Is it a good idea to write and give a strongly expressive letter to ISFJ/Protector?

No. They'll most likely be very touched but they'll have no idea how to respond because it's not often people do this so they can't compare this to previous information.

From my own experience they also keep how they reply to a minimum fearing what they say will be inferior to what you say and let's be honest here it's hard to top an INFP communicating through writing especially if they're communicating emotions.

Make sure if you do it to say all you want in steps. Don't write her an essay. She's a new friend as well, are you close enough?

Haha, that was indeed helpful and hilarious! I have a feeling we’d get along super! How do I know, you ask? I’m lucky enough for my best friend to be INTJ and a girl, and we’ve already decided we want to work in the same hospital and live on the same block and sit in rocking chairs next to each other at Shady Oaks when the time comes.

Yeah, I think you’re right. I notice ISFJ/she does make a lot of shrieks of alarm directly in response to my behavior, which amounts to no more than normal misbehaving, like sloshing through puddles in sneakers and standing in the pouring rain declaring how energizing and powerful it feels.

So, it’s ok? She will get it? Cause she acts unreadable when I get effervescent. And then I feel embarrassed by her lack of response/ignoring of my emotion.

It’ll be ok. She’s not that new, try 1 year +. Unless I’ve known you for 5+ years, you retain your shiny newness to me.

Umm…it’s under 500 words, the last time I checked the draft I typed up…. It’s kind of organized…by sentiment.

mintyphoenix said:

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It's very easy to establish close relationships with INFPs fairly quickly. I hope Ms. ISFJ doesn't take this for granted and accepts your emotional straight forwardness because it makes things so much easier. Make sure she knows she can say what she likes without you judging her (Yes I'm assuming you have these INFP traits) and then she won't judge you for what you have to say so sending sentimental essays will be fine. Make sure she knows you're a great listener and that having a friendship with you will be mostly drama free and safe and secure (still assuming).
Lol, don't worry ISFJs act like that around me to. Make her look like the silly one by saying something like 'Oh don't be such a stick in the mud'.
I say go for it but be warned it may be a little awkward for her if you're too intense. She might not say much back.

An underdeveloped Si Fe user will be very hesitant to break social norms.

Please, assume away! I’m a textbook INFP with frequent E tendencies (1/3 skew) if I’m feeling safe and positive. I test nearly 90-95% on NFP. It’s hard to see that these days when I’m studying tiredly for dumb tests and watching frat boys stumble out of their house, slipping in their own puke…

Oh, she already thinks I’m awkward. I tend to act so when people try to mother me. I don’t need people to take care of the basics for me. I got all that under control. I know I have to sustain my body to have the energy to make so many long, mental journeys.

What I need is for her to tell me her secrets. I need to know her and she won’t let me. She told me that she believed she’d consider me a friend for life. Was this in a moment of weakness? She has these entirely relatable moments, few and farther apart lately. But that’s what initially intrigued me.

And now I’ve gone and offended her. I didn’t eat ½ of the dinner she went and made for me or want to take it home… I’m just a picky eater. If it’s not a health superfood or irresistible temptation, cheesecake comes to mind, I won’t touch it. I told her I’d rather just watch her and her SJ roommate eat many times, but she insisted.

Thanks for the illuminating conversation, horsey. I obviously can't call you by your user. So nickname that reminds me of comforting visits to the petting zoo it is! I’d be so sad/devastated if no one replied…

Those darn me types, always shy and lurky. Just post something! It can be gibberish or full of grammatical errors. It’ll make me just as happy.
:laughing:

Since I don't really know all the details of the letter and situation I'll just say what I'd do in that sort of situation.
I'd feel really awkward getting a letter that was "strongly expressive". On the inside I'd either get a warm-fuzzy feeling about it, a sinking feeling in my stomach, or both. Even if I'd been deeply touched/moved by your letter I'd never say anything to you and I may even avoid the subject all together. I hate expressing/talking about emotions at all especially in person, if I do say anything about the letter don't expect me to give a long speech about it, it probably will be brief and to the point. But that doesn't mean I don't care, it's just awkward for me and I really don't know what you'd expect from me after something like that. I won't know if you'd want me to write you back, talk to you about it, or pretend like it never happened.

