Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,105 Posts
Discussion Starter #1

Let me explain that I am aware that what one wants as a fantasy or an imagining is different than what one would want in reality.

For example, sometimes I get horny for my cousin. That doesn't mean I want to smash with her though.

So given that...I thought about it, being prompted by others on the forum in other discussions, and the truth is this.

FOR SOME PEOPLE FANTASY IS REALITY!

Let me explain, some of us believe in a spiritual tradition or religious code - A FANTASY. Some of us believe in what science describes as reality - BORDERLINE FANTASY (BUST MOST LIKELY FANTASY).

The truth is there is a spectrum of fantasy to sensate reality, and even sesnate reality is technically fantasy, albeit one that is a bit more sensible than unicorn dicks living on planet nemu.

That being said...The old adage that FANTASY IS NOT REALITY, doesn't really hold any ground.

The best we can say is..."Yeah I have fantasies of being raped...but it doesn't mean I want your dick in me physically. Maybe this thing in my head that makes images is another reality though, and in that one, please do rape me."

You can't really get better than that...unless you can. Discuss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,161 Posts
That one can distinguish between fantasy and reality is a prominent issue in pointing out that one's fantasy is a fantasy. In the same way that I can distinguish between someone playing the character Stephen Colbert from the person Stephen Colbert.
There is an element of same reality but different understanding of that same reality.

But when it comes to fantasy, it operates in a realm distant from material sexuality, even when one is being sexual, fanstasy can be distant from it, conjuring up things that aren't there.
Because sexual fantasy perhaps overlaps with desire and desire relies on a inherent lacking, because to have what one desires already, destroys the desire.
So in this sense, we don't want what we want, in that one wants it in fantasy quite precisely means not wanting it at all because one would lose the fantasy or of course the fantasy is not what the reality is. Because in fantasy, many details and implications are abstracted out.

But it is also the case, that one does impose one's subjectivity too much without an awareness that it is their subjectivity and think its constitutes the reality.
Thinking and Being: Lacan versus Parmenides | Philosophical Explorations
The correspondence theory utilizes a mirror model between subject and world; the removal of the mirror leaves us in the dark concerning the real.
These are worrisome types if the nature of their subjectivity is extreme ir problematic in it's ill fit to the reality in that they'll act upon desires that don't correspond to reality. In this sense, this is where one projects one's desires as originating from reality itself, which of course perfectly fits with what one wants, and so reality seems to always fit with one's subjectivity.
This characterizes the severely delusional who can only see their desire, but can't seem to distinguish it's origins within themselves. And even for those that seem somewhat self aware of their own desire, there is still the issue int hat we can still operate in a way that we delete ourselves from scenarios. I know I often speak and think in a way that subtlety avoids myself entirely, any reference to my feelings and desires. In this way, we can make ourselves invisible to ourselves and to others should they also accept the absence.

But that some people can distinguish reality from their own feelings upon it, suggests that it can be done, similar to how one distinguishes fantasy from reality. But the issue is how much can we see reality and not necessarily have it mediated through a symbolic plane.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/althusser/1970/ideology.htm
Thesis I. Ideology represents the imaginary relationship of individuals to their real conditions of existence.
What is a Subject? | Philosophical Explorations
A language cannot be created at will; a context of interpretation has to exist prior to the creation of any language. This implies that there is a dimensional shift, a gap between reality and language. Neither language nor the subject emerges continuously from reality; each comes into existence as a discontinuity. Once it exists, it transforms the reality within which it exists forever, because it creates new systems of signification which are themselves real. The human being is random, contingent, and nevertheless absolute. It bridges the gap between the symbolic order and the real: As ego it is an object of language, and at the same time it is the subject that speaks, the animal capable of language, and therefore caught up in a process of meaning-making. Language creates reality, but it is also a symbolic space that tries to mirror and describe “real” reality, that which lies outside the human mind. This duplication causes the confusion that has haunted our thinking for millennia, and has caused all kinds of philosophical errors.
EDIT: I think a relevant distinction also comes from desire and will. I may desire something but it's ultimately up to my will as to whether I really want it or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,123 Posts
I disagree with both Zizek (video) and @Wellsy, which may make me seem trite or aberrant, and do not get me wrong I respect both. Anyway here goes,

We DO want what we want, really. The fantastical INCLUDES unspoken limits. We want to experience the rape without the issues of a) anyone else knowing, b) any negative emotive traps for us, and c) no lasting damage of any sort. That IS the fantasy. Fantasy shows us the truth, the absolute truth, of deontological ethics. We intend no harm so ... consequentially ... THERE IS NONE. That is fantasy. Fantasy proves that consequentialism is a lie.

