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The last 3 really close relationships I had were with ISFP's they all ended in disaster. A big part was that they were all very selfish. One of the relationships I had we had a fight. We came to the conclusions of what we wanted the other to do/change. All I wanted from her were these simple things say sorry, please, and thank you when socially expected, be on time, and keep your commitments and promises. I changed what she wanted me to change but she couldn't even do those simple things. The others relationships had similar problems in this area. I don't understand how these ISFP's thought that it wasn't selfish? Is this the way all ISFP's are?
ISFP's always seem really nice on the outside, but once you start to get to know them (which can be a pain in the butt) they turn out to be so subtly mean!!! I don't hate ISFP's. I mean no disrespect. But can you explane to me how this is okay? Now I'm not saying that ALLLLLL ISFP's are like this and are horrible people with no redeeming qualities. I do quite admire your originality!

Anyway, if you aren't to pissed off with me, please do chime in and share!
 

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ooh that is interesting, i don't think all isfps are like that though. i can definitely say i'm not since i usually think of the other person first. If i do the slightest thing wrong, i usually apologize really quickly since i feel extremely guilty/crap:crying: if i don't, but that could be me? i dunno
hope that helped a bit:happy:
 

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Well, my parents taught me manners. :tongue: So I'm usually the first to say please, thank you, sorry, etc., and I always mean it. I won't say I'm not a selfish person, but as I've said before, I think we all are deep down. If I really truly care about a person though, I will try my best to be considerate and put their needs before mine.

I guess you've just had some bad luck.
 

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The biggest thing that I learned from being in a long term relationship (18 years) is that you need to accept the other person as they are (it took me 10 years to figure this out). If being on time, please and thank yous, and keeping commitments and promises are that important to you, you either need to find someone who agrees with you, or rethink how important they really are to you. Trying to change someone is a losing battle, especially if you are dealing with someone who deep down resents being told who they should be. Consider that perhaps you were also being selfish by expecting your partners to be someone that they weren't. I am not saying that they didn't behave badly, but any type would be preferred to be loved for who they were.

So what you experienced could be ISFP's reacting to feelings that you were trying to control and change them. That can bring about bad behavior in quite a few different types.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The biggest thing that I learned from being in a long term relationship (18 years) is that you need to accept the other person as they are (it took me 10 years to figure this out). If being on time, please and thank yous, and keeping commitments and promises are that important to you, you either need to find someone who agrees with you, or rethink how important they really are to you. Trying to change someone is a losing battle, especially if you are dealing with someone who deep down resents being told who they should be. Consider that perhaps you were also being selfish by expecting your partners to be someone that they weren't. I am not saying that they didn't behave badly, but any type would be preferred to be loved for who they were.

So what you experienced could be ISFP's reacting to feelings that you were trying to control and change them. That can bring about bad behavior in quite a few different types.
I never once tried to change them. Having said that if they can't even do those few simple things maybe someone should try to change them. It's selfish and I have no time for it.
 

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Well, my parents taught me manners. :tongue: So I'm usually the first to say please, thank you, sorry, etc., and I always mean it. I won't say I'm not a selfish person, but as I've said before, I think we all are deep down. If I really truly care about a person though, I will try my best to be considerate and put their needs before mine.

I guess you've just had some bad luck.
We all have selfish desires but you NEVER have to act on them. I am a rather selfless person. Yes, I have selfish desires but I rarely act on them. I think that a big part of this is the fact that ISFP's live in the present. ISFP's don't seem to realize that their actions affect the future. ISFP's aren't planners they are mighty impulsive, which is another form a selfishness to me. ISFP's that I have listed were all very lazy as well and then they would complain about something that their own laziness
caused, expecting me to bail them out, which I did. (stupid me) So then I think, okay I just went out of my way to do something for them, now that I need help they'll give it to me, Right? WRONG!!! No apparently that would be asking to much. These people that I listed seemed to not realize that even though I am an ENTJ and my feelings don't get hurt very often at all that it isn't okay to constantly only ever think about their self. What Sorry for the rant, I truly am trying to understand the ISFP's. I have just had so many bad things happen. Although I have one friend who is and ISFP and she isn't as bad. She is still self centered but much more reliable. I understand that ISFP's don't want to be controlled. But do ISFP's really think that making commitments to some one is that other person trying to control them? Anyways, my ranting aside, I'm just trying to understand, probably in vain.
 

