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TL;DR:
I'm an INTJ and I was a loner in high school. This girl was very friendly and witty, a bit of tomboy and very touchy-feely. She would often grab my arm and boobpress or cross fingers but without any feelings attached, as we used to joke around a lot playing "pretend" and used to just act as friends when "serious".

At university we parted ways but we would always meet up during christmas classmates reunions and she would always be touchy-feely. I already liked her a lot in school and later on she became a gorgeous girl and all that physical contact and her smell got to my head and I crushed on her.

However, we were so different in personality and friends circle that I never really considered a relationship with her. At some point she invited me to sleepover at her apartment, but since she asked that non-chalantly in front of everyone, I thought it was just her being nice and accepted.

When I went to her however it actually felt different than usual. She seemed more self-aware and would not be as touchy-feely. We spent the first day watching a series on her bed (at some point she said she was cold but I didn't get if she wanted me to put an arm around her shoulders), the following day going around town (at some point it started raining and when I pulled out the umbrella, she hesitantly grabbed my arm and stayed silent). For me it was actually a very happy experience but when I had to leave, all I could do was hug her tight because I just didn't understand what was going on. I wanted to kiss the shit out her, but I didn't really understand where I standed in all of this and I felt very miserable and regretful on my way back.

She always confused me with these mixed signals, with on/off contacts, I don't get if I'm being led on or what. Moreover she's been single all this time. She's a very social girl, she became quite pretty and she's intelligent, so I actually find it very surprising she doesn't have a bf, or maybe she likes having many fishes on the hook.

Can you relate to her? Do you have a clue of what's going on in her mind? Do you usually invite male friends to sleepover just as friends? She was the only girl in my life to make me feel like this.

Thanks

If you want to hear the WHOLE story, here it is (it's very long and I don't expect everyone to read it, but at least the "date" part should be worthy looking into).
 
Introduction
I'm a 26 guy, graduated in "science" and currently working in a research center. I have many schizoid and narcissistic traits, but I don't feel they constitute an impairment in my daily life. In fact I'd consider myself high functioning and so I dismissed the idea of having the actual disorders.

I have a crush on a girl since school days and at some point in time she invited me to her apartment. We had what you could call a date but nothing relevant came out of it.

Some some years have passed and I'm full of questions. But let's start from the beginning:

High school

In high school I was asocial and a loner. One of the reasons was that I grew up among the elders and was more comfortable around them rather than my peers. The other reason was that I always played alone and enjoyed it.

I only had 2-3 close friends, rest were acquaintances. One girl in our class was the typical sunshine girl, super friendly, social and touchy-feely with everyone, me included. I got along with her a lot (perhaps only with her), we used to joke around a lot, pretended to be husband and wife for fun with retarded themes going on (like penguins and what not). There was no romance involved at all. During this time I started to like her a lot.

However, we were two opposite worlds. She was super social and active, had decent grades and a lot of friends. I was a loner and always had to rely on myself. I was always left out of study groups because I didnt really need them. Two of my close friends would always tell me "man, you don't really need us. You are always ahead, you are the one passing the solutions during the tests, we'd just slow you down". I could never rely on anyone but myself and during this time I grew more self-reliant and independent. I wanted to be with her but I realized I wouldn't have been a good fit. I knew my good qualities and considered myself superior in some fields, but another more social guy would have been a better fit for her, so I let it sink.

University
At university everyone went separate ways. I made new friends with people on the same wavelength, I had a great time and was slowly forgetting about her. We would still meet with all the classmates during Christmas/summer reunions but no big deal. However, when I met her again the following year, she had blossomed and become more gorgeous (she wasn't that attractive at school, even tho I liked her a lot anyways) and she had gotten more touchy-feely. She would often grab my arm and boobpress, or hold my hand at random, always recalling the days spent in school screwing around. I still didn't think too much about it, as she'd do this in public without a care in the world, but I started becoming more conscious of her touch, her smell, her appearance and I crushed hard on her.

