ISTJ or INTJ?

Hmmm, this shouldn't be hard at all. N and S are the most distinguishable dimension. Most people are S type. There's only 30% of the population which is N dominant. From my analyses

If you are INTJ your dominant function would be Ni
If you are ISTJ your dominant function would be Si

Ni and Si are soooo very different.So it should be easy to differentiate them.... But first, lets look at what you have deduced....

northman said:

I guess the INTJ are supposed to be very smart ( in serious test Ive always landed somewhere around 120, not that high, most IQ test can be thought with repitition ) but never been really good at School. Atleast not in our school system where boundries where never set. No homework needed etc..

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Yes, you are right, IQ has something to do with N or S. N people tend to be smarter as they are able to grasps theories easily.

northman said:

I love to think about efficient use of materials and time. How to calculate making capital investments and depreciacion. Ive never studied it, but I would love to read about it. How to make a businesses more efficient and competetive. Im studying Social Economics, but I find it to teoretical not practical, so its very boring to me. That and with a full time job, I get very low grades.

Click to expand...

This is the J part. Nothing to do with N or S. You seem to be action oriented and like to express your logical thoughts to practical ends (Hence the Te)


Nothing much to deduce from there...
Now back to the explanation, your issue is confused between Ni and Si. Let me explain here,

Ni is the gathering ABSTRACT information from the inner world. This would most likely be a day dreaming or visioning process. If you tend to slip into imagination often... you are most likely INTJ. If you are very optimistic with new things and tend to be pessimistic with tradition, you are most likely INTJ

Si is gathering REAL information from the innerworld. This would most likely be reflecting past experience process. Si values tradition (i.e. past experience) more, They need proof before attempting something... Due to this, they tend not to take ambiguous risks

Can you give some more situations?

I also have a few questions to strike out the ambiguity
1) Are you left handed? If you are left handed you are definitely N type
2) Do you enjoy reading the theories and concepts of MBTI? Do you try to find the abstract definition of it
3) Do you value tradition. Do you enjoy doing things repetitively? Can you stand doing the same thing over and over again?

Anyway, hope this helps!:laughing:

I can paste somehting I wrote in the former post over at INTJ

"Im constantly caluculating my wage, what it would be if I worked overtime, get a raise, how much I need for retierment. Most purchases I make ( very few ) are very carfully matched to other bundles of goods to see where I get the most utility.

Thinking about things I would like to buy in a year or two, and constantly trying to find the "best" given my options, and if I couldnt get a better deal going a different route.

PS: to me this sounds like a Personality Dissorder, but hey, what do I know.

I like conclusions rather then drudging through tons of paper. I want the facts so I can prosses them in my mind. Not finding the facts myself."

Your questions:
1) Nope, right handed
2) Nope..cant say that..
3) I have no problems doing things repetitively.. because I can use that time to think about other things. Now Im thinking about work related.. as I had a job assembeling minor components when I was younger.
Tradition, yes, to some extent ( here Im thinking christmas, national holiday so I might be wrong ).

I'd say look into the differences between Ni and Si and see what matches you better. But I don't think that you can just go by some of the things that were said above (like Ns are left-handed, or that Ns are smarter than Ss).

You could take a cognitive processes test (like the Keys to Cognition test). That should at least tell you if you prefer Ni to Si, even if the order of some of the other functions isn't right. Just google Keys to Cognition (or is it Keys 2 Cognition) and you'll find the test.

Let us know if you have more questions after taking a cognitive processes test.

azrinsani said:

I also have a few questions to strike out the ambiguity
1) Are you left handed? If you are left handed you are definitely N type
2) Do you enjoy reading the theories and concepts of MBTI? Do you try to find the abstract definition of it
3) Do you value tradition. Do you enjoy doing things repetitively? Can you stand doing the same thing over and over again?

Click to expand...

I'm left-handed and an S, without a doubt. I assume this was taken because of handedness and the prominent hemisphere being used typically being opposites (left-handed people typically being right-brained with intuition and a right-handed people using the left hemisphere of logic). However, this does not always hold true. My human cognitive processes professor discussed this saying that for left-handed people if they completely turn their paper sideways while writing then they do not use an alternating hemisphere and are most likely left-brained, sticking with logic over intuition the majority of the time.

