I don’t know if any of my fellow NFs are like this, but it seems to me that whether I’m around ST types or SF types, the major differences in our cognition (S vs N) makes me behave in a very different and unnatural way than when I’m around N types (strong TJs are a bit challenging). What I mean by this is since I know that it will be more of an uphill struggle to communicate, I become extra desperate and a little pushy in putting my views forward and trying to make myself understood. I definitely notice that I become more “adversarial” whereas interacting with other N types, especially NF types, is generally calmer and smoother and where I just don’t feel the same sense of having to lay all my cards on the table at once.
This is old, yes I know, but how I personally experience the N / S divide, and again this has happened with both SFs and STs, is not only difficulty in communicating (beyond a more shallow / specific / limited sort of level), but it goes deeper than that.
In the past before I discovered this and even for a while after I discovered this, I really wanted to become like them and try to understand them. Many of them are just nice, ordinary people that aren’t “out to get us”, but no matter how hard I tried to let them know me better I often always felt a sense of rejection from them. It was usually along the lines of being called weird for my ideas and interests or just my general way of talking (despite the fact that fellow Ns usually think I’m very well-spoken). In this regard SFPs, even ESFPs, seemed slightly more accommodating than SFJs and STJs with STPs in the middle, but I could only get so far with them.
I have, on numerous occasions, tried to help them during times of need, only to be told “you just don’t understand” because they already saw me as “that weird person” in their contacts or social media. And no this is not specific to girls, but I was told more than once “you’re nicer than I thought but you’re just not what I need.” To be fair, handling practical, concrete matters that require objective reasoning and thinking, or commonly accepted “social skills” is not my strong suite at all. Maybe they saw it differently than I did (even SFs), but when I was trying to give some valuable insights out of what I felt / reasoned about the situation and being compassionate they never seemed to fully appreciate me because I haven’t personally / concretely experienced what they feel like they’re going through.
Rather than your typical “Intuitives rock, Sensors suck because Intuitives are rare and different” kind of thing, I often felt like Sensors of all kinds never took me seriously as an equal even when I really wanted to fit in and be like them. For a long time, and sometimes even now I constantly ask myself whether I’ll ever find love and happiness, I’m turning 25 in a weeks and don’t want to wait for too long. I want to be a dad and have my own kids but sometimes I ask whether I’ll become a good parent compared to the more typical SF and ST types. For many years when I was around them I often felt like time and everything that was happening just passed me by. I did and said things to get attention but just ended up making myself look worse to them, because I guess they could “intuitively” and instinctively figure out what I was doing.
I’ve become a lot more selective of the people I get close to as time goes by. People I used to talk to a lot more often when I was in a less emotionally stable period and battling some depression, now I have come to realize how little I actually have in common with them. I guess it’s what someone once told me, when I was 20-ish and he was 27, that by the time I reach his age I’ll have lost a lot of friends and people I thought were my friends. I guess that’s what has happened to me now but I don’t entirely regret it because I no longer go out of my way to be accepted for the sake of being accepted. I guess I’ve also become much more protective of my thoughts and my values.
However, all of this has made me hardened and more skeptical at times, which turns me into someone more pushy, even argumentative when once they really get to know me they will realize I’m actually not like that and hate conflict and arguments or even debates. S types outnumber us vastly and I have, for a while, questioned whether INFPs really make up 4% and whether ENFPs really make up 8%.
This reaction I’m describing is more likely to show up around SF types. Around ST types I’m more likely to freeze up, disengage and withdraw.
I haven’t met any ISFPs, but my experience with ESFPs is that initially I feel as though I’ve finally met someone that understands me for who I am, due to the shared Fi, but the further we know each other the more I realize they want to make the most of the world around them while I want to quietly sit back and live at my own pace. Their love language is very much gifts based while my love language is much more based on a deep understanding of each other. I used to chat to an ESFP girl as an acquaintance and she told me that if her boyfriend were like me in terms of the things he wanted to talk about, she’d feel insecure. Their “live in the moment” modus operandi often manifests as having, from my perspective, a worrying lack of insight, hindsight and foresight into their own actions even when it comes with very much tangible and difficult consequences.
