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Yesterday, I was reading through some of the posts on this forum when this little advertisement by Google caught my attention. This is what it read:

INTROVERT= LOSER
Being yourself is not the Solution. Its the problem. Learn to change.'
Popular - How to Become Popular

Initailly, this ad infuriated me to no end. But then, I got thinking why such thinking is actually prevalent amongst some of us in the society.

I thought about the topic from both viewpoints and this is the summary of my thoughts:
-Being an Introvert can put you at a disadvantage especially when you are not articulate enough, are ineffective at communicating, do not know how to handle social situations as well as a typical extrovert might, do not fit into the society as well.
- But on the other side, being an Introvert makes you a loser? Really? What kind of excessive, incorrectly presumed generalisation is this? Being an introvert doesn't make you any less articulate or any worse at communicating effectively with others. It's just that we don't choose to. Unlike extroverts whose inner energy increases the more they talk to others, our energy is drained. But we still can talk to others a lot and pretend to be extrovert, we just don't prefer to. So, it doesn't make us any worse at social situations.

So, what are your views on this?
Do you think being an introvert really puts you at a disadvantage or is it just another difference that's a part of our personality.
Do you find such ads infuriating, offensive, indifferent, acceptable, agreeable?
What are some of the reasons that some people out there associate introverts with losers with such extreme opinions?
 

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You already know me:
- I’m that slacker at work who gets promoted over your hard working ass
- I’m the loudmouth talking over your best comments with useless crap to cheers of admiration
- I’m the one who's out having a good time while you sit around thinking about ‘how great your future will be’
Just what I want to be someone who does nothing productive every day and spews useless crap that cows would be embarrassed of.

I would much rather work hard and have insightful comments that go unnoticed than pay one cent for that. And why would someone want to go around manipulating everyone that you meet?

I am quite happy being an introvert because I can put up with talking to people and going to events where numerous people are at just as well as having fun by myself.
 

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But on the other side, being an Introvert makes you a loser? Really? What kind of excessive, incorrectly presumed generalisation is this? Being an introvert doesn't make you any less articulate or any worse at communicating effectively with others.
I read somewhere once before (can't recall the source) that 75% of people were Extroverts. Therefore, the 25% of us that are Introverts are at a disadvantage in society simply because the majority of people are opposite of the way we are. Society generally follows the path of least resistance and goes with the majority opinion (or in this case, the majority "E"). Because we're the minority, we're viewed as "different", "odd", or whatever by the majority E's.
Having said that, being an Introvert does not make me a loser. Whoever thought up that ad is playing of the insecurities and self-esteem issues of people. I know plenty of Introverts with great self-esteem. I know plenty that have none. I can say the same exact thing about Extroverts. Some have great self-esteem; some do not. The ad is simply running the numbers game; in a month's time, if they even sell half a dozen of these things, then I guarantee you that they will have made their money that they spent advertising here. They don't care if we're offended or not; they're just looking to capitalize on some people's insecurities and they are ALSO targeting a specific market via well ... "target marketing" ... lol.
FWIW, I totally ignore the ads that are on the site. I'm an online marketer's worst enemy. Not that I don't shop online (because I DO) ... but I do it on my terms, not on the "ad of the moment", or the "new hotness".

Do you think being an introvert really puts you at a disadvantage or is it just another difference that's a part of our personality.
What are some of the reasons that some people out there associate introverts with losers with such extreme opinions?
It CAN put us at a disadvantage inasmuch as that at least in MY case, I'm always thinking up a clever and witty reply ... AFTER I'm on my way home, left the event, etc. I'm not quick on my feet when sparring verbally, but I've gotten better as I've gotten older.
In my case, part of the problem was that I was terrified to speak in public to more than about two people at the same time until I was forced to take a public speaking class. While I still don't LIKE doing it, I know that I CAN do it.
Anyway, the majority of people (the majority E's) ... some of them have such extreme views because of media portrayals of introverts in the media. Nearly all of them are portrayed in a less-than-flattering light. Since most people are addicted to television, they believe what they see, instead of going out and finding out the truth for themselves.