We REALLY do want that to be the case.

I can also easily disprove Zizek by simply saying 'I want things to be BETTER'. Done - he's wrong. If you get vague enough, any statement is true (and also meaningless) like bad fantasy.

The ideal, the fantasy, is a world where immorality is acceptable. That is precisely because there are no consequences. That is the imagination BY DEFINITION. That is the entire purpose of the imagination, or half of it.

The imagination:
a) allows us to run scenarios through our predictive sense WITHOUT facing consequences
b) allows us to imagine how we would FEEL if we apply real world filters/limits to the fantastic scenario.

This shows the incredible power of fantasy and idealism in general. But many people just do part a. They are immature not to go on to part b. Part b is the wise action of fantasy. The what-if's, adding consequentialism back in AFTER_THE_FACT, as it should be, to determine not only that our intent (deontological goal) was correct, but, that in fact, once the intent is realized in the real world, that the consequences are also for the common good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SevSevens

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,873 Posts
My fantasy would be fucked by my crush so i guess in reality ofcourse i wanna be fucked by him..

Please fuck me, crush
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,105 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
My fantasy would be fucked by my crush so i guess in reality ofcourse i wanna be fucked by him..

Please fuck me, crush
Get in line. With a face like this they're falling off the wall for me with their wings wide open like flies off a buzz zapper.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,105 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
On a serious note, I was banging my girlfriend earlier and I asked her to pretend that I was a viking falling upon her against her will. I started deep dicking her, not too hard, and started biting her like a sex starved animal.

I told her now that she has the big d she can just chill and cum and tell her boyfriend I forced myself on her later. This fantasy turned her on as there were puddles of female juice laid out all around her sexy puss.

I then finished with the rape fantasy and she had an insanely strong orgasm, shortly before I released inside her.

It was beautiful. We kissed and then said I love you. She also told me that she loved me. This isn't the first girl I dated who has had a rape fantasy. Out of a population of 10,000,000 i've sampled 30 so far and each one has had the same fantasy.
 

·
Registered
ENTJ; 8w7; Persian C
Joined
·
9,448 Posts
On a serious note, I was banging my girlfriend earlier and I asked her to pretend that I was a viking falling upon her against her will. I started deep dicking her, not too hard, and started biting her like a sex starved animal.

I told her now that she has the big d she can just chill and cum and tell her boyfriend I forced myself on her later. This fantasy turned her on as there were puddles of female juice laid out all around her sexy puss.

I then finished with the rape fantasy and she had an insanely strong orgasm, shortly before I released inside her.

It was beautiful. We kissed and then said I love you. She also told me that she loved me. This isn't the first girl I dated who has had a rape fantasy. Out of a population of 10,000,000 i've sampled 30 so far and each one has had the same fantasy.
What a marvelous boyfriend you are. Would you ever perform a warehouse scene - one in which the female specimen is "tricked" + tied up, masked/blind-folded (&) ruined by fully clothed unknown testosterone-pumping male in combat boots (?)

____________

(On topic); the Wellsy penguin has sufficiently given the appropriate answer, I needn't elaborate. Žižek is a marvelous specimen as well, when not overdosing on unknown substance(s) making his lectures audibly incomprehensible.

I have acted on many of my fantasies however, all except a few, involving randomized strangers. While I am rather self-disciplined; I have malfunction(s) (&) (Se)-indulgence issues with desire (&) will act on them if feasible, or dangling in front of myself with opportunism, and there are no rational reasons to deny. I reckon the malfunctions are past related; however I am not particularly seeking any cures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,105 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
What a marvelous boyfriend you are. Would you ever perform a warehouse scene - one in which the female specimen is "tricked" + tied up, masked/blind-folded (&) ruined by fully clothed unknown testosterone-pumping male in combat boots (?)

____________

(On topic); the Wellsy penguin has sufficiently given the appropriate answer, I needn't elaborate. Žižek is a marvelous specimen as well, when not overdosing on unknown substance(s) making his lectures audibly incomprehensible.

I have acted on many of my fantasies however, all except a few, involving randomized strangers. While I am rather self-disciplined; I have malfunction(s) (&) (Se)-indulgence issues with desire (&) will act on them if feasible, or dangling in front of myself with opportunism, and there are no rational reasons to deny. I reckon the malfunctions are past related; however I am not particularly seeking any cures.
Yes I would and I'm going to do that tomorrow night when my sac recharges. I find you have some of the best ideas on here and given that you are highly intelligent, I'd probably feel compelled to stalk you had I not been involved with another.

