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Is both Ni and Te being used within this process of solving issues/working towards goals?

https://www.quora.com/As-an-INTJ-wh...solve-the-issue/answer/Anna-Butler?srid=hTHeR

"Identify the problem.

What is it?
Why is it a problem?
What is my end goal here and how is the problem preventing that?
Then I start start working “backward” from the current situation to identify the source of the problem.

When and how did the problem start?
What other underlying causes may have contributed?
What could have been done to prevent it?
Are those same preventative steps still applicable, or is a new solution required?
What resources and information do I have available to me, or how do I acquire the resources and information I need?
What potential roadblocks might prevent my solution from being implemented? (And how can I circumvent or address those?)
Once a solution is in place, how do I prevent the problem from occurring again?
Then each solution is scrutinised to test its merit and potential value.

Which solution will provide the best overall outcome? (What are the pros & cons of each and what are their potential impact on the end result?)
Is there the potential for a solution to create any new issues? (If so, what might these be and how can I resolve them?)
Are there any opportunities to exist to improve overall efficiencies and outcomes as part of the solution?
Once I’ve assessed the merits of each potential solution and identified the one I feel is the best, I’ll implement.

I’ll break the problem and solution down into a sequence of steps - with contingencies at each stage - and start to apply them. This is where I start working “forward”.

I’ll develop an implementation plan that will have a checklist (mental or actual) which outlines the process that needs to be followed, and cross off each stage off as it is completed.

For a simple problem (eg. the fridge door won’t shut properly), this process can happen within a matter of a minutes. But for more complex problems this process can takes days, weeks, months even years (I’ve been working on a way to change the way the political system works in my country… that stuff doesn’t happen overnight!)"
 

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I'm not all up into cognitive functions so I don't know on that front. But, yes, I relate to some of these thoughts - especially the 1st and 2nd chunk. It is actually odd for me to think that some people don't have these thoughts at all when problem solving...??? What do others think about? lol

analysis of the problem and underlying factors is essential. If you just slap some duct tape on a large crack without thinking about why the crack appeared, it might hold for a bit, but you're likely going to continue having a problem at some point in the future.
 

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i don't go into anywhere near that much detail about it. more like just 'what's the issue, what are the options, pick one of them, get to work'.

i'm not a big fan of function-level analysis so can't answer that part of your question. jumping straight to the problem as a global type of concept and then having that retro-define what the 'obvious' or 'best' pathway is . . . that might be ni-ish, i guess.

i do personally associate ni with the jump-ahead-work-back kind of approach, in most types of scenarios. but putting together an entire, concrete, formal, step-by-step 'process' . . . nah. i'm not sure what that is, but i'm pretty sure it's not me. i'm more like 'i can explain (if necessary) on the road.'

personally, i associate that more with ni than anything else you've described. the snap selection and the confidence that i don't NEED to map it all out before i dig in. but as i said, i'm not very interested in function-level analysis and it's quite possible my own idea of ni is nothing like any official ideas about it.

edit: hah. i'm laughing because when i wrote this i assumed you were an intj like myself. so i refrained from saying your impressively detailed and systematic description of your process sounded to me more like the istx people i've come across. unsolicited typing not cool and so forth.

so it was fun to see your type label when i came back to the thread :p i'm not sure i'd be able to guess at how types other than mine use ni, sorry.
 

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Yeah this sounds mostly accurate, sans the list making. I guess I've never thought it all out like that before.

Ni is a function relating to perspectives. It is a learning and idea generating process that speculates on things that aren't yet known. Ni dominants become very good at recognizing patterns in problems and situations and then working backwards to generate the cause. Sometimes this happens instantaneously, or sometimes it needs to ruminate and run in the background and comes in flashes to you randomly. Te is a decision making process that mainly focuses on metrics, goal setting, and improving.

Stick them together, and Ni speculates on the things unseen, uses patterns and usually good speculations to work backwards to find the root causes of the issue, and Te takes action and devises the plan, figuring out what will work most effectively to solve the problem.

Edit: Kind of like when I saw your extra long post up there, and wondered what the ultimate reason would be that you were posting it as an ISTP, ruled out the causes that were least likely, and figured you were asking to see if you or someone you know was a Ni-Te or not. Then my Te shrugged and answered your question out of the kindness of its Fi heart and my Se went and took a long hot shower.
 