Just my .02, of course. HTH.
 

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being an introvert does not mean poor social skills!!! Im so tired of people thinking this..... I think this is the reason why everyone hates being called an introvert- just the last night I was explaining types to my introverted roommates and they were like '"oh but sometimes I can be really extroverted when I am talking with my friends or going out" and I was like [email protected]$%^$#@@$%%$#@[email protected]#$%^ :crying:

Although I do think that society values people with extroverted characteristics over introverted characteristics, I don't think that being an introvert is an excuse to call someone disadvantaged. and I'm pretty sure they have the wrong definition of introversion at it applies to MBTI anyways. Call me cocky, but I can handle myself just fine in social situations and even better than a lot of extroverts.
 

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Introversions puts us at a general disadvantage in a lot of respects. We don't have the experience the extroverts have in social situations. It's also bound to bring bad selfconfidence because we may for many years of our lives think that there's something wrong with us and therefore force ourselves into social situations. Lets face it: in the general eyes of society we are the losers and there's nothing we can do about it. We can't be ourselves and be the popular person at the same time. We will always have to be actors to mask ourselves in general society.
 

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As I'm reading this thread...I notice that ad is actually here...right after the OP. I shit you not.

'"oh but sometimes I can be really extroverted when I am talking with my friends or going out" and I was like [email protected]$%^$#@@$%%$#@[email protected]#$%^ :crying:
that made me laugh :laughing:

Although I do think that society values people with extroverted characteristics over introverted characteristics, I don't think that being an introvert is an excuse to call someone disadvantaged. and I'm pretty sure they have the wrong definition of introversion at it applies to MBTI anyways. Call me cocky, but I can handle myself just fine in social situations and even better than a lot of extroverts.
Agreed. Mainly it depends on my mood. Sometimes I do just keep to myself, but I am often the extravert of my group, since they are sometimes rudely quiet or get pushed over because they're afraid to talk. (And they're both T's...the ISFP does the protecting lol)
 

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Sorry, but screw that! I'm not going to mask, or act, as if I'm someone else. I don't really care if I'm popular. I yam what I yam. :tongue:
Popularity = expending a tremendous amount of energy.
Is that something that we all actually want?
I think skygghet's nailed it.
I've barely got enough to go around as it is; why do I want or need to expend any more on people that I might see a couple times a month?
(On the other hand, that's not an excuse for being rude or other poor behavior; I'm still polite in public.)
HTH
 

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I do wish that MBTI would coin and adopt a new word for introverts, much as they have done for extroverts. If you are talking about extroversion, but wish to relate it to MBTI, you can spell it as extraversion, which provides more clarity for those participating in the discussion. If we would spell introversion as intraversion when we are talking MBTI, I think the same clarity could be achieved.

FWIW, introverts (as in shy, bashful, retiring) do have a harder time of it in social situations. I know that extroverts will argue this point, but having lived long enough to do a lot of observing of people, there is little doubt that society is geared to reward confidence and extroverted behavior in social settings.

OTOH, intraversion and extraversion, as related to MBTI are simply indicators of the direction or source of our energy, and has little or no bearing on social ineptitude.

That said, you CAN overcome any social shortcomings and difficulties. DO NOT fall into the trap of thinking that this is how you are and you can't help it. You can learn to speak before large groups and keep them interested in what you have to say.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm living proof. Most people that know me in a business or social setting have no clue that I'm an introvert and that I had to overcome shyness so painful that carrying on a conversation with a stranger would cause me to blush and stammer. I've had so many tell me that they had no idea I was an introvert, whenever it came up in discussion.

Furthermore, now that I've had the opportunity to do so much public speaking, it no longer is such an emotional drain. Yeah, I still have to go home and charge the batteries, so I don't get my energy from the social interactions, but the batteries stay charged a lot longer than they used to in those settings.

