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Intuition (or Brain Radar): Look, okay, you've definitely done a typo. Check it through before you hit send.

Logic: Don't be stupid intuition. I was slow and careful. My figures add up.

Intuition: Seriously. You know I've been right about these kinds of things before.

Logic: You're not really intuition, you're just fear, you're being paranoid.

Intuition: And you're being cocky and lazy, would you just listen to me?

Logic: No. Don't be stupid. Make sense. Brain over-ride. Click "send."

Intuition: *Sighs*

Logic: *Reviews sent message. Sees a glaringly obvious incorrect figure.*

Logic: How did you know that??

Intuition: *Rolls eyes, displays momentary hurt, smiles*

Logic: Right, okay. You were right, I was wrong, are you, what's that thing called, happy?

This conversation was practically just had inside my brain. Slowly I'm learning to trust my intuition more. This time I did not. Damn damn damn, that one typo. I just know when something isn't right.

Your "intuition" is based on reason. Reason is rooted in logic. Your example is self-defeating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Your "intuition" is based on reason. Reason is rooted in logic. Your example is self-defeating.
Hence the start: "Intuition (or Brain Radar):"
 

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I don't understand how you can compare intuition to logic/thinking--at least in a cognitive function sense. Intuition is a perceiving function; thinking is a judging function. Intuition is useless without thinking (or god forbid feeling) to interpret it. Thinking is useless without intuition or sensing to fuel it.
 
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With the Google. All the kids are using it these days.
Well, what I meant is specifically, what titles and names do these tests go by so that I may more easily find them.

I like to search using Startpage, myself.
 

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Sometimes intuition isn't an answer/end in and of itself. Sometimes it is a distant and echoing, "Look over here!" off in the distance when logic says first do this step, and conduct this test, and then try this formula. Intuition sort of says, "Screw those tests and steps. Just try this one for Pete's sake. Just TRY it." It can be very insistent. Sometimes it can also be a wild goose chase. When it is right, it is fantastic. Logic can help with the final verification and the retracing the steps backward for the sake of communicating and duplicating. They do need to work very closely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Ooohh, look what we have here, dragon. An ISTJ. *Rubs hands together.*

Um, is that supposed to be a good thing or a bad thing?

I am a bit confused why an ISTJ would be commenting on this thread, which was intended to ask INTPs about their experiences. I can't quite explain the dragon comment to you, except that it means something different to either "good" or "bad."

An ENTP I'm slightly less confused about.
 

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During the past few years I've come to trust my intuition. Whenever I've tried to go against it, for some 'logical' reason or another, I've always been wrong. Every. single. time.

There have been a few times that I've known something I shouldn't. For example, a couple of years ago, out of the blue I was worried about my step-mom during a snowstorm. Usually, I'd have ignored the feeling - hell we get a good amount of snow here. This time, I was really compelled to called her. I did, and she had just skidded her car down the side of the road and into a tree. She was ok (the snow had slowed the car and it hit on the passenger side), but the car was totaled.

I was actually pretty freaked out about that whole scenario.
 

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Yes, yes, I do enjoy eclairs. I find them quite delectable.

I shall relate to le chair sentences.
 
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I don't know much with any confidence, but my half-assed hunch is that intuition is not connected to some mysterious external source, but is instead the brain making connections and picking up on details unconsciously/semiconsciously.

So, where logic is a conscious psychological function, intuition is sort of like a bunch of dots being connected instantaneously in the brain, by the brain, because our mind is extremely complex and can thus have varying levels of consciousness operating simultaneously.

I am not sure how to explain this precisely/succinctly. What I mean to say is sort of that... while you're reading and writing (or doing whatever) and doing all of your conscious work, your brain is doing lots more work behind the curtain. And, sometimes you're lucky enough to get a whiff of what it's cooking. I think intuition is sort of like a higher awareness of what is going on behind that curtain.