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Is both Ni and Te being used within this process of solving issues/working towards goals?

https://www.quora.com/As-an-INTJ-wh...solve-the-issue/answer/Anna-Butler?srid=hTHeR

Identify the problem.

What is it? Te

Why is it a problem? Ni-Te

What is my end goal here Te and how Ti is the problem preventing Te that?

Then I start start working “backward” from the current situation to identify the source of the problem. Ni-Te

When and how did the problem start? Ni

What other underlying causes may have contributed? Ni-Te

What could have been done to prevent it? Ni-Te

Are those same preventative steps still applicable, or is a new solution required? Ni-Te

What resources and information do I have available to me Se, or how do I acquire the resources and information I need Ti?

What potential Ni roadblocks Te might prevent my solution Te from being implemented?

And how can I circumvent or address those? Ti

Once a solution is in place, how do I prevent the problem from occurring again?
Trick question. Once the solution is in place, the problem will never occur again.
The question presupposes that the solution is a temporary fix. Ti-Se


Then each solution is scrutinised to test its merit and potential value. Ti

Which solution will provide the best overall outcome?
Trick question: an INTJ will come up with only one solution.
This question presupposes the solutions were reached using Ti-Ne.


What are the pros & cons of each and what are their potential impact on the end result? Ti-Ne

Is there the potential for a solution to create any new issues? Ti-Se or Ti-Ne

If so, what might these be and how can I resolve them? Ti-Ne

Are there any opportunities to exist to improve overall efficiencies and outcomes as part of the solution? Ti-Se or Ti-Ne

Once I’ve assessed the merits of each potential solution and identified the one I feel is the best, I’ll implement. Ti-Se

I’ll break the problem and solution down into a sequence of steps Ti - with contingencies at each stage - and start to apply them. This is where I start working “forward”. Se

I’ll develop an implementation plan that will have a checklist (mental or actual) which outlines the process that needs to be followed, and cross off each stage off as it is completed. Ti-Se
The first half is what I go through, and when I'm done with the first half the second half doesn't happen at all.

My process for coming up with solutions is this:
  • get context (Ni)
  • theoretically come up with a solution (Te)
  • get more context (Ni)
  • immediately replace the previous theoretical solution (Te)
  • get more context (Ni)
  • immediately replace the previous theoretical solution (Te)
  • ad infinitum

I never make a "list" of solutions at all. There's only one solution and it keeps getting replaced by a better one until it becomes the 'best' solution. Once I've gotten as much context (Ni) as humanly possible, I implement. (Te)

Also, I assume you're confused as to whether you're INTJ or ISTP.
 

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Best way to lose an INTJ > Show up with a problem and then disregard a rational solution. Do not come back to me with the same problem if you haven't tried the given solution. Next!
I'm with you on that, those people get me like :computer:
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Is both Ni and Te being used within this process of solving issues/working towards goals?

https://www.quora.com/As-an-INTJ-wh...solve-the-issue/answer/Anna-Butler?srid=hTHeR

Identify the problem.

What is it? Te

Why is it a problem? Ni-Te

What is my end goal here Te and how Ti is the problem preventing Te that?

Then I start start working “backward” from the current situation to identify the source of the problem. Ni-Te

When and how did the problem start? Ni

What other underlying causes may have contributed? Ni-Te

What could have been done to prevent it? Ni-Te

Are those same preventative steps still applicable, or is a new solution required? Ni-Te

What resources and information do I have available to me Se, or how do I acquire the resources and information I need Ti?

What potential Ni roadblocks Te might prevent my solution Te from being implemented?

And how can I circumvent or address those? Ti

Once a solution is in place, how do I prevent the problem from occurring again?
Trick question. Once the solution is in place, the problem will never occur again.
The question presupposes that the solution is a temporary fix. Ti-Se


Then each solution is scrutinised to test its merit and potential value. Ti

Which solution will provide the best overall outcome?
Trick question: an INTJ will come up with only one solution.
This question presupposes the solutions were reached using Ti-Ne.


