[jd_]

I was hypothesizing, and started wondering if I even had an understanding of Ti. Ti it seems is where I would need to put something logical together, like doing a math problem. However, in other classes, or juts getting by in life... is it possible to just use Ni solely to come to conclusions? Especially in classes such as Philosophy/History/English and things of that nature, i.e. writing essays in the abstract about them.
I was busy pondering and I was thinking about the whole Ni/Ti connection, and I'm not even sure I'm using Ti at all, but maybe just pure Ni the whole time and getting by with that without much studying whatsoever. As I recall, I generally hated classes which were "memorization" oriented and multiple choice exams, where as I can piece together a vivid essay almost naturally, while it might not be *perfect* it's pretty damn close.
One of my most hated classes was Accounting, largely b/c I think it implored the use of Ti and prior I had been getting by with almost pure Ni.

I find my natural state is *contemplation/pondering* and not so much *thinking/tinkering*

Anyway, I am just trying to delineate the difference between Ni and Ti. I was thinking I might have overstepped the Fe part and gone into a Ni/Ti loop in my development, but now I'm thinking it's possible I never really used Ti much at all, just stayed in Ni world to solve my issues and come up with ideas, mostly using my somewhat unconscious inferior Se.

When I am reading these descriptions of "thinking" ... it doesn't really sound like my thought process whatsoever.

So it could very well be I got by with almost pure Ni up to about the time I was 25...then I started to develop my Fe and wonder "is what I'm doing serving a greater purpose, I need to do something more purposeful and useful"

I have been posting a bit in the INTJ forum for about a week to bounce ideas off folks, and it seems the biggest difference is our "job choices." ... The job choices they seem to like seem completely irrelevant to me, lots of people working in corporate environments, law firms, engineering firms. All of which I would feel like I am just doing a "job" ...and it is hard for me to reconcile just doing a job for the sake of income. In fact I think I've narrowed it down to only a few things I could see myself doing, being a university professor in philosophy *to teach society* or being a journalist *to help/teach society* ... I'm running out of options and have been on about a 3-4 year "contemplation crisis" about what am I here for.

Does Fe serve as a motivating factor? Meaning, does Fe better predict your job you are likely to choose?

Also I don't see myself as much of a people person, are other INFJ's "people persons". I am all about equality, but I am still pretty introverted.

In many ways, my current thought on the matter is that my preferred job roles or positions from an outside standpoint, seem to line up more with say, INFPs... The problem is, I don't think I actually THINK like them at all and generally all the threads on there are far too touchy/feely and boring. I can relate to INTJ's and how they think about things, and like their discussion topics, the problem is when it's time to do something, I often disagree.

thanks in advance.
thoughts?

 

[Anubis]

I see what you mean. One of the hardest parts about typing myself was the fact that I live so purely by my intuition and in turn my Se is supremely inferior. It's now easy for me to understand that I'm INFJ, but it has also been bugging me because I don't seem to use Fe unless I'm manipulating or something... I mean I care about people, but I just want to fix their problems, not sympathize.

I'm anxious to see what some of the people who are more adept at functions say.

 

[jd_]

I see what you mean. One of the hardest parts about typing myself was the fact that I live so purely by my intuition and in turn my Se is supremely inferior. It's now easy for me to understand that I'm INFJ, but it has also been bugging me because I don't seem to use Fe unless I'm manipulating or something... I mean I care about people, but I just want to fix their problems, not sympathize.

I'm anxious to see what some of the people who are more adept at functions say.

That is how I feel also, I don't have that burst of emotions usually, my emotions are usually quite stoic and under control. It's hard for me to react strongly to external objects/events, but I do realize when other people are hurting.

I started getting away from the Ti thinking b/c many of them say it is more like if this (x and y), then situation A, then situation B, therefore that. That is not how I think at all. My thinking is more like ... pondering for awhile, think of possibilities, here is the answer. Why is that the answer? Eh... do you reallly need me to explain it to you? It is right isn't it? And to back this up from type theory "The process that plays the leading role is the one that usually develops early in childhood. We tend to engage in this process first, trusting it to solve our problems and help us be successful. "
So according to that, Ni should be able to solve problems by itself, for the most part, at least that is the first method we would hone in on to try to solve it.

Basically, my new conclusion is that the Ti is not necessary to solve problems, Ni can solve problems just by itself and come to answers. Ti of course would be necessary for say, writing a math equation... but most things in life need not be so precise, especially in the humanities where a more broad ambiguity might be the preferred outcome, in math, the general "path" to how are you going to solve it (conceptualizing) need not be Ti until you actually run the numbers.


Also,

if the Auxillary function can be seen as a "motivator" or how they are using this power on the world ...then that would imply certain dimensions to type. I'm not saying it is, but I have read it is, and it somewhat makes sense.

