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To be honest, I don't really know how I would feel having a relationship with an ENFP. I usually get along with everyone, but I get a knot in my gut when around most heavy extroverts that just wants me to get away from them. It may turn out to be beneficial though, having someone who is more enthusiastic. Maybe as long as I get to handle the finances things would turn out okay. :p Although, as I have stated in previous threads I am nineteen and have never had a G/F or anything but I can only tell you how I see things turning out.
 

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Is it really that complicated? Has anyone had any experience, or opinion on it? :unsure:
I LOVE ENFP FEMALES! :tongue: It is a tie match between them, the ESFP's and the ISFJ's. :blushed:

However, ENFP's are among the most fascinating creatures on earth. :tongue: If they weren't so hard to capture I would offer my professional evaluation. :cool: Unfortunately, they always seem to evade the clutches of the ISTJ. :frustrating:

But yes, this relationship CAN work, it just takes a bit more than others... especially in the realm of patience and time management. :mellow:
 

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I posted the following post on another thread so there may be a bit of repetition if you have already read it....This post might offer a few insights into the complexities of dating your diabolically opposite personality type....I think throughout the whole relationahip there was a facination for each other because we were so different...unfortunately the differences tore us apart... :sad:


I dated an ISTJ for about 9 months and the relationship was completely balanced with the fabulous and the not-so-fabulous...it was the best of times :tongue: and it was the worst of times :mellow:

What I absolutely adored about him:

  • His ability to focus, his reserve, his politeness, his reliability...a wonderful, nice, considerate person.
  • His loyalty to his family and friends.
  • He always called me when he said he would...he was punctual to the minute. One time I was 5 mins late showing up to his place and he called me on my cell inquiriring where I was. I then had to establish a "late-tolerance rule" meaning that if I was going to be 15 min late (which inevitably I was most of the time) then I would call to let him know.
  • He was very sensual - the "S" side of him was highly developed and he was one of the persons in my life that I could really cuddle with - he was a cuddle monster and the depth of this surprised me. I think he made up for a lack of emotional intimacy with close, sensual, physical intimacy.
  • He espressed his caring for me with acts and deeds...he is a big "foodie" and we would concock fabulous meals together - really planning them out and he must have had 25 cookbooks...it seems that he would let his imaginative - thinking come out in this expression.
  • He did have a quirky sense of humour that would come out every now and then...I didn't always get his jokes but it was such a pleasure to see him get all humourous on himself and LOLing.
  • I did my best to get him to let loose - maybe I was secretly trying to corrupt him (hahahaha)...it didn't really work.
  • I found him indelibly facinating...so different from me...such a challenge to understand..."to get"...it kept me coming back. We actually broke up twice before we finally called it quits.
What drove us apart:

  • he is a perfectionist and worked insane hours...I didn't see/hear from him for days...I felt like I was always competing for his time. I guess I wanted more of him (was that sooooo selfish on my part?) but it wasn't in him to give. I learned too late to honour his introversion and if I had discovered this site a little bit sooner...well...
  • He poo-pooed alot of my suggestions initially - he is naturally skeptical and would crinkle his face up at alot of my ideas. What I don't think that he really understod about me is that I need to have an imagination stream which just kind of blurts out of me...I share alot of my hairbrained ideas and really a very small percentage of them actually come to fruition...I got the sense that he disproved alot of the things that I valued - trying to live my life authentically and with purpose and trying to figure this out one step at a time...this resulted in alot of experimentation on my part and a desire to try alot of new things and new adventures which he would not want to share with me or was initially skeptical about.
  • We never faught about things because I think we were both being too polite about things...which is never good in a relationship - you need to go deep and I wanted to but I didn't know how to get under his protective shell...it was like he never completely trusted me and this kind of hurt...all I wanted to do was get in that emotional space with him and maybe shake it up a bit and he defended this space with stubborn resolve.
  • He was very protective of his very close friends and we did most of the couple socializing with my friends - although probably because I was doing this anyway.
  • I never felt like he needed me...like if I dropped off the face of the earth he might not of noticed...I know we NF types need a bit more validation that other types and I was trying to figure out a way to communicate this to him in a logical way...didn't get there.
  • I had a few emotional hurdles doing the time that we were dating - one of my aunts passed away and my father was diagnosed with cancer...he looked at me, he logically talked about things (how was the funeral?...) but I felt that he was so cerebral that me having a few emotional grief wig-out moments was very painful for him to live through with me...he didn't know how.
  • We would debate for the sake of debating...I debate when I have strong opinions or feel passionately about something...he would take the opposite position just to debate...this inevitably would piss me off because he would try to change my feelings/opinions...when I asked him why he did this...he said that we debate so that he could learn new things....all he really had to do was ask me how I was feeling (sigh!)...
And to top all of that off - he poo-pooed my motorcycling...way out of his comfort zone...so I had alot of my own pursuits that I pursed myself...(this last comment is said very lightly and with humour only!):blushed:

Thank you for letting me blurt this off my chest...I have been lurking around th SJ forum to try to gain a deeper understanding of things and to put my deep and somewhat complex feelings for my ex-ISTJ into context. I have great affection for him still and hope that we can transcend to a state of friendship sometime in the future.

All in all I think any relationship type pairing can work in theory...you just have to perfect your communication approach and have alot of patience and affection....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
What I absolutely adored about him:

  • His ability to focus, his reserve, his politeness, his reliability...a wonderful, nice, considerate person.
  • His loyalty to his family and friends.
  • He always called me when he said he would...he was punctual to the minute. One time I was 5 mins late showing up to his place and he called me on my cell inquiriring where I was. I then had to establish a "late-tolerance rule" meaning that if I was going to be 15 min late (which inevitably I was most of the time) then I would call to let him know.
  • He was very sensual - the "S" side of him was highly developed and he was one of the persons in my life that I could really cuddle with - he was a cuddle monster and the depth of this surprised me. I think he made up for a lack of emotional intimacy with close, sensual, physical intimacy.
  • He expressed his caring for me with acts and deeds...he is a big "foodie" and we would concock fabulous meals together - really planning them out and he must have had 25 cookbooks...it seems that he would let his imaginative - thinking come out in this expression.
  • He did have a quirky sense of humour that would come out every now and then...I didn't always get his jokes but it was such a pleasure to see him get all humourous on himself and LOLing.
  • I did my best to get him to let loose - maybe I was secretly trying to corrupt him (hahahaha)...it didn't really work.
  • I found him indelibly facinating...so different from me...such a challenge to understand..."to get"...it kept me coming back. We actually broke up twice before we finally called it quits.
This sounds a lot like him. Thank you for your insight. :proud:
 

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We would debate for the sake of debating...I debate when I have strong opinions or feel passionately about something...he would take the opposite position just to debate...this inevitably would piss me off because he would try to change my feelings/opinions...when I asked him why he did this...he said that we debate so that he could learn new things....all he really had to do was ask me how I was feeling (sigh!)...
As weird as this might sound....a lot of my 'bonding' happens in doing this. I think the whole 'birds of a feather' type thing I end up very close to ISTJ's because they are very similar to me and quasi plentiful (also noting the lack of INTx's...which I may or may not bond with the same too?!?). We all debate and that is how we bond. That is how we understand one another. That is where we are teachers and students of one another. Enter respect and intelligence which leads to loyalty and trust. This is not just me, this is a group (all men and myself) and we are all very close. Also, it should be noted that this group was of complete strangers 5 yrs ago...and is all by choice. Not work/family etc.
 

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MyLittle Black Heart...

Thanks for this...I think you nailed it. I guess he was luring out all of what I was thinking/feeling/perceiving/imagining in the debate (it was never a discussion...it was always a debate) but was giving back very little in return. I wanted to know what he was thinking/feeling/perceiving/imagining...but either I wasn't listening hard enough (hahahaha - which is quite possible) or he wasn't opening up wide enough to share this with me...If you can believe, I an extrovert, felt exhausted by this...very strange indeed...

This is very useful information if the friend potential will ever materialize...thank you very much.
 

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MyLittle Black Heart...