What are the pros & cons of each and what are their potential impact on the end result? Ti-Ne

Is there the potential for a solution to create any new issues? Ti-Se or Ti-Ne

If so, what might these be and how can I resolve them? Ti-Ne

Are there any opportunities to exist to improve overall efficiencies and outcomes as part of the solution? Ti-Se or Ti-Ne

Once I’ve assessed the merits of each potential solution and identified the one I feel is the best, I’ll implement. Ti-Se

I’ll break the problem and solution down into a sequence of steps Ti - with contingencies at each stage - and start to apply them. This is where I start working “forward”. Se

I’ll develop an implementation plan that will have a checklist (mental or actual) which outlines the process that needs to be followed, and cross off each stage off as it is completed. Ti-Se
The first half is what I go through, and when I'm done with the first half the second half doesn't happen at all.

My process for coming up with solutions is this:

  • get context (Ni)
  • theoretically come up with a solution (Te)
  • get more context (Ni)
  • immediately replace the previous theoretical solution (Te)
  • get more context (Ni)
  • immediately replace the previous theoretical solution (Te)
  • ad infinitum


I never make a "list" of solutions at all. There's only one solution and it keeps getting replaced by a better one until it becomes the 'best' solution. Once I've gotten as much context (Ni) as humanly possible, I implement. (Te)

Also, I assume you're confused as to whether you're INTJ or ISTP.
Would you mind giving an example of how you'd solve a problem using the method you posted above? Yes, I am still very confused with what functions I use. Also, could you analyze this method of someone simply working towards a goal and determine the functions used?

https://www.quora.com/As-an-INTJ-wh...-step-checklist-look-like/answer/Callie-Kay-1



"Have I done research about this goal? If not, do so.

Make a basic outline

Do more research or think more about the topic

Make a new, more extensive and in-depth outline

Begin working out how to put that goal into action

Connect goal with others that have been completed in the past

Make steps to complete goal

Make steps to complete steps previously mentioned

Ponder different ways to complete the goal

Spend hours upon hours finding the correct way to complete the goal so that it doesn’t backfire

Set plans to fall back on

Execute plan

Complete goal"
 

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I'm not that systematic, I jump around between the steps more.

But I do generally:

Define the goal
Observe where I am now
Think about how to get to the goal (this is the problem and the action plan all in one)
Break down the problem into manageable pieces
Treat each piece like a separate problem, with its own goal.
Review progress on all the pieces frequently.

Throughout I keep checking on the original goal, and if what I am doing will actually get me there.

As I try to solve the problem, I get new information and revise my approach on the fly. When tackling a major problem with a lot of pieces, many people forget this last part and get bogged down in detail, losing track of why they are doing it. Remembering the goal and revising as you go along is a key part of problem solving and efficiency.
 

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Would you mind giving an example of how you'd solve a problem using the method you posted above?
I can't think up of an example at the moment, sorry.

Also, could you analyze this method of someone simply working towards a goal and determine the functions used?

https://www.quora.com/As-an-INTJ-wh...-step-checklist-look-like/answer/Callie-Kay-1



Have I done research about this goal? If not, do so. Ni or Ne

Make a basic outline. Ti

Do more research or think more about the topic. Ni or Ne or Se

Make a new, more extensive and in-depth outline. Ti

Begin working out how to put that goal into action. Ti

Connect goal with others that have been completed in the past. Si

Ti-Ne Every bullet below is just saying the same damn thing over and over again.
  • Make steps to complete goal.
  • Make steps to complete steps previously mentioned.
  • Ponder different ways to complete the goal.
  • Spend hours upon hours finding the correct way to complete the goal so that it doesn’t backfire.
  • Set plans to fall back on.


Execute plan. Te or Se

Complete goal. Te or Se
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I can't think up of an example at the moment, sorry.
Makes sense, so the person who wrote this is probably an INTP.

1.Alright, so what steps would you take in accomplishing any goal in your life? Would you follow the same process you mentioned previously ?


2.Also, what do you mean when you mentioned getting context? Could you elaborate on that part?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm not that systematic, I jump around between the steps more.

But I do generally:

Define the goal
Observe where I am now
Think about how to get to the goal (this is the problem and the action plan all in one)
Break down the problem into manageable pieces
Treat each piece like a separate problem, with its own goal.
Review progress on all the pieces frequently.

Throughout I keep checking on the original goal, and if what I am doing will actually get me there.

As I try to solve the problem, I get new information and revise my approach on the fly. When tackling a major problem with a lot of pieces, many people forget this last part and get bogged down in detail, losing track of why they are doing it. Remembering the goal and revising as you go along is a key part of problem solving and efficiency.
What exactly is done within the third step? Is that the time when you plan each step or just think them through ?