During one winter she non-chalantly invited me to visit her apartment in the new city. I didn't think too much about it, since she's the type of overfriendly girl to do this with others and I dismissed her invite as a jesture of courtesy. During christmas however she seemed disappointed I didn't contact her and she reminded me I'm always welcome and made me promise to visit her. I still didn't have expectations, as she'd ramble this stuff even in the presence of our schoolmates, but I accepted anyways.

However, considering that 16/19 of our classmates were drop outs who did nothing the entire day and the only ones with bachelor's were me and her (and another unknown), I thought that maybe I was becoming a better fit.

The "date"
- 1st day
Two months later I went over to her place. Greeted the other 2 housemates, she showed me the host room where I'd stay, and then we headed to her room. She started saying that her dress was all messed up and looked bad (even though she was so cute) but I reassured her it looked good. Then she told me of her past experiences in disco where a guy tried to get in her pants but she shoved him away. She still showed me the piece of paper where the guy wrote his number. I didn't really understand what she was trying to do, I thought she was showing off and I just pretended I wasn't phazed by that. Then we started recalling school days, old professors and other minor stuff.

In the afternoon we went to buy food supplies for dinner, while joking about dick-shaped cookies on the shelves (ye, she's that kind of funny/weird girl) and once home, I made dinner for us. I didn't think about it too much, since I'm a natural at cooking and it was a given that I'd be the one cooking. However she took a photo of the dish and sent it to her father, telling him I had prepared a romantic dinner while laughing it off. I always joked around with his father back in the days, so I still didn't think much about it. It was just like the old school days of pretend.

Afterwards we decided to go to the cinema. Two other girls joined us in the way. Some small talk here and there, while my position was never defined. After the movie it was late so we headed back home, took a shower and went to bed.

- 2nd day
We woke up late, had breakfast and the she asked what we could do. I introduced the topic of movies/series and she said she was up for it. I brainstormed a bit and picked up a title about romance and revenge. So we sat on her bed with the laptop on my legs and started marathoning the 1st season.

It was a surprise to see she got hooked up like that on the show (I didn't think she could enjoy some alone time at home for so long, since she's always so hyperactive and social). At some point she mentioned it was cold: the idea of putting my arm around her shoulder crossed my mind, but I thought she'd find it awkward and just gave her my jacket that was lying nearby. From then on I felt some tension building up. She seemed more self-aware and careful about being as close as possible but without making contact. Then we took a break.

That night one of her housemates was hosting a party, so we took part to it. The situation loosened up, we got back to joking and trashtalking about the food and what not, then I engaged in a conversation with one of her housemates who was into science and then she said she felt super tired, and suggested to watch 2 more episodes before bed. We did that, then it was "I have to get changed into my pajama, goodnight :)" and the night ended.

- 3rd day
We woke up early, had breakfast, then she asked me if I wanted to go around the city and I nodded. She took me around the city, we had a walk in the park, visited some monument, strolled around the bridge, made fun of weird costumes or stupid $#%^ and then it started raining.

We only had one umbrella and so I took the lead. Back in the days, while around our friends she wouldn't have hesitated to just grab my arm and go on, but this time I could see she was more embarrassed but in the end she grabbed my arm anyways (even though not as tight and boobpressy as usual). We walked under the rain in silence, then I broke the ice again while making fun of stuff and she loosened up.

After the rain stopped, we kept going around some shops, reached the main fountain, took a photo and started talking about university stories. She told me of that one time she was at a party and she accepted a candy from a stranger. She felt very miserable after realizing she was so naive and called her dad crying, saying that maybe she had been drugged. In the end it was nothing. That story still turned me off.

After that, we headed back home, I packed up my stuff and we went for the station. Before departing, I thanked her and told her I had a great time and hugged her tightly for a long. I would have kissed the $#%^ out of her, but I thought I didn't make enough progress and refrained from that. Then I boarded the train.

