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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, i've been typed as 1 since 2016, and it's astonishing that the main type hasn't changed since. But recently, some people here and on discord have suggested ideas such as this one that have caused me to doubt my classification.

@Arrogantly Grateful (please offer any insights) suggested that i could be a type 7 disintegrating to 1, and that some of the tendencies i list below are common in Sensing types that use Ti.

I typed myself as 1 because i am:
  • perfectionistic, always wanting to make things as polished as they can be
  • extremely detailed and can't stand small mistakes such as spelling and punctuation errors
  • strongly principled, more stubborn about doing what i believe is right than a lot of people i know
  • Usually on-time, disciplined, almost never miss deadlines, a responsible student the teachers love - all because i know that education is important to me and my future
  • irritable most of the time
  • WAY TOO CRITICAL (see, i'm criticizing myself right now. I can't stop it!!)
  • constantly in conflict with others who are less disciplined than i am because i can't stop criticizing

I am still ESTP because of my spontaneity in everyday life (not involving projects i freak out about) and the fact that i'm not actually that organized...i just pressure myself to be. In reality, i'm much better adapting as i go. Right now i am writing an essay and doing research while i'm writing, 2 days before it is due.

None of this is going to sound overly positive because i know i am for sure NOT integrating into any type. Lately i have just started to realize why i ran into "troubled" people all the time and the fact that how my parents treated me was not good parenting. Thus, i have been in a negative or neutral state for most of my life.

(Except that time between December 2016 and March 2017 when i forced myself to be positive and ignore bad things and at one point i just exploded, and until now i've been terribly pessimistic and in a generally irritable mood.)

So, there's the negativity. I could as well be disintegrating into every Enneagram type, i'm so pissed. Or is it just the type 1 nature to be irritable about things similar to the things that have happened to me?

What do you think, kind strangers of the internet?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
@danthemanklein @ENIGMA15 feel free to offer your thoughts too, any contribution would help :)

And for Arrogantly Grateful, you don't have to talk so much in detail about this if you don't want to, i just scrolled through the thread we discussed this in. I'd appreciate some input about integration/disintegration but if you don't wish to discuss this in depth, you don't have to.
 

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@danthemanklein @ENIGMA15 feel free to offer your thoughts too, any contribution would help :)

And for Arrogantly Grateful, you don't have to talk so much in detail about this if you don't want to, i just scrolled through the thread we discussed this in. I'd appreciate some input about integration/disintegration but if you don't wish to discuss this in depth, you don't have to.
I dabble in enneagram so, I am not going to be much help.

It does sound as if you are in a funk. As far as personality type, it sounds like your shadow functions are in full swing. A lot of the things you describe remind me of an INFJ I know. She is very much like that. Do you have any physical activities you are currently, doing?
 

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Yeah. I noticed the stress as well. I also notice that most ESTP come to social media and internet sites when they're under stress. I have gone years without worrying about myself or trying to dive into my own psyche ... Only when I'm bored or when I am stressed. Soul searching for our type is either to best the boredom or solve some irl problem ... Or even just find clues to solving it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I dabble in enneagram so, I am not going to be much help.

It does sound as if you are in a funk. As far as personality type, it sounds like your shadow functions are in full swing. A lot of the things you describe remind me of an INFJ I know. She is very much like that. Do you have any physical activities you are currently, doing?
Which shadow functions in particular? I thought INFJ functions were ESTP conscious functions but backwards. And a lot of problems i described were related to enneagram type 1, which matches a lot of INFJ tendencies, in case you were wondering.

I play soccer/football every week, and i always walk/bike to and from school. After all my school work is done i bike or walk around the neighbourhood as well, sometimes play football with my boyfriend.

That's about it, thanks :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeah. I noticed the stress as well. I also notice that most ESTP come to social media and internet sites when they're under stress. I have gone years without worrying about myself or trying to dive into my own psyche ... Only when I'm bored or when I am stressed. Soul searching for our type is either to best the boredom or solve some irl problem ... Or even just find clues to solving it.
It's not a very ESTP thing to do, investigate their own psyches on the internet. But as a lot of people turn to the internet for help and advice when stressed, i guess ESTPs are okay with that. I'm not the kind to dive THIS deeply into something, even if it's a system the Ti would love, unless i need to solve some problems.

Yeah, most of the time you just get clues. Solutions i'm stressed over enough to be asking all over the internet for are not straightforward solutions.
 

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Which shadow functions in particular? I thought INFJ functions were ESTP conscious functions but backwards. And a lot of problems i described were related to enneagram type 1, which matches a lot of INFJ tendencies, in case you were wondering.

