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Is anyone else like this around Sensors?

3K views 29 replies 9 participants last post by  WraithOfNightmare 
#1 · (Edited)
I don’t know if any of my fellow NFs are like this, but it seems to me that whether I’m around ST types or SF types, the major differences in our cognition (S vs N) makes me behave in a very different and unnatural way than when I’m around N types (strong TJs are a bit challenging). What I mean by this is since I know that it will be more of an uphill struggle to communicate, I become extra desperate and a little pushy in putting my views forward and trying to make myself understood. I definitely notice that I become more “adversarial” whereas interacting with other N types, especially NF types, is generally calmer and smoother and where I just don’t feel the same sense of having to lay all my cards on the table at once.

This is old, yes I know, but how I personally experience the N / S divide, and again this has happened with both SFs and STs, is not only difficulty in communicating (beyond a more shallow / specific / limited sort of level), but it goes deeper than that.

In the past before I discovered this and even for a while after I discovered this, I really wanted to become like them and try to understand them. Many of them are just nice, ordinary people that aren’t “out to get us”, but no matter how hard I tried to let them know me better I often always felt a sense of rejection from them. It was usually along the lines of being called weird for my ideas and interests or just my general way of talking (despite the fact that fellow Ns usually think I’m very well-spoken). In this regard SFPs, even ESFPs, seemed slightly more accommodating than SFJs and STJs with STPs in the middle, but I could only get so far with them.

I have, on numerous occasions, tried to help them during times of need, only to be told “you just don’t understand” because they already saw me as “that weird person” in their contacts or social media. And no this is not specific to girls, but I was told more than once “you’re nicer than I thought but you’re just not what I need.” To be fair, handling practical, concrete matters that require objective reasoning and thinking, or commonly accepted “social skills” is not my strong suite at all. Maybe they saw it differently than I did (even SFs), but when I was trying to give some valuable insights out of what I felt / reasoned about the situation and being compassionate they never seemed to fully appreciate me because I haven’t personally / concretely experienced what they feel like they’re going through.

Rather than your typical “Intuitives rock, Sensors suck because Intuitives are rare and different” kind of thing, I often felt like Sensors of all kinds never took me seriously as an equal even when I really wanted to fit in and be like them. For a long time, and sometimes even now I constantly ask myself whether I’ll ever find love and happiness, I’m turning 25 in a weeks and don’t want to wait for too long. I want to be a dad and have my own kids but sometimes I ask whether I’ll become a good parent compared to the more typical SF and ST types. For many years when I was around them I often felt like time and everything that was happening just passed me by. I did and said things to get attention but just ended up making myself look worse to them, because I guess they could “intuitively” and instinctively figure out what I was doing.

I’ve become a lot more selective of the people I get close to as time goes by. People I used to talk to a lot more often when I was in a less emotionally stable period and battling some depression, now I have come to realize how little I actually have in common with them. I guess it’s what someone once told me, when I was 20-ish and he was 27, that by the time I reach his age I’ll have lost a lot of friends and people I thought were my friends. I guess that’s what has happened to me now but I don’t entirely regret it because I no longer go out of my way to be accepted for the sake of being accepted. I guess I’ve also become much more protective of my thoughts and my values.

However, all of this has made me hardened and more skeptical at times, which turns me into someone more pushy, even argumentative when once they really get to know me they will realize I’m actually not like that and hate conflict and arguments or even debates. S types outnumber us vastly and I have, for a while, questioned whether INFPs really make up 4% and whether ENFPs really make up 8%.

This reaction I’m describing is more likely to show up around SF types. Around ST types I’m more likely to freeze up, disengage and withdraw.

I haven’t met any ISFPs, but my experience with ESFPs is that initially I feel as though I’ve finally met someone that understands me for who I am, due to the shared Fi, but the further we know each other the more I realize they want to make the most of the world around them while I want to quietly sit back and live at my own pace. Their love language is very much gifts based while my love language is much more based on a deep understanding of each other. I used to chat to an ESFP girl as an acquaintance and she told me that if her boyfriend were like me in terms of the things he wanted to talk about, she’d feel insecure. Their “live in the moment” modus operandi often manifests as having, from my perspective, a worrying lack of insight, hindsight and foresight into their own actions even when it comes with very much tangible and difficult consequences.

This girl shopped her way into major debt and is unable to move to another country to be with her boyfriend, and one time she asked me how she can avoid it in the future. I flatly told her it’s not a matter of learning to avoid it, but that it’s about finding contentment from her inner world and not being preoccupied with image because it’s not like 99% of people really care anyway. Anyone can tell her what she wants to hear. That clearly didn’t go too well with her and she went back to taking out more loans to pay back her current ones.

An ESFP ex almost seemed like my soulmate, we could talk about almost everything, but I never felt safe with her as she really wanted to press her vision of an ideal life onto me. She was a realist at heart despite being fun-loving, and betrayed my trust numerous times by letting others know certain things about me that I thought we had implicitly agreed to keep it between ourselves. That got me into trouble and lots of questioning / ridicule on a couple of occasions.

ISFJs, even ESFJs, also give me the feeling of being understood and taken care of at first. However, my experience with them is that they are actually colder and more apprehensive (towards those who don’t match the societal / personal expectations they have learned, usually from others or existing systems) on the inside whereas I’m more the opposite. I have many strong views and won’t hesitate to distance myself from someone if I feel like my beliefs have been trampled on, but I often feel as though xSFJs do what they do more out of societal obligation or personal agendas more so than really wanting the world to become a better place with less suffering. They’re very much in tune with what the “mainstream” finds respectable, and I’m shocked by how harsh they can be once I get to know them more.

I have not met any female STPs, but I have met a number of STP guys. There’s not much to say about them except that I don’t have much in common with them and that they find my overly sensitive and incompetent. On a few occasions it almost felt like low-key bullying when I was giving my thoughts on things and they were like “how do you know? It seems like you know everything.” They’re very much physical people into things like sports, cars, drinking and sex. Not saying I’m not into any of those things but those things aren’t enough for me. STJs from my experience are, enough said, usually traditionalists and conservatives (not always in the ways I find admirable). I have come across extreme STJs with borderline Darwinist / Fascist views (STPs too), who look down on the less privileged (and yet none of them come from wealthy backgrounds), minorities (and yet many I know belong to minorities in Anglosphere countries) and just don’t believe in helping people out.

Other than that both STPs and STJs tend to be very dry in their conversations and really aren’t interested in much more than what’s going around them / immediately applicable. I’m Asian-Canadian myself and I’ve come across some very disturbing views from them on ethnic / racial minorities (usually Asians but not always) even if they weren’t directed against me. I currently live in China (MBTI wise I wouldn’t say it’s easier) since leaving Vancouver.

Another thing that I’m not sure all Sensors have, and to be fair I am pretty dumb at some things that are obvious to them, but I do feel as though they can be very oblivious and insensitive to things outside their immediate, daily life. I’m currently stuck in Taiwan (and have been for over a year) and unable to go home due to Covid. Yesterday when I saw the wife of one of my friends post pictures of her mom’s cooking on social media (which I pretty much just use to chat with a couple people), I said I really missed being home and wanted to go back by now. She (not sure what type she is but most likely xSFx like many girls are) said “oh just come back when you have time”followed by a sarcastic smiley. Maybe I’m reading into it too much but I felt like she simply didn’t understand what I’m going through (despite the fact that I’m sure my friend told her at some point). No it’s not that I “don’t have time”, I can’t go back even if I wanted to. She’s fairly nice and simple from what I’ve seen of her, but if she was not my friend’s wife I may well have felt like getting a little more argumentative over her crude and insensitive remark. It doesn’t take rocket science. One simple search online would have let her know what situation I’m in.