On the way back home
Then it dawned upon me. Misery. What the actual ###$? Did I just blow up my chance with her? Now that I think about it:
1) When she was saying she looked like a mess, maybe she was testing the waters to see if I found her attractive or not
2) When she told me about other guys trying to nail her, maybe she wanted to let me know she won't be single forever and that she can have other guys whenever
3) When she mentioned it was cold, maybe she was actually hinting at me wrapping my arm around her shoulder
4) When she suddenly said she was tired at the party while I was talking to the othe girl, maybe she wanted to snap me away from her, and when she suggested to watch 2 more eps before bed, maybe she was granting me one last chance
5) And the 3rd day, that was what you'd call a date. Everything about it shared the dynamics of a date, but I was having too much fun to even realize it.
6) When I finally left, maybe that was the time to kiss her? Nothing bad could have come out of that, right? Even if she rejected me, then rip, I was heading home anyways so no more awkwardness. Moreover we just meet 2-3 times per year, so who'd care, right?

I felt so horrible that night that I immediately texted her back, reciprocating the invitation, but with passing of time that topic died. We still kept in contact since then, but conversations became more sporadic.

After university
I tried to forget about her. I told myself once again that even if things went well, I wouldn't have been a proper fit for her anyways since I'm asocial etc, and maybe she was better off with some other douche. However, every time I was getting closer to forget her, my subconscious would haunt me with happy dreams of me and her together. During these years I entirely focused on myself to distract my attention from her. I got even better grades, graduated in no time and started working in a research center.

I met new people with who I started hanging out a lot, got to travel around the world due to my job, learn new cultures. I improved my knowledge about life, made new experiences and became a better version of myself under all points of view.

Recent years
Now I enjoy my life, I'm economically independent, I have my own apartment (small, but still), have become more socially adept (due to practice) and in general I feel good about myself. It was during these days that I dreamed again about her and this time around I thought "I've actually become a good fit. Maybe now it would be a good time, since she's still single". Afterall, 16/19 of

I texted her the other day, talked about she's doing with her life after she got her master's degree and to my surprise she had gotten back to hometown (a shithole) and was working as a babysitter. All of a sudden I realized that for all this time I had considered myself not worthy of her when afterall I was the one ahead the entire time. I always secondguessed myself, dismissing my good qualities in turn of what I thought she valued more (being social, active etc), but now that I am that as well, there is really nothing holding me back.

But then I started wondering: should I really pursue a future with her now? She's not having a good time and she was left with a handful of friends and living off her parents. However, even if I were to take her with me, it'd feel like a cheap move. I always wanted her to rely on me, but I don't want her to depend on me.

Or maybe I am just overthinking everything and I'm just a self-centered bastard and she never gave a $#%^ about me to begin with. I need a reality check on this situation.
 

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I feel like I know this girl. I've never done something like this before but I've had this happen to me. I think she was an NTP. Came with all the same kind of signs. She was touchy feely, definitely felt boob probably more than a friend should have. Going through puberty with that amount of contact, yeah, drives you crazy. She'd even make jokes about me being her boyfriend in front of others but nothing really came of that... And damn I couldn't read her. To make things confusing (although this might make things simpler for others) she'd say she's a lesbian even though she had a relationship with two guys after that revelation and always seemed attracted to guys... So... Yeah, I never thought she really believed that. I guess she was a lesbian until it came to certain guys...

I eventually moved on, got a girlfriend (a girlfriend who said friend confessed her love to whilst we were still together... I ended up forgiving her for that somehow.)

Years later she catches me unaware drunk, I can barely remember what happened. She asks me if it was true that I used to have a crush on her. I can't tell if she always knew but denied it until now or some of our friends pointed out the obvious effect she had on me. I mumbled something like 'yes' and the conversation ended. I regret not asking the same question back. I think that was the same party I tried to kiss her (she wasn't special, I was kinda making out with everyone there... Not a good message to send) but she pushed me away and said something sobering like "that's not a good idea".

The way I got over it? I stopped thinking about if she was interested in me and started thinking is this really the kind of girl I want? In the end I decided that she loved the attention and she would feed it because it felt good but she was never willing to commit, she had too many issues of her own to sort out. She drove me insane so I decided to move on.

I think you need to stop asking if you are good enough for her, short answer: yeah, you probably are. But is there something about this girl which makes her a little of an attention seeker who's commitment phobic? Probably best to either confess or realise that maybe you can do better. Hey, we're still friends though.
 