This girl shopped her way into major debt and is unable to move to another country to be with her boyfriend, and one time she asked me how she can avoid it in the future. I flatly told her it’s not a matter of learning to avoid it, but that it’s about finding contentment from her inner world and not being preoccupied with image because it’s not like 99% of people really care anyway. Anyone can tell her what she wants to hear. That clearly didn’t go too well with her and she went back to taking out more loans to pay back her current ones.
An ESFP ex almost seemed like my soulmate, we could talk about almost everything, but I never felt safe with her as she really wanted to press her vision of an ideal life onto me. She was a realist at heart despite being fun-loving, and betrayed my trust numerous times by letting others know certain things about me that I thought we had implicitly agreed to keep it between ourselves. That got me into trouble and lots of questioning / ridicule on a couple of occasions.
ISFJs, even ESFJs, also give me the feeling of being understood and taken care of at first. However, my experience with them is that they are actually colder and more apprehensive (towards those who don’t match the societal / personal expectations they have learned, usually from others or existing systems) on the inside whereas I’m more the opposite. I have many strong views and won’t hesitate to distance myself from someone if I feel like my beliefs have been trampled on, but I often feel as though xSFJs do what they do more out of societal obligation or personal agendas more so than really wanting the world to become a better place with less suffering. They’re very much in tune with what the “mainstream” finds respectable, and I’m shocked by how harsh they can be once I get to know them more.
I have not met any female STPs, but I have met a number of STP guys. There’s not much to say about them except that I don’t have much in common with them and that they find my overly sensitive and incompetent. On a few occasions it almost felt like low-key bullying when I was giving my thoughts on things and they were like “how do you know? It seems like you know everything.” They’re very much physical people into things like sports, cars, drinking and sex. Not saying I’m not into any of those things but those things aren’t enough for me. STJs from my experience are, enough said, usually traditionalists and conservatives (not always in the ways I find admirable). I have come across extreme STJs with borderline Darwinist / Fascist views (STPs too), who look down on the less privileged (and yet none of them come from wealthy backgrounds), minorities (and yet many I know belong to minorities in Anglosphere countries) and just don’t believe in helping people out.
Other than that both STPs and STJs tend to be very dry in their conversations and really aren’t interested in much more than what’s going around them / immediately applicable. I’m Asian-Canadian myself and I’ve come across some very disturbing views from them on ethnic / racial minorities (usually Asians but not always) even if they weren’t directed against me. I currently live in China (MBTI wise I wouldn’t say it’s easier) since leaving Vancouver.
Another thing that I’m not sure all Sensors have, and to be fair I am pretty dumb at some things that are obvious to them, but I do feel as though they can be very oblivious and insensitive to things outside their immediate, daily life. I’m currently stuck in Taiwan (and have been for over a year) and unable to go home due to Covid. Yesterday when I saw the wife of one of my friends post pictures of her mom’s cooking on social media (which I pretty much just use to chat with a couple people), I said I really missed being home and wanted to go back by now. She (not sure what type she is but most likely xSFx like many girls are) said “oh just come back when you have time”followed by a sarcastic smiley. Maybe I’m reading into it too much but I felt like she simply didn’t understand what I’m going through (despite the fact that I’m sure my friend told her at some point). No it’s not that I “don’t have time”, I can’t go back even if I wanted to. She’s fairly nice and simple from what I’ve seen of her, but if she was not my friend’s wife I may well have felt like getting a little more argumentative over her crude and insensitive remark. It doesn’t take rocket science. One simple search online would have let her know what situation I’m in.
Sorry for this thread, I just really felt like letting it all out. I would really love to hear if any fellow NFs have had the same, similar, or different experiences as me whether now or some point in the past. If it sounds like yet another typical “us good, them bad” kind of thread, I admit on some days it really does feel that way because of past and current hurt and rejection even when I want to get to know them with the best of intentions. At the same time I feel like both types of Sensors are usually so much more adjusted, good at things I’m not, are so much happier and worldly intelligent than me. I wonder if my life would be any easier as one of them, though I know I have my own strengths too.