Sorry for this thread, I just really felt like letting it all out. I would really love to hear if any fellow NFs have had the same, similar, or different experiences as me whether now or some point in the past. If it sounds like yet another typical “us good, them bad” kind of thread, I admit on some days it really does feel that way because of past and current hurt and rejection even when I want to get to know them with the best of intentions. At the same time I feel like both types of Sensors are usually so much more adjusted, good at things I’m not, are so much happier and worldly intelligent than me. I wonder if my life would be any easier as one of them, though I know I have my own strengths too.

They just seem so confident, enjoying life and the world as it is while I feel like it’s hard to live in the present (despite saying people should) and feel as though so many things pass me by while I’m looking to feel secure and appreciated. I have even worried about having antisocial and psychopathic tendencies. I’m actually very shy when it comes to helping people out and don’t like to be seen / don’t want to be known, because that never feels right to me. I’m not hardcore religious anymore but I do believe that the Bible says we should help those in need when not in the sight of others. In Grade 11 I became super disillusioned with the whole education system and started questioning it. I only went to college under the persuasion of my older INFJ friend, and looking back it was a worthy experience but I really felt so upset with being told what to learn, how and when to learn it, and being in the rigid school structure. I’m skeptical of authority and rules.

Some online descriptions as well real life perceptions of INFPs and other NF types is borderline offensive to me. While SFJs are made out to be those “caring little angels that always make you feel nurtured and protected”, we’re often described as people who just “think about it” rather than doing the same thing an SFJ would do to show that we care. Yes I do live in my head a lot but I very much show I care through tangible gestures. I care not for giving or receiving gifts, my main way of showing love is forming a deep connection, but I very much do things to take care of loved ones. I might not always know how to respond to many “practical” situations in a timely and effective manner, but no I don’t just “think about it.” I’m also not someone who is controversial and loud in being different for the sake of it (though to some S types I am always that way no matter what I say or do). Nor do I believe in it. An ESFP or ISFP will beat me any day if they wanted to be creative and avant-garde. Many of the things I want are in fact, “normal” things, I’m not some other species. I just don’t believe that what I want to have by attaining those things is necessarily the same whether in ends or means.

So much of it is just tiring, especially when considering I’ve been given a ton of flak by none other than family members who are supposed to look after me (yet a number of them were oblivious to their own crap, battling issues with anger management and substance abuse).

Apologies in advance for such a long piece, I can’t help but get wordy lol. So many Sensors seem to act as though they have it all figured out (until they don’t), yet it’s just me who’s tired of calling them out for how short-sighted they really are. They just always see me as “irrational” and “immature” (I think “rationality” and “maturity” are overrated anyway, too often used as placebos by people who aren’t aware of their own subjectivity and lack of substance or soul) when they very much have, and still do make mistakes out of their own lack of insight or just foolishness.
 
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#2 ·
Another thing I want to mention is that there have been a couple of times where I had something I wouldn’t call an out of body experience, but more like a blank state in my mind where I try to imagine the world as if I didn’t exist. Like a partial sense of detachment from my surroundings and my physical body but nothing like a spiritual out of body experience. Has anyone else experienced something similar?
 
#3 · (Edited)
I can't describe it from NF's perspective as I consider myself being STJ but hoping it's okay and might give you some bit different perspective :) I'm explaining it from my own experiences thus it can't be generalized to any types or type groups (which would be pretty tough generalization anyway as people sharing same type could be pretty different from outside).

Initially I identified myself incorrectly for years and thought I'm pretty much more like NFP but actually I'm not - which made me see things bit differently when I finally realized it. Also I wouldn't be so sure that many who claim them being Ns, actually are - it wasn't so easy to distinct and most tests are heavily biased to result getting N type (happened to me as well).

In my opinion now this N vs S difference alone isn't THAT radically different worldview on it's own (we all use both anyway to operate) - perception is more about how we gather information not so much how to we use and judge it. To me it looks more difference is in F vs T worldview.

F and T seem to be pretty different "mental modes". For example, looks like when I start to sense that F in them (especially dom F) and our opinions don't match, it's like I don't know how to deal with it exactly and sometimes I need then to smoothen my expressions (although there's rarely anything personal attached). Maybe you sense smth similar in opposite way too while talking to stronger Ts? For example, I guess you might sense it like coldness or dryness and for me the opposite side looks I'd express the way they do only if I'm having some serious issues (thus became "irrational").

But most likely neither of the parties isn't actually doing what I explained above - it's more like STJ's mind is less dependent of emotions being involved for forming thoughts and making a decision. For example, when my (most likely) INFP friend was in some emotional trouble, it took a bit time for me to understand he's actually not looking for my "problem solver machine" mode but just needs listening :)

Tbh I personally don't believe in that any particular type has better or more interesting thoughts and creativity than others - it's easy to see everyone is capable of that when you look around - it's just different how we do that :) Also communication seems to be related more to your personal people skills, not that much tied to type - stereotypically I should be cold human robot, right, but I've often told to be one of the most open person, easygoing and easy to get along :)

Btw there's nothing wrong with your thread, I didn't see it as another story to complain N people are better than S :) Hoping that my thoughts would give you some different perspectives!
 
#8 ·
Initially I thought my type was ENFP and any source I read from, seemed to confirm it. It was Ne usage which convinced me and I never related to Si considering how it's usually explained.

But once I described one situation to my friend which I was somewhat unable to resolve over time, he pointed out I started to see my actual lead roles (Te +Si) as that issue was disturbance to my natural state of mind. Then a few people tested out I lack F style of thinking which confirmed it even more.

Then I put in a lot of effort to analyse how my lead roles actually play out in my mind and got proof after proof that I'm not ENFP. Talking directly to actual enfps proved it even more.

It looks like it's really difficult to conciously notice our leading cognitive roles unless you face an "error" conflicting them and you know exactly where to look, thus determining your actual type is a bit tricky :)
 
#5 · (Edited)
Sorry I don't know if this what you're looking for.

I have a small sample of good and bad relationships with Sensor types. I'd say the differences is on the communication style and information in-take, and our dynamic is worse or better based on their judging function (F or T). I like being around Se-Ni types (SPs) because of our same perceiving functions but the communication styles with SFPs and STPs are completely different. With STPs, I can follow the train of thoughts because of Ti-Fe, but with Se as dom, they come off more brash, impulsive, and "full force" with the external world as it is. ESTPs are more charismatic and friendly, but they're not known for their authenticity at the same time. It's a hit or miss. I only know 5 estps total and I'd say they are pretty good individuals...but I find their Fe intolerable at times. I am close to one of them, and she can be very diplomatic when it calls for but she is obnoxious when she's under stress. Her feelings are all over the place, not contained herself and very dramatic (I don't use it lightly as I've seen it in public and private moments). I prefer istps and have better connection with them as introverts and their Se is not overused like ESTPs. They are more rough around the edges, 'say what they mean' kind of folks but it comes with a price. They're not good at expressing feelings nor do they see the importance to care about it. Female ISTPs seem to have better grasp of it. It's interesting that I get along well with this type but there is a block in our friendship that we don't or can't go deeper? It's opposite with SFPs. We have more conflict but we can manage to pass it. Again, I'm just talking about individuals I know.