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Well, she doesn't act like me. I was a tomboy a bit too but a little weird. God if someone had me on a topic of space get ready for the rainbow of physics knowledge to shoot out of my hair. I would almost be an awkward brainiac. If she talks a thousand miles a minute about theology or quantifies and dives into theoretical topics that might be an ENFP.

My mother always points this out to me but this was me when I was little lol. I could bring home anything snakes, lizards, spiders, and worms and treat them like they were puppies. I had several male friends I just saw as a friend and nothing more. I could lay next to them and look up at stars and talk about how I was going up. I could hug them and even hold their hands but nothing lead to any boob grazes. If I wanted a male to touch me or had a crush I would become painfully shy. I was still very aware of my proximity to others at least with the privates.
she hesitantly grabbed my arm and stayed silent
This is the only thing in your post besides being a tomboy and holding hands that reminded me of me in a romantic setting.

Once I figured out the birds, the bees, and the gender I prefered to be with. ( I was very disappointed that I was not a lesbian or even bisexual). I didn't stay single for long. I think the longest I was single was six months. Normally what happens with me is a person in my social circles who I haven't tried out or who has not let me in on that fact that I've been a cherished person will step forward and ask if I wouldn't mind going on a date. Even my bully from elementary school did this to me in my break up in 2013. I was shocked.

So I can't relate a lot to the boob grazing but I have invited men over and we were just platonic. Hell, I let my INTP male friend stay with me for a year, free of charge, while he got his life back in order. I had a blast talking with him but I saw him as a brother and nothing more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I feel like I know this girl. I've never done something like this before but I've had this happen to me. I think she was an NTP. Came with all the same kind of signs. She was touchy feely, definitely felt boob probably more than a friend should have. Going through puberty with that amount of contact, yeah, drives you crazy. She'd even make jokes about me being her boyfriend in front of others but nothing really came of that... And damn I couldn't read her. To make things confusing (although this might make things simpler for others) she'd say she's a lesbian even though she had a relationship with two guys after that revelation and always seemed attracted to guys... So... Yeah, I never thought she really believed that. I guess she was a lesbian until it came to certain guys...
Oh yeah, this is exactly what she did back in school. She'd play pretend with me, like we were husband and wife in front of everyone, even calling me "my love" at random and hold hands like a couple.

@NIHM
I never really understood if she is ESFP or ENFP, but I'm pretty sure about ExFP. She's super extravert, definitely a feeling type and not really that rational in her choices (gave her some guidance back then) and she's an airhead and super random and always late and sometimes naive. She studies psychology but only once I managed to talk to her about something of interest for long.

When she was young she used to catch lizards bugs and what not, just like me, so we share that in the sense that none of us is bothered by bugs or other animals normally considered disgusting.

She always confused the fuck out of me, but now that you described yourself, she doesn't sound much like her. She was less "excited" about things. She is more physical and always active, jumping, climbing, dancing and what not. And she grew a pair in university, so the armgrabbing transformed into a boobgrabbing. I even randomly complimented her boobs haha, but it was like natural for us to talk about these things without problem.
 

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Oh yeah, this is exactly what she did back in school. She'd play pretend with me, like we were husband and wife in front of everyone, even calling me "my love" at random and hold hands like a couple.

@NIHM
I never really understood if she is ESFP or ENFP, but I'm pretty sure about ExFP. She's super extravert, definitely a feeling type and not really that rational in her choices (gave her some guidance back then) and she's an airhead and super random and always late and sometimes naive. She studies psychology but only once I managed to talk to her about something of interest for long.

When she was young she used to catch lizards bugs and what not, just like me, so we share that in the sense that none of us is bothered by bugs or other animals normally considered disgusting.

She always confused the fuck out of me, but now that you described yourself, she doesn't sound much like her. She was less "excited" about things. She is more physical and always active, jumping, climbing, dancing and what not. And she grew a pair in university, so the armgrabbing transformed into a boobgrabbing. I even randomly complimented her boobs haha, but it was like natural for us to talk about these things without problem.
I'm beginning to wonder if really we are both talking about Se-doms... But, yeah, she does sound like an ESFP.
 