I also give her an intense amount of joy whispering about our threesome with another man in France, or tying her up and watching me with another. We probably won't ever try the first one in real life though.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,873 Posts
On a serious note, I was banging my girlfriend earlier and I asked her to pretend that I was a viking falling upon her against her will. I started deep dicking her, not too hard, and started biting her like a sex starved animal.

I told her now that she has the big d she can just chill and cum and tell her boyfriend I forced myself on her later. This fantasy turned her on as there were puddles of female juice laid out all around her sexy puss.

I then finished with the rape fantasy and she had an insanely strong orgasm, shortly before I released inside her.

It was beautiful. We kissed and then said I love you. She also told me that she loved me. This isn't the first girl I dated who has had a rape fantasy. Out of a population of 10,000,000 i've sampled 30 so far and each one has had the same fantasy.
I love that too. That's why i don't like introverts because they cannot be wild lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,017 Posts
Yeah i have fantasies of being smashed in every hole doesn't mean I actually have any desire to really do that IRL. I don't really understand rape fantasies like personally but they don't offend me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts

Let me explain that I am aware that what one wants as a fantasy or an imagining is different than what one would want in reality.

For example, sometimes I get horny for my cousin. That doesn't mean I want to smash with her though.

So given that...I thought about it, being prompted by others on the forum in other discussions, and the truth is this.

FOR SOME PEOPLE FANTASY IS REALITY!

Let me explain, some of us believe in a spiritual tradition or religious code - A FANTASY. Some of us believe in what science describes as reality - BORDERLINE FANTASY (BUST MOST LIKELY FANTASY).

The truth is there is a spectrum of fantasy to sensate reality, and even sesnate reality is technically fantasy, albeit one that is a bit more sensible than unicorn dicks living on planet nemu.

That being said...The old adage that FANTASY IS NOT REALITY, doesn't really hold any ground.

The best we can say is..."Yeah I have fantasies of being raped...but it doesn't mean I want your dick in me physically. Maybe this thing in my head that makes images is another reality though, and in that one, please do rape me."

You can't really get better than that...unless you can. Discuss.

@Wellsy I'm CCing you here too.

It's readily apparent in Freud and Lacan / Zizek that the FANTASY ITSELF is often removed from the FANTASY EMOTION. For example, Freud, in my opinion, correctly points out that all women FANTASIZE about being raped. Now, of course, they don't wish for the traumatic experience or post-rape trauma, but they wish for an opportunity to be helpless in another's arms, and be completely domineered. Now, this could be because they secretly harbor submissive tendencies, but it could also be their wish to be saved, by another.

In @SevSeven 's point involving his cousin. You may FANTASIZE about your cousin, but you do NOT actually wish to commit the act. Instead, you feel connected to the EMOTION of commuting some sort sexually taboo act. Your cousin, because she is close. But, should a woman lay near you in shackles, you may FANTASIZE about rape, but you'd never act upon it, and probably remove her from her fetters.

The FANTASY remains beyond reality, not because of impossibility, but because of the CONTRADICTION NATURE OF THE ACTION AND FANTASY ITSELF. It's not the fear of being caught, it's the conflict of multiple emotions. When you FANTASIZE, you choose a singular EMOTION.

Another example. One who FANTASIZES about being a famous author. If you were to ask them about their book, they would look at you blankly. It's about fame, not the OBJECT OF DESIRE. Because, once the OBJECT OF DESIRE becomes reality, it's fantasy becomes removed. Then, we fantasize again.

The reason for this is perceived relativism. We lay in disgust of our actual lives, and wish for something different. This fantasy provides that. But, ultimately, we'll find the fruit distasteful. That's why life is about the journey and not the destination. This is a constant state of illusion, attempting to hide our real selves from life. Nietzsche talks about this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,123 Posts
I love that too. That's why i don't like introverts because they cannot be wild lol
Introverts are insanely wild, but, only in the right circumstances. You have to win their trust or bowl them over just the right way. The problem is that with many introverts they decide to rule you out rather than in too quickly. It's a reason I work well with INFJs. They make the wondrous mistake/beautiful thing of letting me in long enough for that ENTP (me) intensity to shine. A lot of other introverts I tend to do something too much too fast anyway, non fantasy, just real and primal. The INFJ is like, wait, um ... oh, that's ... ah ... yes ... what ... oh ... good ... dont ... yes ... urrrlllllllgggg! It just works.

