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Hey, @FreeSpirit777

(I assume you want a general answer to the clash instead of something for your experiences specifically)

I love INFJs (well, I tend to love them, obviously I wouldn't like ones who were rude or something.) This is a bit biased though, as my younger Sister is one and we have a very close bond; you can't reasonably expect everyone to match the same banner of course. But because of this connection, I suppose it makes me more open to INFJs.

I not sure what you mean by "response" so you may have to clarify. But again, the overall approach:

I think it would be silly for the two types to avoid each other out of "oh, we're opposites, so we can't get along" when any two peaceable individuals can get along.

INFJs can understandably be annoyed by the ISTJ tendency to compare and contrast many things to the past while considering the future less; after all, they are Ni doms, whereas we are Si doms and obviously there's gonna be conflicts there. ISTJs will be annoyed for the same reason.

I suppose a big reason ISTJs can be put off by INFJs are in situations where an INFJ believes to have a deeper, more complex way of viewing things, and can come off as "holier than thou." Maybe it's the Fi in us, but we hate being generalized or stereotyped, and will often respond to such treatment with a "well you clearly don't have a deeper understanding if you quickly assume things about another individual like that."

And war ensues. And the peaceful alternative is forgotten quickly.

I really don't think it has to be that way, even if they're likely to clash. It's clear, at least to me, that we both stand to gain much more by letting those differences bounce off each other, instead of "clash."

The relationship I have with my INFJ sister is one of the most priceless relationships I have, and we work pretty well together in spite of, or more likely because of, these differences.

(My response to an ISTJ holding onto the clash, aka something that can worm it's way into myself and even my relationship with my sis at times? Get. Over. It. Let it go. Some, no, MOST things, matter more than petty disputes and it serves no purpose to hold grudges. You're better for it, and so your relationships will also be, so move on. Even if your initial INFJ "encounter" fails, it's likely you'll eventually meet one you'll become friends with, so don't paint them all the same color and discern case by case.)
 

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I love INFJs (well, I tend to love them, obviously I wouldn't like ones who were rude or something.) This is a bit biased though, as my younger Sister is one and we have a very close bond; you can't reasonably expect everyone to match the same banner of course. But because of this connection, I suppose it makes me more open to INFJs.
I'll add my input too. Yeah, I tend to like INFJs too ("love" is a strong word, especially now that I've had some quite bad experiences lately with some of them). My sister might or might not be INFJ lol, she's INFx for sure.


INFJs can understandably be annoyed by the ISTJ tendency to compare and contrast many things to the past while considering the future less; after all, they are Ni doms, whereas we are Si doms and obviously there's gonna be conflicts there. ISTJs will be annoyed for the same reason.
Well how I experience this is that they get annoyed that they have an overall perception of the situation already while I want a detailed description or explanation.


I suppose a big reason ISTJs can be put off by INFJs are in situations where an INFJ believes to have a deeper, more complex way of viewing things, and can come off as "holier than thou." Maybe it's the Fi in us, but we hate being generalized or stereotyped, and will often respond to such treatment with a "well you clearly don't have a deeper understanding if you quickly assume things about another individual like that."
Ha yeah, totally agree here. Idk if it's Fi, but I sure dislike it.


And war ensues. And the peaceful alternative is forgotten quickly.
Tbh I perceive the clashes more over our different brands of logic. But yeah the above plays into it as well... I seem to really offend them with my logical corrections (that are not criticism actually) or explanations of what they feel is unnecessary to explain, for whatever reason... even though I do see that they did miss or failed to apply important systematic details/rules. And I do get pissed off when they try to claim they see into me so well. But I get bothered over that less often on average, than they do over my brand of logic, I think. Maybe because they are the Feelers after all. ;p


I really don't think it has to be that way, even if they're likely to clash. It's clear, at least to me, that we both stand to gain much more by letting those differences bounce off each other, instead of "clash."
Yes. I might be able to work it out with one of them now, that we just need to move on when these differences come up, instead of getting stuck in a clash and a drawn-out argument. That btw seems to be stressful to them longer than to me. They'll hold on to resentment way longer while I'm able to have it out in the open pretty quickly once I see I'm having a problem (I attempt to discuss it in a constructive way of course). Then I easily let go of the emotion and move on. But they... they can blow up much later and ruin things way more that way. Of course, I can also be guilty of not being able to move on quickly until I feel we've discussed the issue enough. But at least I can bring it up in time before it gets worse.


The relationship I have with my INFJ sister is one of the most priceless relationships I have, and we work pretty well together in spite of, or more likely because of, these differences.
Mind giving me (and possibly other ISTJs and INFJs) a nice list of points of advice if you have any such thing, on how to manage these INFJ relationships? Maybe it'll help that INFJ too that I'm working with trying to figure out how to avoid all these issues.


(My response to an ISTJ holding onto the clash, aka something that can worm it's way into myself and even my relationship with my sis at times? Get. Over. It. Let it go. Some, no, MOST things, matter more than petty disputes and it serves no purpose to hold grudges. You're better for it, and so your relationships will also be, so move on. Even if your initial INFJ "encounter" fails, it's likely you'll eventually meet one you'll become friends with, so don't paint them all the same color and discern case by case.)
Yeah, I don't hold grudges, but by default I'm not able to move on from an issue until I feel it was discussed down to all its details. And yes it possibly stresses out the INFJ even more, the same INFJ that's already holding in some unresolved grudges and resentment (before blowing up), it's going to build more and more, I guess... I'm not sure, I've been thinking about this recently.

So, your tips for moving on/letting it go? I have tried just telling that myself but that does not work. The problem comes back worse 5 minutes later.

Thanks if by any chance you do read this and can give input.