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Oh yeah, this is exactly what she did back in school. She'd play pretend with me, like we were husband and wife in front of everyone, even calling me "my love" at random and hold hands like a couple.


@NIHM
I never really understood if she is ESFP or ENFP, but I'm pretty sure about ExFP. She's super extravert, definitely a feeling type and not really that rational in her choices (gave her some guidance back then) and she's an airhead and super random and always late and sometimes naive. She studies psychology but only once I managed to talk to her about something of interest for long.

When she was young she used to catch lizards bugs and what not, just like me, so we share that in the sense that none of us is bothered by bugs or other animals normally considered disgusting.

She always confused the fuck out of me, but now that you described yourself, she doesn't sound much like her. She was less "excited" about things. She is more physical and always active, jumping, climbing, dancing and what not. And she grew a pair in university, so the armgrabbing transformed into a boobgrabbing. I even randomly complimented her boobs haha, but it was like natural for us to talk about these things without problem.
She sounds just like my adorable sister. I love her to death but yeah that sounds a lot like her. She's an ESFP.
 

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Honestly if it were me and I was actually interested I'd never take this long not to take any action or escalate the physical touches.
For an ENFP I think I'm on the more timid side but I think if I had a sleepover with a dude I was attracted to I'd definitely find a way to lay on top of you or make you touch me. Like for instance if I know your ticklish, I'll do that and as you try and stop me get closer and closer.
Do you have a chance with her? I'm sure you do but seems like you have to initiate to see. Is it worth it? IMO not really, seems like you've built her up in your mind, idk if you actually really like her seems more like facination/lust(not that there is anything wrong with that).
 

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This girl is probably on some INTJ forum somewhere saying, "He's driving me crazy. Says he liked me then does nothing." She's probably saying, "I invited him over to a sleepover... the ball was in his court everyone... and he did nothing!" Actually, you would have to work hard to over-come that one. Hard enough that it becomes a good joke later. You gotta think of the message YOU are sending. She gave you plenty of chances. I wouldn't have given you nearly that many. I figure if a guy likes me, he had better like me and chase me because that's what I think is acceptable to society. (I'm 41 and happily married, but I remember.) Its not as acceptable for girls to chase guys, you know. Ask her out, dude. If she says no, then you're just where you left off, except with closure. I remember being that young and now it just all seems crazy that we didn't just say exactly what we thought. I remember when I dated a 30 year old once, it was so refreshing. At the end of the date he says to me, "I like you. You are smart and open-minded. I think this date went well and I'd like to go out again if you would like to." Now THAT's a good date! It completely changed the way I dated after that. I was looking for open, honest, and mature with no games. Notice I was NOT going to say these words myself to a guy. It's for the guy to chase and the girl to be chased and I had lots of horrible experiences early on when I went after guys (For instance, you ask a guy out and then you feel like he can't say no, so if he wasn't into you he just treats you badly--right?) I let that be my rule. The guy must chase me whole-heartedly. There are guys who know how to pursue out there.
 

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Lol i can relate hihi. I think she likes you given that she allows you to sleepover her place
 

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I think you should do the initiative.

As you as an intj, your dual is an esfp. So basically, esfps tend to get attracted with intjs.

So obviously she likes you being you.

So grab the opportunity dude. XD

If you feel like kissing her, kiss her! ;)


Kisss..


Kissssss..


Kissssssssss...


(^з^)-☆
 

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I think you should do the initiative.

As you as an intj, your dual is an esfp. So basically, esfps tend to get attracted with intjs.

So obviously she likes you being you.

So grab the opportunity dude. XD

If you feel like kissing her, kiss her! ;)


Kisss..


Kissssss..


Kissssssssss...


(^з^)-☆
Atma right now...

 

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Atma right now...

Hahahahahajahajahahahahahahaha! XD

Dammit i remembered before, i got my intp boyfriend, damn i was so fucking frustrated because I'm always doing the first move!

There's one time, i texted him, complaining why am i always the one making the first move? You're so frustrating..

Then my one enfp friend read that lol xD hahahahahahhahahah. XD

So OP, intj, make the first move okay? Because sometimes it's so fucking frustrating. XD
 
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