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I never once tried to change them. Having said that if they can't even do those few simple things maybe someone should try to change them. It's selfish and I have no time for it.
Sorry, I gave you advice that you did not want. To answer your original question. No, I don't think ISFPs are any more selfish than any other type.

I forget that my ENTP husband has feelings sometimes. He seems very tough, and unbreakable - he isn't. He doesn't show his weakness, so I forget that it is there. So, I have unintentionally hurt him.

In the same respect, he forgets that I am not like him. He will get very impatient with me and has trouble understanding that I can not do the same things that he can easily do. He has unintentionally hurt me because of this.

He sees me as lazy, and I see him as incredibly pushy and demanding (to put it nicely). If we focused on the stuff that annoyed us, we would really hate each other - and we've gone through stages like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sorry, I gave you advice that you did not want. To answer your original question. No, I don't think ISFPs are any more selfish than any other type.

I forget that my ENTP husband has feelings sometimes. He seems very tough, and unbreakable - he isn't. He doesn't show his weakness, so I forget that it is there. So, I have unintentionally hurt him.

In the same respect, he forgets that I am not like him. He will get very impatient with me and has trouble understanding that I can not do the same things that he can easily do. He has unintentionally hurt me because of this.

He sees me as lazy, and I see him as incredibly pushy and demanding (to put it nicely). If we focused on the stuff that annoyed us, we would really hate each other - and we've gone through stages like that.
It's not that it was advice that I didn't want I just thought it was irrelevant.
 

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I understand that ISFP's don't want to be controlled. But do ISFP's really think that making commitments to some one is that other person trying to control them? Anyways, my ranting aside, I'm just trying to understand, probably in vain.
Since I started the whole control thing, I will try to explain a bit what I meant.

I can only speak for myself here. I am just getting through a time in my life where well-meaning people expressed in various ways that perhaps I was not living up to their expectations. At first, I went along with it and tried my best, but I constantly failed. It was implied that I was lazy and had bad manners, despite my efforts. So, I got mad and gave up trying so hard. I got tired of being told through subtle hints, body language, tone of voice, etc. that I was somehow wrong. Especially since up to that point, I hadn't had a problem in life doing things my usual way. I probably did some bad things when I was mad. I would sometimes do the opposite of what I was suppose to do just out of spite. But more often then not, I just gave up trying to please people and just started acting like myself. It was the only way to maintain my sanity, because I was on the verge of losing myself. So, if that is selfish to you, I guess I would have to agree that I am selfish. If I had a choice, I would only hang around people that accepted me as I am.

So this is where I am coming from. I realize that it may have nothing to do with your situation. Your OP struck a nerve with me and I reacted.
 

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Hey ENTJ guy, just stay away from the ISFP's. If you go around expecting them to adhere to certain rules in a relationship, it'll just fall apart. Any SP and FP type is inherently known for NOT adhering to such things.

I just got over my relationship with an ISFP. I wont be dating another, it's not their fault they're like that. It's just how they are. I think the healthy ones do exactly what the previous post describes, and stop trying to act a certain way. I had to ritually force my ex to just speak her mind sometimes about what SHE thought. Everyone else in her life would just bully her into doing what they wanted her to do, then she'd become miserable from it and have an overreaction. If she just spoke her mind on a regular basis, and acted as herself, she wouldn't end up in those situations.

When an ISFP doesn't do that, they do harbor this inner dark-side that basically means you need to stay away from them, they'll only cause problems. ISFP's like that need to keep screwing up their lives until they realize that they're the problem.
 