I don't have excessive data to prove this but with myself as evidence all left-handed people are not Ns, lol. Also, I'm nowhere near ambidextrous, I've used my left-hand for pretty much everything since I was a few months old, according to my parents.

Also, Ns and Ss can both fall anywhere as far as intelligence goes. The thing with Ss is that we are still capable of understanding the theories we're presented with but we're not going to go with them alone...we are probably going to remain skeptical until convincing evidence is presented. I know that personally I'm also a type 1 as far as the Enneagram, and if you need to know one thing about 1s it's that we are perfectionists and we do not like to be wrong...so I wait for evidence to surface before I jump on an intuition or emotion.

Haha, sorry, I got on a bit of a rant there...

azrinsani said:

Yes, you are right, IQ has something to do with N or S. N people tend to be smarter as they are able to grasps theories easily.

This is the J part. Nothing to do with N or S. You seem to be action oriented and like to express your logical thoughts to practical ends (Hence the Te)

Nothing much to deduce from there...
Now back to the explanation, your issue is confused between Ni and Si. Let me explain here,

Ni is the gathering ABSTRACT information from the inner world. This would most likely be a day dreaming or visioning process. If you tend to slip into imagination often... you are most likely INTJ. If you are very optimistic with new things and tend to be pessimistic with tradition, you are most likely INTJ

Si is gathering REAL information from the innerworld. This would most likely be reflecting past experience process. Si values tradition (i.e. past experience) more, They need proof before attempting something... Due to this, they tend not to take ambiguous risks

Can you give some more situations?

I also have a few questions to strike out the ambiguity
1) Are you left handed? If you are left handed you are definitely N type
2) Do you enjoy reading the theories and concepts of MBTI? Do you try to find the abstract definition of it
3) Do you value tradition. Do you enjoy doing things repetitively? Can you stand doing the same thing over and over again?

Anyway, hope this helps!:laughing:

Click to expand...

Much of this is in error!

northman said:

I also posted this over at INTJ forum.

I have taken 6 different MB tests the last day, and 4 say Im a INTJ while two say ISTJ.

So, how do I know what I am? It seems more to be of wording type of thing. Since English is my second language how the question is asked may affect how I answer the question.

Its the N or S question I get the different readings on. The other three are very stable.

I guess the INTJ are supposed to be very smart ( in serious test Ive always landed somewhere around 120, not that high, most IQ test can be thought with repitition ) but never been really good at School. Atleast not in our school system where boundries where never set. No homework needed etc..

I love to think about efficient use of materials and time. How to calculate making capital investments and depreciacion. Ive never studied it, but I would love to read about it. How to make a businesses more efficient and competetive. Im studying Social Economics, but I find it to teoretical not practical, so its very boring to me. That and with a full time job, I get very low grades.

Could anybody direct me somewhere I could find out if Im more inclined to N or S?

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Testing is just part of the process, as you've discovered. You should also educate yourself as to what the cognitive processes are and mean, and which processes you find more comfortable by description.

Start by reading ISTJ descriptions. Some of these are wacked out, but you won't go wrong if you read what Grey has posted:

ISTJ Articles - PersonalityCafe

Then read INTJ descriptions. Same thing, but this time dealing with INTJs:

INTJ Articles - PersonalityCafe

Which one seems to describe you (as you are--not as you'd like to be) more?

Then read this thread for a discussion of the cognitive functions:

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/20086-summary-cognitive-functions.html

Avoid stereotypes--especially negatives--about any personality type. The superiority of the blue-eyed Aryan race was disproven some time ago. :wink:

Unless you are blond haired, blue-eyed, over six foot, and left handed. Then we know that you are a E/I,N/S,T/F,J/P type.:crazy:

I read a post about answering the complete opposite of what I would normaly do.

So, I answerd completely backwards, and I got:

Your type is
E S F P
% wise
89 12 88 33


I read some links you posted niss63, and I found this to really suit me (INTJ): but I cant post links before my 10 post, but its written by Grey, and called Masterminds: the INTJ personality


One thing Im currious about though.. while it seems Im in this group, I struggle with getting good grades. This can come from me not never doing homework. I was just never pushed to it, not by school or parents. I was just happy living inside my mind, creating fantasy worlds. But, funny enough, all my friends are doctors, psychologists, masters in Math, Nano tec, petroleum.. and myself struggeling to pass in Sos.Economy.