I play soccer/football every week, and i always walk/bike to and from school. After all my school work is done i bike or walk around the neighbourhood as well, sometimes play football with my boyfriend.

That's about it, thanks :)
I was not wondering : ) A ton of ones are INXJ. That is why I asked you previously, if you think you handle things differently because of it. My daughter is an INTJ- 1 : )

I have at one point or another exhibited a lot of what you listed in my younger years. You sounds active just as I was. But, I also think (in teen years) it depends on what types you are surrounded by. Family and friends.

The INFJ that I was referring to when stressed is fly by the seat of her pants with no regards to the outcome. It has caused many issues and she later beats herself up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I was not wondering : ) A ton of ones are INXJ. That is why I asked you previously, if you think you handle things differently because of it. My daughter is an INTJ- 1 : )

I have at one point or another exhibited a lot of what you listed in my younger years. You sounds active just as I was. But, I also think (in teen years) it depends on what types you are surrounded by. Family and friends.

The INFJ that I was referring to when stressed is fly by the seat of her pants with no regards to the outcome. It has caused many issues and she later beats herself up.
Oh, i must have forgotten to look at that. Introverted intuition has always seemed like the least comprehensible function for me and i don't know how i would ever use it to my advantage - most of the time i get very bad insights into the future, if they're accurate at all, and i just genuinely hate the future with passion. Now that you've brought it up, it seems that i've been using type 1 methods in negative ways just as i've been using Ni negatively, except the type 1 stuff i do more often. That's an interesting notion.

However, you were talking about shadow functions, so i got confused there. Shadow functions for ESTP are Si-Te-Fi-Ne, and you were talking about Ni, which is the inferior. What did you mean by that? Did you get the vocab wrong or did i misinterpret something?

Ah, she sounds like she's been using Se in a negative way. She has the impulsiveness but not the ability to grab opportunities in the moment and enjoy the Se, etc etc. Beating herself up sounds more like type 1 than misusing Se.

Are you suggesting that it's possible that my inferior Ni is acting up and triggering negative, 1-like responses?
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I still learn to spell enneagram but reading this it is now clear to me why you use that username. It was your subconscious at work.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-priebe/2016/01/mbti-and-the-enneagram-2/4/

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I went to the main page and it said over 3000 people participated, yet only 21 were ESTPs, haha. I doubt that the ESTP stats would be accurate, with a larger sample you may get a little more 7s than 8s, or maybe more 6w7s, etc.

Sorry, i don't know what you're referring to as the subconscious. Nothing on that page is directly related to subconscious processes, functions or no functions. Are you referring to the type 7 desire to be bold and rule-breaking? And (forgive my lack of healthy intuition) i don't see how my post can be related to using a jokingly political name :p

Thanks for the link though, that has lots of useful information about other types i've been trying to gather for years.
 
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I went to the main page and it said over 3000 people participated, yet only 21 were ESTPs, haha. I doubt that the ESTP stats would be accurate, with a larger sample you may get a little more 7s than 8s, or maybe more 6w7s, etc.

Sorry, i don't know what you're referring to as the subconscious. Nothing on that page is directly related to subconscious processes, functions or no functions. Are you referring to the type 7 desire to be bold and rule-breaking? And (forgive my lack of healthy intuition) i don't see how my post can be related to using a jokingly political name

Thanks for the link though, that has lots of useful information about other types i've been trying to gather for years.
Even without survey data you must already realized yourself that intuitively 1 is rare while 7 and 8 will be more common, right?

And the fact that you dig a bit deeper behind available data and use a politically joking name, there could be a background process, a subliminal conscious, that you are somehow different among your own flock.

You know, it also come to my realization, this forum had the capacity to form its own survey upon mbti and enneagram type. To help you prove your hypothesis that 7 will be little more than 8, for example. After all the article also based on self reporting assesment, no different. :wink:

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*smirks* Try going to the forum and checking it out that way :tongue: 21 whole people in 2016 :eek:h:
Yeah, i barely noticed that for estp kind the sample is much too low because usually I read the stats for the other types with plenty of samples. LoL.

As my reply above, why don't you use this subforum to measure your own type? Maybe you could have better stat.
 

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Why do you think you're a type 7? You haven't given anything to suggest it.

What you have provided does more like a type 1 than a disintegrating 7. 7s tend to be more flighty, and run away from things that might cause some form of distress or misery, and furthermore ensure they have many other options open so they're not limited in anyway. 1s would perceive all this as taking the easy way out, as being self-entitled to almost rejecting responsibilities.