With SFPs, it's a hit or miss. I've known several folks over the years and our friendships never last with the exceptional of one. We had to grind through conflicts multiple of times before our friendship got better and we're at a place where we feel secure about one another. Conflicts is mostly communication and Fe/Fi stuff. They have this rebel sense to them that they will never let anyone take it from them. More like "stay in your own lane" kind of people... Under stress, imo, they are a lot more difficult and challenging than STPs. ESFPs are very direct and confrontational if needed. Like the ESTPs, they are very accepting of others, charismatic, communicative, and friendly. Having Fi (caring about their relationships with others) and Fe as their critic, it makes up for their ability to navigate social dynamics easier. I mean...that's the way I've seen it. I had an ESFP acquaintance said that sometimes she felt she has to entertained people because she felt it was the thing to do. That social pressure to do Fe stuff. With my friend, we can have deep discussion and we offer different perspective (Se/Ni) to help us understand ourselves more. It never last long but it's always respectful when we have this conversation. Just because our Se-Ni are complete opposite don't mean we don't get along.

With ISFPs, the only thing I’ve found annoying is their communication style and strongly attach to victimhood. Most people find this type to be very tolerable because they present themselves as chill and go with the flow, but I've learned there's more to that (thanks to my close relationship with my sister, ex-friend, and a few other ISFP acquaintances). Se-Ni makes them more stubborn in their actual vision, and Fi hang on to that truth so it makes them narrow-minded in their perspective of others (polr Ne as well). In my experience ISFPs are poor communicators (with exceptions) and have poor conflict management, and frankly, I consider their behaviors toxic to a degree. It leads to passive aggressive communication (a way for them to looks self-sacrificing and generous, but it has never worked in the long run), shutting down, avoiding responsibility, denial/blaming others, and ghosting. My ex-friend knew that I knew she struggles with communication and used that against me. When I told my sister that my ex-friend ghosts people she was taken back and found it disturbing. She knows she get PA but ghosting is something she won’t do and she’ll try to communicate first. So if you don't try or put the effort to grow, I will address and leave because I have no reason to stay in a friendship like this and there's no reason to justify your behaviors. The ones I’ve dealt with have low relationship skills, and I think it may explains why they often struggles with relationship but they’re fine letting go of that person at the same time. I'm sure there are exceptional but it's very common experience for me.

I have a lot of experiences with Si and I do know more female xSFJs than STJs, but I'm not that close to them. With ESFJs, my boss and a few colleagues are ESFJs and they're very attune to social and emotional environment. I like them that they are people-intuitive but sometimes they are very concern about the dynamic and put a lot of effort to maintain harmony. It's okay to have negative emotions and let people experience it.

*edit
 
#6 · (Edited)
I have experienced exactly what you are describing many times, but I don't remember all the types of the individuals with whom I felt that way. Many of them, I believe, were enneagram sixes (I'm a 4). Some were types very different from me, such as ISTP; but some were also similar to me, such as ENFP.

But with many sensors, I simply find it necessary to translate my abstract thoughts into concrete words and analogies for them to understand. If I don’t, some just write me off as intentionally being vague.

ISFPs aren't my cup of tea. I've known many, and have tried to bond with them over our Fi. I've seen many other INFPs call them kindred spirits, soulmates - but I've never felt that kind of deep connection with them, though the shared Fi can breed a lot of emotional intensity. Their Se doesn't make sense to me and can even be hurtful. I can connect better with some ESFPs, but they have more difficulty understanding me.

Generally, I don't get along with ISTPs and ESTPs beyond casual interaction. They often have a great number of physical aptitudes, but beyond mutual awe we don't relate to or understand one another. I can't stand simply being in close proximity to unhealthy ones - their Se is overwhelming.

The sensors I connect with most are Si users who are subdued in their Te or Fe expression. These are some of my favorite types, not only among sensors, but across the board. My best friend of many years was a reserved ISTJ who understood my mind possibly better than any other friend I have had since (including ENFP and many NJ friends). I could talk about anything in depth with her; she was one of the most open-minded people I've ever met. My father is ISTJ as well and also possesses this quality at times. However, several of my other relatives are Si users (ESFJ, ESTJ, and ISTJ) who emphasize their Te/Fe and I have trouble getting through to them. They are more rigid, intolerant, and have a greater drive to control others which sends me into fight-or-flight mode.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Okay I feel a little better right now so I’m going to say a bit more. With regards to the responses above, I have definitely noticed how my relationships with SFs, even ESFPs that also use the Fi-Te axis, is often a case of diminishing interest over time. I don’t think I’ve met any ISFPs, maybe I have but haven’t noticed them.

As I read on Reddit a while ago (that post was with regards to INFP-ESFP), it does seem to me as though my connection with SF types is best when I or both them and I are at a point of stress and emotional vulnerability. NFs are already very sensitive and often vulnerable types, but in times of extra stress I can totally see how the cheerfulness and “in the moment” optimism of an ESFP (while sharing Fi so I may well share a number of similar views as them / use the same processes), or the Fe of an ISFJ or ESFJ being a great source of comfort.

However, once the NF (INFP in my case) starts to recover and enters a better state of mind, that’s when they start to realize how different the SF types that they thought they could lean on and confide in are, in reality, people who believe and are driven by very different things. Once the NF feels better and starts seeing the big picture again, from there on it’s often a process of gradually feeling not understood by the SF and becoming increasingly frustrated by the SF’s lack of ability to appreciate the NF’s depth and concern for greater things that the SF sees as unrealistic or irrelevant. Now keep shutting down the NF over and over again, the NF will eventually become hurt and dissatisfied and start to distance themselves from the SF type. I can see how even an INFJ or ENFJ with strong Fe would realize that there is a disconnect with Sensing Feelers even though they may well try their best to stick it out and continue to understand the SF and cater to the SF’s needs.

Despite the initial compassion and emotional connection I find that I end up feeling lonely with SF types because there’s only so much of myself that I can share with them. They either don’t understand or don’t care. Fe in an xSFJ can manifest VERY differently than Fe in an xNFJ. Judging from my experience with a long-time ENFJ friend, his Fe manifests as an appreciation of universal emotion and compassion while trying to deeply understand the world and its people. It’s Fe but a very seeking, inquisitive type of Fe. On the other hand, Fe in an xSFJ, from my experience, and I’m sorry this sounds harsh, but it’s a lot more about “falling in line” and maintaining the status quo because it’s what they’re “supposed to do.” ISFJ is a little more passive-aggressive when they feel you don’t fall in line with their very much subjective (though they won’t admit it) idea of what you’re “supposed” to be, while an ESFJ, even if not completely unhealthy, will call you out on it one way or another.

ESFPs seem like kindred spirits to me at first, but they’re fundamentally very different people. Even if they do bond with me over the shared Fi and we agree on things from time to time, they are more than happy with the world as it is and really prefer to live in the moment / not get caught up on bigger questions. I sometimes envy their ability to actually live in the moment while I just say that’s what I should be doing more of, but it’s that dominant Se which really gets on my nerves the longer I engage with them. Their preoccupation with image, outward appearance, with being popular and looked up to by others often leads them down a self-destructive path which, with some of the ones in my life, I’ve tried to warn them but they clearly didn’t want to listen.