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Hey ENTJ guy, just stay away from the ISFP's. If you go around expecting them to adhere to certain rules in a relationship, it'll just fall apart. Any SP and FP type is inherently known for NOT adhering to such things.

I just got over my relationship with an ISFP. I wont be dating another, it's not their fault they're like that. It's just how they are. I think the healthy ones do exactly what the previous post describes, and stop trying to act a certain way. I had to ritually force my ex to just speak her mind sometimes about what SHE thought. Everyone else in her life would just bully her into doing what they wanted her to do, then she'd become miserable from it and have an overreaction. If she just spoke her mind on a regular basis, and acted as herself, she wouldn't end up in those situations.

When an ISFP doesn't do that, they do harbor this inner dark-side that basically means you need to stay away from them, they'll only cause problems. ISFP's like that need to keep screwing up their lives until they realize that they're the problem.
Really? I am very appalled by this. Especially the last sentence. I am not quite sure what my girlfriends personality type is but what you described sounds very much like her. You havent put two and two together with you ex it sounds like. By saying she was BULLIED into doing things she didnt want, it was obvious she didnt feel comfortable speaking her mind. Because she felt as though she could keep peace by letting things go and just getting over it.

My girlfriend is the same way, and you have to make a comfortable environment for her so that she feels COMFORTABLE in speaking her mind with YOU. You cannot "ritually force" someone into feeling comfortable and opening up to you. That is as anagrams said about the whole trying to change a person. If you steadily show her that you are there for her, then in time she will come to understand that you are a person she can trust and hopefully when she does open up. You wont judge her.

just my 2 cents tho. If you want to avoid isfp's like the plague, then suit yourself.
 

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Hey ENTJ guy, just stay away from the ISFP's. If you go around expecting them to adhere to certain rules in a relationship, it'll just fall apart. Any SP and FP type is inherently known for NOT adhering to such things.

I just got over my relationship with an ISFP. I wont be dating another, it's not their fault they're like that. It's just how they are. I think the healthy ones do exactly what the previous post describes, and stop trying to act a certain way. I had to ritually force my ex to just speak her mind sometimes about what SHE thought. Everyone else in her life would just bully her into doing what they wanted her to do, then she'd become miserable from it and have an overreaction. If she just spoke her mind on a regular basis, and acted as herself, she wouldn't end up in those situations.

When an ISFP doesn't do that, they do harbor this inner dark-side that basically means you need to stay away from them, they'll only cause problems. ISFP's like that need to keep screwing up their lives until they realize that they're the problem.
I agree with most of that though. However the bullying thing doesn't makes sense. If they are too passive to say anything (and it's rather hard to try and read them) I think it's there own fault for not saying anything. That was another one of the things that happened. Ashley was her name. We were friends over the course of whole school year. They she tell me that for a whole year I had been doing stuff that pissed her off. At first I was sorry but then I realized that she had not right to be so mad at me like she was. If she had just spoken up months ago there wouldn't of had any problem. She Exploded. That's when I decided she was a jerk face, (there were some other things that led me to believe so not just that) now we aren't friends. And I LOVE it.
 

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Really? I am very appalled by this. Especially the last sentence. I am not quite sure what my girlfriends personality type is but what you described sounds very much like her. You havent put two and two together with you ex it sounds like. By saying she was BULLIED into doing things she didnt want, it was obvious she didnt feel comfortable speaking her mind. Because she felt as though she could keep peace by letting things go and just getting over it.