You can handle anything that comes your way (including public speaking!) but you gotta have the want to.

Concerning the ad mentioned by Petals of Stone: I've seen it before. It angered me mostly because it is so condescending. Personally, I feel that anyone making such shallow generalizations couldn't possibly know me well enough to provide help to me in any way, shape or form. I ignore them and move on.
 

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I see that ad all the time. I read it through not too long ago and it really pissed me off.

Like most of you had said, I think people like the advertiser don't realize that people like us introverts are dually happy when we're on our own. Being alone has such a negative connotation in our society which ushers in a lot of misunderstanding when an introvert is seen by his or herself. To the advertiser, who gains energy from socialization, those that are alone must have something wrong with them.

Moving back to campus this week I've been really busy with the organizations I'm in. Lots of new faces, lots of meetings, lots of "ice breakers." I really enjoy meeting all the new people and I've had quite a lot of fun this week, but getting to my afternoon off today was like the Heavens opened up. Finally, some time to just sit, think and "recharge my batteries!"
 

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What was that saying we had a bit ago? It's better to be a fool and to keep your mouth shut and let no one know than to say something foolish and let everyone know (or something to that effect)

We all play our role in mankind, and some feel talking and the human connection is the best way to spend their time, as they search for enjoyment or love or something. Are they right for doing this? I would say no, because they're not being productive with their time in a way I believe to be productive. I am sensible enough though to say "my ways aren't always the best ways to do things even when they make the most sense to me", the author of that article is trashy for degrading people who have different values than his/her self.

Thats something we are losing in america respect and class. We could write an article to him emphasizing those things and he wouldn't be on the right side of the issue. LOL whats he got on us? the ability to talk. STFU and work lol *shrug*
 

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This guy isn't trying to teach people how to be extroverts, he is teaching them to be asses. It makes me want to cry (or to buy a gun and shoot him) that this person is making money off of other people's self-consciousness. It's a good thing for us to want to improve our social abilities but to suggest that there is something wrong with us is a different matter. It saddens me when I meet a young person who gets upset when they take a personality test and learn that they are an introvert.

Sure I think introverts are at a disadvantage in some ways, but we are at a great advantage in our ability to think deeply. Yes, we have to work harder at developing good interpersonal skills. But I've managed to develop my social skills and public speaking abiltiies to the point that people who meet me generally think I'm an extrovert. Sometimes I even test as an extrovert, but I still retain my self-reflective, deep-thinking abilities. And I don't have to manipulate people and compromise my morals to be successful and enjoy the company of other people.

P.S. Did you notice that nowhere in this crackpot's introvert-hating website does he dare give his name?!
 

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But on the other side, being an Introvert makes you a loser?
Really?
No. Really.
What kind of excessive, incorrectly presumed generalisation is this? Being an introvert doesn't make you any less articulate or any worse at communicating effectively with others. It's just that we don't choose to. Unlike extroverts whose inner energy increases the more they talk to others, our energy is drained. But we still can talk to others a lot and pretend to be extrovert, we just don't prefer to. So, it doesn't make us any worse at social situations.
But we are at a disadvantage. An extrovert handles those situation naturally, while we have to step out of our comfort zone and act the part. Does that make us any worse at the job? No, it may even make us better because we may be more prepared for certain situations that an extrovert hasn't thought of, but it does make the job more difficult.
Do you find such ads infuriating, offensive, indifferent, acceptable, agreeable?
Type 9 point of view. I don't see anything wrong with it. An ad is an ad. He's paying money to have it displayed. I do find it sort of sad if he actually believes that though.
What are some of the reasons that some people out there associate introverts with losers with such extreme opinions?
Well that answer is quite simple really. We don't have enough awesome introverts out there being role models and showing the world how awesome introverts can be.

Childrens' shows are filled with extroverts, and if they do include introverts, then they're side characters, the shy guy. Children then process that to real life, if you're introverted and shy then you're just a side character, aka loser.
Solution = more shows with awesome introverted characters like Batman.