The girl who shopped her way into debt once asked me how to manage her money better. I told her straight up that it’s not an issue of “managing her money”, but that it was an issue of character, namely the fact that she needed to find more inner satisfaction instead of focusing on her outward image and hoping people would praise her for it. Last I saw she was taking on more loans to pay off her existing debts. I also have an ex that I strongly suspect was ESFP, she understood my Fi and I understood hers, but she was fundamentally a realistic and cynical person that didn’t feel much angst when she had to do what the system demanded from her. Apart from her emotional instabilities and different lifestyle aspirations that never made me feel fully secure with her, on multiple occasions she ended up telling others what I believed I could confide in her. And on those occasions I suffered repercussions. She was fun, enjoyed life, well traveled and knew where the best restaurants and places were, very intelligent but I never felt secure enough to commit to her due to the aforementioned traits. We had known each other since we were kids but didn’t always live close to each other.

Many ESFPs have a love language that’s quite foreign to me. They see the exchanging of gifts and things as a big part of feeling loved while for me I could really care less if there’s a deep all-round connection. Sure it’s nice if someone put thought into gifting me something but it’s not and never will be my basis for judging what grounds the relationship is on. Not ESFPs. They keep score.

What has almost shocked me on a few occasions is how calculating and cynical xSFJs, even ISFJs actually are, despite always seeming so nice and willing to lend you an ear. Deep down I feel as though despite the fact that they can be perfectly kind and helpful people, they are not people who want to fundamentally change the system in order to solve its problems, rather they are people who more than willingly learn and play by the rules of the system and try to maximize their gains in it. Not necessarily saying this regarding money or prestige, but what I’m getting to is that they will often be dismissive towards what they see as impossible (or is it?) in the near future and that can include throwing an NF’s idealism and hope out the window by refusing to discuss it altogether. That makes me feel especially discouraged because even though I wish I was in a position to really make more of an impact, it doesn’t stop me from wanting to discuss it, to wish and dream, to do what little I can and to resist on the inside. Sometimes when I go a long way for someone I get criticized by SFs for being “weird” because it’s almost like they have a hard time comprehending how someone can be genuinely so giving and compassionate even though they (especially ESFJs) are usually the first ones that come to mind when people think of holy Madonnas and “people’s people.”. That’s just the surface. Deep down they’re inherently cynical, pragmatic, even a little selfish. At least that’s how I see it.

This is more of a pet peeve of mine when dealing with them than an inherent character issue, but when they go and on and on about their day and little details it annoys me just as much as I’m sure how they see me when I talk about all the “could be” stuff. And I’m sure how both xSFPs and xSFJs can easily see me as being insensitive to their needs as well even when I am sincerely trying my best. xSFPs might see me as someone who doesn’t appreciate their zest for living life and enjoying the world as it is, for their need to constantly do things, they might see me as too much of a dreamer and Debbie Downer while xSFJs might see me as someone who’s oblivious to all the social protocols and what’s expected of me by wider society, of not knowing how to get along with everyone and just being a loner and a loser. Both xSFPs and xSFJs always end up thinking that I care too much about the irrelevant and that I always try to see / wonder about what’s not there / what’s not tangible and immediately relevant, that is, until it affects them.

How would THEY cope if one day they were in the minority and often found themselves misunderstood? I’m more or less used to it although it hurts at times. I’m not sure if they’d handle it as well, because they have less of a mental space and inner life to retreat to.

Over longer periods of time I really do feel as though even when discussing the exact same topic, even when discussing mundane everyday stuff, xNFJs that use Fe rather than Fi have much smoother interactions with me than xSFPs (which share Fi, and in this case I’m referring to ESFPs) and xSFJs. I always find it a bit lacking with the SF types past the initial stage. Unless an SF type is more experienced and has gone out of their way to develop their Ne or Ni, I’ll have trouble with them. And unfortunately because SF is such a prevalent type in our society especially among the female sex, they may well never have to while an INFP constantly has to go out of our comfort zone and decipher their language, to “feel” as we’re “supposed to.”

Just too much mutual misunderstanding and eventually resentment with these fellow Feeling types.
 
#10 · (Edited)
It’s a bit sad to me at times because I think about how they experience the world from their perspective, how many things are so much simpler, how they may well be asking a lot less from people and from the world around them and don’t always try to be so preoccupied with what’s wrong even if they can see it. I can’t satisfy their needs just like how I feel they can’t fully satisfy mine. We’re both Feelers and I often find them a relief from strong T types (which I’m sure at least some are NTs), but once we get to know each other that’s when I start to realize we often don’t feel the same about things / don’t feel using the same way. Even when I open up myself to them they can only get so much of me. It could be a very intense feeling that I constantly ruminate about, that I process several times over, and they just don’t seem able to fully grasp it.

Back in the day I felt my ESFP aunt was the relative that understood me the most, and I had some fun times with her, but looking back, now that I’ve grown a bit I finally see that we’re very much cut from different cloths and yes she has said and done things that made me feel really hurt and misunderstood out of consideration for social protocol and her own image. Even back when I saw her more often there were times where she simply couldn’t understand why I was lost in thought and unhappy all the time. Those were indeed some unhappy times for me and I’m feeling a bit better since, nowadays we’re on friendly terms but I hold back from sharing more of myself with her. She’s fun, bubbly (Capricorn but got lots of Sagittarius and Libra in her chart), likes taking photos and doing what a lot of girls these days do, when pissed, frightening temper even towards her son (my cousin).

There were times where she took the other side against me despite knowing how the other person made me feel. When I was being unfairly berated by them she joined in! I’m not sure if this is an “ESFP” thing but from my point of view the least she could have done was keep her mouth shut if she didn’t want to seem like she was taking my side. I think she saw me (probably still sees me) as her nephew that said some “interesting” stuff from time to time, but ultimately a one-note kind of person that’s quirky and weird. And that’s okay.

I really wish the SFs in my life can find happiness on their own terms and it still makes me feel sad when life doesn’t go their way. I’m just starting to maintain a little distance when it comes to how far I’m willing to go for them because I don’t want to be seen as someone that tells them useless things while not offering any immediate solutions to their problems. Frankly, I usually don’t have the immediate and practical solutions they require. So they ask me why I’m even bothering.

If I keep going, it can become emotional trench warfare where we both stop becoming appreciative of each other and from there the connection starts to fade.

SFs do think about deeper and more existential issues as well, and sometimes do give some surprisingly acute insights, but I can tell it’s not the “norm” for them and that they expend rather than gain energy from doing so. Usually their Ni or Ne shows itself when they’re tired or feeling down and it’s not a function that they use very frequently and liberally to understand people, they themselves, and what’s happening around them. That’s when they’re most likely to be on a similar frequency as me and probably find me refreshing to talk to in the context of that particular period they’re going through. And I usually mistake that for what they are most or all the time rather than a phase where they’re feeling down, not realizing that once they are back to their normal selves they’re nothing like what I originally thought they were.

