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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been kinda disturbed by the mass of people claiming that they are smart because of a stupid test score. Sure, if IQ could really determine how successful you could become, then I really do have no qualms. Thing is- it doesn't. A high IQ can actually undermine income, and I have the statistics to prove it.

(Half Sigma: High IQ may cause LOWER income)

Furthermore, how the fuck does a stupid test on vocabulary and patterns and math have anything to do with intelligence? The inconsistency of the test is so bad its hilarious. There was a time I got 93 on an IQ test in grade school, and I was assigned to an ESL class ( I was an asian immigrant). In middle school however, I had received a score of 125 and was assigned to a gifted class. How the FUCK can you rely on an IQ test that differs by a score of 30 points?

(Btw, I flunked the gifted glass, lol. I spent too much time playing maplestory and I sucked at math.)

We haven't even defined intelligence yet, and how to measure it. The way I see it, IQ can be improved by education. Come on? Math questions? With the proper knowledge, anyone can score well on an IQ test. Patterns? What the hell does that have to do with intelligence? Yeah, I see patterns. That so helped me to build a gun, put an end to the archaic period, and shoot people. Yeah, seeing patterns is sooo important.
Linguistic intelligence? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Good debating skills? Jokes? If that's the case, how the hell did I get a below average score in that if I won the debating competition last year?
(I seriously need a roll eyes or face-palm smiley right now)

And besides that, a 15 IQ score unreliability is a HUGE amount of points. Yeah, it's accurate in the range of 15 points. Yeah, accurate my ass.

So far, we have no correlation between income and IQ, and proven unreliability. What's next? It seems that the person with the highest IQ in the world go a simple geometric problem wrong (facepalm smiley here).

And it still hasn't explained how my friend, who does absolutely no work gets A's (he's pays attention though, while I go ADD) in a SUMMA program with no home-schooling flunked an IQ test. When questioned, the psychologist said that he probably worked harder than other students and I rolled my eyes so hard it hurt.

Yeah, if working hard means playing counterstrike for 10+ hours, he sure does work hard.

So far, I think that IQ is bullshit and a way to increased ego- and lower self-esteem (note: ego is an exaggerated version of self-esteem, while self-esteem is actually healthy)

Way to go, the-guy-who-created-this-fucking-system.
 

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IQ 138

Suck ass at maths, Can't use the english language properly, dont ask me to be grammatily correct, terrible at human relations.

Agreed on your statement.
 

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IQ 119.
i hate school...i spose that's why i have a low IQ XD.
 

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I hated school too. I think i was the lowest achiever in my entire senior class, if not in the lowest 5 achievers list.
lol, i had that problem too. i didn't care about school until grade 11 and was branded that "kid who can do so much better but has an arrogant attitude."
but i wasn't arrogant =(
i just liked other things more.
 
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I've been kinda disturbed by the mass of people claiming that they are smart because of a stupid test score. Sure, if IQ could really determine how successful you could become, then I really do have no qualms. Thing is- it doesn't. A high IQ can actually undermine income, and I have the statistics to prove it.

(Half Sigma: High IQ may cause LOWER income)

Furthermore, how the fuck does a stupid test on vocabulary and patterns and math have anything to do with intelligence? The inconsistency of the test is so bad its hilarious. There was a time I got 93 on an IQ test in grade school, and I was assigned to an ESL class ( I was an asian immigrant). In middle school however, I had received a score of 125 and was assigned to a gifted class. How the FUCK can you rely on an IQ test that differs by a score of 30 points?

(Btw, I flunked the gifted glass, lol. I spent too much time playing maplestory and I sucked at math.)

We haven't even defined intelligence yet, and how to measure it. The way I see it, IQ can be improved by education. Come on? Math questions? With the proper knowledge, anyone can score well on an IQ test. Patterns? What the hell does that have to do with intelligence? Yeah, I see patterns. That so helped me to build a gun, put an end to the archaic period, and shoot people. Yeah, seeing patterns is sooo important.
Linguistic intelligence? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Good debating skills? Jokes? If that's the case, how the hell did I get a below average score in that if I won the debating competition last year?
(I seriously need a roll eyes or face-palm smiley right now)

And besides that, a 15 IQ score unreliability is a HUGE amount of points. Yeah, it's accurate in the range of 15 points. Yeah, accurate my ass.

So far, we have no correlation between income and IQ, and proven unreliability. What's next? It seems that the person with the highest IQ in the world go a simple geometric problem wrong (facepalm smiley here).