They just seem so confident, enjoying life and the world as it is while I feel like it’s hard to live in the present (despite saying people should) and feel as though so many things pass me by while I’m looking to feel secure and appreciated. I have even worried about having antisocial and psychopathic tendencies. I’m actually very shy when it comes to helping people out and don’t like to be seen / don’t want to be known, because that never feels right to me. I’m not hardcore religious anymore but I do believe that the Bible says we should help those in need when not in the sight of others. In Grade 11 I became super disillusioned with the whole education system and started questioning it. I only went to college under the persuasion of my older INFJ friend, and looking back it was a worthy experience but I really felt so upset with being told what to learn, how and when to learn it, and being in the rigid school structure. I’m skeptical of authority and rules.
Some online descriptions as well real life perceptions of INFPs and other NF types is borderline offensive to me. While SFJs are made out to be those “caring little angels that always make you feel nurtured and protected”, we’re often described as people who just “think about it” rather than doing the same thing an SFJ would do to show that we care. Yes I do live in my head a lot but I very much show I care through tangible gestures. I care not for giving or receiving gifts, my main way of showing love is forming a deep connection, but I very much do things to take care of loved ones. I might not always know how to respond to many “practical” situations in a timely and effective manner, but no I don’t just “think about it.” I’m also not someone who is controversial and loud in being different for the sake of it (though to some S types I am always that way no matter what I say or do). Nor do I believe in it. An ESFP or ISFP will beat me any day if they wanted to be creative and avant-garde. Many of the things I want are in fact, “normal” things, I’m not some other species. I just don’t believe that what I want to have by attaining those things is necessarily the same whether in ends or means.
So much of it is just tiring, especially when considering I’ve been given a ton of flak by none other than family members who are supposed to look after me (yet a number of them were oblivious to their own crap, battling issues with anger management and substance abuse).
Apologies in advance for such a long piece, I can’t help but get wordy lol. So many Sensors seem to act as though they have it all figured out (until they don’t), yet it’s just me who’s tired of calling them out for how short-sighted they really are. They just always see me as “irrational” and “immature” (I think “rationality” and “maturity” are overrated anyway, too often used as placebos by people who aren’t aware of their own subjectivity and lack of substance or soul) when they very much have, and still do make mistakes out of their own lack of insight or just foolishness.
This is old, yes I know, but how I personally experience the N / S divide, and again this has happened with both SFs and STs, is not only difficulty in communicating (beyond a more shallow / specific / limited sort of level), but it goes deeper than that.
In the past before I discovered this and even for a while after I discovered this, I really wanted to become like them and try to understand them. Many of them are just nice, ordinary people that aren’t “out to get us”, but no matter how hard I tried to let them know me better I often always felt a sense of rejection from them. It was usually along the lines of being called weird for my ideas and interests or just my general way of talking (despite the fact that fellow Ns usually think I’m very well-spoken). In this regard SFPs, even ESFPs, seemed slightly more accommodating than SFJs and STJs with STPs in the middle, but I could only get so far with them.
I have, on numerous occasions, tried to help them during times of need, only to be told “you just don’t understand” because they already saw me as “that weird person” in their contacts or social media. And no this is not specific to girls, but I was told more than once “you’re nicer than I thought but you’re just not what I need.” To be fair, handling practical, concrete matters that require objective reasoning and thinking, or commonly accepted “social skills” is not my strong suite at all. Maybe they saw it differently than I did (even SFs), but when I was trying to give some valuable insights out of what I felt / reasoned about the situation and being compassionate they never seemed to fully appreciate me because I haven’t personally / concretely experienced what they feel like they’re going through.
Rather than your typical “Intuitives rock, Sensors suck because Intuitives are rare and different” kind of thing, I often felt like Sensors of all kinds never took me seriously as an equal even when I really wanted to fit in and be like them. For a long time, and sometimes even now I constantly ask myself whether I’ll ever find love and happiness, I’m turning 25 in a weeks and don’t want to wait for too long. I want to be a dad and have my own kids but sometimes I ask whether I’ll become a good parent compared to the more typical SF and ST types. For many years when I was around them I often felt like time and everything that was happening just passed me by. I did and said things to get attention but just ended up making myself look worse to them, because I guess they could “intuitively” and instinctively figure out what I was doing.