1 and 7 are both types of frustration, alongside type 4. 1s are frustrated in relation to their perfectionism: they have one ideal and hold everything to its standards, and are thus in constant frustration that nothing can be perfect; it will take them a type 7 sense of security to understand that perfectionism is quite a dehumanising facet, because nobody is perfect, we're all susceptible to flaws and mistakes, which would make the 1 freer in their judgements and views of life. 7s, however, are frustrated with authority and anything that prevents them from being free: they're constantly on the lookout for adventure, which would make them more future orientated than present-minded; and even when they're having an adventure, their minds aren't even present to enjoy the experience, because it's elsewhere.

None of the enneatypes are particularly positives outlooks. All they indicate are predominating aspects to one's personality -- 'predominating' being the key word here. You genuinely need to do some introspection if you want to find your enneatype, because skim reading a few archetypes and getting others to compare you to them isn't going to help. The purpose in finding your type isn't to excuse your behaviour, such as, "Oh, it's OK that I do this, because I'm a type 7", but to become conscious of what's causing your suffering in life, so you can get a better understanding on how to conquer it, as it were.

I am still ESTP because of my spontaneity in everyday life (not involving projects i freak out about) and the fact that i'm not actually that organized...i just pressure myself to be. In reality, i'm much better adapting as i go. Right now i am writing an essay and doing research while i'm writing, 2 days before it is due.
This has nothing to do with being an ESTP. If that's your reasoning behind your MBTI, you've probably mistyped that, too. And if you want to make the process easier for you to find your enneatype, I suggest not overlapping Jung' cognitive functions. Leave the two theories independent.
 
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Yeah, i barely noticed that for estp kind the sample is much too low because usually I read the stats for the other types with plenty of samples. LoL.

As my reply above, why don't you use this subforum to measure your own type? Maybe you could have better stat.
I do not need to measure my own type....That is why : ) No concerns about stats either. I will leave that to you!:eek:h:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Even without survey data you must already realized yourself that intuitively 1 is rare while 7 and 8 will be more common, right?

And the fact that you dig a bit deeper behind available data and use a politically joking name, there could be a background process, a subliminal conscious, that you are somehow different among your own flock.

You know, it also come to my realization, this forum had the capacity to form its own survey upon mbti and enneagram type. To help you prove your hypothesis that 7 will be little more than 8, for example. After all the article also based on self reporting assesment, no different. :wink:

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It wasn't really intuitive at that point, after meeting a handful of ExxP types it's easy to see that most of them are not 1s. But good observation!

Thanks for clearing that up, maybe it is my subconscious being strange in the background. You're definitely not the first one to suggest it, so i'll be trying my best to keep tabs on that stuff. Ni things are like dreams to me, i never remember or understand them until it shoves a whole nightmare onto me and forces me to see the whole thing for once.

You can search in the members list, but it may not be accurate. Here's data someone gathered from the forum a few years back:


And here's a simplified version i made, putting all the separate wings into one main enneatype:



What do you think? Predictable?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Why do you think you're a type 7? You haven't given anything to suggest it.

What you have provided does more like a type 1 than a disintegrating 7. 7s tend to be more flighty, and run away from things that might cause some form of distress or misery, and furthermore ensure they have many other options open so they're not limited in anyway. 1s would perceive all this as taking the easy way out, as being self-entitled to almost rejecting responsibilities.
Whoops, forgot that. Some people were suggesting i was a disintegrating 7 and i just assumed everyone else would see why. Some of those 7 aspects sound like a younger version of myself, i used to be very flighty/avoidant due to some inner fear and later i became more disciplined. A lot of it is influenced by my parents, one being an unhealthy 6 and the other an unhealthy 1. The fear displayed by my dad translated into me wanting to look for positive experiences and joys because it was what i lacked, so i just kept running away from whatever scared me. And later i became rather pessimistic and judgmental.

1 and 7 are both types of frustration, alongside type 4. 1s are frustrated in relation to their perfectionism: they have one ideal and hold everything to its standards, and are thus in constant frustration that nothing can be perfect; it will take them a type 7 sense of security to understand that perfectionism is quite a dehumanising facet, because nobody is perfect, we're all susceptible to flaws and mistakes, which would make the 1 freer in their judgements and views of life. 7s, however, are frustrated with authority and anything that prevents them from being free: they're constantly on the lookout for adventure, which would make them more future orientated than present-minded; and even when they're having an adventure, their minds aren't even present to enjoy the experience, because it's elsewhere.

