetitions. We remember key distinctions as well as close similarities. We draw on experience, the more we have, the quicker we can react. We innately know percentages and probabilities of occurrences. We see the basic principles behind things. We have the ability to do repetitive work consistently.

Drawbacks- In new situations, we have trouble executing necessary functions due to a lack of experience. If we are away from something for a while, we get rusty quickly, and we take time to get back up to par. Others, who do not see the relations of objects and their form and function, find our views and/or advice irrational, especially when we are unable to articulate how we know this. With continual negative stimulus, we can become fatalistic as we see the possibilities of negative stimulus inevitable.

Fe: We seek to connect with others. We have a desire to protect. We believe in politeness and treating others right. We put others before ourselves, even to our own detriment. We listen when others need someone to confided in. We are content when others need to vent on us. We see the good in others and the limitless possibilities we have with friends and family. We seek to grow in relationships and to really get to know people. We can be strong for others, smiling when we do not want to, just to cheer someone else up.

Drawbacks- We can come off as forward or intense to others. We will pick up habits of others(whether good or bad). We can put others a head so much that we forget to take care of ourselves. When in a dark place, we can manipulate others, especially their emotions. We can be quite convincing which can get us into trouble. We can reflect what others do to us, and sometimes not even to the same person. In combination with Si, we can tear others apart, hitting everything that will deeply wound that individual and things they did not know we knew. We bottle things up in order not to hurt others, but if we do not have a way to release pressure, we can explode at inappropriate times.

Ti: We seek clarity. When we get into something, we delve deep into it, gaining a rich understanding of it. We seek to define, and find new ideas. We strive to comprehend anything that comes our way. We think things through, and come to comprehend things better. We make connections and problem solve. We logically sort things out. We want to better communicate, seeking just the right word to say. We do not necessarily believe a general consensus, and will strive to understand for ourselves. We can figure out how to be most efficient in almost anything.

Drawbacks- We can stay up at night, defining our day and worrying. We can over think things, and not act when we need to. We can stay in our minds too much, not interacting with those around us. We can self criticize too much, bring ourselves down, instead of kicking ourselves into action. We can rationalize inappropriate behavior by redefining it. We can go against the grain.

Ne: We naturally want to explore. We see many possible out comes, and hope for the best. We put things in context, and understand patterns, working toward how it all fits in. We can get the "feel" of a room, and understand how to make people laugh. We can see things from different points of view, and look at things from many different perspectives. We get impressions from sources and can fill in blanks where need be. We can have a love for what is weird or unappreciated. We value new opportunities.

Drawbacks- We can spend too much time brainstorming, and not enough time working. We can become slightly crass, throwing away our sensibilities. We can be overcome with possibilities and have difficulty deciding. We may share thoughts that should have been kept to ourselves. We can become overly jovial, to the point of cruelty. We may jump to conclusions if we do not take the time to observe and think.
 

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On the drawbacks of Si I find making never ending essays a problem - I feel the need to include every detail and find it difficult to select the relevant ones, maybe just me, what's the consensus?
 

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On the drawbacks of Si I find making never ending essays a problem - I feel the need to include every detail and find it difficult to select the relevant ones, maybe just me, what's the consensus?
I've heard that type 6's have a tendency to make long posts. I don't know the reasoning why, but I've heard it, and it definitely fits for me. :happy:
 

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Being sure the other person doesn't misinterpret so I've heard in the enneagram section.

I also relate to needing to process, - like has been mentioned in another thread.
 

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I found this all very fascinating and clearly expressed. This part in particular stood out to me:

Fe:
Drawbacks- In combination with Si, we can tear others apart, hitting everything that will deeply wound that individual and things they did not know we knew. We bottle things up in order not to hurt others, but if we do not have a way to release pressure, we can explode at inappropriate times.
I find this is the thing that I do that upsets me the most when I look back on it. I hate hurting other people and yet there have been times when I have been so far into rage that I have done this and I know I have the ability to really hurt someone with my words because of what I know/remember about people. I try to be really careful about what I say but sometimes I don't care and have lashed out. Then when I look back on it I feel deeply ashamed of what I have said. I would then give anything to take it back but obviously can't. This is the thing I'm working hardest to control about myself.

On the drawbacks of Si I find making never ending essays a problem - I feel the need to include every detail and find it difficult to select the relevant ones, maybe just me, what's the consensus?
I find this not so bad in essays (though I do tend to go back, re-read and add explanation, often several times) but where I fall into this problem is in giving written explanations to someone. I have to carefully detail every little thing that needs to be done, because like you I find it hard to isolate which are the important ones for other people. I can find it quite paralysing if I'm forced to select down to a certain number of details.
 