Sensors seem to rely more on what they consciously know. They are conscious learners and conscious rememberers, relayers, reciters, whatev. Intuitives seem to absorb a shitload of information but not always remember exactly where they learned something/know completely how it connects to everything, or they know something very complex because certain learned points connect and simply "make sense" in a sort of semiconscious way, and then when something triggers a bit of info they know, that will trigger a sort of chain reaction of all the shit they know/reason subconsciously, and then *boom* they get a whiff of some answer of some complex explanation that they "just know" without knowing how.

Does that make sense? I'm still making sense of it myself. This is something I've pondered for a while but have never revealed to anyone.
 

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Well, Ni =/= Ne. Sounds like you're doing Ni since Ne can't arrive at conclusions on its own. And I could probably practice Ni if I actually understood how the damn thing worked inside of me...
Ne can't arrive at conclusions on its own? I see how that would make sense, but I do believe that the web I can spin of intuition, say, when I spit out a story or some pseudo-philosophical idea on the spot, is something of a series of conclusions being tied together.

I mean, it seems that as I talk, intuition pulls more and more together and just makes sense of things and pulls ideas that I wouldn't have known I knew while engaged in solo Ti time.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, and there very well may be some semantic errors/inconsistency in my idea here...

EDIT: Oi, sorry for the double-post. I meant to add this quote into my first post.
 

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Ne can't arrive at conclusions on its own? I see how that would make sense, but I do believe that the web I can spin of intuition, say, when I spit out a story or some pseudo-philosophical idea on the spot, is something of a series of conclusions being tied together.

I mean, it seems that as I talk, intuition pulls more and more together and just makes sense of things and pulls ideas that I wouldn't have known I knew while engaged in solo Ti time.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, and there very well may be some semantic errors/inconsistency in my idea here...

EDIT: Oi, sorry for the double-post. I meant to add this quote into my first post.
You need Ti to interpret the data Ne provides with. Ne only creates connections but it cannot draw conclusions whether the connections are probable or not or likely or not.
 

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I don't know much with any confidence, but my half-assed hunch is that intuition is not connected to some mysterious external source, but is instead the brain making connections and picking up on details unconsciously/semiconsciously.

So, where logic is a conscious psychological function, intuition is sort of like a bunch of dots being connected instantaneously in the brain, by the brain, because our mind is extremely complex and can thus have varying levels of consciousness operating simultaneously.

I am not sure how to explain this precisely/succinctly. What I mean to say is sort of that... while you're reading and writing (or doing whatever) and doing all of your conscious work, your brain is doing lots more work behind the curtain. And, sometimes you're lucky enough to get a whiff of what it's cooking. I think intuition is sort of like a higher awareness of what is going on behind that curtain.

Sensors seem to rely more on what they consciously know. They are conscious learners and conscious rememberers, relayers, reciters, whatev. Intuitives seem to absorb a shitload of information but not always remember exactly where they learned something/know completely how it connects to everything, or they know something very complex because certain learned points connect and simply "make sense" in a sort of semiconscious way, and then when something triggers a bit of info they know, that will trigger a sort of chain reaction of all the shit they know/reason subconsciously, and then *boom* they get a whiff of some answer of some complex explanation that they "just know" without knowing how.

Does that make sense? I'm still making sense of it myself. This is something I've pondered for a while but have never revealed to anyone.
Yeah I think you're right about this. An analogy would be that logic is the CEO and intuition are the thousands of worker bees silently working and being randomly given prizes when they come up with something good that the CEO can present to the world and get monies. There's a lot of politicking among the workers, and sometimes the best ideas are left on the ground floor because a louder idea got to the CEO's office first. For example, that's how I thought of this analogy.
 

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I've done some training in intuitive development, and was surprised at the results. During training, I knew things I could not have known through logic. I am convinced that intuition trumps logic (ie. that logic is a tool, and quite laborious, whereas well-trained intuition can be much more efficient on less information).

In the future, this is a skill that I will cultivate further. The catch is that thinking is counter-productive to the development of intuition, however my observation is that those controlled by their thinking and only their thinking, can tend to be stuck in loops when viewed from a big picture view. This makes it a particular challenge for thinkers to develop, which makes it particularly interesting to me.

For me, anything which is compulsive and untrained (as both thinking and curiosity can be for an INTP) there exists an imbalance and a fundamental lack of freedom (even if on the surface these things may look like freedom).