The pain is mine alone, having thought that I found someone who shared a lot with me, but I guess that’s just part of life. In response to my experiences I’ve learned to look much more heavily for deeper motives and psychological makeup rather than outward behavior, to see what they’re like / what they’re interested in during better times.

I once heard someone’s claim that many people, when hurt or depressed, can show partial or even strong NF traits. Unfortunately for me (yet fortunate in other ways) it’s what I carry with me and not something I can just turn off at will.

If you know the whole “oh look at these 12-year olds trying to be philosophical” thing, I’m not sure about my fellow NFs but it seems to me that I am perpetually that “12-year old” to even the more understanding and gentle SFs I’ve come across as soon as I open my mouth and try to share more of myself with them. And no it’s not entirely their idea of “childlike innocence” either but rather an “obnoxious and angsty teenage PITA” kind of thing where they see it as me thinking I have it “all figured out” (trust me, I’m constantly trying to “figure it out”- in their words).

It seems as though getting along with SF types deserves to be its own discipline. I’m always seen as the “difficult” and “illogical” one when I’m just trying to make myself heard, yet I can see their short-sightedness and poor understanding way too easily, I just don’t want to argue all the time.

And yes as much as I don’t like to admit it, perhaps from their perspective they’re also making painful concessions just to be able to tolerate us and be with us. As a poster in another one of my threads put it, INFPs aren’t exactly the go to gurus when it comes to finding a life satisfaction teacher. From their perspective even when they’re happy as a clam we’re the angelfish that keep wanting to pick at them (for those of you saltwater hobbyists out there).
 
#11 ·
Well it may be because you like to complicate yourself when Sensors like it to be clear and simple what can be kept clear and simple. Too much drama from INFP, from there and all the misunderstandings. INFP find reasons for everything not to work or not to be happy.

Live the moment and enjoy what it is, not what you read in I don't know what book it would be beautiful to be and you will never have any communication problems with any Sensor again.
When you're told something, that's the message. Do not look for other hidden meanings, as most of the time they do not exist. A Sensor is by no means inferior to an Intuitive. A Sensor is just an Intuitive minus bullshitery. Now it's up to what your interests are.

When you hear that you danced beautifully, that means: you danced beautifully. That's it. No hidden messages, interpretations or anything. It's a waste of energy to interpret something very clearly. Hence all the misunderstandings.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Thanks for responding and I appreciate it. I think a lot of times it’s not that I always look for hidden messages in the specific examples you mentioned, but rather looking for deeper motivations and deeper existential problems in the other person.

To give an example of this, say an ESFP or another S type is telling me that they’re feeling sad or a bit down or going through a difficult time. When they tell me what they’re going through I assume a general dissatisfaction with world, with life and that they’re ready to go somewhere “deeper.” I take it as them going through an existential crisis of some sorts, I almost automatically assume that and then start to share many of my own ideas and my own experiences while not knowing what their mental process is actually like / what’s really going on inside them. Perhaps that’s also what you were pointing to? When you guys are going through such periods, is it usually more of a temporary thing that only requires you to relax a little and then you get back to enjoying life as it is, or is it more of a period where you do indeed start to doubt many things and look for more meanings that aren’t immediately clear?

And in these times if you are comfortable enough to talk to someone else about it, what are you really looking for?

About the different interests part, it’s true that I am pretty geeky when it comes to stuff and that I do have some less common / even unusual interests that most people haven’t really looked into. However, a lot of times I just really like to connect with someone else by sharing many of my thoughts. Perhaps it’s just a lack of interest in my kind of conversation based bonding on your end? If that’s indeed the case, what do you guys like to talk about with each other? What do you think of the “depth” of understanding that many Intuitives (not specifically INFPs or NFs) are known for? Do you find it particularly interesting like we’re often believed to be? (What makes you guys think that we have a lot of “bullshit”, as you put it….)

Regarding living in the moment, perhaps I am not really understanding what it means though like I said it’s hard for me to just “de-Intuit.” For example when I am seeing a piece of history (I am a big history buff), I tend to extrapolate a lot and my mind goes wandering off:
1. Why did they build this?
2. What was it like back in the day? (I start drawing a picture in my mind)
3. What was life like for the people back in those days?
4. What did they feel and what were their values? How were their values similar to or different from mine?
5. How would I feel if I lived in those times?
6. What was their language / what were their customs?

When I view a piece of history or artwork and I cannot paint that mental picture, it’s very hard for me to enjoy it. Same goes with reading a book. I find it very hard to appreciate the text unless I can paint a picture inside my head. This might be more Fi than N / S but if it’s related to a character’s emotional or mental process I use my own to compare.

Even when I say “live in the moment”, I guess a lot of times what I really mean is “extrapolating from the moment” and seeing what greater findings I could come up with. And yeah a lot of times I’m still thinking about something else / the future or the past.

Sorry for so many questions haha, hope none of this offends you. Just would really like to know your perspective.
 
#13 ·
I don't think about that hard when I'm around sensors.
I like to cook and I like to paint, so I generally prepare myself to talk about food, and sometimes about art.
Idk if it's a cultural or universal thing, but most of the sensors I've known can spend all day talking about food.
 
#14 ·
I see, so it still makes mental adjustment for you I guess. Do you find it exhausting when you have to do it all the time? I really love food and do talk about it a fair bit, but eventually I will want to move onto more stuff. I like art too though not an artist. Modern / avant-garde stuff is mostly not my thing unless it personally resonates with me.
 
#15 · (Edited)
In the past my experience with S types when I wanted to hang out with them was that when they came over I could clearly tell they were very bored and a little unhappy despite me wanting to talk to them and get to know more about them. Some would flat out refuse to see me unless I had already planned something in mind, of course it had to be something they were into. It was very hard with them to just go out for a walk in the park, explore the city we were in, go to a new restaurant or just anything and while we were in the middle of it we just talked about whatever. Eventually I sort of got the gist of it and I guess they were also bored of it because from their perspective they probably thought I was boring and just wanted to ask them questions about stuff all the time.

I can totally have a good time doing the same things, or trying something new with an N but I feel like it’s much more spontaneous and I don’t feel pressured to have to constantly find something to stimulate them physically and tangibly. We just roll along and enjoy whatever we’re doing but also talk about a lot more stuff.

It took a long time for me to realize about myself that my primary mode of getting to know someone wasn’t very activity based but rather it was sharing values and beliefs. I can have a good day out with someone but at the end of the day if I feel like I don’t know them well and they don’t know me well as a person, if we don’t click on that level, it would be very hard for whatever kind of relationship to progress. What I really want to know is who they are, why they are that way, what they’re motivated by, and what they want in their life and in the world.

Sometimes I burst out laughing because I just made another connection between two seemingly unrelated things in my mind, and that totally weirds them out lol. Another thing that sometimes surprises them (and other Ns too) is that they usually see me as someone who’s very conservative and held back and just your everyday nerd, that is, until I surprise them with my word play and (intellectually) wilder side.
 
#16 ·
I see where you're coming from.