As for me I've long accepted the fact that I am a loser and I've made it an art form :tongue:

P.S. Did you notice that nowhere in this crackpot's introvert-hating website does he dare give his name?!
You can't do that when you're manipulating the world around you; that's like being honest or something! And God forbid you tell the truth when you whole world is composed of lies, who knows what would happen.
 

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I looked at the ad and one has to remember it is used to catch your attention so you will possibly buy the book. I think we all have seen similar ads. This caught my eye:

"Unlike them, I’m not motivated by publishing deals, tenures, or academic approval/recognition. I don’t have to censor my information or my language to meet someone else’s notion of ‘proper’. Maybe some think my straight talk is unprofessional, but I’m the one with the solutions and that’s what matters. I change people’s lives. They just talk about doing it. "

Yes you may change peoples lives that is if they buy your book and "follow" your advice. If your not motivated by publishing deal then why dont you just put all your info up instead of making people buy it. Everybody talks and you are doing the same still you haven't shown enough to really make yourself different from the rest.

Both introversion and extroversion have their strengths and weaknesses. As many others have stated we have been told and shown examples more of extroverted behavior so we have come to automatically assume introversion as something that is not good. We all know extroverts that we would not be around just as their are introverts we would not want to be around. If you solely base someone as bad just because they are not talkative as you maybe you need to notice all the different types of people because they all are different and offer various things.

As far as the ad i find someone knows how to get your attention. Look at infomercials you see on tv and they use similar tactics. This person is giving out his information saying it can change your life, how many self help, motivation, books claim that same thing. Personally i just read it and let it go seen to many of the same thing out there.

We all have our experiences and those experiences flavor our choices. Maybe these people met someone different from them and it did not turn out as a positive thing. So they think anyone different from them is bad or inferior. Sooner or later you will have experiences that will challenge that belief and you will either change your view or go into denial. So i think our experiences and other factors make people think of introverts as strange, losers, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I read somewhere once before (can't recall the source) that 75% of people were Extroverts.
I read the exact same thing in Please Understand Me by David Keirsey. That book is great for MBTI related statistics. Acoording to it, 25% of people in general are I, 75% are S, 60% of males are T and 60% of Females are F and 50% are J and P.
I would have expected more I people because I have come across so many. Or maybe its just that I socialise more with I people.:dry:

They don't care if we're offended or not; they're just looking to capitalize on some people's insecurities and they are ALSO targeting a specific market via well ... "target marketing" ... lol..
I had thought that one great advantage of knowing about MBTI types was apart from understanding yourself better, you can understand where others viewpoints are coming from. We might not agree with every person's views but accepting our differences gives way to some degree of respect and understanding. We don't put others down for their differences. Here we accept it. And the irony is, this site where MBTI forms an intergral part- such an ad is being shown. Where understanding was meant to develop, the person's taking us for target audience, telling us that these differences are wrong. Just ironic.

I totally ignore the ads that are on the site.
I generally ignore such ads too for it is obviously written by either a deluded person or one who is trying to manipulate us with no success. But after seeing the ads, I just started thinking about it as it my tendency since I am an introvert.

It CAN put us at a disadvantage inasmuch as that at least in MY case, I'm always thinking up a clever and witty reply ... AFTER I'm on my way home, left the event, etc. I'm not quick on my feet when sparring verbally, but I've gotten better as I've gotten older.
This has happenned many times with me as well but I had never associated it with me being an Introvert. I had thought it was due to me being slow and not creative enough to come up with a witty reply quickly on the scene. But perhaps being an extrovert does improve verbal wit. :unsure:

