[Kilgore Trout]

Do you often make connections in your mind but have trouble explaining them to others? I find that certain ideas that are related seem obvious to me. I take them as being there, in the open, connected. But when I search for the words to explain that connection, it is not as obvious as I thought. I have to retrace my steps to how I got to the answer, which takes some time, because the relation has to be precise to make sense. Do you people have trouble explaining or forget to spell out what seems to be immediately present? Do you find Ti/Ne to be a linear thinking process or a more holistic one? Is your communication of the connections you see easier in writing or in speaking?

 

[Richard]

Yeah this seriously hampers my ability to communicate, in real time at the very least. I have spent a fair amount of time trying to untangle and pin down the various threads over the years, but the process is tedious. I should read more to benefit from the frameworks others have established, but I just cba most of the time.

The best part is when I make associations that have no basis and I spend ages on a wild goose chase trying to justify rubbish. Never a dull moment.

 

[Proteus]

Story of my life. It's hampered me at work when having to train or explain things to other people and often leads to misunderstandings. I've gotten better at it over time and if I've an opportunity to prepare first then I can come up with the proper means to explain what I need to, but on the spot my descriptions and explanations can sometimes obfuscate the truth or unintentionally mislead, just because some things are so obvious to me I can't explain them and just expect everyone else to get them.

It hampers me in my personal life as well. Often I have to awkwardly explain jokes or other comments that were meant to be benign and were taken the wrong way as they were not expressed verbally the same way they sounded in my head. It can actually be even more awkward when communicating with other highly intuitive people as sometimes their intuition picks up on different subtext than what was actually intended, and I definitely do that myself with regards to things others say.

Just further signs I don't know how to Te.

 

[onebelo]

i read a good description on this somewhere, it said something like INTPs would pick out contrasts and little details and try to explain them and then expand their idea by piecing it together, whilst other types like ESTJ for example would start out with a the overview of their point and then use details and such to persuade you round to their idea

 

[Richard]

i read a good description on this somewhere, it said something like INTPs would pick out contrasts and little details and try to explain them and then expand their idea by piecing it together, whilst other types like ESTJ for example would start out with a the overview of their point and then use details and such to persuade you round to their idea

I tend to do both, in a very uncoordinated manner.
I do most of my thinking(relaxed mode) in a top down fashion. I intuit my way through thoughts in fuzzy detail and, much like with google maps, I zoom in to increase the resolution when necessary/on a whim.

I am capable of paying attention to detail, but only in small localised areas at a time and it drains a fair amount of my energy to do so.

The shit hits the fan when my free thinking is confronted with reality. Suddenly my lofty ideas are faced with very real data at the detailed level, and I’m required to find a marriage between the abstract and the practical whilst trying to maintain coherency.
The second real constraints are imposed upon me, my detailed and abstract thought become extremely stratified and disjoint. Things start to crystalise and ideas that once seemed complementary now cease to fit, I have a great deal of difficulty marrying ruminations with the real.
These frequent conflicts remind me of my intellectual impotence and indulgence in contemplative masturbation.

According to your description I think much more like an ESTJ than I do an INTP(except I’m far more interested in finding the truth than persuading others to my version of the story).

 

[Owfin]

I think slightly different permutations of this problem are shared amongst all introverts.

 

[Ablysmal]

I almost always can't explain my chaotic web of thoughts to others. They make sense to me when I first form the connections, but when someone asks me to explain and I'm put through the process of breaking the web down, then I lose my whole train of thought. And I can neither fully explain myself in writing nor in speaking... I think I'm going to try interpretive dance.

 

[Lozan]

I would think this is an issue of Ti; having great internal models of things (which make a lot of sense to us) which are hard to translate into words.

And yes, this is a problem I struggle with.

Also, @Richard, that was a great description with zooming. That is a good way to describe my thought process when I'm trying to figure something out. I will generally build up models on a very coarse level, zooming in on the individual pieces to confirm that they make sense and them going back to the bigger view. The only problem is that when I try to explain something, I tend to still think of it in the broader view, which makes me underestimate the tremendous amount of detail that I have "confirmed and forgotten" and need to explain for things to make sense. Plus, having to add huge chunks of information in the middle of explaining something tends to confuse some people, because while I know exactly what I am clarifying they might not.

 

[Epictetus]

It's kind of like when a rabbit buys a new table, only to find out that he forgot to buy sunscreen.

I hope that you understand the connection I'm trying to make, as I might have trouble explaining it to you.

 

[Ablysmal]

It's kind of like when a rabbit buys a new table, only to find out that he forgot to buy sunscreen.

I hope that you understand the connection I'm trying to make, as I might have trouble explaining it to you.

It's obvious that the rabbit is a representation of the intuitive leap, the table is a form of stability in which the leap can be formed, and the forgotten sunscreen is when the leap eventually bursts into flames.

See, it helps when you're communicating your thoughts to a fellow nut job that can follow crazy tangents and metaphors.