I have to go the extra mile to make sure that I'm speaking really clearly with my ESFP friend, and that I have laid down everything. One of them has a tendency to overthink everything I said, so everytime I make a statement that might be taken the wrong way, I'll have to say things like:

"I'd just want to let you know beforehand that I didn't mean this.. Or that... My intentions are... Just that.... And due to tendencies of people of taking this the wrong way, I want to make it clear that this time around it's different.. Also, take note that this can be taken either as an offense or advise, but at the end of the day, what you make/get out of it is up to your own perspective.. I'm not in any way saying that you're lacking something and thus need some advice, but everybody always have rooms for improvements, don't they? Also.... Blablabla" All those in one go just to say one sentence. Phew. No wonder I always feel thirsty whenever I speak with her.

But again, as I'm sure I've told you before, I didn't see this as an inconvenience. In fact, it taught me how to speak with clarity. I happen to be a programmer too, and I know how important it is to cover all the possibilities when writing codes. 😅

Of course, if I have the choice, I'll avoid this way of communication as it is unnecessarily complicated.

In the past my experience with S types when I wanted to hang out with them was that when they came over I could clearly tell they were very bored and a little unhappy despite me wanting to talk to them and get to know more about them. Some would flat out refuse to see me unless I had already planned something in mind, of course it had to be something they were into.
I'm not sure if this is an N vs S thing. I don't have enough information, but I'm guessing that it's just them. The setting is indoors, at home isn't it? Maybe they don't feel stimulated, and prefer to go outdoors to do something fun.

I do notice that sometimes when I have friends over, their energy level just drops real fast, and they'll usually start playing with their phones after about 10-15 mins. Most of them happen to be S types, but correlation isn't causation.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I appreciate the honesty and rawness in what you have written here. It sounds like you are still coming to grips with the differences between the dynamic you thought you had with certain SF individuals versus what you actually had. I know, as a fellow INFP, SFs have a unique way of permeating our hearts, and it’s difficult when the individual in question is either unhealthy or not interested in seeing a different point of view. But I want to reassure you, there ARE SFs out there who genuinely aren’t like this.

I grew up with an ESFJ grandmother who, while being a loving provider for me, contributed to many of my issues today. She never thought the person I was was of any value, because who I was didn’t match up to who she was, who he was, who the person over there was, or they were: and who these people were was the “right way“ to be.

I also have an ESFJ best friend, who is one of the sweetest, most genuine individuals I’ve ever met, and has accepted some of the best and worst about me without her love for who I am ever changing. Her sense of humor can be sharp at times, but she can be counted on in the face of crisis and will never leave the side of someone who needs her. We enjoy each other’s company and can converse for ages without getting bored.

This is just one example, but my favorite of how things can go right with sensing individuals. Don’t lose hope based on your own experiences. Know that what you have to offer will be accepted and appreciated by the right person.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I think you should look into socionics since it explains the dynamic between infp and esfp much better than mbti. Infps are se-polr after all. My impression from reading your posts is that you're reading into their actions and behaviors. ESFP are direct in their interaction with the world and feels "empty" to NFs type. In my experience with my INFP friends, they talk about finding meaning in their life (relationships, objects, paths, etc) so it could be a reason why the connection with ESFP may fall flat. There is an mutual ESFP friend that my INFP friends and I know, and my relationship with her only exists but that's it. We don't have deep connection and overtime I find her obnoxious. Not the "oh look at me I'm the life of the party" but other factors that contribute to it. The INFPs have a longer relationship to her so they are aware of this and have tolerated longer than I did. One of them still have a decent connection while the other INFP decided to cut it off during pandemic. She explained to me that it's mostly her Se that rubbed her the wrong way so she's not putting effort to keep the communication open. What I heard is Se is forceful and appears more aggression/domination in her eyes and removed herself.
 
#19 ·
Been binge watching the Euros so very late nights due to the time difference, now they’ve just decided all the Round of 16 matches so gonna have 2 days to catch up on some sleep lol.

@Ewok City Hey thanks for commenting on my thread. :) And thanks for following me. Really appreciate it when you take the time to see my content. :) You’re a programmer? 😄 I can imagine that to be a pretty unusual and somewhat difficult field for an INFP haha. Dealing with systems all day would drive me insane lol. So kudos to you for managing it haha. I can imagine that kind of communication would be frustrating to me if I have to explain everything. But wait, it’s a her? Haha.


@Miranda Mayhem Thanks for commenting on my thread and I appreciate it. I’m sorry to hear about your experiences with your grandmother. You don’t have to but if you feel comfortable doing so it would be helpful to find out about what exactly made her so hard to get along with / what were some of the things she did. I am, however, happy to know that you do great with your ESFJ friend. When you spend time with your friend, do you find that conversations have to be steered into a different direction than when you’re with another NF or N type? What are the things that she enjoys and what are the similarities and differences in how you two view the world and view life?

Thanks for the encouragement, it makes me glad. Perhaps one of the reasons I have come across a seemingly disproportionate number of unhealthy sensing types is their sheer numbers, and how this system while built around their needs and preferences, can amplify both their good and bad qualities. Still, it’s so hard going about daily life not being appreciated and understood by the vast majority of people who just find me weird. Perhaps for sensing types it gets better with age? (Not all of them)


@iblameyou I don’t know all the details but from what I know about INFP-ESFP in socionics the ESFP is like the “supervisor” of the INFP and will often end up overwhelming the INFP with its Se and extremely realistic approach to life. The way you described your INFP friends describes me to a tee, as that is exactly what it takes for me to develop a deeper connection with someone. Perhaps that’s just not the way ESFPs get closer to people? If true, how do ESFPs connect differently than INFPs? My experience with the dominant Se of ESFPs is that even if they’re not overly forceful and aggressive, they can come across as quite insensitive and make me feel as though they don’t really know me and just see what I display to them at that moment. And that can make me feel hurt or a little insulted at times. Also with the example I gave of that ESFP girl who shopped herself into big debt, I kept trying to psychoanalyze her motives, looking into possible unresolved childhood issues, parental neglect, possible issues with self-esteem, bad influences from other people and so on. That was when I still wanted to help her and felt a bit bad for her. Do you think, in that case, I was reading and looking too much into her actions, that being the direct and upfront and present people they are ESFPs can simply just enjoy stuff and not always think of their internal condition, not the type to deeply reflect and just want to enjoy stuff as it is?
 
#20 ·
@Ewok City Hey thanks for commenting on my thread. :) And thanks for following me. Really appreciate it when you take the time to see my content. :) You’re a programmer? 😄 I can imagine that to be a pretty unusual and somewhat difficult field for an INFP haha. Dealing with systems all day would drive me insane lol. So kudos to you for managing it haha.
No problem! I enjoyed our conversation, that's why I followed you. :D

Programming / Computer Science definitely isn't the first thing that a typical INFP would think of doing. But you'd be surprised at the amount of xNFPs that actually excel in this field! Even in this forum alone, I've spotted quite a few who has been in the field for quite some time.

I feel like after being immersed in Fi-Ne for a long time, you kind of get sick of it, and want something new. It's as if your Si-Te has been waiting for their turn to come out. And once you allow them to, it feels really satisfying.

One of my professor who happens to be a head of a research group is also an INFP. I enjoyed conversing with him about various stuff. I also love how passionate ENFP lecturers are.

But I do admit facing troubles at advanced concepts sometimes. Some of my really bright classmates seems to be able to get it in one go, while I need to let my subconscious mind process it for a while. 😵 But I don't see this as a disadvantage, for me it's the end result that matters.