The T types are too brusque for me most often. INTP, INTJ ... It's kind of weird for me, finding someone more impatient and blatantly efficient about sex than me, an ENTP type 8. But it does happen.

Yeah, Extroverts are easier and more likely to blow off any awkwardness or missteps. They just flow. But mostly with extroverts we both know we'll burn. Sheetrock and trailer/camper piles are not stable enough for extrovert/extrovert sex. I have a photo album of hotel room lamps, etc. that have paid the price.

I am too primal anyway. There is no need whatsoever for a rape fantasy, unless its her raping me. That's fantasy. :)

And those lovely introverts want their quiet time afterwards which is golden golden golden.
 
  • Like
Reactions: atamagasuita

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,161 Posts
@dlb The impression I take is that fantasy is about the feeling, which is what we want and the object of desire cultivates the feeling and isn't what we want except as a means to feel that something that we lack. Which seems fitting to the point of not wanting what we think we want because the object of desire is simply a cause of desire, and isn't what we actually desire, because we want the feeling, not the object.
https://www.cla.purdue.edu/english/theory/psychoanalysis/lacandesire.html
Our object of desire (what Lacan terms the "objet petit a") is a way for us to establish coordinates for our own desire.
This also compliments something I've seen from Zizek I imagine he takes from Lacan
desire's raison d'etre (or "utility function," to use Richard Dawkins's term) is not to realize its goal, to find full satisfaction, but to reproduce itself as desire.

To which, if I interpreted your summary correctly, the point isn't a want of rape, but what the feelings evoked from the fantasy are.
Which you point to a feeling of giving up control entirely.
And it reminds me a point of women reading romance novels, in which one would miss the function of such works if they thought to much about what is denoted in the works instead of what emotional experience it conjures up.
 
https://uniteyouthdublin.files.word...ural_theory_and_popular_culturebookzz-org.pdf
According to the Smithton women, the ideal romance is one in which an intelligent and independent woman with a good sense of humour is overwhelmed, after much suspicion and distrust, and some cruelty and violence, by the love of a man, who in the course of their relationship is transformed from an emotional pre-literate to someone who can care for her and nurture her in ways that are traditionally expected only from a woman to a man. As Radway explains: ‘The romantic fantasy is . . . not a fantasy about discovering a uniquely interesting life partner, but a ritual wish to be cared for, loved, and validated in a particular way’ (83). It is a fantasy about reciprocation; the wish to believe that men can bestow on women the care and attention women are expected regularly to bestow on men. But the romantic fantasy offers more than this; it recalls a time when the reader was in fact the recipient of an intense ‘maternal’ care.

Drawing on the work of Nancy Chodorow (1978), Radway claims that romantic fantasy is a form of regression in which the reader is imaginatively and emotionally transported to a time ‘when she was the center of a profoundly nurturant individual’s attention’ (Radway, 1987: 84). However, unlike regression centred on the father as suggested by Coward, this is regression focused on the figure of the mother. Romance reading is therefore a means by which women can vicariously – through the hero– heroine relationship – experience the emotional succour which they themselves are expected to provide to others without adequate reciprocation for themselves in their everyday existence
...
In this way, the Smithton women ‘partially reclaim the patriarchal form of the romance for their own use’ (ibid.). The principal ‘psychological benefits’ of reading romance novels derive from ‘the ritualistic repetition of a single, immutable cultural myth’ (198, 199). The fact that 60 per cent of the Smithton readers find it occasionally necessary to read the ending first, to ensure that the experience of the novel will not counteract the satisfactions of the underlying myth, suggests quite strongly that it is the underlying myth of the nurturing male that is ultimately most important in the Smithton women’s experience of romance reading.
This part of control is interesting to consider in regards to not only childhood experiences but also our daily life.
The stereotype of the person who has a great deal of responsibility finding release in giving control to the other.
This is certainly expressed in some form in regards to BDSM
http://www.sagepub.com/sites/defaul...RT_VII___Engaging_in_S&M_Sexual_Practices.pdf
Marina didn’t feel the desire for S&M until she was an adult and had outgrown her eating disorder. “One night, I asked my partner to put his hands around my neck and choke me. I was so surprised when those words came out of my mouth,” she says. If she gave her partner total control over her body, she felt, she could allow herself to feel like a completely sexual being, with none of the hesitation and disconnection she sometimes felt during sex.
Where it seems a lot of BDSM isn't even necessarily all that sexual as much as it's about the emotional side
Although people report that they have better than-usual sex immediately after a scene, the goal of S&M itself is not intercourse: “A good scene doesn’t end in orgasm; it ends in catharsis.
...
After all, the ingredients in good S&M play— communication, respect, and trust—are the same ingredients in good traditional sex. The outcome is the same, too—a feeling of connection to the body and the self.