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That makes me wonder if I am an ISFJ.

Where do traditions come into play?

Reason I ask is because most descriptions of Si include somthing about them prefering tradition and that is the part that makes me choose INFJ for myself instead of ISFJ.
 

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That makes me wonder if I am an ISFJ.

Where do traditions come into play?

Reason I ask is because most descriptions of Si include somthing about them prefering tradition and that is the part that makes me choose INFJ for myself instead of ISFJ.
I've found that for me tradition doesn't mean, you know, being 'traditional' in the accepted sense, it means I like family traditions etc etc. I actually have a fairly progressive outlook for most things (though the recent loss of several heritage buildings in my city did upset me), but I do value having a few events that tie us together as a family that we always do at a certain time. Like I like the way we celebrate Christmas here, for example, and when my mother tried to change the way we did it I was really unsettled about it.

Having said that, there are things that are meant to be stereotypically ISFJ that I just don't have/do (possibly because whenever I have tested I have come out very close on the S/N divide), but I am very obviously ISFJ to myself. The way the functions work do all fit me even if they don't quite fit me in the traditional ISFJ ways sometimes.
 
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That makes me wonder if I am an ISFJ.

Where do traditions come into play?

Reason I ask is because most descriptions of Si include somthing about them prefering tradition and that is the part that makes me choose INFJ for myself instead of ISFJ.
every day is a tradition for the isfj

it's not the traditions, in the traditional sense, that the isfjs are bound to but the traditions in the practical sense. the traditions which allow us to gracefully move about in our comfort zone while maintaining a more-than adequate spontaneous level of zero. :wink:
 

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Put simply

Ni = What could be.
Si = What should be.

Maybe it's not that simple...

One thing to note about ISFJs is that they are in fact highly analytical. I know for me, I analyze things from a logical point of view myself, just like the INTP, but the analysis may lack objectivity and conclusions jumped to are at risk of being partial.

It's not like Fi where you know how you feel, ISFJs are logic nuggets I like to call them, but assuming healthiness and having the right acquaintances, things that make sense make us optimistic about their application to the real world.

Am I the only one who thinks this way?

It is my understanding that the Si-Fe combo tends to want to put something together through analysis, see it's ideally flawless execution and see it impact other people in a positive manner.
 

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Put simply

Ni = What could be.
Si = What should be.

Maybe it's not that simple...

One thing to note about ISFJs is that they are in fact highly analytical. I know for me, I analyze things from a logical point of view myself, just like the INTP, but the analysis may lack objectivity and conclusions jumped to are at risk of being partial.

It's not like Fi where you know how you feel, ISFJs are logic nuggets I like to call them, but assuming healthiness and having the right acquaintances, things that make sense make us optimistic about their application to the real world.

Am I the only one who thinks this way?

It is my understanding that the Si-Fe combo tends to want to put something together through analysis, see it's ideally flawless execution and see it impact other people in a positive manner.
I get what you mean, up to the flawless excecution >_> In my minds eye things have to be perfectly logic'd together other wise they're not worth my time, and I feel a tad bit angstful.

Si...like getting lost in the details if you're a little unstable; a map (In it's sorted, Ti'ified form) of details, rather than the clouds of the INFJ.
 

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I get what you mean, up to the flawless excecution >_> In my minds eye things have to be perfectly logic'd together other wise they're not worth my time, and I feel a tad bit angstful.

Si...like getting lost in the details if you're a little unstable; a map (In it's sorted, Ti'ified form) of details, rather than the clouds of the INFJ.
Ahhh, I think I see now. I work with about 90% clouds and 10% Ti'ified detail. I am horrible with details if someone askes me something. I am however pretty picky about the way things are done if I have already gone over it a bunch and developed the "best" way in my opinion of doing it.

Thanks :happy:
 

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My cloud is an airship:



It's big, but solidly present. :wink: Now what hold's the thing together? I'd have to study it more...

Liminality, perhaps I used the wrong words to describe what an ISFJ does. The ISFJ like to have ideas and implement them, but the reason for doing so is because they get satisfaction out of how it will positively affect other people... perhaps in my case... impress?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Where do traditions come into play?
Why a lot of descriptions of ISFJs talk about traditions is because we are a people of routine. Traditions can play apart of that routine and is a way to express Fe in a positive manner(like eating with family during the Holidays). However, not all ISFJ's will necessarily view traditions as a good thing if they do not see value in them.


Si...like getting lost in the details if you're a little unstable; a map (In it's sorted, Ti'ified form) of details, rather than the clouds of the INFJ.
As Si is a passive function, it is possible to get overwhelmed by constant stream of data unless a focus is established.
 
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