Thanks for this...I think you nailed it. I guess he was luring out all of what I was thinking/feeling/perceiving/imagining in the debate (it was never a discussion...it was always a debate) but was giving back very little in return. I wanted to know what he was thinking/feeling/perceiving/imagining...but either I wasn't listening hard enough (hahahaha - which is quite possible) or he wasn't opening up wide enough to share this with me...If you can believe, I an extrovert, felt exhausted by this...very strange indeed...

This is very useful information if the friend potential will ever materialize...thank you very much.

You are welcome. I am happy to help.

I think that this not only boils down to understanding...it also gives insight into compatibility.
I was married to an ESFP, and our perspectives were always so different that it seemed there was not much relaxing and we were always struggling uphill.

Good luck!
 

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Yes it was a struggle...I don't think that either one of us felt like the other one "got" the other...this resulted in a lot of energy being expensed trying to figure it out...swimming against the current.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to not have a successful relationship with a very opposite personality type...but it does come down to compatibility...:mellow:
 

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Yes, I agree. I have noticed after maturing and having had failed relationships I have started to pay attention to those I get into relationships with and those I actually get along with. I have decided that any furture investment in a relationship with be in someone more similar to me due to the face that I get along so well with people more like me.
I have nothing against others, actually...I usually went for relationships with those who were different for me.

I think I understand now from a realistic aspect vs ideal what would suit me best. Quality of live is VERY important!
 

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I hate bad news. I really do, but this pairing can suck.

Even between two healthy individuals, this pairing can be difficult. If unhealthy, it will be a disaster. In my case, after awhile, it felt like the ISTJ was trying to destroy my spirit. I've really looked at this, why we're attracted to opposites and why it can go so wrong.

Here's why:

The decisive, perfectionistic tendency in the ISTJ can seem like constant personal criticism to the ENFP.
The ENFP needs constant affirmation to feel loved... so that sucks.

The ENFP's verbalized longings and evaluating of the the relationship can seem like complaining, whining or never being satisfied to the ISTJ, even though the ENFP is only looking for new ways to make everything even more special. The ISTJ will feel ashamed, like he has failed; He will start ignoring the ENFP so as not to be reminded of 'failures.' The ENFP desperately needs attention to feel loved...so that sucks too.

As the ISTJ feels less happy, there will be more overt criticism, until the ENFP can do nothing right. The ENFP will stop approachng the ISTJ, fearing ridicule or putdowns. The very things that attracted the ISTJ to the ENFP, like her intuitively knowing how to please him, her open affection, optimism and gregariousness will begin to dissappear --or be shown only with other people. Because the ENFP's vibrant, sexy enthusiasm is so attractive to the ISTJ, seeing it disappear will give the ISTJ more reasons to criticize...and that sucks bigtime.

Eventually, the ENFP will start to hope for a relationship that will be better than this one and will become very confrontational of the ISTJ, laying the groundwork for the coming breakup. The ISTJ will know the ENFP has 'left' on some level and will feel threatened and miserable.
The ISTP needs consistent faithfulness and assurance...so that really does suck.

Emotional health and the ability to understand, and to forgive are crucial, because 'opposites' like these two can be a nightmare of misunderstanding after the novelty wears off.

Sorry, I know that's a lot to read.
 

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Even between two healthy individuals, this pairing can be difficult. If unhealthy, it will be a disaster. In my case, after awhile, it felt like the ISTJ was trying to destroy my spirit. I've really looked at this, why we're attracted to opposites and why it can go so wrong.

Here's why:

The decisive, perfectionistic tendency in the ISTJ can seem like constant personal criticism to the ENFP.
The ENFP needs constant affirmation to feel loved... so that sucks.

The ENFP's verbalized longings and evaluating of the the relationship can seem like complaining, whining or never being satisfied to the ISTJ, even though the ENFP is only looking for new ways to make everything even more special. The ISTJ will feel ashamed, like he has failed; He will start ignoring the ENFP so as not to be reminded of 'failures.' The ENFP desperately needs attention to feel loved...so that sucks too.

