[actualjennings07]

I need some help saying "no" to people who take advantage of me. I would explain the whole situation, but I don't wish to bore you to death. :bored:

I would love some tips on assertiveness. I have read that this is difficult for many ISFJs (as it certainly is for me). How have you become more assertive in situations requiring you to take an unpopular stand? I would much rather avoid conflict, but I know I can't just let people walk all over me. I have opinions and needs just like everyone else.....

Any thoughts? Or resources you might direct me to?

Thanks for anything. :happy:

 

[Ahoy]

Lol, you want resources on being assertive? Not sure what that would constitute, as you already know what you want to do / need to do. Will reading "tips" or "how-to's" on saying 'no' really help? I doubt it. Only you can come up with the balls to take a stand. If you step on someone's toes, the world will keep turning. Hell, I know quite a few people who straight up don't like you until you show you have fight...

Food for thought...

"The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking." ~ A. A. Milne

"The worst loneliness is to not be comfortable with yourself." ~ Mark Twain

 

[EYENTJ]

A major part of this is understanding where you end and someone else begins. Many of the "helper" types I've seen have an overly Collectivistic attitude in that they feel responsible for others in a deep, deep way. Once you have a clear understanding of boundaries, giving help to others no longer becomes a burden but a freely given favor out of appreciation / affection / love / respect.

Read some Ayn Rand to selfish it up a bit. You'll go overboard with the assertiveness at first... everyone I know who went from pushover to assertive adult made a pitstop at overly reactionary. No worries, it'll work out in the end. At least you are thinking about how to tackle this. Many people wallow in self-pity without seeking a solution. You'll alienate some people, and probably even do some people wrong in your quest to become an individual, but it's worth it, for you and everyone else involved in your life.

Final resource:
http://www.nathanielbranden.com/catalog/articles_essays/to_succeed_at.html

 

[jamescarrolls]

I need some help saying "no" to people who take advantage of me. I would explain the whole situation, but I don't wish to bore you to death. :bored:

I would love some tips on assertiveness. I have read that this is difficult for many ISFJs (as it certainly is for me). How have you become more assertive in situations requiring you to take an unpopular stand? I would much rather avoid conflict, but I know I can't just let people walk all over me. I have opinions and needs just like everyone else.....

Any thoughts? Or resources you might direct me to?

Thanks for anything. :happy:

Hello... I'm new and starting to have a better understanding about ISFJ's. I have a female friend that is a ISFJ. But before I begin, first of all, you guys are amazing individuals. Didn't realize how much you guys care for people you are close to and to family members. I'm learning that ISFJ's wish to be helpful to others.
Being assertive saying no. I've learned from my personal experience is this. Let them know that you are not able to or that you have other obligations or you do not have the time. Simply put. If they respect you and they know that you've stepped up to the plate on numerous ocassions, then they should know that when you say you can't, you can't.
Then you have others that can't take no for an answer. They have gotten used to you and are only thinkig for themselves. It will take practice. Understand, that it has nothing to do with you. They had just gotten used to habits of assuming you will do it. Time to change your habit. Let them know that if you I have the time to help, that I can and if I can't do it, you know that means I have other things I need to do. No questions asked. This takes practice. But the key is you have to assert yourself. Do not feel bad. And please do not say sorry. The ones that appreciate you know you by now. The ones that can't take no for an answer, are taking you for granted and only selfishly thinking only for themselves.
And vice versa, if you ever asked for help and they've been there for you. Then you know that if they say no, that means they can't or have other things they need to take care of. And you should not take it personally especially if they helped when they wanted to. I hope this helped.

Sincerely,
Johnny

 

[sts06]

Being assertive saying no. I've learned from my personal experience is this. Let them know that you are not able to or that you have other obligations or you do not have the time. Simply put. If they respect you and they know that you've stepped up to the plate on numerous ocassions, then they should know that when you say you can't, you can't.

I have a problem with this myself. For example, if work calls and asks me to do an extra shift I will always do it unless I have a set in stone obligation somewhere else. I hate it; I often don't want to do it but I can't say no. So I have learned to say no if I genuinely can't do it, but my problem is if I don't want to do it but don't have a good reason not to. I always feel guilty if it's just what I want to do and so I 'explain' why I can't do it for far too long even when there is that reason. This is where I need to be assertive about saying no and not take on more than I want to.

