Personality Cafe banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
INFP 4w5 469 tritype
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all, I know that my type is on the Fi-Te axis and recently I’ve been learning more about different judging axis. I don’t fully understand Ti and Ni, or the Fi-Te / Te-Fi axes but I wonder how much Ti / Ni is in me. I will try my best to list the points that relate to how I think and make decisions and hopefully the more experienced among you can help me understand whether I am very typical of an Fi-Te user. If you use a different judging axis, I would like to know in what ways it’s different.

1. My natural desire is to analyze and conclude rather than understand. I am frustrated with too many loose ends and indirect language and would prefer that I know what the other person is thinking / where they stand so I can determine my own, based off of my own ideals.

2. I am not very interested in “hard” philosophy / deeply intellectual / scientific topics for its own sake. I have no interest in mainstream academia or the idea of academia in general. I don’t read any hard philosophy books and don’t think my ideas can be entirely boxed into one school of thought. Instead, I only believe these studies and back and forth discussions are meaningful if applied mostly to human issues (the ones that matter to me), as a way of finding broader themes and implications from the past to understand the present and predict the future. While my mind is all over the place and I can very much enjoy a theoretical discussion for the sake of it, a lot of it loses relevance for me if I cannot apply my personal views and goals.



3. I often judge a person by the content of their character (as I see fit) over their accomplishments / relevance for the wider world. I find it hard to objectively evaluate their contributions if one or more parts of their character or lifestyle I cannot personally approve of.


4. I’m very hesitant to discuss something in greater depth if I am already opposed to it personally. I can shut off entire paths if I feel like “that’s not me” / “that’s not my ideal of what’s right.”

5. I’m not a strictly “the ends justify the means” person, but I can be that way if I am strongly driven to do something myself or for someone else. Usually it takes stripping the thing down to what I feel are the bare essentials. Once that’s done I quickly and sometimes impulsively come up with an action plan, throwing any regard for the process / social considerations / the idea of ceremony or ritual behind me. I just feel like I have to get it done in the most crude, straightforward way possible and move on to more meaningful things and what I feel is the next step.


6. Despite Point #5, there are still a lot of times where emotions cloud my judgment even if my head is telling me what I should do. I was easily a victim of sob stories in the past but many of those people turned out to be manipulative to one degree or another. They took advantage of the fact that I strongly feel I should do what I can to help people in this cold and uncaring world, as well as me constantly asking myself whether I’m a good person. They had this part of my psychology figured out. Since then I’ve learned to set limits and not overextend myself, and better discern those really in need of help vs emotional vampires.


7. I prefer to stick to what’s familiar, I enjoy new experiences and I can let loose and not think about personal / future implications, but I cannot do it for extended periods of time before I feel the need to question whether it’s what I really want and should be going after, and how it fits into my self-image / who I want to be.


8. Innovation and exploration for its own sake doesn’t always interest me. Rather than constantly pushing limits, I much prefer to turn my attention to issues that affect the average person, the average family. For example, I wonder why Elon Musk is so obsessed with sending things into space when the average person even in the first world is struggling so much. Issues like capitalism, poverty, class struggle, human psychology, marriage and relationships, education and child development etc. are so much more relevant to me than the latest technological breakthroughs or deductive / analytical philosophy like Kant.



9. I do not see myself as a rational and logical person. In fact, people who pride themselves on the fact that they are these things are some of the most oblivious to their own personal feelings and subjectivities. At the same time, I often turn to external sources or my observations of the outside world to create and justify what I personally see as logic. I am very mistrusting of authority but on some issues I make appeals to external authorities (usually anecdotal stuff).



10. I’m much more concerned with knowing so far as to how I feel about something rather than breaking it down entirely and studying it in lots of depth. I’m curious about lots of stuff but not necessarily very deep into lots of stuff if seen from the perspective of someone who’s hardcore. I like to gather just enough knowledge to achieve what I want, and piece it together with knowledge of other things to understand how I feel about a particular thing. I love looking things up for the sake of it.


11. I’m not a very random and spontaneous person within although if someone talked to me they’ll often see me making connections between seemingly unrelated (to them) subjects. Deep down I prefer knowing over not knowing, I prefer certainty over uncertainty. Extended periods of uncertainty over thoughts and feelings stresses me out. Sometimes when I finally express myself it might be the result of weeks, even months of processing it internally.


12. I have a tendency to see other people as having the same cognitive pathways and same desires as myself. I do this consciously and subconsciously. My first instinct is to compare my own responses to theirs, and if they are speaking a very foreign cognitive language and / or have a very different set of values, I struggle to build a connection with them. I struggle very much with cold, hard facts and reality without a chance to live the way I want to and to express my personal feelings. At the same time, I can be very fascinated by others with different cognitive pathways to the point where I sometimes imagine what it would be like to experience life as them for a week or two.