I cant seem to focus my mind when its not somehing I really enjoy, and instead think of stuff I enjoy. I can understand the models they teach us at school, but I suck at explaining them, thuss the poor grades I get. Wich is really sucking the fun out of studying.. this does not sound like a INTJ.

Im however good at picking up small stubbs of information and see bigger pictures. But since Im not able to use this in a school setting, atleast not with good grades, Im a afraid I will never get the oppertunity to work in a field I would love.

firedancer42 said:

I'm left-handed and an S, without a doubt. I assume this was taken because of handedness and the prominent hemisphere being used typically being opposites (left-handed people typically being right-brained with intuition and a right-handed people using the left hemisphere of logic). However, this does not always hold true.

Click to expand...

My human cognitive processes professor discussed this saying that for left-handed people if they completely turn their paper sideways while writing then they do not use an alternating hemisphere and are most likely left-brained, sticking with logic over intuition the majority of the time.

I don't have excessive data to prove this but with myself as evidence all left-handed people are not Ns, lol. Also, I'm nowhere near ambidextrous, I've used my left-hand for pretty much everything since I was a few months old, according to my parents.

Also, Ns and Ss can both fall anywhere as far as intelligence goes. The thing with Ss is that we are still capable of understanding the theories we're presented with but we're not going to go with them alone...we are probably going to remain skeptical until convincing evidence is presented. I know that personally I'm also a type 1 as far as the Enneagram, and if you need to know one thing about 1s it's that we are perfectionists and we do not like to be wrong...so I wait for evidence to surface before I jump on an intuition or emotion.

Haha, sorry, I got on a bit of a rant there...[/QUOTE]

Hi Firedancer,

It's not a rant,it's a great reply. Thanks. Awh man, your explanation is just awesome.

I guess I was wrong about the right hand and left hand thing. Left handed can still be S type.

It's probably just how we weigh informations. I guess one can come up with the most imaginative solution yet he may weigh traditional solutions higher

By the way, your professor may be right. I am left handed and I always twist the paper sideways. It seems to help when I try to do math subjects. Didn't care to explain why until now :wink:

But being left handed, do you find yourself having a wild imagination? Do you day dream always?

northman said:

One thing Im currious about though.. while it seems Im in this group, I struggle with getting good grades. This can come from me not never doing homework. I was just never pushed to it, not by school or parents. I was just happy living inside my mind, creating fantasy worlds. But, funny enough, all my friends are doctors, psychologists, masters in Math, Nano tec, petroleum.. and myself struggeling to pass in Sos.Economy.

I cant seem to focus my mind when its not somehing I really enjoy, and instead think of stuff I enjoy. I can understand the models they teach us at school, but I suck at explaining them, thuss the poor grades I get. Wich is really sucking the fun out of studying.. this does not sound like a INTJ.

Im however good at picking up small stubbs of information and see bigger pictures. But since Im not able to use this in a school setting, atleast not with good grades, Im a afraid I will never get the oppertunity to work in a field I would love.

Click to expand...

One of my best friends is an INTJ, and he has the same problem as this.

He's pretty good at understanding the models right out of the gates, but he is terrible at applying them in any way to the physical world, or even to word problems. He has a really hard time studying, because he has this odd type of arrogance where he seems to think he is above all the minor details that build up the support network for the theory he is studying. So he'll get the broad-range idea, but fail to answer the definition questions, or practical questions on exams. Then he whines about how much smarter he is than everyone else, even though he barely passes. =P He never does the homework either.

The never doing homework is just pure laziness. The only cure for that is discipline.

Secondly, I am sure that if you never did any homework, and weren't forced to, you have never learned good study skills. So, some people study for hours and hours then fail, because their strategy is poor. You need to find a website on how to study. If you're in math and science courses, I can send you some. But, it appears you are not in sciences.

azrinsani said:

Hi Firedancer,

It's not a rant,it's a great reply. Thanks. Awh man, your explanation is just awesome.

I guess I was wrong about the right hand and left hand thing. Left handed can still be S type.

It's probably just how we weigh informations. I guess one can come up with the most imaginative solution yet he may weigh traditional solutions higher

By the way, your professor may be right. I am left handed and I always twist the paper sideways. It seems to help when I try to do math subjects. Didn't care to explain why until now :wink:

But being left handed, do you find yourself having a wild imagination? Do you day dream always?