By the way, I love the ‘stick in the mud’ bit. Great way to introduce levity into this issue of tension.

I already spent the painstaking time to write it, edit it a few times, and transfer ½ of it onto a page of my journal stationary already. Do you really think I’d let my weak side stop me?

I don’t respect boundaries well. Someone on this forum said that INFP’s treat their friends like great loves, and their loves like there is no tomorrow. I think you can figure out my position on this statement.

Ooh, must be my lucky day. Thanks, Nancy Drew, for the first person perspective. As for the contents, it’s just me being my usual self, making self-deprecating comments, reassuring a lot, apologizing excessively. I hear you guys need that in order to believe it. I send mixed signals, but couldn’t you sorta tell I’d want you to talk to me about it some more? I’m the feely type, as indicated by the letter, remember?

They'd probably prefer to talk in person.

Nancy Drew said:

Since I don't really know all the details of the letter and situation I'll just say what I'd do in that sort of situation.
I'd feel really awkward getting a letter that was "strongly expressive". On the inside I'd either get a warm-fuzzy feeling about it, a sinking feeling in my stomach, or both. Even if I'd been deeply touched/moved by your letter I'd never say anything to you and I may even avoid the subject all together. I hate expressing/talking about emotions at all especially in person, if I do say anything about the letter don't expect me to give a long speech about it, it probably will be brief and to the point. But that doesn't mean I don't care, it's just awkward for me and I really don't know what you'd expect from me after something like that. I won't know if you'd want me to write you back, talk to you about it, or pretend like it never happened.

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See? I'm awesome at understanding people!

ND, I don’t understand! (For your information, I’m going to treat you as if you were her and play the scene out. Sorry, if it’s aggressive and scarily intense. Thanks for the insight. It’ll help me prep for the real thing.)

Why don’t you embrace emotion? In person, I would almost certainly beam at you and feel so connected and insanely happy. But if you ignored it, I’d think you chucked it out with the empty milk carton. Or would you keep something like this, hidden away in a drawer? Does it touch you that someone like me cares for you so much? You have an F for crying out loud… How does that work in combination with SJ?

Don’t you think I’m a person too? I have soul like you do…

Awkward, why do you care what I think about you? I don’t expect an exact response. Any will do. I just want to see who you are, and I can’t if you’re stilted. How do I know if you care if your body language says you don’t. That’s the same message I’d receive if you really didn’t care. And I already have an inferiority complex, so I’d go with the latter interpretation.

assbiscuits said:

See? I'm awesome at understanding people!

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You bet! :wink: Why, did you fake it and get lucky? Some high quality bull-shit there, eh?

I'm just messing with you. :laughing:

No, in person would be too theatrical for her. I was shouting at her in the middle of a thunderstorm on a street corner the other day, (not what I need to apologize for, btw), and she didn't like the looks it was attracting. Although I only saw one girl in the corner of my eye who was intently focused on the drama playing out. I don't know what the big deal was...

mintyphoenix said:

Ooh, must be my lucky day. Thanks, Nancy Drew, for the first person perspective. As for the contents, it’s just me being my usual self, making self-deprecating comments, reassuring a lot, apologizing excessively. I hear you guys need that in order to believe it. I send mixed signals, but couldn’t you sorta tell I’d want you to talk to me about it some more? I’m the feely type, as indicated by the letter, remember?

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Well, I actually wouldn't say that I need all that to believe you. At times it can help me believe you're sincere, at others it hurts more than it helps.

I honestly probably wouldn't be able to tell that you'd want to talk about it more. I mean you got all your feelings out in the letter, what else is there to say? At least those would be my thoughts. All that would be left is a little closure like me saying I forgive you or something simple like that.

mintyphoenix said:

ND, I don’t understand! (For your information, I’m going to treat you as if you were her and play the scene out. Sorry, if it’s aggressive and scarily intense. Thanks for the insight. It’ll help me prep for the real thing.)

Why don’t you embrace emotion? In person, I would almost certainly beam at you and feel so connected and insanely happy. But if you ignored it, I’d think you chucked it out with the empty milk carton. Or would you keep something like this, hidden away in a drawer? Does it touch you that someone like me cares for you so much? You have an F for crying out loud… How does that work in combination with SJ?