13. I’m a lot more opinionated than not. I like to know, first and foremost, where I stand.


14. I’m an idealist and very much into the idea of how “things should be.” I derive my conclusions from a mixture of tradition, personal habit, personal dreams and external sources / observations of the outside world.


15. I feel suffocated by a lack of clarity while not being given the freedom to do what I want / express what I wish to express. I become the most frustrated when I feel like I have the right to express something that’s relevant and valid to me but I’m held back by the general mood or a series of hard rules.


16. I don’t always adapt to change very well, unless it’s something I know I’ve been wanting for a long time. Very rarely do I think of things in terms of “wow this opportunity’s just too good to pass up.” It must be something I know I want, or feel that it’s a stepping stone that will lead me to where I want.
 

·
exploring space
Joined
·
10,176 Posts
Yes you sound like an introvert, SI+FI in Jungian typology, uncertain in MBTI since they change meaning of the attitudes. In MBTI you could be ISFP or ISFJ depending on how you answer the questions. I don't see you expressing much T, I see very strong F, that points to F domness in most of your points.
 

·
Registered
INFP 4w5 469 tritype
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Since becoming an adult I’ve never tested ISFP or ISFJ. With regards to ISFP I clearly lack Se and Ni because I am seldom if ever immersed in the moment or my surroundings without something going on in the background. I am always thinking of something in the past or the future and a lot of times life seems to just pass me by. I’m not very in touch with my physical body and my senses. Having observed Ni in my ENFJ friend, it’s much easier for me to brainstorm and have a hard time concluding while for him he has a much more singular focus and vision. With regards to ISFJ I clearly prefer Fi over Fe although I am not a person who likes to argue for argument’s sake unless I’m in a bad mood. ISFJ’s in my experience are emotional but not as intense, and can often feel detached from what they feel is right / what they want if the needs of others gets in the way. I can care a lot for people but I need my own way of doing it, it’s a comparative process for me where I ascribe my own desires and intent to some degree onto them, whereas for ISFJs it’s more of an immediate / practical / what’s at hand kind of process where they use a combination of societal norms and an engulfing process where they can literally become the other person. My thinking is clearly outwardly directed, I use the outside world to build my inner world and justify my inner world. I look for validation in the outside world for my inner world.

I did suspect I was ENFP or INFJ for a while, but ENFP has Ne before Fi and I’m clearly not like that. My Si is also too strong to be in the 4th slot. INFJ because I thought I’m more put together than I look / more organized than I might appear to be, but again it came down to the functions and I couldn’t see Fe over Fi in me, Ni over Ne, and Ti over Te. It seems as though IxFJs are somewhat more easygoing than me deep down. Their first instinct is to understand and identify rather than analyze, compare and conclude.

A couple more points that came to mind:

1. When I am going off about something I make appeals to logic and reason but anyone who tries to analyze it will find plenty of loopholes and criticize me for not seeing all sides. In other words I can confuse my feelings for objective reasoning.


2. To have a strong sense of personal identity and tenacity is to be unapologetic. To constantly lack a sense of identity and tenacity is unforgivable. People who lack personal views and go with the flow too much are just as difficult for me as people whose world views go against mine. I can be annoyed by what I see as intellectual and emotional passiveness. Sometimes I even think it’s a bit dangerous because these people in my view can be easily molded into something evil under the right influences at the right time. The old “I was just following orders” kind of thing.


3. I am not a technical person at all. I would prefer not to get bogged down by details and instructions. As a kid my teachers said I had trouble following instructions and always unintentionally wandered off into my own world. Now I do it intentionally when I think I’m having to put up with crap.


4. I am fundamentally interested in explanations that involve overarching systems and frameworks more so than seeing each case as individual and disassociated. I get nervous when I cannot use these systems and frameworks to make sense of the world around me. I’ve looked into religion but hated organization and hierarchy of the church. My systems and frameworks are a combination of external sources and internal thoughts. Sometimes I can come up with something new, other times not, and then I mix both. The contradiction is sometimes I cannot stand being boxed into a set of explanations myself as I feel I’m a lot more complex than that, yet I use a combination of personal and external explanations on others and on events.



5. I look for deliberate intent both consciously and subconsciously. I am less likely to see my own actions and the actions of others as merely adapting to the times or to circumstances rather than looking for deeper explanations related to their personal nature. Barring uncompromising personal values, I care much more about intent and the end goal than the process. As long as I feel like I can justify my decisions to myself and to the few people I’m close to, that’s all fine with me. I also tend to think others would think and do the same if they were me.


6. I hate the idea of being treated in a good but impersonal way. I subtly hint to the people I have important relationships with that I want to feel special in their eyes. I won’t always ask or beg for attention but it’s more of a “what do you see in them that I don’t have” kind of thing. At the same time, I hate being told what to do by what I see as impersonal and legalistic authorities, like governments and religious organizations.


7. I often fall into the trap of thinking my way is the best, maybe even the only way although I won’t say it directly. I find it difficult when other people don’t see things as I do and find it hard to understand where their other considerations might be coming from.


8. I don’t like being put on the spot and asked to answer big questions in a straightforward manner. I prefer the person spend time with me and get to know me, be curious and let me reveal myself to them rather than asking me to come up with a couple of sentences.


9. I cut people off when I get bad vibes from them over and over again, it could be feelings that I cannot explain, tangible things, or a mix of both. Sometimes I wonder whether I should give them another chance, but it takes a lot for me to open up to them again.


10. I prefer to talk about what could be / what I wish things could be rather than what has happened and what’s immediately applicable. Going over mundane stuff over and over again, or just talking about daily happenings or gossip doesn’t interest me a lot. I can talk about these things, but it’s not my forte. Usually what happens is I unknowingly lead the conversation into tangents and go way off topic and end up losing the other person who’s left wondering how the hell I made it from Point A to Point Z. People who have to go over ALL the details frustrates me, I pick up what I feel is enough, then my instinct is to conclude or wait for them to conclude and then I give my own analysis.


11. I suck at practical stuff. A lot of times I don’t know how to take care of myself because I live in my mind so much.


12. My tastes in art and music are straightforward rather than avant-grade or fringe. I scoff at a lot of so-called modern art unless I can easily see a message that resonates with me. I don’t think avant-garde music should be called music. I also don’t really like deeply complex books but I don’t think manga and comic books make for very good reading. I like fiction or part-fiction that’s rooted in history and culture. Not complete fiction or complete non-fiction. I cannot get into a book when I cannot imagine what’s going on inside my head, in terms of images, feelings, and themes.


13. I don’t always admit it but I can be quite superstitious and fatalistic. I don’t like it when people feel they have to boil everything down to physical and scientific explanations. I often think about fate vs free will.


14. I’m very by the book when it comes to something I care about. Other than that I could care less. When I cook I usually don’t have the patience to follow a cookbook but instead prefer to do my own thing.


15. I wish I could be more creative but I’m much less of a creative and artistic type than I am someone who thinks about lots of stuff. I’m pretty clumsy.

16. I’m not always happy when doing something with someone else, but I am always bored by people who can’t just spend time with me talking about different stuff and feel the need to do something concrete.


17. I prefer to be behind the scenes rather than be upfront. Declarations of personal will are less important to me than actions and inner guidance. I am skeptical of people who declare their intentions way too soon, because usually I feel (and it’s often true) that they end up deceiving and doing the opposite.


18. I hate being bombarded by advertising.


19. Someone who wants to befriend me doesn’t have to be a fun person, but they should have a very rich inner life. Someone with a rich inner life can more than make up for not having many things to do together.


20. I try to go out every day, even if it’s just for some fresh air. I love to explore the world, to travel, to see things I have previously only read about in books, to understand different ways of living and different approaches to life. However, I assume before I explore, and it’s very rarely that I go to a new place without any positive or negative assumptions at all that I’ve gathered beforehand. I understand with the intent of figuring out what’s right and what’s not to me, I feel like tolerance and understanding is overrated at times. Still, I have a hard time imagining why there are people (even when they can afford it) who don’t like to travel and aren’t curious about the world.


21. The human body is so complex to me, I have my physical needs and get aroused like any average guy does, but with my own body I sometimes wish it would take care of itself more. It’s not that I believe the mind can exist without the body and I disagree with “I think, therefore I am.” I believe sentience and thought should be the sole property of biology, I just suck at most things physical.
 

·
Registered
INFP 4w5 469 tritype
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I’m most likely to lose interest in a conversation when it’s one or more of these scenarios:

1. The conversation is strictly at the practical, daily and immediate level without giving me an opportunity to share insights into patterns and implications, and the other person isn’t really concerned about these things either.


2. The conversation is all about facts, figures and statistics without taking feelings into consideration.


3. The other person’s views are repulsive to me from a moral point of view.


4. The conversation is highly analytical into a facet of the issue I could care less about when I already have the bottom line and personal considerations in mind.


5. The person keeps asking me “how do you know”, “how can you say that” while not offering many points of their own. They think their lack of opinions and their tolerance (real or not) of different opinions while not feeling the need to conclude somehow makes them better than me. And then someday when they reach an epiphany they go on a murderous crusade.



Rarely do I tell another person “this is what you should believe because it’s right”, but they will see it when they move closer towards my views and I’m happy about it.

“It just is” or “it is what it is” isn’t an acceptable answer to me unless it’s over a moral issue. I look for what I feel could be different and could be made better.


I am more of a generalist than a specialist when it comes to understanding things. I look for traits and characteristics than can be applied in a broad sense to explain behaviors and motives.


When I was a teenager and going through major depression, I often entered into very emotional and negative streams of consciousness and lost the ability to analyze and think about what I was feeling. Nowadays I tend to take more time to analyze my state of mind before expressing it to someone else.


I am disgusted by a lot of modern / humanist psychology that throws out cheesy lines like “self-actualization” and “fulfilling one’s potential” or “you can be anything you want” or “anyone can make it.” I feel like these ideas are the root cause of many problems in the world. It’s gotten to the point where I feel it’s not only no longer wholesome, but people are made to feel about not wanting more out of their lives. How many people will end up having a real career? Not a lot. And this just leaves the masses vulnerable to corporatist exploitation.

I am the funniest when I’m not trying hard to make someone laugh.

I use my intellect to cover up the insecure and vulnerable soul inside that actually wants to be loved for his heart more than his mind. I feel worse when someone thinks I have bad intentions or doesn’t appreciate my care towards than if they told me my ideas were stupid and bullshit. Both aren’t nice to me but the former takes a greater toll on me.
 

·
exploring space
Joined
·
10,176 Posts
Since becoming an adult I’ve never tested ISFP or ISFJ. With regards to ISFP I clearly lack Se and Ni because I am seldom if ever immersed in the moment or my surroundings without something going on in the background. I am always thinking of something in the past or the future and a lot of times life seems to just pass me by. I’m not very in touch with my physical body and my senses. Having observed Ni in my ENFJ friend, it’s much easier for me to brainstorm and have a hard time concluding while for him he has a much more singular focus and vision. With regards to ISFJ I clearly prefer Fi over Fe although I am not a person who likes to argue for argument’s sake unless I’m in a bad mood. ISFJ’s in my experience are emotional but not as intense, and can often feel detached from what they feel is right / what they want if the needs of others gets in the way. I can care a lot for people but I need my own way of doing it, it’s a comparative process for me where I ascribe my own desires and intent to some degree onto them, whereas for ISFJs it’s more of an immediate / practical / what’s at hand kind of process where they use a combination of societal norms and an engulfing process where they can literally become the other person. My thinking is clearly outwardly directed, I use the outside world to build my inner world and justify my inner world. I look for validation in the outside world for my inner world.

I did suspect I was ENFP or INFJ for a while, but ENFP has Ne before Fi and I’m clearly not like that. My Si is also too strong to be in the 4th slot. INFJ because I thought I’m more put together than I look / more organized than I might appear to be, but again it came down to the functions and I couldn’t see Fe over Fi in me, Ni over Ne, and Ti over Te. It seems as though IxFJs are somewhat more easygoing than me deep down. Their first instinct is to understand and identify rather than analyze, compare and conclude.
Well, what I can tell you is that the attitude doesn't change from judgment to perception as it's an all encompassing personality trait, which can have a strong or weak effect but it still guides everything we do, habitually. The MBTI and other 8 function systems use a lot of circular thinking/redefining to type people which often leads to so much misunderstanding. For example what is often called "Fe", as not knowing how you feel and basically projecting your needs onto the external, Jung called participation mystique and was more related to how an introvert's unconscious extraversion is expressed and real extraversion has nothing to do with whether you know how you feel about something, but how easily that is influenced by the outside world. One doesn't exclude the other, there is just less importance placed on the subject.

Yea there isn't a lot of N expressed in your list, and some are even anti-N such as not seeking to understand or not seeing the need for innovation much. That doesn't mean there's no intuition in your thoughts, but unsure if it surpasses your preference for S still. What I see most is a very strong rational attitude (conclusion seeking) that comes from F. Preferring certainty over uncertainty is a strongly J related trait, so that's something to consider.

But when describing personality traits there's always the issue of how another one defines the same things as different people can talk similarly about a different thing, or talk differently about the same thing. For example, you say use the outside world to build your inner, does that mean you readily change your inner world or do you seek evidence for what you feel is right to further build up your case? Some of the contents in your list like no. 4 point to the latter, but it needs clarification.
 

·
Registered
INFP 4w5 469 tritype
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I seek evidence for what I feel is right and reinforce what I feel is right. I do not change my inner world readily to accommodate the outside world, and even in the face of contradictory evidence I tend to retreat deeper into my existing inner world rather than modify it and it becomes a cycle. For me it is about maintaining a consistency of belief that translates into action whenever possible. I do not believe in “keeping up with the times” as a matter of adaptation, unless I feel that something should no longer be relevant or accepted in this day and age.

And no I don’t think I clarified myself. I am seeking to understand, I ask questions all the time. I am interested in why people are the way they are, why things are the way they are, about ingrained patterns and how they can be changed / made better. However, I much prefer feeling before exploration and I will start to feel uncomfortable if I’m losing touch with my ingrained beliefs. Having said this, finding meaning for me is a continuous and self-directed process and I’m very skeptical of what society seems as “rites of passage.” For me it’s a continuous stream that doesn’t need to be marked by concrete milestones. It’s not that I don’t take these concrete milestones seriously at all, it’s just that I feel it’s part of a greater plan (even if I don’t have the details) all along rather than an indicator that I have moved from Step A to Step B.

My idea of innovation is that it should serve as a means to an end rather than the end itself. My ideal society is one that’s both new and old. While I very much believe in some traditions like the traditional meaning of marriage as a lifelong bond between a man and a woman, and the traditional family model, in this case my idea of innovation would be how to better uphold what I feel are the foremost pillars that society should, in my view, be built upon. In this case, that would be challenging existing systems that I feel are depriving the opportunity of people to easily and readily access these things without much of a struggle. It would include reforms and even revolutions directed towards challenging or overthrowing powerful governmental and corporate forces. My ideal society is one where people are anarchists at heart and organize into smaller communities, without nations and borders as we know them. I am skeptical of the idea that it’s in our nature to organize ourselves as such, and rather that it was imposed on us, the idea of “civilization”, but a few people that got very powerful and had what it took to make everyone else serve them.

I explore new possibilities all the time, I can be very idealistic and look forward to the future, yet worry about it as well when I see potential conflicts with what I feel is right. I let my imagination run wild but with lots of feeling behind it. I love to imagine random scenarios, make up stories in my head about the different things I could be. Sometimes I am very attracted to fantasy, I can see a painting and imagine what it would be like if I could go into that world for a moment.


What is your type by the way? Curious.
 

·
exploring space
Joined
·
10,176 Posts
I seek evidence for what I feel is right and reinforce what I feel is right. I do not change my inner world readily to accommodate the outside world, and even in the face of contradictory evidence I tend to retreat deeper into my existing inner world rather than modify it and it becomes a cycle. For me it is about maintaining a consistency of belief that translates into action whenever possible. I do not believe in “keeping up with the times” as a matter of adaptation, unless I feel that something should no longer be relevant or accepted in this day and age.
OK this seems in line with introversion. And from the rest I see perhaps more N than before, so introversion, feeling and possibly aux intuition. I don't think you display NE though, besides it would contradict completely the things you say here. The extraverted attitude is about being open to influence and modifying existing understanding, and the NE seeks the challenge deliberately on their own, it's experienced as a positive thing the majority of times, excitement or curiosity. I'm ENFP btw.
 

·
Registered
INFP 4w5 469 tritype
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Cool.

I am actually not opposed to modifying or changing my views entirely, unless it is what I feel is something I’m simply unwilling to compromise on. Usually for me I’m a lot more receptive to being corrected or modifying my views on intellectual topics but when it comes to deeper, subjective preferences that’s when I become a lot more stubborn. I am a lot more resistant to having my inner moral convictions challenged than having my intellectual convictions challenged. Usually change takes time for me and it happens in the background, and it is when I look back on it that I realize I have indeed modified some of my views over the course of time.

In fact, the best way to get me to change my views is not through telling me that I’ll change at some point, but by letting it happen naturally as a result of external factors and self-reflection that I choose to integrate into myself. If on a purely experiential level, I’m actually pretty cool and up for trying new things as long as I don’t feel like they’re just too reckless, physically overwhelming, or against my values. I’m generally quite easygoing until I feel like someone or something has crossed a red line.

I am open to new influences and having my mind changed if I feel like whatever new experience I’m going into will have a positive, or at least a neutral impact on my values. Note positive in this sense could mean observing, trying it out even for the sake of watching other people and then making a value judgment as to whether I’d be open to the same or similar experience in the future.

So for me I can be quite open-minded, spontaneous and I love to explore and broaden my horizons but when I feel there’s a conflict between a new experience and an existing value system I will more often than not choose the existing value system.

My way of absorbing information is by comparing theory to personal experience. Theory first, then I use personal experiences to prove or disprove. In other words I start with an assessment then go out and prove or disprove that assessment. It’s formulate first, experience and verify later. I’ve noticed this as a distinct preference from some other people in my life who don’t feel the need to theorize, and may stumble upon a theory that explains what happened to them but they don’t really put as much faith in it as simply experiencing something for the sake of it.

I’m on a quest to refine understanding but that may or may not (often the latter) change my feelings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,773 Posts
Let me know what specific feedback you’d like, but everything you’ve said sits happily within the realm of INFP. I feel very at home with how you talk, it’s a lot like how my INFP husband talks, although of course you both have specific thoughts and ideas just your own. He is an Enneagram 945 tritype (he’s a 9w1) by the way. He’s a good thinker and so are you. Im not using the word “thinker” in the MBTI sense— I mean a thorough and deep thinker, although he would also say like you that he doesn’t have to go as deep as me on a lot of subjects but then he goes deeper than me in a few, and he seeks comfort and “same” a lot but he also would get bored to tears if he had to only stick to practical matters in his friendships or relationship.

Anyway, what would you like to know more about? Some thoughts are a tangle of both sides of the axes. A lot of my morals come from a mix of Fi-Te and a lot of my husband’s preferences of living come from a tight mix of Ne-Si. The interesting thing about the axes I think is that you really can’t have one without the other, even if one side is suppressed or only vaguely understood/felt. But you know that.

There are people who claim that something like Fi Si Ne Te is possible, but I haven’t decided whether I agree or if this is just such an introverted person that it’s hard to see the second function? To me I think the second function kind of has to be there or else the person can’t really function… I would think…but I’ve seen especially older people use their third function a lot, especially when creating humor.

One more thought for you. Sometimes people label different things that they are doing as Te when really it might be SI or something else, and every once in a while I need that pointed out to me too, but so far From what you wrote I would think that you got most of your labels correct, but if that’s what you’d like to explore pick 1-2 of your points and go through in a post and see if that is interesting or what you’re wanting to learn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,288 Posts
I saw a lot of F and Si in your explanations. Much of it also sounded similar to how I see my infp friend experiencing the world.

For example, you compare theories and abstract concepts with your inner experience to see the link and make sense to you, which I do a lot too.

I don't have too clear picture to tell apart what F exactly is as it's pretty foreign concept for my own mind but you mentioned having your judgements often clouded by emotional state, which is exactly opposite to how I see the world - when I start to experience it that way and it would shade my judgements, i wipe it away asap. I definitely wouldn't bet T dom (or anybody with high enough T) for you.

My initial bet would be infp too. You clearly displayed what I've seen being "trademark" of ixfp - processing emotions and feelings for ages :)

But as you displayed lot of Si in my opinion (as I can easily relate to it) it'd be worth to think if it's the way you mostly perceive external world or is there any other perception overpowering it? In other words: is Si concious way of perceiving the world or you rather don't conciously see how it works and affects your thought patterns.

I'm unable to tell how Ne should display in forum posts or even if it's possible to see without chatting/talking directly with a person but if you possess it conciously, you should be able to recognize it by yourself.
 

·
Registered
INFP 4w5 469 tritype
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks once again for sharing and well, I think this clear things up especially using yourself and using your husband as examples. What I was really looking for were two things: 1. Is my mode of thought, from the points I gave, typical of the Fi-Te axis? 2. I am curious about what other axes are like, specifically the opposite which is Fe-Ti / Ti-Fe which I’m not too familiar with but suspected it in myself because I’m not really someone who argues outright and insist that I’m right, I rather argue my views more subtly or slowly convince someone to adopt my point of view, or just wait for things to happen to them that will remind them of what I have told them before and if they then start coming to some or all of the same conclusions as I do, I’ll feel pretty happy about that but it’s not like I will argue very directly or explicitly. I try to come to some kind of understanding even if it’s on a superficial level and stop short of an argument. Only when I feel like the other person’s just morally wrong or if their views are something I simply cannot deal with do I call them out and usually by that point I have more or less written them off as someone I can get close to. The

Ti I suspected due to my need for internal consistency and creating a structure within me that I seek to apply to the world, but then I don’t always feel the need to go so deep as to make sure my ideas are perfect and without any loopholes. I’m more likely to leave gaps and loopholes and investigate / explore an idea to the point where it gives me enough info to make a decision on whether I feel good, bad, or neutral about it (neutral as in being situationally dependent). I’m more result than process oriented if I had to choose one or the other. For example, I have been criticized for the way I handle certain situations by people on the Fe-Ti / Ti-Fe axis even if they thought I was mostly in the right and that whatever grievances I had were legitimate. Maybe it was because my way of going about it didn’t satisfy their need for socially acceptable harmony and appeal to “universal” values (Fe) and that it disrupted their internal logic of how things should be done (Ti), but for me the only justification I needed was that they had continuously violated my idea of what the relationship was supposed to be and that I needed to act as quickly as possible to protect myself from further harm, no matter what it took.

And thank you for your very nice words and complements. :) I’m a little flattered that you compare me to your husband though I’m significantly younger haha. I wish you and your family lots of happiness to come.

And yes I would totally be bored by a relationship where conversations were only grounded in the practical and immediately relevant. I can also be very frustrated by people who are obsessed with the process and going through every little part of it when I am ready to conclude and feel like they should be. I can be very naggy at times but it’s usually either a deliberate effort to give all the details (and that always comes with my conclusion / I am seeking a conclusion), rather than being compelled to do it because I assume the other person will see the big picture first and then if needed I’ll fill in the blanks as necessary.
 

·
Registered
INFP 4w5 469 tritype
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Thanks for getting back to me. :)

I think my Si is both conscious and unconscious. It’s conscious because it’s very hard for me to forget about something that happened in the past, even if I already forgot all the details but I usually always remember the feelings I had that led to whatever happened or whatever that situation made me feel. It takes effort for me to present a complete and moving picture of the past, it’s not that I can’t do it, but just that it’s hard for me to put it together all at once and that I need time to reflect. What I usually do is I look at the overall stages of my life that I have been through and associate those stages with bigger themes and things I was trying to do or get myself out of. And I am often stuck in the past while trying to imagine the future, I still look very much back into the past to see how far I have come, and it’s very hard for me to forget the past. Sometimes I remember exact details to the surprise of other people, other times people remember details I forget so it’s not always the same.

The unconscious part is that sometimes something I have experienced before at a random point in the past just comes into my mind again without me making a conscious effort to look back. It could really be anything, good or bad, sometimes it’s dreams other times it’s just a daydreaming thought. I have also experienced cases where after seeing a movie or hearing a song or piece of music that it gets stuck in my head and I can’t forget it. If it’s something that made me really sad or disturbed in some way, it can take me weeks to let it fade. For example, I have watched movies where robots gained human intelligence or even looked like humans, they could feel emotions and all that, and I was so disturbed and creeped out by the notion of something without biology gaining such a high level of likeness to our own species (because I think the ability to feel and to respond intelligently in a human way should not be given to machines) that it haunted me for some time afterwards.

One of these times where I saw a movie like this was at a friend’s (INTP) place. Knowing his obsession with robots and AI and belief that they are better than humans and would be the ones to make the world a better place, I have to say I started shutting off many of my real thoughts when I talked to him though I still tried to be nice.

My mind is often all over the place, making connections between different things that many other people have a hard time understanding or seeing the relationship between. For example, just today I was thinking that my personal situation having come from a broken family is sort of like a football game where a team starts with 2 or 3 or whatever number of goals down. The goals in this sense represent the advantages that kids from stable families may have over me, so that in a metaphorical sense I am trying to equalize and catch up to them in terms of goals, or maybe even exceed them in terms of the number of goals.

*For some of you out there, soccer if you must, lol. In Canada it’s called soccer but football as the Europeans call it makes more sense to me lol.

I often daydream and imagine myself being different things, living different kinds of lives, it could be anything from a football player to a king or general leading armies in a fantasy world, a video game creator, to a famous painter or author or world leader or someone from an ideal society or tribe that doesn’t exist. I imagine the different lives I could be having, how they’d be the same and how they’d be different from my actual life. It could even be as simple as imagining that I came from a better home. How would I be different? How would I be the same? How has the past influences my present? And would I want it any differently? So yeah, my imagination’s all over the place. Usually it’s not without any basis at all in what I have seen and experienced, but it’s hard for me to express these ideas at once, if at all, because not many would understand. Maybe I’m actually very embarrassed and self-conscious lol.

I could be imagining bigger things too. Like the interesting but at the same time, frightening scenario where humans were long extinct or never existed at all. What would take over? What would the world be like?

When Covid first happened, it almost struck me with a sense of excitement, like I felt I was actually experiencing some kind of post-apocalyptic scenario, everything felt so new and novel and I was waiting to see where it would lead. Perhaps the chance to start life anew in a new place. It was like the stuff of TV and video games sort of coming alive. It was so lonely seeing streets once filled with people that suddenly became so empty, but at the same time there was some kind of novelty to it all. Of course right now I just can’t wait for things to be normal again, to see everyone that I want to see and have my freedom back.

:) I think I understand where you are coming from when your first instinct is to see emotions as irrational. I can’t say I really do the same, but I can panic when I experience a completely new and novel emotion that I don’t know how it fits into my existing system of values and known ways of responding, but to be honest I don’t think I have hardly ever experienced a truly new emotional response. Usually in me there’s like an internal pendulum that gives me a sense of needing to assess and control my responses, making sure they’re in-line with my values at all times. To me the biggest fear is not knowing what I believe, and not knowing how to act or not being able to act based on my beliefs.

Therefore that’s why when there’s a conflict between something new and my internal feelings, I will usually want my internal feelings to win in order to protect and preserve my sense of self. Of course due to the Ne there are still very much cases where I just want to say “screw it all” and jump headfirst into the new experience, whatever it may be, but rarely do I go “YOLO” without thinking about the implications of what it means to my personal self-image, what I want to gain, and where it will possibly lead. I tend to see completely new feelings that I haven’t experienced before as initially irrational / in need of investigation, if I can’t determine where it fits into my own sense of self and understanding of the world my instinct is then to shut it off, or have it deep in the back of my mind, to suppress it and analyze it until I can one day fit it into myself.

And it could be:
1. Just an impulse that may happen to anyone when there are moments that they act out of character or just completely lose themselves in the heat of the moment, the complexity of human nature.

2. If it’s something bad, I would want to think of ways to avoid it in the future.

3. If it’s something that may not be so bad after all, I will see how I can integrate it into myself or at least use it to understand others when they behave in the same or similar ways.

4. Via a combination of points 1-3, what dimension, if any, does this add to my understanding of myself and others? In what ways should I strive to forgive myself and hopefully others for these imperfections, in what ways should I strive to not be like others?

:)
 

·
Registered
INFP 4w5 469 tritype
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
As you guys can see, the way I write is very much a stream of consciousness rather than any attempt to organize my thoughts into anything concise, lol. I have trouble doing that, and when I write it’s much easier for me to go beyond the word limit than to stick to it or be below it. In college I hated word limits and especially professors that were strict about it. It felt so suffocating.

For me it’s a matter of saying what I want to say no matter how many words it takes, I feel like I need time and energy to reveal the extent of my thoughts. And I often go back to edit my replies, once or a few times lol.

I also love alternate history and imagining what the world could be if turning points went differently. I love imagining both better and worse scenarios.

Contrary to some people in my life who scoff at all the “book knowledge” I have that they feel is useless because it doesn’t bring immediate and tangible benefits in the “real world”, the way I see it is one may never know when a random piece of knowledge may be of use to them one day.


I tend to lose interest in a conversation when it gets highly technical. For example, one of my biggest hobbies is keeping marine fish and corals.

By far the least interesting part of the hobby for me is the equipment side of things. I am much more into all the beautiful colors and shapes, all the feeding and social behaviors of the animals, but if the discussion was mainly focused on the equipment side of the hobby I would be bored within minutes. Like I seriously wish everything would just take care of itself while I just choose what animals I want to keep, and feed them and keep them happy. To me the equipment is a means to an end and the less I worry about it the better, but there are equipment junkies who will go on and on about the technology side while what I’m most interested in is the end product and what it could be.

For example in our hobby there’s a kind of machine called a protein skimmer that removes fish waste and excessive nutrients from the water. Without it there will be increases in nitrates, phosphates and eventually ammonia that will be deadly for all the creatures in the aquarium.

My approach is to just find the best skimmer I can access, even if it means paying more for it, and as long as I can see it doing its job I’d be happy. Some other hobbyists will go to great lengths to try out different skimmers, calculating their output and making observations of their effectiveness and efficiency, making detailed charts and logs and comparing bang for buck. For me it’s whatever works well and lets me enjoy the ecosystem I’ve created. The livestock is where it’s at.

But seriously, I have come across hobbyists more obsessed with the equipment than the actual stuff they keep in their tanks.

Even when I get more technical and want to find out how something works when it’s taken apart, usually it’s because I am already interested in how the parts come together as a whole, and then I might be interested in seeing what exactly each part is contributing to the whole. Rarely do I first try to see different parts and once that’s done do I then start wondering what they could be if combined together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,288 Posts
Yep, you're describing Si a lot. I can relate to it as STJ but it works differently - no looking back, especially at bad experiences. You still display a lot of F, which I can see in others but find foreign concept to myself :)
 

·
Registered
INFP 4w5 469 tritype
Joined
·
292 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yeah I see. :) Hard for me to forget both good and bad experiences, I’m equal in that regard. Takes me a long time to really move on from something in my mind.

Another thing about me is that there are cases where, and this is usually over the internet on some other discussion forums but I’ve encounter it in real life as well, is that I can sometimes look very deeply into the other person’s remarks when they might just be random or had no ill intent at all. However, I look for sarcasm, subtle mockery, or something that they’ve hidden between the lines. And a lot of times for me it matters more on what I think they said than what they actually said, whether they can convince me depends on the person and the situation at hand as well as the intensity of feelings towards them.

And when I feel like they’re using sarcasm or mocking me for saying something I know to be true, to me at least, I can’t help but feel they’re less intelligent than me lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,288 Posts
Yeah I

However, I look for sarcasm, subtle mockery, or something that they’ve hidden between the lines. And a lot of times for me it matters more on what I think they said than what they actually said, whether they can convince me depends on the person and the situation at hand as well as the intensity of feelings towards them.
Fun thing with this is that in most cases there are no hidden meanings behind what people say :) Starting from that assumption conciously, would make things easier sometimes.

But I understand what you mean, as when I was a lot younger, during my teen ages I saw it similar ways occasionally - overinterpreting of information. Also senses were overstimulated those times. Calmed down with age though and rarely kicks in now, plus logic overrides it then hey, stop seeing things which aren't there :)
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top