Therefore.

INFJ... they would have this big idea abstract construction in their head the Ni, then their motivating factor would be to share this idea onto things concerning people for 'their' benefit (Fe). And why an Ni gone awry could produce a dystopian Ni world, hence a Hitler. Or on the other side, a Plato with his world of forms. Let's just hope the inner 'supporting tertiary function' Ti backs it up a bit, so it actually might work efficiently.

INTJ... they would also have this big idea of abstarct construction, yet they would want to enact this on to the physical world of things to accomplish things, hence the "will it work". Hence often new scientific discoveries. Whether it benefits humanity or not might be arbritary for them, let's just hope their core values 'supporting tertiary function' Fi starts backing them up, less they step on others toes.

INFP... they would have an inner core of feelings and values, and want to act this on to an Ne world of infinite possibilities, which might not line up with reality, hence the label of idealist.

INTP... would have an inner core of pure thinking, and also want to act this out on an Ne world of infinite possibilities, hence the thinker and not the "doer" necessarily. But possibility creating somebody like Einstein able to construct an entirely new world from nothing.

Does any of that make sense?

 

[Anubis]

That is how I feel also, I don't have that burst of emotions usually, my emotions are usually quite stoic and under control. It's hard for me to react strongly to external objects/events, but I do realize when other people are hurting.

I started getting away from the Ti thinking b/c many of them say it is more like if this (x and y), then situation A, then situation B, therefore that. That is not how I think at all. My thinking is more like ... pondering for awhile, think of possibilities, here is the answer. Why is that the answer? Eh... do you reallly need me to explain it to you? It is right isn't it?

Basically, my new conclusion is that the Ti is not necessary to solve problems, Ni can solve problems just by itself and come to answers.

Exactly, I believe that's Ni when we just have answers for things with no explanations. I would love to just live life by pure Ni, but our Se is ridiculously underdeveloped (at least for me)

Have you looked into Te? Maybe you're an INTJ? Because I know my auxiliary is Fe, I just don't trust it much.

 

[psynite]

Ti comes into play when you are trying to create an order out of what your Ni comes up with. Ni very non-linear and the Ti and Fe help make it presentable to the world.

 

[Ntuitive]

I used Ni dominant all throughout college. I relate to just about everything you're saying. I realized that I've been using shadow functions as INFJ for the past several years when really I'm naturally ENFP. I've been pretty quiet for much of my life and not much of a people person. I can be pretty social though. I was really social and some what of a risk taker/show off up until around college. As soon as I get a chance to use Ne when I'm around other people who are similar or appreciate my humor, it becomes my absolute dominate way of expressing myself. My Fe was one of the last things I developed too. But it really doesn't make sense to develop it so late if it's an Auxiliary function. I've just been alone most of the time and under stress so I haven't been using Ne. That's just my personal experience.

 

[jd_]

Interesting, well I was in college up until around that time and just mostly studying, 25 was about the 2 year mark into the real world. Now, I'm back in school for something else, somewhat of my preferred mode

I found this and it seems to back up what I was trying to say... especially in bold.

Less developed INFJs may see little need to use or develop their Ti. Since their Intuition provides them with strong feedback about what is or isn’t true, taking an additional step to Ti may seem unnecessary. With time and maturity, however, INFJs grow increasingly more comfortable with their Ti and come to recognize and appreciate its inherent value. Ti helps INFJs think more critically and analytically, acts as an aid and check to their Ni-Fe, and helps them discern where their ideas might fit into existing categories and frameworks of knowledge.

INFJs who have honed their Ti can work side-by-side with Thinking types, capable of analyzing and classifying their theories according to the objective standards of a given field. Such individuals are often drawn to academia, research, or scholarship, making scientists, philosophers, and scholars of the highest order.

What INFJs may perceive as a negative or difficult feature of their Ti is its tendency to generate self-doubt. As Ti butts up against the insights offered by their Ni, INFJs may temporarily distrust their most cherished and utilized mode of knowing—their Intuition. But personal growth is never easy, not for any type. With time, INFJs settle into a healthy balance between their Ni and Ti, intuitively knowing how to apply their Ti without spoiling the delicious insights proffered by their Intuition."


And...

"Fe types (i.e., FJs) focus much of their time and energy on social, moral, or humanitarian concerns, with special concern for their family and closest friends."

Now, that developed in me quitting my cushy job and doing volunteer work overseas, a polar opposite career change, as well as moving back so I could be closer to my family. But no, this didn't really occur to me until my mid 20's I don't think.

As well as here...

"Phase I (childhood-20s)

Early in life, INFJs are characterized by the development and dominance of their Introverted Intuition (Ni)."