Click to expand...

First, thanks for the positive feedback! To answer your question about daydreaming and imagination I have always found it easy to use these things as well as logic (as a more definitive decision-making tool) when I am working on any sort of project. I've always been pretty creative, enjoying things like painting and photography. Also, when writing papers, even those of a research nature, I always try to add in unique tie-ins to make it more interesting.

While I use logic for my decisions on the whole my interests are usually abstract, subject-wise, including psychology, theology, and literature at the top of the list. They're not nearly as fact-oriented as something like math but still have their own aspects of logic and fact to be considered at their roots.

Putting me an S over an N comes from my personal survey and perpetual analysis of my environment in comparison to the past. While I do have a strong intuition about things I go with it far less than the concrete facts and experiences I have previously found to be accurate or at least the better option.

I hope that's something like what you were looking for, thanks again!

While I'm better with concrete facts, I can achieve understanding of theories very easily as well - I just cut the abstract down into concrete pieces that I can consume with more elegance. Call me an abnormal ISTJ, but saying N's are supposed to be smarter is a subjective statement. I think intelligence is way deeper than the choice between S and N.

You state yourself that you prefer practical over theoretical, you prefer conclusions, you prefer facts. I think that's what pushes you over the S/N border to the S side.

Flipit said:

While I'm better with concrete facts, I can achieve understanding of theories very easily as well - I just cut the abstract down into concrete pieces that I can consume with more elegance. Call me an abnormal ISTJ, but saying N's are supposed to be smarter is a subjective statement. I think intelligence is way deeper than the choice between S and N.

You state yourself that you prefer practical over theoretical, you prefer conclusions, you prefer facts. I think that's what pushes you over the S/N border to the S side.

Click to expand...

Agreed. True intelligence requires incorporating theory AND fact to grasp knowledge in deeper ways.

I got a message saying I shoud do a Ennagram test, to figure out what I might be. Well I took one three years ago, and the same test today.

Here are my results

3 years ago:
1: Type 5 & 6, 23points each
2: Type 1, 19points
3: Type 4, 18points
4: Type 3, 16points
5: Type 9, 15points

Today:
1: Type 6, 24points
2: Type 1, 21points
3: Type 4, 20points
4: Type 9, 19points
5: Type 5, 18points


What would you guys make out of this.. there is not alot of points between the rankings but, 1 and 6 are high up on both tests. 4 is steady (atleast in ranking).

After reading the description of the 6, it kind of fits. Im making back up plans on back up plans. Planning years in advance, like to be self reliant, suspicious and enjoy working with women.

northman said:

I also posted this over at INTJ forum.

I have taken 6 different MB tests the last day, and 4 say Im a INTJ while two say ISTJ.

So, how do I know what I am? It seems more to be of wording type of thing. Since English is my second language how the question is asked may affect how I answer the question.

Its the N or S question I get the different readings on. The other three are very stable.

I guess the INTJ are supposed to be very smart ( in serious test Ive always landed somewhere around 120, not that high, most IQ test can be thought with repitition ) but never been really good at School. Atleast not in our school system where boundries where never set. No homework needed etc..

I love to think about efficient use of materials and time. How to calculate making capital investments and depreciacion. Ive never studied it, but I would love to read about it. How to make a businesses more efficient and competetive. Im studying Social Economics, but I find it to teoretical not practical, so its very boring to me. That and with a full time job, I get very low grades.

Could anybody direct me somewhere I could find out if Im more inclined to N or S?

Click to expand...

i think ur more inclined to N, coz my husb is just like u, he likes calculating capital investments n depreciation, how to make business efficient etc although his background is engineering. He is ENTJ.

Well..

Since I didnt have anything else to do yesterday, I spent most of the day on this forum and reading about different personalities. So after taking this Ennagram test again (at ennagraminstitue.com) after 3 years, I took 4 more at 4 different sites. All those say Im a 1.

Now, Im really sceptical about all this. How come they differ so much? I mean, I can agree with some of the Type 6. But clearly not all.

Oh, and I actually paid for the personality test at personality.info

I: 95%
N: 63%
T: 89%
J: 68%

IQ types:

Intrapersonel: 80%
Logic/math: 80%
Kinesthetic: 74%
Naturalist: 74%