I’ve become a lot more selective of the people I get close to as time goes by. People I used to talk to a lot more often when I was in a less emotionally stable period and battling some depression, now I have come to realize how little I actually have in common with them. I guess it’s what someone once told me, when I was 20-ish and he was 27, that by the time I reach his age I’ll have lost a lot of friends and people I thought were my friends. I guess that’s what has happened to me now but I don’t entirely regret it because I no longer go out of my way to be accepted for the sake of being accepted. I guess I’ve also become much more protective of my thoughts and my values.
However, all of this has made me hardened and more skeptical at times, which turns me into someone more pushy, even argumentative when once they really get to know me they will realize I’m actually not like that and hate conflict and arguments or even debates. S types outnumber us vastly and I have, for a while, questioned whether INFPs really make up 4% and whether ENFPs really make up 8%.
This reaction I’m describing is more likely to show up around SF types. Around ST types I’m more likely to freeze up, disengage and withdraw.
I haven’t met any ISFPs, but my experience with ESFPs is that initially I feel as though I’ve finally met someone that understands me for who I am, due to the shared Fi, but the further we know each other the more I realize they want to make the most of the world around them while I want to quietly sit back and live at my own pace. Their love language is very much gifts based while my love language is much more based on a deep understanding of each other. I used to chat to an ESFP girl as an acquaintance and she told me that if her boyfriend were like me in terms of the things he wanted to talk about, she’d feel insecure. Their “live in the moment” modus operandi often manifests as having, from my perspective, a worrying lack of insight, hindsight and foresight into their own actions even when it comes with very much tangible and difficult consequences.
This girl shopped her way into major debt and is unable to move to another country to be with her boyfriend, and one time she asked me how she can avoid it in the future. I flatly told her it’s not a matter of learning to avoid it, but that it’s about finding contentment from her inner world and not being preoccupied with image because it’s not like 99% of people really care anyway. Anyone can tell her what she wants to hear. That clearly didn’t go too well with her and she went back to taking out more loans to pay back her current ones.
An ESFP ex almost seemed like my soulmate, we could talk about almost everything, but I never felt safe with her as she really wanted to press her vision of an ideal life onto me. She was a realist at heart despite being fun-loving, and betrayed my trust numerous times by letting others know certain things about me that I thought we had implicitly agreed to keep it between ourselves. That got me into trouble and lots of questioning / ridicule on a couple of occasions.
ISFJs, even ESFJs, also give me the feeling of being understood and taken care of at first. However, my experience with them is that they are actually colder and more apprehensive (towards those who don’t match the societal / personal expectations they have learned, usually from others or existing systems) on the inside whereas I’m more the opposite. I have many strong views and won’t hesitate to distance myself from someone if I feel like my beliefs have been trampled on, but I often feel as though xSFJs do what they do more out of societal obligation or personal agendas more so than really wanting the world to become a better place with less suffering. They’re very much in tune with what the “mainstream” finds respectable, and I’m shocked by how harsh they can be once I get to know them more.
I have not met any female STPs, but I have met a number of STP guys. There’s not much to say about them except that I don’t have much in common with them and that they find my overly sensitive and incompetent. On a few occasions it almost felt like low-key bullying when I was giving my thoughts on things and they were like “how do you know? It seems like you know everything.” They’re very much physical people into things like sports, cars, drinking and sex. Not saying I’m not into any of those things but those things aren’t enough for me. STJs from my experience are, enough said, usually traditionalists and conservatives (not always in the ways I find admirable). I have come across extreme STJs with borderline Darwinist / Fascist views (STPs too), who look down on the less privileged (and yet none of them come from wealthy backgrounds), minorities (and yet many I know belong to minorities in Anglosphere countries) and just don’t believe in helping people out.