being an introvert does not mean poor social skills!!! Im so tired of people thinking this..... I think this is the reason why everyone hates being called an introvert- just the last night I was explaining types to my introverted roommates and they were like '"oh but sometimes I can be really extroverted when I am talking with my friends or going out" and I was like [email protected]$%^$#@@$%%$#@[email protected]#$%^ :crying:
and I'm pretty sure they have the wrong definition of introversion at it applies to MBTI anyways.
I do wish that MBTI would coin and adopt a new word for introverts, much as they have done for extroverts. If we would spell introversion as intraversion when we are talking MBTI, I think the same clarity could be achieved. OTOH, intraversion and extraversion, as related to MBTI are simply indicators of the direction or source of our energy, and has little or no bearing on social ineptitude.
I have to say that we really need to distinguish introversion in general terms as viewed by society to as viewed in MBTI. As mentioned before, introversion in MBTI is about the direction our energy flows (which is internally). But introversion generally has the connotation that a person is shy and socially awkward.
Once someone asked me to describe myself as accurately as I could. And I thought, I could just say I am an IxTJ as that is the best accurate description of me. So, I started telling that person that I was Introverted to begin with. And the first thing they remarked was, "So, you are shy?" No!!! That is not so. We MBTI Introverts can handle ourselves well if we want to in social situations. We just like to keep our energy inside as defined by Carl Jung.

Lets face it: in the general eyes of society we are the losers and there's nothing we can do about it. We can't be ourselves and be the popular person at the same time. We will always have to be actors to mask ourselves in general society.
People's thinking is based more on assumptions than actual thinking. Since majority is of Extroverts and we appear to be different, they perceive us to be losers. But this is a misinformed opinion. And I am not putting on any masks for such misinformed people. I am not only acceptable but happy of who I am. I am not changing myself for others. And if you perceive me to be different, then heck that's your problem to deal with.:tongue:

Concerning the ad mentioned by Petals of Stone: I've seen it before. It angered me mostly because it is so condescending. Personally, I feel that anyone making such shallow generalizations couldn't possibly know me well enough to provide help to me in any way, shape or form. I ignore them and move on.
That is a really good point to make. Seriously, any one with any sense would not buy that book after reading that ad. Pointless...:dry:

We all play our role in mankind, and some feel talking and the human connection is the best way to spend their time, as they search for enjoyment or love or something. Are they right for doing this? I would say no, because they're not being productive with their time in a way I believe to be productive. I am sensible enough though to say "my ways aren't always the best ways to do things even when they make the most sense to me", the author of that article is trashy for degrading people who have different values than his/her self.
Definitely agreed. I mean in the end extroverts by talking more or spending more time with others don't do anything productive while we atleast were thinking about something useful (not that that actually ends up being very productive:tongue:) So, in the end both of us are being unproductive so we are pretty equal- none better or worse.
However, the important point to note is that most of us Introverts can adapt ourselves in different contexts to appear more Extrovert like and do what they do. However, Extroverts in general will have trouble being more introverted. We get advantages from both ends. Yay!:laughing:

We could write an article to him emphasizing those things and he wouldn't be on the right side of the issue. LOL whats he got on us? the ability to talk. STFU and work lol *shrug*
That is a good idea except what would that achieve....arguing with a deluded/ failure in manipulation person? Probably waste of time and energy.

P.S. Did you notice that nowhere in this crackpot's introvert-hating website does he dare give his name?!
Good call. Scared of us, is he? Or not 'popular' enough to have his name mentioned...?:crazy:

Well that answer is quite simple really. We don't have enough awesome introverts out there being role models and showing the world how awesome introverts can be.
Solution = more shows with awesome introverted characters like Batman.
Yep. Except that it is improbable as we are introverts and so more likely to spend our time thinking about something than showing the world how awesome we actually are.

P.S- Sorry for the massive post.
 

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Great posts - interesting reading and some really good points made.
Personally, I think the author's missing out on being friends with some pretty neat people. *shrugs* Their loss! :wink:
 

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Just curious, what are some strengths you all think we introverts have in contrast to extroverts?

Example: Extroverts have the advantage of talking easily with others, while (most of the time) introverts feel a little less comfortable doing so.

What's something that somebody would say, "Oh, this is a job for an introvert?"



FTW on the Batman thing, also. :)
 
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