Really appreciate it when you take the time to see my content.
Well no need to thank me. Thank YOU, for taking the time to reply! :D
 
#21 ·
This is all fascinating to me. My partner is an INFP. Almost all of the differences mentioned here are some of the biggest reasons I'm drawn to her. I really love that I can't wrap my head around her. One of the songs I often sing to her is John Legend's all of me. I don't mind that she doesn't make sense to me, or that she can't make sense of my actions. I wouldn't have nearly as much fun teasing her if she was someone who "gets" me. And I certainly wouldn't have nearly as much fun listening to her talk about her latest fanfiction or fairy tale with unreal amounts of detail and enthusiasm if I was someone who "gets" her.

Something is not right with you and your friends. Maybe you lack the ability to take others on a journey with you? Or maybe they lack it? Or maybe you're not open minded enough to step outside of your comfort zone? Or maybe they're not open minded enough? Or maybe I'm wrong and you genuinely don't like each other's way of living. I don't know what is it, but something isn't right. I've yet to meet an INFP who was boring. Nervous for no reason? Yes. Weird? Definitely. Boring? Never.
 
#22 ·
All good! Haha. It’s interesting that there are other INFPs in fields similar to yours. How do they handle it? Do they get very stressed easily? Do you think they’re at their most genuine, pure INFP selves or do you think in your field as an INFP it takes a lot of conscious Te even at the cost of Fi?

This world really wasn’t meant for us in so many ways…..
 
#24 ·
How do they handle it?
They handle it pretty well, it's just like a normal job for them. I find that it's not so much about N vs S or T vs F, but it's more about having introverted traits: being able to sit down and think about something for a long time, patience when facing problems, etc.

Important thing to also take note is that Computer Science is not all about programming. There are many other aspects of it that the extroverts will excel at. For example, managerial positions might be a field where ENFPs can be good at.

Do you think they’re at their most genuine, pure INFP selves or do you think in your field as an INFP it takes a lot of conscious Te even at the cost of Fi?
Well, they're pretty much natural at it!

In fact, INFPs who insist on staying in their comfort zones are the ones who I find to be susceptible to depression and negative thoughts. I hope no one would take offense to this, but I do notice that INFPs in arts are the most depressed people. I'm sure you're aware of how much famous musicians committed suicide at young age.

While INFPs in STEM? They're living the best life ever! The ones I know are always energetic. Although once in a while, INFPs do have a tendency to feel lost, and question themselves whether they're taking the right direction. But that doesn't have anything to do with their profession. They can feel the same way regardless of their profession.

This world really wasn’t meant for us in so many ways…..
I agree that our world operates mostly in xSTJ ways. But it's exactly because of that, that we're able to bring something new to the table, don't you think so? :)

All we need is simply to learn the xSTJ language. After we're fluent at it, the world is basically our playground, symbolically. And good news is, it's lying there just below our Fi-Ne. It's a natural progression.
 
#23 ·
I apologize if this rubbed you the wrong way, I was being quite bitter and critical in my previous posts (Covid really isn’t helping) but this was not directed against you or anyone else in specific over here. I am very happy that you and your partner love each other and appreciate each other to the fullest. With regards to “taking others on a journey with me”, if that means a journey through many of my thoughts, interests and how I feel about things then they’re going to be in for quite a ride. However, if it means a journey in terms of physical experiences or just having a good time then yeah I admit I’m not the most outwardly interesting person at first glance. Now that you’ve mentioned this I gotta say sometimes I really do wish, and envy your ability to be so much more outwardly engaged, outwardly fun, engaging and appealing. I do feel as if there are times in which life passes me by and I have a hard time completely being “out there.” Maybe your INFP feels the same way and can relate. What do you mean by “stepping out of our comfort zone” with regards to the ESFP-INFP relationship? I would love it if you can give some more details on that.

Maybe culture has something to do with it as well? I am Chinese by ethnicity so most of my life I’ve been around East Asian culture, which due to Confucian beliefs, places (unfortunately) a lot of emphasis on your outward image, appearance, social status and accomplishments etc. I hate these aspects of Confucianism. American / Anglosphere culture a lot of times is also like that too, Canada being so similar to the US.

I’m a guy who’s looking to get married in the next couple of years, and my past experience with my ESFP ex and female ESFP acquaintances (looking back they weren’t really close friends) has been that they can be a little hard to please, the Se can be very demanding. I like having a good time, I love many “sensory” (not all) experiences too but maybe in smaller doses, I’m not very much a party or social gathering kind of person but food is perhaps my biggest weakness. I also love art (not modern unless I can see the message behind it), music, nature and history. However I still live in my mind a lot and wish the world was different in so many ways.

If you want to share, what are the deep thoughts and fantasies that surprised you the most from your INFP girl?
 
#28 ·
I apologize if this rubbed you the wrong way, I was being quite bitter and critical in my previous posts (Covid really isn’t helping) but this was not directed against you or anyone else in specific over here. I am very happy that you and your partner love each other and appreciate each other to the fullest. With regards to “taking others on a journey with me”, if that means a journey through many of my thoughts, interests and how I feel about things then they’re going to be in for quite a ride. However, if it means a journey in terms of physical experiences or just having a good time then yeah I admit I’m not the most outwardly interesting person at first glance. Now that you’ve mentioned this I gotta say sometimes I really do wish, and envy your ability to be so much more outwardly engaged, outwardly fun, engaging and appealing. I do feel as if there are times in which life passes me by and I have a hard time completely being “out there.” Maybe your INFP feels the same way and can relate. What do you mean by “stepping out of our comfort zone” with regards to the ESFP-INFP relationship? I would love it if you can give some more details on that.
It's ok. You were being honest about your experiences. I enjoyed reading it. Made me think.

Your first guess is the right one. My wife wasn't too excited about going out when we first met. She was only comfortable going to really quiet places and preferred spending quality time indoors. I slowly introduced her to a lot of activities. Now, she loves going to the beach, or having a picnic at the park. She even developed a love for rollercoasters, even though they still scare her. You have no idea how hilarious it is to see someone enthusiastically saying they want to go on a ride again while their knees are trembling lol. I can't wait till she's ready to go skydiving. Anyway, there's a lot more to get into, but the point is, I showed her my world, and she loves it, even if she doesn't have the energy to live in it 24/7.

She also introduced me to her world. One of our favourite activities now is to bring the blankets and the table out to the balcony. Have some tea, or lemonade. And just relax while she reads one of her favourite books to me. I would rarely read a book on my own, but with her guiding me through it, it's a really enjoyable experience. She's introduced me to a lot more activities that she's into. Like roleplaying, board games, movies, and my absolute favourite of the lot is her world. Yes. She has an entire fucking world she invented in her head. Now it might just be her, but she's really good at bringing her world to life with her words and gestures.
The same thing applies to me. I wouldn't live the way she does 24/7, but I love dabbling in it for a few hours every other day.

Stepping out of your comfort zone would be doing something that makes you uncomfortable. For example, your friends who didn't feel comfortable doing indoor activities could have stepped out of their comfort zones a little and tried your activities anyway. Sometimes you end up liking something only after you get over the initial discomfort. It really helps if you have someone who is enthusiastic about the activity holding your hand through it all because it makes it more fun and less uncomfortable.