And it still hasn't explained how my friend, who does absolutely no work gets A's (he's pays attention though, while I go ADD) in a SUMMA program with no home-schooling flunked an IQ test. When questioned, the psychologist said that he probably worked harder than other students and I rolled my eyes so hard it hurt.

Yeah, if working hard means playing counterstrike for 10+ hours, he sure does work hard.

So far, I think that IQ is bullshit and a way to increased ego- and lower self-esteem (note: ego is an exaggerated version of self-esteem, while self-esteem is actually healthy)

Way to go, the-guy-who-created-this-fucking-system.
The first IQ test (and likely the second) was probably not culturally fair, and since you didn't speak English well, you probably didn't have a fair chance at the problems, and you possibly didn't even understand the instructions/questions well.

By the time you were in middle school, you would have learned more/most of the language, so even if the 2nd test was not culturally fair, you had a better shot at it. And if it WAS culturally fair, well there's the answer right there. (Look how well you know English now...see? exactly)

Also there are different scoring percentages, standard deviations, percentiles, ceilings, etc. Not that I'm saying that IQ tests are reliable. (Very interesting stats on income, btw) Just pointing out some issues you might've had.

And your friend probably cheats. :laughing:

(btw I'm not posting my IQ...like I implied, I don't buy into IQ scores' reliability when it comes to measuring full intellectual potential. If my IQ really measured my intelligence, I should have discovered/done something fucking extraordinary, like discovering-the-cure-to-AIDS-whilst-working-in-a-Harvard-lab extraordinary. And I can barely even pass my Intermediate Accounting classes. :dry:)
 

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Yep, for me other things included everything beyond the monotony of school.
see! i'm not the only one who feels that way!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The first IQ test (and likely the second) was probably not culturally fair, and since you didn't speak English well, you probably didn't have a fair chance at the problems, and you possibly didn't even understand the instructions/questions well.

By the time you were in middle school, you would have learned more/most of the language, so even if the 2nd test was not culturally fair, you had a better shot at it. And if it WAS culturally fair, well there's the answer right there. (Look how well you know English now...see? exactly)

Also there are different scoring percentages, standard deviations, percentiles, ceilings, etc. Not that I'm saying that IQ tests are reliable. (Very interesting stats on income, btw) Just pointing out some issues you might've had.

And your friend probably cheats. :laughing:

(btw I'm not posting my IQ...like I implied, I don't buy into IQ scores' reliability when it comes to measuring full intellectual potential. If my IQ really measured my intelligence, I should have discovered/done something fucking extraordinary, like discovering-the-cure-to-AIDS-whilst-working-in-a-Harvard-lab extraordinary. And I can barely even pass my Intermediate Accounting classes. :dry:)
LOL, my friend is a high-ass achieving ENTP. Currently in harvard, and e-mails me to say he hates it (about two older than me). I won't be surprised if he drops out though. He says he wants to go vandwelling like me.

Also, good point about the English thing, I figured someone will eventually point it out to me. But, I believe I had a very adequate grasp of English even before I came to America, since I learned English since I was seven (went to America at eight) and English is nowhere as hard as Chinese is.

And no, my friend does not cheat. And if he does cheat, he's a genius because cheating in a classroom of ten people and a teacher (back then there was few people in the advanced classes) means an epic cheating skill or a very good plan. That, or he purposely flunked the IQ test, which was highly unlikely because he's a very competitive person (he likes to show off).

I think he was very disappointed with his IQ score. :confused:
 

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I pity people who go to schools where IQ tests determine their class placement and where there are psychologists who use it as a tool for anything - they are useless :crazy:

I remember taking college entrance exam and I did very mediocre on one so I scheduled to retake it. But it was only two months to study in between and I was occupied with something else, so haven't even opened the textbook. Second time I got perfect score. Lucked in on guessing the multiple choice questions :laughing: I still remember people asking me like "whoa, you got perfect score, how did you do it?" "umm, randomly picked the right answers for third of questions I had no clue about and hit that 2-3% jackpot" lol

I think just taking classes everyone learns if you're good at maths or language or science or history or art. You don't need an IQ test for linguistic ability or anything like that to tell you that if you hate writing essays then you hate writing essays.
 

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But, I believe I had a very adequate grasp of English even before I came to America, since I learned English since I was seven (went to America at eight) and English is nowhere as hard as Chinese is.