Other than that both STPs and STJs tend to be very dry in their conversations and really aren’t interested in much more than what’s going around them / immediately applicable. I’m Asian-Canadian myself and I’ve come across some very disturbing views from them on ethnic / racial minorities (usually Asians but not always) even if they weren’t directed against me. I currently live in China (MBTI wise I wouldn’t say it’s easier) since leaving Vancouver.
Another thing that I’m not sure all Sensors have, and to be fair I am pretty dumb at some things that are obvious to them, but I do feel as though they can be very oblivious and insensitive to things outside their immediate, daily life. I’m currently stuck in Taiwan (and have been for over a year) and unable to go home due to Covid. Yesterday when I saw the wife of one of my friends post pictures of her mom’s cooking on social media (which I pretty much just use to chat with a couple people), I said I really missed being home and wanted to go back by now. She (not sure what type she is but most likely xSFx like many girls are) said “oh just come back when you have time”followed by a sarcastic smiley. Maybe I’m reading into it too much but I felt like she simply didn’t understand what I’m going through (despite the fact that I’m sure my friend told her at some point). No it’s not that I “don’t have time”, I can’t go back even if I wanted to. She’s fairly nice and simple from what I’ve seen of her, but if she was not my friend’s wife I may well have felt like getting a little more argumentative over her crude and insensitive remark. It doesn’t take rocket science. One simple search online would have let her know what situation I’m in.
Sorry for this thread, I just really felt like letting it all out. I would really love to hear if any fellow NFs have had the same, similar, or different experiences as me whether now or some point in the past. If it sounds like yet another typical “us good, them bad” kind of thread, I admit on some days it really does feel that way because of past and current hurt and rejection even when I want to get to know them with the best of intentions. At the same time I feel like both types of Sensors are usually so much more adjusted, good at things I’m not, are so much happier and worldly intelligent than me. I wonder if my life would be any easier as one of them, though I know I have my own strengths too.
They just seem so confident, enjoying life and the world as it is while I feel like it’s hard to live in the present (despite saying people should) and feel as though so many things pass me by while I’m looking to feel secure and appreciated. I have even worried about having antisocial and psychopathic tendencies. I’m actually very shy when it comes to helping people out and don’t like to be seen / don’t want to be known, because that never feels right to me. I’m not hardcore religious anymore but I do believe that the Bible says we should help those in need when not in the sight of others. In Grade 11 I became super disillusioned with the whole education system and started questioning it. I only went to college under the persuasion of my older INFJ friend, and looking back it was a worthy experience but I really felt so upset with being told what to learn, how and when to learn it, and being in the rigid school structure. I’m skeptical of authority and rules.
Some online descriptions as well real life perceptions of INFPs and other NF types is borderline offensive to me. While SFJs are made out to be those “caring little angels that always make you feel nurtured and protected”, we’re often described as people who just “think about it” rather than doing the same thing an SFJ would do to show that we care. Yes I do live in my head a lot but I very much show I care through tangible gestures. I care not for giving or receiving gifts, my main way of showing love is forming a deep connection, but I very much do things to take care of loved ones. I might not always know how to respond to many “practical” situations in a timely and effective manner, but no I don’t just “think about it.” I’m also not someone who is controversial and loud in being different for the sake of it (though to some S types I am always that way no matter what I say or do). Nor do I believe in it. An ESFP or ISFP will beat me any day if they wanted to be creative and avant-garde. Many of the things I want are in fact, “normal” things, I’m not some other species. I just don’t believe that what I want to have by attaining those things is necessarily the same whether in ends or means.
So much of it is just tiring, especially when considering I’ve been given a ton of flak by none other than family members who are supposed to look after me (yet a number of them were oblivious to their own crap, battling issues with anger management and substance abuse).
Apologies in advance for such a long piece, I can’t help but get wordy lol. So many Sensors seem to act as though they have it all figured out (until they don’t), yet it’s just me who’s tired of calling them out for how short-sighted they really are. They just always see me as “irrational” and “immature” (I think “rationality” and “maturity” are overrated anyway, too often used as placebos by people who aren’t aware of their own subjectivity and lack of substance or soul) when they very much have, and still do make mistakes out of their own lack of insight or just foolishness.