I think my Ni Dominance and relatively late development of Fe could have to do with me being an only child raised by a single parent, and always being in gifted/ap classes in h.s. and honors program in college, so I just didn't have that much association with people due to small class sizes and my academic inclinations. Admittedly, I was a bit sheltered.

 

[Aizar]

About half of what you just did there is Ti.

Ni gathers information. Fe or Ti processes the information Ni gathered. For INFJs, Ti is the exacting function. It's what you use when you categorize purple from violet, and pick out what attributes makes something purple and what makes it violet. It's a razor blade of logic.

Fe, on the other hand, goes broader. It's more of a "ask other people what they think" function, and then "pull all those opinions together and stitch them up until they make good sense to me". That's not to say it always goes the way of the crowd though--especially with Ni, Fe goes even broader than just the people the Fe-user is interacting with, thinking back to past interactions, and forward to what future interactions might look like, if a certain action is taken in the present. It also cares mostly for the feelings (unlike Te, which looks at more practical facts). Fe takes its best reasons for acting one way or another by how strongly people feel about it.

 

[nonnaci]

I now see Ni as more of a spontaneous categorization of concepts that emerges in a number of forms from symbols to the categories themselves. Ti is more like the formation of hard edges (cognizant connections) between concepts through a set of "subjective logic" that you're aware of. This is why Ti can explain itself although it will come out very dry and axiomatic depending on the set of logic rules (Also why pure mathematics is so dry as these theorists have internalized "pure symbolic logic" as subjective logic, or philosophers with their prepositional stuff).

That being said, the distinction is more on the spontaneity of apperception (Ni) v.s. the cognizant use of subjective logic to form connections between concepts (Ti). I for one have now realized that I've developed Ti-Ni in a roughly 70/10 fashion due to the lack of extraversion. The best way I can describe it is that if there's a gap in my subjective logic (a connection that I wish to form between 2 concepts but can't make it via my conscious mechanisms), then Ni will spontaneously provide an answer (often a visual) that is a categorization of the 2 concepts. The Ti will internalize the categorization into its subjective logic hence giving "visual component" to its tool-kit. e.g. most linear algebra I see in terms of geometric transformations of space and vectors themselves.

The ways I trick Se (remaining 20%) into effectively working with Ti is to use it as a scratch pad via putting down spontaneous thoughts/images that I see onto a visual medium (paper) to feedback into Ti as Se will internalize visual information quite well (e.g. writing this for example). Its also why Ti-Ni is quite adept at "creative writing" in the esoteric sense.

However, make no mistake that most of my processing is a conscious will and so the Ni will only come up (differentiate) when I need to make a leap that I normally cannot make. I find that the best way Ti-Ni manifest itself is through critical reading (philosophy, classics).

 

[jd_]

I now see Ni as more of a spontaneous categorization of concepts that emerges in a number of forms from symbols to the categories themselves. Ti is more like the formation of hard edges (cognizant connections) between concepts through a set of "subjective logic" that you're aware of. This is why Ti can explain itself although it will come out very dry and axiomatic depending on the set of logic rules (Also why pure mathematics is so dry as these theorists have internalized "pure symbolic logic" as subjective logic, or philosophers with their prepositional stuff).

That being said, the distinction is more on the spontaneity of apperception (Ni) v.s. the cognizant use of subjective logic to form connections between concepts (Ti). I for one have now realized that I've developed Ti-Ni in a roughly 70/10 fashion due to the lack of extraversion. The best way I can describe it is that if there's a gap in my subjective logic (a connection that I wish to form between 2 concepts but can't make it via my conscious mechanisms), then Ni will spontaneously provide an answer (often a visual) that is a categorization of the 2 concepts. The Ti will internalize the categorization into its subjective logic hence giving "visual component" to its tool-kit. e.g. most linear algebra I see in terms of geometric transformations of space and vectors themselves.

The ways I trick Se (remaining 20%) into effectively working with Ti is to use it as a scratch pad via putting down spontaneous thoughts/images that I see onto a visual medium (paper) to feedback into Ti as Se will internalize visual information quite well (e.g. writing this for example). Its also why Ti-Ni is quite adept at "creative writing" in the esoteric sense.

However, make no mistake that most of my processing is a conscious will and so the Ni will only come up (differentiate) when I need to make a leap that I normally cannot make. I find that the best way Ti-Ni manifest itself is through critical reading (philosophy, classics).

Interesting... I was thinking the same thing, that is about the only things I read. If it is too easy to read, I often don't even enjoy it. This is what scares me a bit about my thoughts of doing journalism, that I'll have a hard time simplifying my writing for a broad user base. Though, it could prove a challenge to make my writing more concise when necessary.
I also know exactly what you mean about "creative" writing... It might be creative, but that doesn't mean it evokes feeling for other readers, which is what I find many users want, to feel "sensation" and "feelings"...when my writing tends to be more abstract, metaphorical and under the surface.