 

[jamescarrolls]

I have a problem with this myself. For example, if work calls and asks me to do an extra shift I will always do it unless I have a set in stone obligation somewhere else. I hate it; I often don't want to do it but I can't say no. So I have learned to say no if I genuinely can't do it, but my problem is if I don't want to do it but don't have a good reason not to. I always feel guilty if it's just what I want to do and so I 'explain' why I can't do it for far too long even when there is that reason. This is where I need to be assertive about saying no and not take on more than I want to.

1.How long have you worked? Could you say long enough that people pretty much know who you are? The ones that count.
2.Does your boss and fellow coworkers know you pretty good?
3.How's your work ethics? Could you say you have been reliable, dependable, hoest and responsible there?

Well, if you have these qualities and I was your boss... I wouldn't want to lose you. You are important to them.
And more than likely, your boss cannot read your mind. Same goes for your fellow employees.

You need to let them know that there are times that I wish to be able to just do nothing. That I need time for myself to relax. So If I let you know that I will not be coming in, do not take it personally. I'd ask if you could find others to cover that position. And if for some reason, you tried all your means and still can't find anyone, please do not hesitate to call me. And I will see if I can. Try it, what do you got to lose? Absolutely nothing but your own imagination of negative critics in your head.

Sincerely,
Johnny

 

[sts06]

Thank you for answering :happy:

1.How long have you worked? Could you say long enough that people pretty much know who you are? The ones that count.
2.Does your boss and fellow coworkers know you pretty good?
3.How's your work ethics? Could you say you have been reliable, dependable, hoest and responsible there?

1. I've been there around 5 years so yes I'd hope so.
2. I doubt my boss knows me very well. I don't like him much so I stay out of his way as much as possible.
3. I used to have an excellent work ethic and went the extra mile until the boss told me I was lazy because I wanted the breaks we are legally entitled to (among other things). Now I do my job and I do it well but I never do anything extra anymore. That sounds bad, but I don't feel valued there at all so I see no reason to give him so much of myself.

You need to let them know that there are times that I wish to be able to just do nothing. That I need time for myself to relax. So If I let you know that I will not be coming in, do not take it personally. I'd ask if you could find others to cover that position. And if for some reason, you tried all your means and still can't find anyone, please do not hesitate to call me. And I will see if I can. Try it, what do you got to lose? Absolutely nothing but your own imagination of negative critics in your head.

I should have mentioned that it's part-time work, too -- I have small children at home and so can't work during the days. The thing is it is a very small business (there are 8 of us working there, including the boss). We all work sole charge except on weekends when there is some crossover. Of those 8, 4 (including the boss) refuse to do extra shifts so if someone is sick or on annual leave there is a real squeeze on the rest of us to step up. I already say this to them: I will do it if you can't find anyone else. but since hardly anyone else will do the extra work it is usually me especially if it is one of the 4 who will work who is the sick one. While I dislike the boss I really like my co-workers and I wouldn't like to put extra work on them if I just don't want to do the job rather than genuinely can't do it. As a consequence I often find myself working all weekend and never having time with all my family together. It is very frustrating and I know I need to learn to just not worry about those other people and think of myself but it is very hard to do and I always feel so guilty even just thinking about it.

 

[jamescarrolls]

Thank you for answering :happy:



1. I've been there around 5 years so yes I'd hope so.
2. I doubt my boss knows me very well. I don't like him much so I stay out of his way as much as possible.
3. I used to have an excellent work ethic and went the extra mile until the boss told me I was lazy because I wanted the breaks we are legally entitled to (among other things). Now I do my job and I do it well but I never do anything extra anymore. That sounds bad, but I don't feel valued there at all so I see no reason to give him so much of myself.



I should have mentioned that it's part-time work, too -- I have small children at home and so can't work during the days. The thing is it is a very small business (there are 8 of us working there, including the boss). We all work sole charge except on weekends when there is some crossover. Of those 8, 4 (including the boss) refuse to do extra shifts so if someone is sick or on annual leave there is a real squeeze on the rest of us to step up. I already say this to them: I will do it if you can't find anyone else. but since hardly anyone else will do the extra work it is usually me especially if it is one of the 4 who will work who is the sick one. While I dislike the boss I really like my co-workers and I wouldn't like to put extra work on them if I just don't want to do the job rather than genuinely can't do it. As a consequence I oftend myself working all weekend and never having time with all my family together. It is very frustrating and I know I need to learn to just not worry about those other people and think of myself but it is very hard to do and I always feel so guilty even just thinking about it.