 

[Epictetus]

It's obvious that the rabbit is a representation of the intuitive leap, the table is a form of stability in which the leap can be formed, and the forgotten sunscreen is when the leap eventually bursts into flames.

See, it helps when you're communicating your thoughts to a fellow nut job that can follow crazy tangents and metaphors.

 

[Marimeli]

It's obvious that the rabbit is a representation of the intuitive leap, the table is a form of stability in which the leap can be formed, and the forgotten sunscreen is when the leap eventually bursts into flames.

See, it helps when you're communicating your thoughts to a fellow nut job that can follow crazy tangents and metaphors.

Heh, I explain things to others almost exclusively via analogy and metaphor. Providing examples saves me having to explain the process myself; if I SHOW them the right example, they're likely to get there on their own without me having to use an imperfect, half-assed or convoluted attempt to explain a thought process that wasn't linear in the first place.

If that makes me a nut job, then scoot over on your institution's sofa and save me a seat and an aluminum-foil hat. See what I did there?

 

[KINGJADEX]

Often I have to awkwardly explain jokes or other comments that were meant to be benign and were taken the wrong way as they were not expressed verbally the same way they sounded in my head.

I don't want to divert this thread down onto lower fifth but I think it's interesting that people express inner thoughts as voices in their head; for example, you were just saying that something sounded a specific way in your head. Why do we relate thoughts to hearing? Why not relate them to different senses, hell, why relate them at all? Eh, it's just something that popped into my head, perhaps it sounded better there too.

 

[Haldir]

This just happened to me 20 minutes ago. I found out that someone thought I had told that they shouldn't talk shit about people when I was trying to express that they should realize when they are being hurtful in their retaliations, and if they are going to be retaliatory it should at least be on the same relative level as the wrong that was perpetrated upon them and not go overboard. You know, punishment fitting the crime and all. *Sigh*
@KINGJADEX I tend to say things "sound" right because that is my preferred method of taking in information (and probably why I developed an unhealthy obsession with the "Say dem things" thread there for a minute). I took a sales class once where they taught us to find out how the customer likes to learn and use words that reflect that. I did a lot of "that looks like your best option" and "do you see what I mean?" This is one seriously visual society, let me me "tell" you. See what I did there? Oh, it was lame? Sorry about that.

 

[KINGJADEX]

I tend to say things "sound" right because that is my preferred method of taking in information (and probably why I developed an unhealthy obsession with the "Say dem things" thread there for a minute). I took a sales class once where they taught us to find out how the customer likes to learn and use words that reflect that. I did a lot of "that looks like your best option" and "do you see what I mean?" This is one seriously visual society, let me me "tell" you. See what I did there? Oh, it was lame? Sorry about that.

You took a different approach to this than I, but nonetheless it's an interesting thought, maybe some groups of the MBTI such as ourselves prefer "That sounds right." Whereas the others are more visual like you were saying, they'd prefer to hear "Looks good."

 

[Snakecharmer]

Yes.

Thankfully, most people discover this trait pretty quickly and just think it is another one of my quirks. One of my friends gave me a card that said, "Today I heard a joke that reminded me of you. It went on and on and made no sense." People have always told me that they can't follow my line of thinking or that I talk in circles. Oh well...it makes perfect sense in MY head...

 

[Owfin]

I don't want to divert this thread down onto lower fifth but I think it's interesting that people express inner thoughts as voices in their head; for example, you were just saying that something sounded a specific way in your head. Why do we relate thoughts to hearing? Why not relate them to different senses, hell, why relate them at all? Eh, it's just something that popped into my head, perhaps it sounded better there too.

Probably because one out of our two main senses used for language is hearing. The other is sight, which is why we have more people who are visual thinkers than, say, touch thinkers.

 

[QuietStorm]

Yes..... yes. That happens quite a bit

It most awkwardly results in me laughing at a joke that no one else even knows exists, or my having to explain a concept and losing myself in the explanation. In either case... I look like I'm losing my mind.

 

[xxWanderer]

I find it easier to get my point across in writing. I usually have so much going on in my mind. I know what I'm trying to get across but I can't find the write words to get out what I'm trying to say. Then I end up confusing people or what I do say comes out very basic. Then I may started to stutter and I have to try and remember what I was trying to say. My mind has moved on an it can be hard to get that back onto that trail of thought. But if I was writing it I can put my ideas together and explain it in the way I'd like to as it also gives me the chance think as I write. I can't think out loud. Writing it down is like saying what is exactly in my mind.

 

[incline5]

The problem I have, is that arguments fall apart once you try to dumb them down or simplify them so others can understand the relationships or at least how you arrived at your conclusion.... If someone doesnt get it after explaining it twice, I just leave it alone because they're not going to get it...

oftentimes we don't even understand how we make these leaps and since we never leave a trail of breadcrumbs its hard to find your way back to the origin.