As the ISTJ feels less happy, there will be more overt criticism, until the ENFP can do nothing right. The ENFP will stop approachng the ISTJ, fearing ridicule or putdowns. The very things that attracted the ISTJ to the ENFP, like her intuitively knowing how to please him, her open affection, optimism and gregariousness will begin to dissappear --or be shown only with other people. Because the ENFP's vibrant, sexy enthusiasm is so attractive to the ISTJ, seeing it disappear will give the ISTJ more reasons to criticize...and that sucks bigtime.

Eventually, the ENFP will start to hope for a relationship that will be better than this one and will become very confrontational of the ISTJ, laying the groundwork for the coming breakup. The ISTJ will know the ENFP has 'left' on some level and will feel threatened and miserable.
The ISTP needs consistent faithfulness and assurance...so that really does suck.

Emotional health and the ability to understand, and to forgive are crucial, because 'opposites' like these two can be a nightmare of misunderstanding after the novelty wears off.

Sorry, I know that's a lot to read.
Is this from reading, or from personal experience?
 

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this pairing

This is from personal experience more than anything. I think problems are more likely to happen with unhealthy individuals. If you have trust issues or are insecure or demand perfect compliance to your whims, you will have trouble in any relationship. The ISTJ in question had the idea that I was an extension of him because i tried to anticipate his needs. I couldn't anticipate them perfectly though and that became a source of frustration.

As opposites we really can be misread easily, even though in a lot of ways we complement each other.
ENFPs are such free spirits which can be attractive to ISTJs but that very quality can become very frustrating to stability-minded types. A lot of love and forgiveness and understanding are important in this relationship, but not everyone is equipped with those.

I don't know if this helps; it's the way I see it but also these two are considered to be conflicted in socionics also.
 

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All in all I think any relationship type pairing can work in theory...you just have to perfect your communication approach and have alot of patience and affection....

Oh how I wish that were true, but I do not believe it. I'm the ISTJ. You describe perfectly me and my ENFP. Yes, if we work really hard at communicating, we can overcome -- for a time -- our natures. But our inclinations are always opposite and they are constantly fleeing our good intentions only to collide with one another; another frustration, another hurt feeling.
 

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There is a couple I know who is ISTJ and ENFP (Female and male respectively). They've been dating for about three years now and they seem to bicker quite a bit, but get over it really quickly. I think this is a hard combination, and one that requires a lot of patience and understanding of the other person. I, however, don't know if that's enough.
 

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I think the TJ vs. the FP is the hardest thing in this dynamic. We're literally on two different planets.
Also, I said ISTP at one point and that was a typo. I meant ISTJ.

My experiences are not the end all. I think the problems were extreme. It still goes back to forgiveness and acceptance of differences; not trying to control someone. I'd like to hear from the ones that make it work.
 

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I do not have any experiences with an ENFP romantically, but my younger brother was typed as one. We fought like cats and dogs throuought our childhood. he probably viewed me as stuck-up, critical and condenscending. I viewed him as immature, irrational and a bit of a drama queen. he through a big hissy-fit when i 'forbade' him from microwaving our families' stick of butter. (you cant do that.it makes the butter platter really nasty) We actually get along alot better now...but that is because we never see each other!! When we do, we are almost always arguing, and very rarely do we seem to get along.
 

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CallsignOwl, that's funny! I saw the same things, almost heard the same words, once! (except incredibly, it was about melting a Cadbury egg in the microwave to see what would happen.) "That's a waste of time!" was a big one. His other big one was, "I don't buy it!" after someone told him about a situation they were in. Lacking in compassion, unfortunately. It really takes maturity and self awareness to see how you can hurt people. Or to be able to see that they are different becuase of inate personality. It's good people like you are curious here.

ISTJs are drawn to our bouncy and entertaining goodheartedness and we're drawn to your stability, strength and decisiveness. I can see that.

An ENFP says to an ISTJ:
"If you know it hurts my feelings--because I've told you over and over that it does--why do you keep saying it?"
The ISTJ looks at the ENFP and says, "If you know it doesn't please me-- and I'm more important than you are because I'm right-- why do you keep doing it?"
 
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