My girlfriend is the same way, and you have to make a comfortable environment for her so that she feels COMFORTABLE in speaking her mind with YOU. You cannot "ritually force" someone into feeling comfortable and opening up to you. That is as anagrams said about the whole trying to change a person. If you steadily show her that you are there for her, then in time she will come to understand that you are a person she can trust and hopefully when she does open up. You wont judge her.

just my 2 cents tho. If you want to avoid isfp's like the plague, then suit yourself.
I agree with most all that you have said, except one part. You can't force someone to FEEL comfortable with sharing their thoughts. But you can FORCE them to speak their thoughts even if they don't feel like it. I don't try to avoid the ISFP's. But I am much more weary about being friends with them now. Since 3 of them have gone up in flames. :shocked:
 

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I used to be the person who did what everyone wanted me to do and I was living a lie and was stressed out by living this life style that everyone wanted me too. I realize I'm not changing for anyone I'm me and if they don't like it well it wasn't ment to be. I dont' want to have a women who needs to change to be with me I respect them for who they are, As a isfp I intend to go with the flow with things but.. I need my space to hangout with my friends and do things that I enjoy doing. If I couldn't do the things that I love doing then is life really worth living? Is it greedy or selfish for a person to expect another to change for them? The thing is I keep everything bottle up inside and then when I have something to say it means alot! You think people would listen a little more closley or something but they don't beasue it's everyday life for them to do this. My luck has been with women who want you to open up but when you do they get all pissed off about it and either refuse to listen or don't care about it. That's being greddy and selfish in my opion I give you all this time to listen to what you have to say and then finallly when I have something to say it's not important enough for them to care about it!
 

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All I wanted from her were these simple things say sorry, please, and thank you when socially expected,
Hmm, I always try to say 'please', 'thank you', and 'excuse me'. It's automatic. Pounded into my mind from my mother who is all about that stuff. Saying sorry is harder. I do these things not because it's expected of me, but because I don't want another person to feel hurt if I didn't. For some reason saying these things to a stranger is easier.
Well, SPs are rebels at heart and never do anything just because they are expected to. We have our own morals and values that aren't based on what society says but more what we feel is right.

be on time, and keep your commitments and promises.
Aha! Guilty. I flake out sometimes. For various reasons. Usually because I just didn't think about my appointment until just before and left myself very little time to prepare. Usually my boyfriend has to remind me of commitments because they completely slip my mind. I try to avoid making promises because I am really bad at keeping them. It could be a bit of selfishness on my part. I know I can get that way. Probably one of my least liked traits. I am not reliable at all. It's something I know I need to work on.

I changed what she wanted me to change but she couldn't even do those simple things. The other relationships had similar problems in this area. I don't understand how these ISFP's thought that it wasn't selfish? Is this the way all ISFP's are?
Its a tough point. I think you have stumbled upon a major weakness of the ISFP. I can't speak for all of us, but for myself I can be selfish. I stay home when I said yesterday I would be somewhere just because I don't feel like going anywhere. I live today and what I said yesterday or what I might do tomorrow is rarely on my mind. I can definitely understand how it might seem like selfish behaviour to someone else, particularly someone who really values things like being dependable or reliable, the supreme easy-going nature of the ISFP may be annoying. We're not trying to slight you though, and it's not because we don't think our commitments to you are important, it just something that's in our nature and changing that is nearly impossible. It may seem like a simple thing to you, but it can be very difficult.

ISFP's always seem really nice on the outside, but once you start to get to know them (which can be a pain in the butt) they turn out to be so subtly mean!!!
This is probably because ISFPs hate conflict so much, they tend to be passive-aggressive. This is probably the most unhealthy way to show you are angry or upset about something. ISFPs won't explode (usually) when they are angry, but sit around and stew, give you the silent treatment or just become stubborn. I am guilty of doing this all the time. When I'm angry I shut up about it, retreat back into myself and avoid people until I cool off, but if I'm interrupted I may snap or just refuse to talk or snub someone on purpose because I can't confront them directly. I confess, I am chickenshit.

In any case, it sounds like your values may be vastly different from that of an ISFP. You may want to just avoid pursuing our type altogether. But maybe this forum can help you understand why we act the way we do. Really, we do care a lot about others, and your exes probably never meant to hurt you. And all types can be selfish, just about different things.
 
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