None of the enneatypes are particularly positives outlooks. All they indicate are predominating aspects to one's personality -- 'predominating' being the key word here. You genuinely need to do some introspection if you want to find your enneatype, because skim reading a few archetypes and getting others to compare you to them isn't going to help. The purpose in finding your type isn't to excuse your behaviour, such as, "Oh, it's OK that I do this, because I'm a type 7", but to become conscious of what's causing your suffering in life, so you can get a better understanding on how to conquer it, as it were.
It's interesting how 1 is in middle of that group, linking 7 and 4 in a frustration cycle. I like to use "central motivation" to describe Enneagram, because that's what it is - a person's innermost motivations, like the desire for validation (2), which causes them to act in a certain way, such as pleasing others in hope of reciprocation. (which is also something i talk about a lot, i absolutely hate it when people don't reciprocate clear dedication - may be my 2 wing)

This has nothing to do with being an ESTP. If that's your reasoning behind your MBTI, you've probably mistyped that, too. And if you want to make the process easier for you to find your enneatype, I suggest not overlapping Jung' cognitive functions. Leave the two theories independent.
Well, the dominant function of ExxP types are perceiving functions which means they prefer leaving options open in case better ones come down the road. I was procrastinating on my essay to see if there would be a time of day when i was more motivated to do it than in the present moment. Not an excuse, like you said. That was just me being stressed so please excuse any inaccuracies in that statement. And i was including the Jung functions to explain why i was confused about my own type, because ExxP types aren't often correlated with type 1 Enneagram. Why, Jung/Enneagram correlations are frequently discussed, there's no harm in comparing the two. But you're right about not getting them mixed up, because those are very different theories and mixing them up can cause a lot of confusion.
 
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It wasn't really intuitive at that point, after meeting a handful of ExxP types it's easy to see that most of them are not 1s.
Here is how my intuition works, just for your illustration. Read/observe -> learn -> analysis -> hypothesis -> visual imagination -> conclusion. All within my own head without having to really 'see the thing', it could be nice, but not necessary.

You can search in the members list, but it may not be accurate. Here's data someone gathered from the forum a few years back:

And here's a simplified version i made, putting all the separate wings into one main enneatype:

What do you think? Predictable?
The table does. Thanks for your effort, good job. Care to share the link?

But you aren't. Because your hypothetical statement: 'estp 7 will be more than 8' proved to be right after all and you seems to like spreadsheets quite a lot.

Which would make you a really unpredictable estp. 1w9? Go check your first row in your first table. You are an statistical error :laugh: :woot:
 

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Which shadow functions in particular? I thought INFJ functions were ESTP conscious functions but backwards. And a lot of problems i described were related to enneagram type 1, which matches a lot of INFJ tendencies, in case you were wondering.

I play soccer/football every week, and i always walk/bike to and from school. After all my school work is done i bike or walk around the neighbourhood as well, sometimes play football with my boyfriend.

That's about it, thanks :)
Ok lady, I have time to respond : ) We run in reverse with INFJs so, that is what I was referring to. I do not think you are in a grip???...I could be wrong. It is very hard to tell online unless, it is bad and we explode, whether it be an emotional out pour (foreign)or anger=easier. You said you do not comprehend Ni, so anyway, guess that narrows out the possible INFJ operating in shadow. Personally, no matter how anyone describes it, IMO INFJ is the shadow(dark if submersed). Yin to the yang.

P.S. The INFJ I was talking about is very much how, you explain you are. But, like I said, I was overly, organized and more critical of myself in my younger year but, that was because, of my parents influence (almost OCD tendencies). I felt free outside of the house. I wanted to make them happy/proud??? Until, the switch flipped.

I also, had to try and do a memory recall on a young ESTP talking about the flip flop of the shadow experience...


I am not sure if any of this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here is how my intuition works, just for your illustration. Read/observe -> learn -> analysis -> hypothesis -> visual imagination -> conclusion. All within my own head without having to really 'see the thing', it could be nice, but not necessary.
Is your intuition always that linear? I've been trying to understand my Ni through things i've written in the past, and it seems to happen in short bursts of realization. What you described sounds a bit like Ti, i think, because that works more like perceive -> dissect -> analyze -> compare with internal ideas -> conclusion. Ti is how i got through elementary math without using sticks to count past 10 XD

The table does. Thanks for your effort, good job. Care to share the link?

But you aren't. Because your hypothetical statement: 'estp 7 will be more than 8' proved to be right after all and you seems to like spreadsheets quite a lot.

Which would make you a really unpredictable estp. 1w9? Go check your first row in your first table. You are an statistical error :laugh: :woot:
Just to clarify, the larger table wasn't made by me. These data points were collected at different times and i did my chart in Nov 2015, which you'll find on page 9 of this thread (first chart is on page 7):

https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...ram-type-mbti-type-compared-statistics-7.html

Oh yeah, and i'm 1w2 btw. Yes, when i collected the data years back i put myself as ESFJ with either 9w8, 2w3 or 1, so ESTP 1w2 and 1w9 had 0 people :tongue: I love being a statistical error though XD
 
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