Don’t you think I’m a person too? I have soul like you do…

Awkward, why do you care what I think about you? I don’t expect an exact response. Any will do. I just want to see who you are, and I can’t if you’re stilted. How do I know if you care if your body language says you don’t. That’s the same message I’d receive if you really didn’t care. And I already have an inferiority complex, so I’d go with the latter interpretation.

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Whoa, are writing something like this to her or is this directed at me? I'm confused.

Nancy Drew said:

Whoa, are writing something like this to her or is this directed at me? I'm confused.

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Oh no, I'm pretending you are her, and she said what you said in your post. And I'm just layering it over with a reaction. I won't like it much if she doesn't address it, like you insinuated would be your method of action. So I'm trying to understand why, so I don't get frustrated or bottle it up and blow up.

Don't be offended. *is worried* You seem like a very thoughtful person to be helping me with my problems. It's very generous and noble of you.

mintyphoenix said:

Oh no, I'm pretending you are her, and she said what you said in your post. And I'm just layering it over with a reaction. I won't like it much if she doesn't address it, like you insinuated would be your method of action. So I'm trying to understand why, so I don't get frustrated or bottle it up and blow up.

Don't be offended. *is worried* You seem like a very thoughtful person to be helping me with my problems. It's very generous and noble of you.

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Oh, I think I get it. And don't worry I wasn't offended, just a little confused. I'm going to try this again.

mintyphoenix said:

ND, I don’t understand! (For your information, I’m going to treat you as if you were her and play the scene out. Sorry, if it’s aggressive and scarily intense. Thanks for the insight. It’ll help me prep for the real thing.)

Why don’t you embrace emotion? In person, I would almost certainly beam at you and feel so connected and insanely happy. But if you ignored it, I’d think you chucked it out with the empty milk carton. Or would you keep something like this, hidden away in a drawer? Does it touch you that someone like me cares for you so much? You have an F for crying out loud… How does that work in combination with SJ?

Wow, I'm not actually sure why I don't openly express my emotions. I guess I never thought about it. Expressing my emotions just doesn't come naturally for me. I have no idea how to just let my feelings go and it's a mystery to me how others do it so freely.
Maybe I'm afraid if I let my feelings go, it'll attract too much attention to myself, people will look at me differently, I'll feel even more vulnerable, I think I'll be bugging people with my own problems, I think I can handle my own problems, I think people will look down on me, people should just know how I'm feeling/thinking if they've known me long enough, etc. Maybe it's a mix of these or maybe it's none at all. I really have no idea why it's so hard for me, it just is.
I would be really touched to know that someone took all the time and effort to write me a letter, in fact I have a collection of all the letters and cards people have given me over the years. They're all tucked away either in my special memory box thing or on my bookshelf. Whenever I'm feeling down I can read one of the letters and I feel a little better.

Don’t you think I’m a person too? I have soul like you do…

Of course you are. It hurts me that you think that just because I see/do things differently than you think that I'm degrading you. I'm not doing that at all, I know that you're a person too and I try to treat people the best I can.

Awkward, why do you care what I think about you? I don’t expect an exact response. Any will do. I just want to see who you are, and I can’t if you’re stilted.

Well, I don't really care if you think I'm awkward, I just hate to feel that way. But I do care about what you think of me. Especially because you put all this time, thought, and effort into a letter for me. I want you to think well of me. I want to show you how thankful I was for your letter, but I don't know how to put it into words and express how happy I really was to get your letter. I'm afraid my response to your letter wouldn't live up to the letter itself and I'd disappoint you.

How do I know if you care if your body language says you don’t. That’s the same message I’d receive if you really didn’t care. And I already have an inferiority complex, so I’d go with the latter interpretation.

For some reason I sorta hope that if you really are my friend you can read my mind, you'll be able to just know how I'm feeling. I do have body language it's just more subtle then most, it's not very obvious, you have to really know me to get it.

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I put what I think/how I feel in bold above. I hope it makes a little sense, I know I can be confusing at times, so please tell me if you don't understand something or want me to explain something better.:happy:

Wow, that was really great and helpful. Thank you, truly.

So I finally took it to her. It was a 50/50 between ripping it up and that, but what you said made the choice clear.