And no, my friend does not cheat. And if he does cheat, he's a genius because cheating in a classroom of ten people and a teacher (back then there was few people in the advanced classes)
* were.

Clearly, even now, you still have a ways to go. :wink: (j/k) So eons ago, when you were only one year into learning English? Well, you get the idea.

Unless you're a linguistic genius (and I mean a prodigy, the kind featured on Oprah), you cannot go from 0 to fluent in any language in a year. Especially not English. The fundamental differences between it and Chinese (assuming traditional Mandarin) are so profound, it's like comparing apples to oranges. You literally had to learn everything from scratch.

Compare that to a Dutchman, whose native language has a very similar writing system, grammar, pronunciation, sentence structure, etc. Even they can't start from scratch and learn English fluently in just a year.

Most can't even get passably good in such a short time-frame.

I pity people who go to schools where IQ tests determine their class placement and where there are psychologists who use it as a tool for anything - they are useless :crazy:
Ugh. That happened to me - in fact, it's the very reason I even know my IQ.
 
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I've been kinda disturbed by the mass of people claiming that they are smart because of a stupid test score. Sure, if IQ could really determine how successful you could become, then I really do have no qualms. Thing is- it doesn't. A high IQ can actually undermine income, and I have the statistics to prove it.

(Half Sigma: High IQ may cause LOWER income)

Furthermore, how the fuck does a stupid test on vocabulary and patterns and math have anything to do with intelligence? The inconsistency of the test is so bad its hilarious. There was a time I got 93 on an IQ test in grade school, and I was assigned to an ESL class ( I was an asian immigrant). In middle school however, I had received a score of 125 and was assigned to a gifted class. How the FUCK can you rely on an IQ test that differs by a score of 30 points?

(Btw, I flunked the gifted glass, lol. I spent too much time playing maplestory and I sucked at math.)

We haven't even defined intelligence yet, and how to measure it. The way I see it, IQ can be improved by education. Come on? Math questions? With the proper knowledge, anyone can score well on an IQ test. Patterns? What the hell does that have to do with intelligence? Yeah, I see patterns. That so helped me to build a gun, put an end to the archaic period, and shoot people. Yeah, seeing patterns is sooo important.
Linguistic intelligence? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Good debating skills? Jokes? If that's the case, how the hell did I get a below average score in that if I won the debating competition last year?
(I seriously need a roll eyes or face-palm smiley right now)

And besides that, a 15 IQ score unreliability is a HUGE amount of points. Yeah, it's accurate in the range of 15 points. Yeah, accurate my ass.

So far, we have no correlation between income and IQ, and proven unreliability. What's next? It seems that the person with the highest IQ in the world go a simple geometric problem wrong (facepalm smiley here).

And it still hasn't explained how my friend, who does absolutely no work gets A's (he's pays attention though, while I go ADD) in a SUMMA program with no home-schooling flunked an IQ test. When questioned, the psychologist said that he probably worked harder than other students and I rolled my eyes so hard it hurt.

Yeah, if working hard means playing counterstrike for 10+ hours, he sure does work hard.

So far, I think that IQ is bullshit and a way to increased ego- and lower self-esteem (note: ego is an exaggerated version of self-esteem, while self-esteem is actually healthy)

Way to go, the-guy-who-created-this-fucking-system.
I couldn't agree more. Even if IQ tests were highly reliable, they measure such a small range of intelligence types that their results mean almost nothing. IQ test websites claim things such as that pattern recognition (not with real life information but with geometric shapes) is the "perhaps the essence of intelligence itself". It is one aspect of intelligence, yes. But is being able to predict the next figure in a series of squiggly lines a sufficient and necessary condition for being intelligent? No, not any more than being good at solving crossword puzzles or sudoku problems.
 

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I would say that "IQ" isn't bullshit, but what many people do with it is.
I like the tautologic sally attributed to Binet : "Intelligence is what my test measures"*, as the definition of intelligence is somehow simply the result of the way you measure it.
Used for what it was created in the first place (detecting mentally deficient people/particular intellectual problems) it is an appropriate tool amongst others.

As a scientific tool (imperfect, evolving, etc...) it is one of the best means to try to evaluate/define intelligence.
It is used in that case in a less personal way; if you want to compare the intelligence of 5000 paint-lickers to this of 5000 lead-drinkers, IQ is a effective tool.
If you want to compare yourself to your friend, I'm not saying IQ is useless, just that it is a result that most people can't handle.

Intelligence having so many dimensions, reducing it to a single number can seem totally dumb.
It is not.
What is, and that's what happens nearly every time, is to take the number "as is" and saying "101>99, I'm smart and you're dumb".
What it actually could mean is "101>99, and I have quite higher results than you in spatial intelligence, which means I have a statistically slightly higher probability than you to be better at using my spacial fonctions in reality, which gives me an an even more slightly probability to succeed in an area/job involving these functions."

But it requires to take time to try to know what one is talking about, isn't such an ego boost, makes less funny jokes, puzzles neurotics parents, doesn't sell so many books, doesn't make people vote for you.

When I studied the subject at university, a first step was to unlearn all the misconceptions nearly everyone has about it.
The researchers teaching us explained how their work is often misunderstood or deformed.

Intelligence is a very very touchy subject (like INTPs wouldn't know), every day moreso in such a competitive society.
It is an object of parental fantasies, political agenda.
It is often misused in the educational system, it seems particularly so in the U.S..

The study you linked seems to prove the validity of I.Q. as a scientific tool, as it actually seems correlated to income, simply in a not linear way.


*personal crappy translation.
 

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I would say that "IQ" isn't bullshit, but what many people do with it is.
I like the tautologic sally attributed to Binet : "Intelligence is what my test measures"*, as the definition of intelligence is somehow simply the result of the way you measure it.
Used for what it was created in the first place (detecting mentally deficient people/particular intellectual problems) it is an appropriate tool amongst others.

As a scientific tool (imperfect, evolving, etc...) it is one of the best means to try to evaluate/define intelligence.
It is used in that case in a less personal way; if you want to compare the intelligence of 5000 paint-lickers to this of 5000 lead-drinkers, IQ is a effective tool.
If you want to compare yourself to your friend, I'm not saying IQ is useless, just that it is a result that most people can't handle.

Intelligence having so many dimensions, reducing it to a single number can seem totally dumb.
It is not.
What is, and that's what happens nearly every time, is to take the number "as is" and saying "101>99, I'm smart and you're dumb".
What it actually could mean is "101>99, and I have quite higher results than you in spatial intelligence, which means I have a statistically slightly higher probability than you to be better at using my spacial fonctions in reality, which gives me an an even more slightly probability to succeed in an area/job involving these functions."

But it requires to take time to try to know what one is talking about, isn't such an ego boost, makes less funny jokes, puzzles neurotics parents, doesn't sell so much books, doesn't make people vote for you.

When I studied the subject at university, a first step was to unlearn all the misconceptions nearly everyone has about it.
The researchers teaching us explained how their work is often misunderstood or deformed.

Intelligence is a very very touchy subject (like INTPs wouldn't know), every day moreso in such a competitive society.
It is an object of parental fantasies, political agenda.
It is often misused in the educational system, it seems particularly so in the U.S..

The study you linked seems to prove the validity of I.Q. as a scientific tool, as it actually seems correlated to income, simply in a not linear way.


*personal crappy translation.
I feel really dumb in 99% of life, when Im alone and in my head everything makes sense perfect sense, the moment I step out into the world it all just stops from information overload. Iv taken IQ tests several times over the years and have have always scored in the 130s. WTF do you do with that?.
I live alone, eat alone, sleep alone, and when I can afford, I work alone. The moment other people are added to the equation it becomes too much and I stand and stare like a stale bottle of piss. I have struggled to find an occupation in which I can apply myself to satisfaction. The problem being is that because Im so constantly intriged by everything, im always in my head, cause Im always in my head, I lack social skills and find interactions overwhelming and debilitating=no progress.So unless Im wrapped up in my own little world the IQ stuff does not serve me well,it does little to stroke my ego, in reality for the best part leaves me feeling stupid as I feel I shoud be doing better/more based on what the results are supposed to tell me. Did I just ramble?
 

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I have to mention this. I went to a private high-school that used IQ tests for admission. I remember the people in "advanced" groups being mostly mediocre and a bunch of people in the "regular" class being very bright. Basically, those who were actually very intelligent didn't necessarily get into the advanced group while mediocre people (some of whom are now college drop outs) did.

I've always hated IQ tests (even though I was saved by one once :crazy: ). They are useless as a general measure of intelligence and very useless as a predictor of success.
 