Maybe culture has something to do with it as well? I am Chinese by ethnicity so most of my life I’ve been around East Asian culture, which due to Confucian beliefs, places (unfortunately) a lot of emphasis on your outward image, appearance, social status and accomplishments etc. I hate these aspects of Confucianism. American / Anglosphere culture a lot of times is also like that too, Canada being so similar to the US.
Well, I'm East African, but my culture is quite mixed in a way. I grew up in Switzerland and the UK and spent most of my adult life travelling and living in many different countries. My wife is Japanese and she's in a similar boat. She grew up in Japan and Canada and travelled a lot. It's funny. We're from opposite sides of the world but our values are almost identical. We care about our appearance, image and social status. But authenticity is way more important than all of that to both of us. We'd rather lose points with society than with ourselves if that makes sense. As for accomplishments, I can't say I've ever wondered about her accomplishments in life. She's never asked me about my accomplishments either. That would prove an interesting conversation, because accomplishments are important to me, but I don't think they should matter to anyone else. At the same time, I wouldn't have a problem if she showed an interest in my accomplishments. Maybe I'd even like it. I don't know. I've never thought about it. See what I mean? You've got me thinking again lol. Boring INFP? As if!

I’m a guy who’s looking to get married in the next couple of years, and my past experience with my ESFP ex and female ESFP acquaintances (looking back they weren’t really close friends) has been that they can be a little hard to please, the Se can be very demanding. I like having a good time, I love many “sensory” (not all) experiences too but maybe in smaller doses, I’m not very much a party or social gathering kind of person but food is perhaps my biggest weakness. I also love art (not modern unless I can see the message behind it), music, nature and history. However I still live in my mind a lot and wish the world was different in so many ways.
I think if you tweaked your methods a little you could go a long a way.

Instead of taking her on her journey, you should take her on your journey. And so she doesn't get tired of your world, you should ask her to take you on her journey as well. Split up your free time together so you spend a third in your world, a third in her world, and a third meeting half way.

If you want to share, what are the deep thoughts and fantasies that surprised you the most from your INFP girl?
While she's never outright told me not to share her thoughts with anyone, I don't think she'd appreciate it. I can't explain it. It's just a feeling I have.

To be honest though, it's her enthusiasm and passion that gets me hooked more than the words themselves. She could probably talk about anything and I'd listen.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Another example of my Ne and maybe N-ness in general, lol. So yeah the Round of 16 in the Euros is about to start, and last night I suddenly had the urge to describe each of the matchups in a more figurative way:

1. Wales vs Denmark- The Welsh under king Gareth I must face a furious Viking horde who had recently lost their king Erik the Great. King Simon I Kjaer, who was elected by an emergency council of noblemen as the new ruler, must continue to inspire the Danish people after crushing an invasion by the Russians.

2. Spain vs Croatia- The fortresses of Dalmatia on the coast of the Adriatic must face a new Spanish Armada. Will the brilliance of Luka I, along with his generals Rakitic, Perisic, and Kovacic be enough to preserve the sovereignty of the Croats?

3. England vs Germany- Britannia must hold back the Teutonic onslaught on the shores of the Thames. The Teutonic Order will be desperate for gains after having expeditionary forces crushed by the far eastern kingdom of Goguryeo and the Aztec Empire.

4. Italy vs Austria- A resurgent Roman Empire moves to take the Austrian territory of the Hollenzerns, while the Hungarian lands were ravaged by the Teutonic Order.

5. Sweden vs Ukraine- The Swedes, the most dominant Viking faction in the northlands, move east into Slavic and Tatar lands. They are hungry for another victory since defeating the fearsome armies of the Grand Duchy of Warsaw led by Archduke Lewandowski.

6. France vs Switzerland- As a warring band of Gauls and their African mercenaries (led by the feared Kylian Mbappe) descend upon the Swiss Confederation, will the Swiss be able to hold out?

7. Belgium vs Portugal- King Christian the Great of Portugal, who by his own might prevented the armies of Castile from ravaging his lands 3 years ago, must now contend with a new Belgian threat led by grand dukes Hazard, De Bruyne, and Lukaku. The very fate of the small Iberian nation is in jeopardy.

8. Netherlands vs Czech Republic- The Netherlands, who have long been a republic amidst monarchies, must put the survival of their nation to the test as a bloodthirsty Bohemian horde descend upon the Seven Provinces. The Bohemians, with the young and promising Schick leading the vanguard, will hope to strike early and demoralize the Dutch ranks.

One of the other guys in this chat group I’m in (likely ISxP) thought I was nuts lol. And he was like “wow you really like fantasy stories.” Lol.
 
#26 ·
@WraithOfNightmare

I haven’t gotten to read all of the posts and hopefully aim not jumping in too quickly but here are some of my thoughts:

1. You are not alone. We NFPs,and to a heavier extent INFPs, are looking for places we “fit”. And when we don’t it is really tough, especially for INFPs who do not think they should have to change and although they will push back enough to give space enough to make themselves alone, pushing back directly at the world to create relationships is difficult. Actually what you saw with the ESFPs was not from their S but was actually from their extroversion together with tert Te. Te pushes back at the world, negotiates for power, and is interested in conquering and challenging. It’s in third place, but even the spirit of that in 3rd place together with extroversion usually lends a “You reap what you sow” attitude for ExFPs that bubbles up in our 20’s and makes it so that we feel on a higher level than IxFPs that we can make our lives/world be what we want them to be to a much higher degree. Yes this takes work but is so worth it, especially to the ExFP. Extroverts aren’t as sensitive to negative data, so they ignore negative info more and push through with their will more. Imagine how this must feel in dom position and an extrovert? ESTJs want to conquer and often despise people/ideas who don’t push back at them. They want to hammer and be hammered upon to learn the boundaries of others and that’s what respect means to them and probably feels like a good massage to them. I have heard many of them say that people pushing back is how they then feel comfortable. I have even met ESTJs that basically force you to push back because they just needed that to give any respect back. That’s not true for ExFPs as we are feelers and want to be accepted for our Fi, but it’s something that’s good to remember about stronger Te. Actually everything got easier for my husband—EVERYTHING— when my INFP husbands inferior Te started to grow in the last 3 years as he is 41 now.

2. Other types. I haven’t yet found any ESTJ I would be friends with, but that was my goal when I first got to PerC, and because of that goal I worked hard to get more comfortable. ISTJs sometimes have an awakening of Fi when a bit older. My ISTJ brother who tried to suppress my Ne within an inch of his life when we were younger and who I called “the dream crusher” is now trying hard to understand everything that has come so naturally to me my whole life— morality and culture and feelings and how to deal with others and how the world and companies should be. A very important thing is to know is that the big picture, particularly what would make this world/culture/company run better, that seems so obvious to us and that we constantly get annoyed at people for not seeing is basically undetectable to the other types. They need this from us and they have to be forgiven for not being able to see it. We NFPs need to have confidence in explaining these things while also being forgiving of the lack of this understanding by the other types. This usually shows up in our writing and creative works. We need to know that what is so obvious to us is desperately needed by our companies and countries BUT we need to keep listening to everyone’s experience, looking at resources, and we also need to research enough to actually be a true help here. Knowing our strength and forgiving others their lack in that same area while acknowledging the strengths they have that we do not have is important and can get us all closer to truly working well together. Feeling that you have really contributed to a better world in any field is the thing we really really want, right? Feels amazing to think about. It’s possible for sure.

I will probably write more later.
 
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