So I guess the point isn't to look at what is denoted by the fantasy but what drives it, the nature of the desire itself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts
So I guess the point isn't to look at what is denoted by the fantasy but what drives it, the nature of the desire itself.
Exactly. Often, one doesn't know what drives his or her fantasies. It's why psychoanalysis is fundamentally important. Often, it's evolutionary or childhood knowledge.

Evolutionary: All men want to murder and women want to be raped. This comes from thousands of years of training. We can evolve, personally, but it doesn't carry on genetically.

Childhood: Often, those subject to sexual abuse, overact sexually as an adult. An attempt to reclaim the permission they did not give as a child. Meaning, they're attempting to over-sex with permission in order to move that permission back to childhood to undo the rape. I see this a lot in the people I talk with. A LOT. Almost always.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,123 Posts
I love that too. That's why i don't like introverts because they cannot be wild lol
Introverts are insanely wild, but, only in the right circumstances. You have to win their trust or bowl them over just the right way. The problem is that with many introverts they decide to rule you out rather than in too quickly. It's a reason I work well with INFJs. They make the wondrous mistake/beautiful thing of letting me in long enough for that ENTP (me) intensity to shine. A lot of other introverts I tend to do something too much too fast anyway, non fantasy, just real and primal. The INFJ is like, wait, um ... oh, that's ... ah ... yes ... what ... oh ... good ... dont ... yes ... urrrlllllllgggg! It just works.

The T types are too brusque for me most often. INTP, INTJ ... It's kind of weird for me, finding someone more impatient and blatantly efficient about sex than me, an ENTP type 8. But it does happen.

Yeah, Extroverts are easier and more likely to blow off any awkwardness or missteps. They just flow. But mostly with extroverts we both know we'll burn. Sheetrock and trailer/camper piles are not stable enough for extrovert/extrovert sex. I have a photo album of hotel room lamps, etc. that have paid the price.

I am too primal anyway. There is no need whatsoever for a rape fantasy, unless its her raping me. That's fantasy. :) Meh, it's still fantasy the other way to.

And those lovely introverts want their quiet time afterwards which is golden golden golden.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,873 Posts
Introverts are insanely wild, but, only in the right circumstances. You have to win their trust or bowl them over just the right way. The problem is that with many introverts they decide to rule you out rather than in too quickly. It's a reason I work well with INFJs. They make the wondrous mistake/beautiful thing of letting me in long enough for that ENTP (me) intensity to shine. A lot of other introverts I tend to do something too much too fast anyway, non fantasy, just real and primal. The INFJ is like, wait, um ... oh, that's ... ah ... yes ... what ... oh ... good ... dont ... yes ... urrrlllllllgggg! It just works.

The T types are too brusque for me most often. INTP, INTJ ... It's kind of weird for me, finding someone more impatient and blatantly efficient about sex than me, an ENTP type 8. But it does happen.

Yeah, Extroverts are easier and more likely to blow off any awkwardness or missteps. They just flow. But mostly with extroverts we both know we'll burn. Sheetrock and trailer/camper piles are not stable enough for extrovert/extrovert sex. I have a photo album of hotel room lamps, etc. that have paid the price.

I am too primal anyway. There is no need whatsoever for a rape fantasy, unless its her raping me. That's fantasy. :)

And those lovely introverts want their quiet time afterwards which is golden golden golden.
Yes. True. It's like introverts are the nice guys, and they're saved for last.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,123 Posts
Yes. True. It's like introverts are the nice guys, and they're saved for last.
What? Nice?!?!?! Um ... no. I find almost every adjective you can put with extroverts applies to introverts as well, excepting only the value/energy takeaway from being around other people. Introverts general need more alone or away time to recharge and they deconstruct without it. Extroverts need more together or high energy time to recharge and they deconstruct without it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,873 Posts
What? Nice?!?!?! Um ... no. I find almost every adjective you can put with extroverts applies to introverts as well, excepting only the value/energy takeaway from being around other people. Introverts general need more alone or away time to recharge and they deconstruct without it. Extroverts need more together or high energy time to recharge and they deconstruct without it.
It varies.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top