It didn't go as well as I'd hoped. I planned it to be stealth and undercover, but it was such a weird coincidence... But in the confusion, I managed to get out of there quick, with my dignity intact. I'm not going to stand there while it's read. I guess it's a good thing though. I don't feel right keeping any sort of feeling to myself and bottled up.

I'll be honest, this whole thread is kind of confusing to me. You're saying so many things, going off in so many different directions, that I can't quite figure out exactly what you're looking for or what you expect. It doesn't help that I don't know the details of the situation, since it's all been kind of vague so far. But I'll still take a stab at this.

(In addition, I think in general female/female friendships are different than male/male or male/female ones, and that might be adding to my confusion as well as limiting how useful any advice I have to offer is. But I can still try, take it for what it's worth).

mintyphoenix said:

ND, I don’t understand! (For your information, I’m going to treat you as if you were her and play the scene out. Sorry, if it’s aggressive and scarily intense. Thanks for the insight. It’ll help me prep for the real thing.)

Why don’t you embrace emotion? In person, I would almost certainly beam at you and feel so connected and insanely happy. But if you ignored it, I’d think you chucked it out with the empty milk carton. Or would you keep something like this, hidden away in a drawer? Does it touch you that someone like me cares for you so much? You have an F for crying out loud… How does that work in combination with SJ?

Don’t you think I’m a person too? I have soul like you do…

Awkward, why do you care what I think about you? I don’t expect an exact response. Any will do. I just want to see who you are, and I can’t if you’re stilted. How do I know if you care if your body language says you don’t. That’s the same message I’d receive if you really didn’t care. And I already have an inferiority complex, so I’d go with the latter interpretation.

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Here's the biggest problem I see...it seems like you're expecting her to be exactly like you, and that's where a lot of this clashing comes into play. Even though you've known her a year, you're expecting her to open her soul to you, to let out all of her emotions to you, to tell you everything about her....it sounds like you're not respecting her own wishes

In turn, this may cause her to do the exact same thing to you, just from the opposite direction. She's not being accepting of you for who you are, and this is creating friction and making things more difficult for the two of you.


So it sounds like to me that both of you need to just accept the other for who they are...and since you're the one who seems so concerned about the friendship, you probably need to kick start it.

It's like the whole acting goofy in public thing. If you want her to accept the fact that you're like that, you need to accept the fact that she's not. You should let her know that it's just a part of who you are...you're free-natured and just like letting go. But at the same time, you need to reassure her that you understand that she's not like that, and that there's nothing wrong with that. (Don't call her a "stick in the mud" until you have a really strong friendship and she knows that it's all kidding in good fun...if she doesn't know that, she'll take it as a judgment that you don't approve of her, and it will just cause more friction and irritation).


Don't try to force her to embrace emotion just because it makes you feel good. Don't force her to tell you everything when she's not ready to.


ISFJ's tend to like to take their time in getting to know someone, trusting them, and forming a strong relationship. We like to be very committed to our friendships, and that's why we're so cautious to form them. We want to completely trust someone, and to know that they completely accept us for who we are. When we feel judged by others, it tells us we're not good enough, and it makes us shut people out.


So basically, don't judge her, and don't rush her into doing what you want her to do. Just take your time, show your support and acceptance of her, and be patient. If you do this for her, eventually she'll come around and open up to you. Don't try to make her be just like you.


If you do this, it will help her to trust you, and eventually accept and appreciate the things about you that are different than her. Then the friendship will become stronger.

It probably wasn't a good idea to ignore her phone call immediately after the charged encounter. I can't deal with things so imminently. I was in the midst of my get away.

I don't have any information to fall back on, in this scenario. My INTJ friend just calls and calls and calls every few hours until I do see my phone flashing and pick it up. But I have no idea if I can call. I have a phobia of talking on phones, it would seem. I need face to face interaction so I can pick up on all of the other signals, like body language and eye contact. Plus, this is just horrendously embarrassing in retrospect. And I'm sure I will easily avoid her... But it's grating on my nerves. How did she feel when she read it? Did she tear it into a million little pieces and toss it out the window, a great metaphor for the burden I impose on her?

I guess I shouldn't tell her my real problems... Like the voices and the demented dreams... :crying: