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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I have been reading about cognitive functions a lot. Mainly because I would get INFJ when doing mbti but completely off cognitive functions.

Ni/Ne
Ni is about finding patterns and connecting things globally, reaching to insights or conclusions that just "pop" in the mind. Ne would be about "dancing" in the process of perceiving information or reaching conclusions, instead of walking straight there. There is, they may get there later than Ni but find many possibilities in the way. Also they have a more divergent thinking, making (seemingly) random associations.
If this is correct I would be Ni, but I have no idea what the "foreseeing" thing is about. Many Ni doms like INFJ's talk about it but I don't get it

Fe/Fi
This is more complicated, but I'll use two situations as an example.
A) a person is making a decision and someone else challenges their opinion or values. Fi could get sensitive about it but they would stick to their decision. Fe would try to conciliate the expectations of everyone involved and avoid conflicts, which doesn't mean changing their own opinion.

B) a person is doing/saying something that is against the Fi/Fe value. The Fe would interfere even if speaking softly, while the Fi would have a more live and let live approach.
If these are correct than I would be Fe

Ti/Te
The Te person would mobilize the environment to reach their goals, while the Ti logic would be more about increasing their own understanding. Te is more focused on evidence and To more focused in internal logic ( for instance, when judging an idea)
In that sense I would be Ti and my desire to organize the outside world would have to do more with J than Te.

I am not sure though of the difference between Ni/Ti and J/Te

By this I would be INFJ, and as a loop I thought of when I am solving a math puzzle. I usually use Ni as I read the problem, vizualize it and the solution "pops" in my mind, not using systematic ways. But when I am dealing with harder problems I don't get it by Ni so I kind of freak out and try to use Ti. My logical skills are good but if my intuition fails I get anxious and instead of following one logical course of action I desperately change from Ni/Ti and don't solve anything. If I take a deep breath and follow Ti I can usually solve it.
 

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It's generally correct, yes. If you want a further understanding I would advise you to look into how the types usually behave so you know how a function manifests in personality instead of letting it be a free concept.

Anyway, doing a math problem is, for the most part, a specialized task that the brain has been taught how to do. You might still get intuitions that help you solve the hard part and then use logic to say if it makes sense or not, but I don't think it's fruitful to apply cognitive functions to something like math. It's just a complicated issue, so for starters you should just think of them as very general patterns in a personality.
 
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Here's a good resource: Understanding the 8 Jungian Cognitive Processes (8 Functions)

You do seem to have a good general understanding, though. But if you are an INFJ, you'll probably want to refine your knowledge as much as possible ;)

INFJs are Ni, Fe, Ti, and Se. We are almost always considering the future or "big picture" (Ni), we're good at detecting and influencing the emotions of others (Fe), and we keep an intricate storehouse for our logic and information (Ti). We're also prone to indulging in sensory things if we're stressed, and we can be pretty particular about what we like and want (Se)

My advice would be to read through the functions and see what applies best.
 
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Here are the basics:

"These four functional types correspond to the obvious means by which consciousness obtains its orientation to experience. Sensation (i.e. sense perception) tells us that something exists; thinking tells you what it is; feeling tells you whether it is agreeable or not; and intuition tells you whence it comes and where it is going." - Jung

Things that "pop" into your mind are not necessarily Ni or Ne. There is a concept called passive thinking, passive apperception, or intuitive-thinking (not to be confused with Ni or Ne; it is a hybrid or undifferentiated function).

Psychological Types - Wikisocion

 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Here are the basics:

"These four functional types correspond to the obvious means by which consciousness obtains its orientation to experience. Sensation (i.e. sense perception) tells us that something exists; thinking tells you what it is; feeling tells you whether it is agreeable or not; and intuition tells you whence it comes and where it is going." - Jung

Things that "pop" into your mind are not necessarily Ni or Ne. There is a concept called passive thinking, passive apperception, or intuitive-thinking (not to be confused with Ni or Ne; it is a hybrid or undifferentiated function).

Psychological Types - Wikisocion

I don't get it, because I read in soooo many places Ni is all about having "aha" moments. The way I interpret it is to be thinking about something and the solution "popping" in your mind.
 

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I read in soooo many places Ni is all about having "aha" moments. The way I interpret it is to be thinking about something and the solution "popping" in your mind.
I think that is a rather terrible way to explain it. (the fault of those websites, not your fault)

Let me give you an example.

Today in class we were talking about serial killers, and we were talking about one SK in particular--Kuklinski.

The professor asked the class a sort of "see if you can figure it out" question.

The question was something like "why do you think Kuklinski stored the bodies of his victims in industrial freezers?"


I love questions like this because, like riddles, you have to sort of use knowledge that you already have to figure out something that you don't know or something that is unfamiliar to you.

Anyway, one guy answered and said "well, some serial killers like to keep trophies of their victims to remember them or whatever." Which was a good answer. But it was not the correct answer.

And as I was sitting there, I was just thinking about what happens to bodies when they were in freezers and why anyone would want to keep a body in a freezer

- it prevents the decaying process--it won't produce that horrible dead body smell as fast
- it's a place to hide a body that maybe no one will go looking

but that thought of the decaying body made me think about forensic scientists and it was suddenly clear to me why he stored the bodies in a freezer--it prevents the decaying process of the body, yes, but not to prevent the smell (although that's a nice plus)--it's to throw off the forensic scientists who try to date the body and determine the time of death. If you keep the body in a freezer for a few weeks, it will decay suuuuuper slowly and totally fuck up whatever reading the forensic scientists manage to get.

That's why he did it. That was the correct answer.

This is Ni for you. Filling in the gaps. Producing answers given a dearth of information. Anyone good at riddles is good at Ni, as this requires heavy Ni usage.

Although that certainly isn't the only application of Ni:

 

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Nothing in your questionnaire suggested Ni even in inferior. Lightbulb moments are not exclusive to any type. Ne+judgement function works like that too in fact, I had mine confused for Ni for a few moths. There's no short description of any function that will give you the understanding just like that. Those short descriptions frankly speaking do more harm than good.

This is Ni for you. Filling in the gaps. Producing answers given a dearth of information. Anyone good at riddles is good at Ni, as this requires heavy Ni usage.
Ugh, I love math puzzles but dislike the "if Henry has 5 apples what species are the bats in Batman's cave?" type of riddles. Might finally explain why.
 

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Ugh, I love math puzzles but dislike the "if Henry has 5 apples what species are the bats in Batman's cave?" type of riddles. Might finally explain why.
Like sudoku? I've always thought sudoku was a very Ti puzzle.
 

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Like sudoku? I've always thought sudoku was a very Ti puzzle.
Yup. And the "insert missing numbers" sort. It's kind of ironic because I've decided to stop studying math in a high school and my final grade in the diploma is something like F or F-. :|
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
By @emberfly description I seem to have a good Ni.
Nothing in your questionnaire suggested Ni even in inferior. Lightbulb moments are not exclusive to any type. Ne+judgement function works like that too in fact, I had mine confused for Ni for a few moths. There's no short description of any function that will give you the understanding just like that. Those short descriptions frankly speaking do more harm than good.
Now I am all confused again! No matter how much I read about it these functions specially the introverted ones are so hard to define and understand
In my mind it's like everything is connected in a HUGE web, like everything new I have to analyze and think about it and fit it somewhere in all the connections. When I speak I make pauses and I forget what I was going to say because I have to stop and think about the relations in my mind. Also people expect quick replies but I can'5 do that because I have to explore the webs before forming an answer or acquiring new knowledge.
For instance: "new information x, what do you think of it?"
"Wait!! I still don't know how it relates to everything else. I can answer you back later"
People have called me "slow" because I really have to think before replying and I make pauses to think while I am speaking (plus not looking at them during the pauses or "spacing out". People complain I don't pay attention to what they say but I really have to fit what they are saying somewhere that's why I look away and " space out")
I wrote about it in my questionaire. The main point of knowledge for me is to fit more stuff inside my mind and feed my theories.
I thought this was Ni?
Also what is the difference Ni/Ti? And J/Te?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have the impression for most other people information is just information you know? Like "x", " okay, x". For me it's like "x", " wait a minute, I have to think about how x relates to this huge tree of associations in my mind"
 

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Ne-J. Though the fact that you need to make (a big?) pause makes me think that you might be introvert like you thought. Ne doms don't pause that much. Need to blabber faster, get out into outer world - for evaluating of others or just to see how it sounds. Try watching all of Michael Pierce's videos. Should give you some good basis.

In my mind it's like everything is connected in a HUGE web, like everything new I have to analyze and think about it and fit it somewhere in all the connections.
Ne does web, some judging function makes a sense out of it.
 

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It is virtually impossible to understand cognitive functions--especially one's own--by comparing introverted and extroverted variants. Intuition is intuition: it views the world abstractly, in so-called "patterns." I'm an Ne-dom, and I have never read an Ni description I couldn't identify with.

I only began to get a grasp on the various functions when I started looking at perceiving and judging functions operating together in the dom-aux position. This is particularly true for introverted functions, whose outward appearance will be HEAVILY influenced by its extroverted pair. Watch an ISTP interact with an INTP and you will see totally different manifestations of Ti.
 

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I've more problem distinguishing J functions than P. I'm starting to get Te via understanding Fe and by this logic I should be able to make sense of Fi via Ti and I get what people are trying to explain but brain still goes "What is this? NO, this is just wrong!".
 
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Now I am all confused again! No matter how much I read about it these functions specially the introverted ones are so hard to define and understand
In my mind it's like everything is connected in a HUGE web, like everything new I have to analyze and think about it and fit it somewhere in all the connections. When I speak I make pauses and I forget what I was going to say because I have to stop and think about the relations in my mind. Also people expect quick replies but I can'5 do that because I have to explore the webs before forming an answer or acquiring new knowledge.
For instance: "new information x, what do you think of it?"
"Wait!! I still don't know how it relates to everything else. I can answer you back later"
People have called me "slow" because I really have to think before replying and I make pauses to think while I am speaking (plus not looking at them during the pauses or "spacing out". People complain I don't pay attention to what they say but I really have to fit what they are saying somewhere that's why I look away and " space out")
That sounds like a Ti problem. (Watch Michael Pierce's videos; they're great)

It is virtually impossible to understand cognitive functions--especially one's own--by comparing introverted and extroverted variants. Intuition is intuition: it views the world abstractly, in so-called "patterns." I'm an Ne-dom, and I have never read an Ni description I couldn't identify with.
I agree with you that many Ni and Ne descriptions make it hard to distinguish them.

Same with Se and Si.

I think Fe/Te/Fi/Ti are super easy, though.

I only began to get a grasp on the various functions when I started looking at perceiving and judging functions operating together in the dom-aux position. This is particularly true for introverted functions, whose outward appearance will be HEAVILY influenced by its extroverted pair. Watch an ISTP interact with an INTP and you will see totally different manifestations of Ti.
Ja.

I've more problem distinguishing J functions than P. I'm starting to get Te via understanding Fe and by this logic I should be able to make sense of Fi via Ti and I get what people are trying to explain but brain still goes "What is this? NO, this is just wrong!".
I know what you mean. I like the Socionics model because it explains how each type uses all 8 functions.

MBTI is rather limited, really... the 4-function model totally makes it seem as though we use only 4 functions. Which is so silly to me... we clearly use all 8. We just suck at some less than others.

And, I don't even view myself as sucking at Fe, really. I think I simply devalue it. I don't see how a strong Te preferrer could even survive if they sucked at Fe--to get anything accomplished, you need to interact with people. Fe is a necessary life skill for everyone. No one wants to work with someone who sucks at Fe.
 

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Now I am all confused again! No matter how much I read about it these functions specially the introverted ones are so hard to define and understand
Allow me to respectfully suggest that the problem isn't with you; it's with the so-called "cognitive functions." They represent what James Reynierse has rightly called a "category mistake," so it's no wonder nobody can really agree on what they're about.

In case you're open to a change of perspective, see this post and the posts it links to.
 

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I know what you mean. I like the Socionics model because it explains how each type uses all 8 functions.

MBTI is rather limited, really... the 4-function model totally makes it seem as though we use only 4 functions. Which is so silly to me... we clearly use all 8. We just suck at some less than others.

And, I don't even view myself as sucking at Fe, really. I think I simply devalue it. I don't see how a strong Te preferrer could even survive if they sucked at Fe--to get anything accomplished, you need to interact with people. Fe is a necessary life skill for everyone. No one wants to work with someone who sucks at Fe.
The problem is find where you use it. I suspect I use Te when naming the price of my work since it takes me the longest time I usually have to think about it for 5-10 second which is in comparison to 1-3 if I'm talking normally. Err, the pause it not the point. The point is that when thinking of price I compare pricing of various different things, current curency rates, client's payment ability and such which seems like a Te work. The problem with Fi is that I can't seem to find where and when I use it. It just seems unnecessary for me. :|

That sounds like a Ti problem. (Watch Michael Pierce's videos; they're great)
"Wait!! I still don't know how it relates to everything else. I can answer you back later"
Is it though? I usually pause when to pick right words to make myself understandable so it won't end up in "Well you... a thing.. that... anyway it's this. You got it?". Huh, I didn't consider INTP for OP.

[edit]

no wait still see xnfp

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...ts-here-up-analysis-help-me-figure-out-3.html

I mean cmon^
 

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Cognitive functions can be confusing, especially when people mistakenly attribute certain modes to "the wrong" cognitive functions. You are correct that Ni is often described as a big "a-ha" moment, but that is only the most basic and passive use of Ni, the kind of use everyone has. To say that Ni is having "a-ha" moments is like saying all Se can do is say, "Hey. There's a cup. And it's yellow." It's a gross oversimplification of what the function can do when it has been given... preferential treatment, so to speak. I'm an Ni-dom, and my roommate is an Ni-aux; our Ni usage and development is drastically different! My Ni very rarely manifests in "a-ha" moments, and it should not be mistaken for passive thinking. "Intuition" in Jungian-based theories is not the same as "intuition" everywhere else. The "a-ha" moment defining Ni, I believe, is an example of people conflating the two kinds of intuition.

I noticed you didn't say much about the Sensing attitudes. Why is that?
 

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Cognitive functions can be confusing, especially when people mistakenly attribute certain modes to "the wrong" cognitive functions. You are correct that Ni is often described as a big "a-ha" moment, but that is only the most basic and passive use of Ni, the kind of use everyone has. To say that Ni is having "a-ha" moments is like saying all Se can do is say, "Hey. There's a cup. And it's yellow." It's a gross oversimplification of what the function can do when it has been given... preferential treatment, so to speak. I'm an Ni-dom, and my roommate is an Ni-aux; our Ni usage and development is drastically different! My Ni very rarely manifests in "a-ha" moments, and it should not be mistaken for passive thinking. "Intuition" in Jungian-based theories is not the same as "intuition" everywhere else. The "a-ha" moment defining Ni, I believe, is an example of people conflating the two kinds of intuition.

I noticed you didn't say much about the Sensing attitudes. Why is that?
Because she's Si inferior or possibly tert. :tongue:
 
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