1. I understand.
2. I'm very happy to hear that out of the 8... you have 4 you enjoy working with. And it also tells me that you genuinely care for those who work with you.

You do the best that you can for them. Even though there are times you feel you are not appreciated. You do what you do. It is because that is a part of you. You believe in your work ethics.
Now with your boss, is it possible that he was not himself? Maybe having a bad day? He is human too. Do you believe he cares for his employees? Possibly? If so, then try to communicate with him. Somehow let him get to know you and you get to know him. Being a boss is no easy task. He or she has to do a lot of juggling on his part too. But once again, if he or she is a responsible boss, help him out. If this is a job anyone can do and he or she doesn't really care whether he or she keeps the job, then your right. Don't need to give much if that person gives nothing back.
But the other ones that work with you. Enjoy what you have. Enjoy the friendship that you have for one another. Laugh with them, cry with them, give support, and once in a while go out with them. Get to be personal with them and get to know one another.

Sincerely,
Johnny

 

[dagnytaggart]

It indeed IS hard to say "no".

Try "nyet" or "NEIN!" (If I may make a suggestion, there's nothing quite like loudly shouting "NEIN!")

 

[HandiAce]

It indeed IS hard to say "no".

Try "nyet" or "NEIN!" (If I may make a suggestion, there's nothing quite like loudly shouting "NEIN!")

Isn't it Njet? I'm not sure, you might be right as well. Anyway, thanks for the laugh.

I think I learned how to say no to people very early on. This is probably because I spent a lot of time defending many of my values, especially from other kids in elementary school up. Values being external ones: Ideas, schools of thought, etc.

One thing I've kept in mind is that there are people that will figuratively and in the most unlikely event literally attack you. So these people have no right to mess up what you value, what you know and care about. Counter attack those people for doing that. They are most likely low-lives asking for trouble.

 

[tskim]

I had a best friend and he was an ISFJ also, he couldnt say no to people and he was way too kind to everyone around him and he was being walked all over or people talked behind him. I seriously told him to grow a pair and simply say no if you dont want to agree to it. It took him a long time to realize when to stop and draw the line by saying no.

 

[Rowan]

Hello... I'm new and starting to have a better understanding about ISFJ's. I have a female friend that is a ISFJ. But before I begin, first of all, you guys are amazing individuals. Didn't realize how much you guys care for people you are close to and to family members. I'm learning that ISFJ's wish to be helpful to others.
Being assertive saying no. I've learned from my personal experience is this. Let them know that you are not able to or that you have other obligations or you do not have the time. Simply put. If they respect you and they know that you've stepped up to the plate on numerous ocassions, then they should know that when you say you can't, you can't.
Then you have others that can't take no for an answer. They have gotten used to you and are only thinkig for themselves. It will take practice. Understand, that it has nothing to do with you. They had just gotten used to habits of assuming you will do it. Time to change your habit. Let them know that if you I have the time to help, that I can and if I can't do it, you know that means I have other things I need to do. No questions asked. This takes practice. But the key is you have to assert yourself. Do not feel bad. And please do not say sorry. The ones that appreciate you know you by now. The ones that can't take no for an answer, are taking you for granted and only selfishly thinking only for themselves.
And vice versa, if you ever asked for help and they've been there for you. Then you know that if they say no, that means they can't or have other things they need to take care of. And you should not take it personally especially if they helped when they wanted to. I hope this helped.

Sincerely,
Johnny

I think Johnny stated it wonderfully. Just remember you are important too, and YOU are the ONLY one you can rely on 100%. (ok yes there are peeps out there that will stand up for you 99%.....) Don't let yourself down. It will be difficult for sure-I am in the same boat, trying to shed the label 'doormat', and it is very difficult. I have snapped at people (not very contructive fyi) in a desperate attempt to stand up for myself. I would avoid that route. Just remember you. YOU. Place importance upon yourself. You need to be taken care of as well, nurture yourself.

Good luck. I am on the sidelines cheering for you.

rowan.

 

[Sela]

I posted a reply in the ISTJ thread "how is your work ethic" that you all might find useful in this situation. HTH.