"The Clairs*" have become to me an ordinary part of life to me. I think that everyone has the capacity to be more intuitive. Psychic has become a dirty word. People (INTPs included) often meet any sort of discussion about this topic with silence, or "I don't know what to believe."

This thread is to understand if there are any other INTPs out there who are comfortable discussing these phenomena. Please contribute if you have something to say other than "I don't believe" or "I don't know what to believe" or mentions of psychic tv / street corner psychics.

Obviously this is quite a step apart from the glorified "thinking" aspect of an INTP, though I'm hoping the Ne that's normally discussed as "being taken out for a walk" has the capacity to run / fly / basejump too, and that there are others out there who have given some consideration to this too.

* "The Clairs:"

Clairsentience (Feeling / Touching)
Clairaudience (Hearing / Listening)
Clairalience (Smelling)
Claircognizance (Knowing)
Clairgustance (Tasting)
Clairvoyance (Seeing)

I have yet to read the posts on here, so I'm sorry if what I'm saying has already been said--I'll read them after I post this (I know, pointless haha).

As an INFJ, I rely on my intuition, but I have never thought of it as a psychic type of ability--in fact, it seems cocky to say your intuition is psychic.

Intuition is the ability to bypass logic and use previous observations, current observations, emotions, and another secret ingredient that I have yet to discover. There really isn't anything to believe or not believe--it just is.

Regardless of who you are, you have use intuition to a degree. To me, intuition is the ability to deduct a reason before any type of logic has been mapped in your brain. However, I have noticed, that after I use my intuition, I see what was used in order to come forth with my analysis.

There is nothing psychic about it. During "most" cases, both thinkers and intuitions come to the same conclusion, but intuition is faster. For most...there are still many times when the conclusion is vastly different from one another.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
I have yet to read the posts on here, so I'm sorry if what I'm saying has already been said--I'll read them after I post this (I know, pointless haha).

As an INFJ, I rely on my intuition, but I have never thought of it as a psychic type of ability--in fact, it seems cocky to say your intuition is psychic.

Intuition is the ability to bypass logic and use previous observations, current observations, emotions, and another secret ingredient that I have yet to discover. There really isn't anything to believe or not believe--it just is.

Regardless of who you are, you have use intuition to a degree. To me, intuition is the ability to deduct a reason before any type of logic has been mapped in your brain. However, I have noticed, that after I use my intuition, I see what was used in order to come forth with my analysis.

There is nothing psychic about it. During "most" cases, both thinkers and intuitions come to the same conclusion, but intuition is faster. For most...there are still many times when the conclusion is vastly different from one another.
Why do you think this sounds cocky?
 

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Why do you think this sounds cocky?
Because I'd feel offended of anyone trying to degrade such a wonder function to to being psychic. It's lazy. We have a hard time understanding what Ni is that we decide to just clump it in with pshychics? You guys are INTP - THINKERS! Come on, have a little creativity! I have so much respect for you people and your logic! don't disappoint me.

Here is a better explanation I've come up with.

This is just a theory of mine, but I believe that INFJs are always in constant thought, and even when they believe they aren't thinking, they still are. And for the reason why we can just "know" things is not because we have some hidden knowledge, but in fact, that we have knowledge.

I believe the moment we see something, our brain has already cross referenced it with dozens of observations we have already made in the past--and subconsciously makes a judgement or a decision on it--and then once the choice is made, it sends it to our conscience. All these happens in seconds.

That's what I think. The reason why I think this: Over the past few years, after I have used my intuition, my mind starts to show me the reason why I came to the choice I made. I'll see someone and instantly understand who they are. And after, I'll notice their clothing, speech, word choices, eye contact with others, looks around the room, and their tendencies to act as if they are texting on their phone.

All of what I just stated, I am guessing our brain does before we even realize it.

Another reason why I believe this comes down to the laws of attraction. Although we like to believe we have a set list of the perfect girl, in reality, our subconscious has already made up its mind about the opposite sex before we even realize.

I think, Ni is the ability to dig deep into our subconscious where many wonders are stored.
 
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