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Perhaps, once a person is able to demonstrate that he can do a job with a minimum level of competence, social factors such as being liked by your boss are more important to getting a raise or promotion than performing at a level beyond minimum competence.
NO SHIT?! :shocked:

:dry:
 

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I've been kinda disturbed by the mass of people claiming that they are smart because of a stupid test score. Sure, if IQ could really determine how successful you could become, then I really do have no qualms. Thing is- it doesn't. A high IQ can actually undermine income, and I have the statistics to prove it.

(Half Sigma: High IQ may cause LOWER income)

Furthermore, how the fuck does a stupid test on vocabulary and patterns and math have anything to do with intelligence? The inconsistency of the test is so bad its hilarious. There was a time I got 93 on an IQ test in grade school, and I was assigned to an ESL class ( I was an asian immigrant). In middle school however, I had received a score of 125 and was assigned to a gifted class. How the FUCK can you rely on an IQ test that differs by a score of 30 points?

(Btw, I flunked the gifted glass, lol. I spent too much time playing maplestory and I sucked at math.)

We haven't even defined intelligence yet, and how to measure it. The way I see it, IQ can be improved by education. Come on? Math questions? With the proper knowledge, anyone can score well on an IQ test. Patterns? What the hell does that have to do with intelligence? Yeah, I see patterns. That so helped me to build a gun, put an end to the archaic period, and shoot people. Yeah, seeing patterns is sooo important.
Linguistic intelligence? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Good debating skills? Jokes? If that's the case, how the hell did I get a below average score in that if I won the debating competition last year?
(I seriously need a roll eyes or face-palm smiley right now)

And besides that, a 15 IQ score unreliability is a HUGE amount of points. Yeah, it's accurate in the range of 15 points. Yeah, accurate my ass.

So far, we have no correlation between income and IQ, and proven unreliability. What's next? It seems that the person with the highest IQ in the world go a simple geometric problem wrong (facepalm smiley here).

And it still hasn't explained how my friend, who does absolutely no work gets A's (he's pays attention though, while I go ADD) in a SUMMA program with no home-schooling flunked an IQ test. When questioned, the psychologist said that he probably worked harder than other students and I rolled my eyes so hard it hurt.

Yeah, if working hard means playing counterstrike for 10+ hours, he sure does work hard.

So far, I think that IQ is bullshit and a way to increased ego- and lower self-esteem (note: ego is an exaggerated version of self-esteem, while self-esteem is actually healthy)

Way to go, the-guy-who-created-this-fucking-system.
I have a theory on that:

The more intelligent people are more likely to choose degrees with little to no employability - languages, social science, sociology, philosophy, linguistics, anthropology, journalism, political science, arts and other humanities.
This results in them doing a job such as teaching and... well... nothing.
While a person with average intelligence will choose, say, business, vocational school or agriculture, manufacturing... etc. These occupations usually pay more than social sciences. Hell, even a plumber can earn more than a, say, teacher.

I would go as far as to say that intelligent people don't aim for the big bucks - they're interested in comfortable living where they can do whatever interests them.

There's also a follow-up
http://www.halfsigma.com/2006/06/high_iq_does_no.html
As with my analysis of the 1998 data, after degree, age, sex and region (residents of New England, Northeast, and Pacific regions have slightly higher incomes) are accounted for, the results show no benefit to having an above average verbal IQ. At least, unlike in my 1998 analysis, the highest verbal IQ bucket (WORDSUM=10) doesn’t correlate with a drop in income. As in the 1998 analysis, there is a noticeable negative effect from having a below average IQ, but this effect is not quite as large as the effect from being a high school dropout.
 

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I have a theory on that:

The more intelligent people are more likely to choose degrees with little to no employability - languages, social science, sociology, philosophy, linguistics, anthropology, journalism, political science, arts and other humanities.
This results in them doing a job such as teaching and... well... nothing.
While a person with average intelligence will choose, say, business, vocational school or agriculture, manufacturing... etc. These occupations usually pay more than social sciences. Hell, even a plumber can earn more than a, say, teacher.
I have a degree in applied psychology. Couldn't land a job for months. Now, I make peanuts working as a sub-editor... :dry:
 

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I don't really hate it, because it tells me I have a high IQ... :proud:

But, seriously though, it is flawed... especially considering they have to change it like every 7 years to make it harder. If our great-parents' generation took today's IQ test, on average, they would all test as "mentally retarded." I'm pretty sure most Americans weren't mentally retarded back then.... but, that's just a hunch.


I was an asian immigrant
I sucked at math.
Wait.. what? How is that possible? Lol.... I'm j/k, but how has nobody else made a joke about that yet....
 
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