How would you apply these steps to a a big trip being planned far away overseas?
 

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What exactly is done within the third step? Is that the time when you plan each step or just think them through ?

How would you apply these steps to a a big trip being planned far away overseas?
The third step is thinking about what I have to do to get to my goal, in a macro way. Then I break it down in the next step.

If I was planning a big trip overseas:

1. Goal: Spend a month discovering a country. I'd like to visit some friends, explore a big city, check out some landmarks, go hiking.

2. Where I am now: I have vacation time built up, but not a lot of cash. Plus I need to touch base with my friends, and I don't know much about where I am going.

3. What I need to do to get to my goal: Time, money, valid passport, airplane ticket, research tourist resources, hiking trails, talk to my friends to set up a visit. Research possibility of joining a tour group for part of the time, or setting up my own itinerary. Do I have appropriate clothing? Charger that works in that country? (I would add to this list as needed. For planning a trip like this, I would definitely make a check list.

4. Break down the problem: The above seems like a tough task, and hard to track, so then I break it down into categories:

A. Money: How much do I actually need? Look at hotel costs, travel costs, airplane ticket costs. Is there a budget option? How quickly can I save for it? Am I willing to borrow money to pay for it?

B. Check in at work and with the friends I plan to visit - what time slot will work for both?

C. Passport - make sure it isn't expired. If it is, renew it ASAP

D. Get some travel books, and read about the tourist resources. Take notes on what you want to see.

and so on

5. Review progress and revisit goals: I might find that this country is really expensive and I'm going to have to borrow a lot of money, or my friends aren't available when I can go, or that it is the rainy season and the hiking will be terrible. At that point, it is time to revisit my goal - what is most important? Visit that country, or would another do? Or maybe my goal is mainly to see my friends - could I do it a different way? Could I change my schedule to go when the weather is better? By revisiting the original goal frequently, you keep focused on what really matters to you, and can be flexible about the details.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The third step is thinking about what I have to do to get to my goal, in a macro way. Then I break it down in the next step.

If I was planning a big trip overseas:

1. Goal: Spend a month discovering a country. I'd like to visit some friends, explore a big city, check out some landmarks, go hiking.

2. Where I am now: I have vacation time built up, but not a lot of cash. Plus I need to touch base with my friends, and I don't know much about where I am going.

3. What I need to do to get to my goal: Time, money, valid passport, airplane ticket, research tourist resources, hiking trails, talk to my friends to set up a visit. Research possibility of joining a tour group for part of the time, or setting up my own itinerary. Do I have appropriate clothing? Charger that works in that country? (I would add to this list as needed. For planning a trip like this, I would definitely make a check list.

4. Break down the problem: The above seems like a tough task, and hard to track, so then I break it down into categories:

A. Money: How much do I actually need? Look at hotel costs, travel costs, airplane ticket costs. Is there a budget option? How quickly can I save for it? Am I willing to borrow money to pay for it?

B. Check in at work and with the friends I plan to visit - what time slot will work for both?

C. Passport - make sure it isn't expired. If it is, renew it ASAP

D. Get some travel books, and read about the tourist resources. Take notes on what you want to see.

and so on

5. Review progress and revisit goals: I might find that this country is really expensive and I'm going to have to borrow a lot of money, or my friends aren't available when I can go, or that it is the rainy season and the hiking will be terrible. At that point, it is time to revisit my goal - what is most important? Visit that country, or would another do? Or maybe my goal is mainly to see my friends - could I do it a different way? Could I change my schedule to go when the weather is better? By revisiting the original goal frequently, you keep focused on what really matters to you, and can be flexible about the details.
As an INTJ are you constantly setting goals for yourself and visions of what your accomplishments would look like?

What does your daily routine along with mental processes look like ?
 

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As an INTJ are you constantly setting goals for yourself and visions of what your accomplishments would look like?

What does your daily routine along with mental processes look like ?
I don't know how to describe my daily routine and mental processes without writing it out novel length, with a stream of consciousness flow. That is much too big a project! I am not always setting goals. I do always have some goals, but I don't think about them all the time. I keep a bullet journal, with which I track goals and tasks, and that helps me focus on what needs to be done. But that isn't much to do with being an INTJ and I'm not constantly on task or super organized or anything like that. I like to daydream, read, watch movies, play games, just be lazy sometimes.
 
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