EDIT: Rethinking this, yeah I see you are suggesting prioritizing what's important but, that's the thing... I get stuck and unable to evaluate what is a big thing and what's not a big thing. ...Oh, and, as for the last part about finding an INFJ that I can be friends with... Well... very doubtful about that. Maybe I can if I keep a certain amount of distance with them. But truly close friends?
 

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One of my best friends is an INFJ. She's really awesome, very caring, helpful, a great listener and overall a very giving person. Wonderful traits that draw people to her.

However, when we clash, it gets pretty bad. We're both very opinionated, and usually don't back down once somebody gets the ball rolling. I believe it's a direct clash of Thinking vs Feeling and also Te vs Ti. I usually argue by stating the facts, like here is why I think this: 1, 2, 3, etc. For her, she simply states she doesn't think so and kind of has her own personal logic? Very feeling based I would say.

It can get pretty ugly, so it's important to take a step back and re-evaluate all the important parts of the relationship and weigh it against the point of the clash. Is it even worth it? If not, then why not just back off and let it go? It would be terribly unfortunate and sad to destroy a relationship over something insignificant and irrelevant.
 

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However, when we clash, it gets pretty bad. We're both very opinionated, and usually don't back down once somebody gets the ball rolling. I believe it's a direct clash of Thinking vs Feeling and also Te vs Ti. I usually argue by stating the facts, like here is why I think this: 1, 2, 3, etc. For her, she simply states she doesn't think so and kind of has her own personal logic? Very feeling based I would say.
I actually find INFJs are able to state their facts too. They are quite decent at being logical to some point. That's not the direct reason for why I run into issues with some of them in arguments. Indirectly yeah, them being less into logic is a cause for it.

What it looks like though is this, they either find I'm too persistent in arguing my point, or they are offended that they get to feel like I don't accept their perspective as just another perspective coexisting with mine. Or they are offended if they feel I corrected their logic or that I explained something where they think they already know the facts - they just don't realize that the issue is that they failed to apply the rules I'm explaining. Their failing to do so is what makes me point out what logical rules need to be paid attention to.

Btw, I don't argue in your style. I'm more like, I often just state my conclusions as my opinions. If someone wants to know why I have these judgments and conclusions, they'll have to ask me for more information and reasoning about them.


It can get pretty ugly, so it's important to take a step back and re-evaluate all the important parts of the relationship and weigh it against the point of the clash. Is it even worth it? If not, then why not just back off and let it go? It would be terribly unfortunate and sad to destroy a relationship over something insignificant and irrelevant.
This advice is nice, thanks. The issue for me though is that I don't really want to let go some things just for Feeling-related concerns. I don't want to hold back some of my judgments on some issues just for that. Also it is because my line of thinking is like, why would a few silly arguments destroy the entire relationship... And actually, yeah, with some, the arguments get really heated but it doesn't on its own cause a problem for the entire relationship. They might temporarily dislike the fact that there was a heated argument but this on its own doesn't linger too much, as far as my experience with these people goes.

Where I've had issues with the relationship itself is when they disliked something they felt was criticism about their person (it wasn't), including feeling criticized by my explaining stuff, or when they took personally some corrections or opinions expressed by me in general (that is, it was never actually about their person), and then they got resentment developed and then blew up later (assertiveness issues).

The other main issue affecting and endangering the relationship itself would be when they felt there was too much obligation. I seem to have more expectations than they do and then they feel too obligated. Also, they seem to have a hard time saying "no" or something (again, assertiveness issues) and then they try to take on stuff as an obligation where it does not even need to be an obligation and then again blow up later. This latter issue I was recently able to solve with one of them, though. Not with another one... because she was completely caught up in her Ni vision about the situation that was wrong, mismatching reality.

I've seen each one of these patterns play out with at least two INFJs. Not necessarily all of them together for each INFJ, though, and I did not have a real problem with some INFJs, but with the latter ones, a factor is that we didn't even try to be as close as with others. So overall it's type + other factors...
 

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What it looks like though is this, they either find I'm too persistent in arguing my point, or they are offended that they get to feel like I don't accept their perspective as just another perspective coexisting with mine. Or they are offended if they feel I corrected their logic or that I explained something where they think they already know the facts - they just don't realize that the issue is that they failed to apply the rules I'm explaining. Their failing to do so is what makes me point out what logical rules need to be paid attention to.
Yes, I think this is what I was trying to say, although I didn't really elaborate. I won't really have an issue stating my opinion or stance with supporting evidence, as I usually don't have a stance unless I have supporting evidence. However, my INFJ friend finds me driving the point home upsetting. She feels backed against a wall when I do this. To me, it's just a natural part of a debate.

I'm a pretty consistent person. If X applies to Y, then Y applies to X. So if I find inconsistencies, I'm going to point it out in a debate. It's just rightly so, in my opinion. However, my experience with my INFJ friend is similar to what you described above.
 

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Yes, I think this is what I was trying to say, although I didn't really elaborate. I won't really have an issue stating my opinion or stance with supporting evidence, as I usually don't have a stance unless I have supporting evidence. However, my INFJ friend finds me driving the point home upsetting. She feels backed against a wall when I do this. To me, it's just a natural part of a debate.

I'm a pretty consistent person. If X applies to Y, then Y applies to X. So if I find inconsistencies, I'm going to point it out in a debate. It's just rightly so, in my opinion. However, my experience with my INFJ friend is similar to what you described above.
I wonder if it's just immaturity of some sort besides type. Like I said above, not all INFJs get offended over this stuff. One of them I know (I'm 95% sure of INFJ for this person) will usually be able to keep up the argument forever. He just gets very loud and emotional at the same time lol. Then I have to raise my voice too to match that loudness so I get heard... :p (It looks funny I guess, him looking emotional and loud and me looking just dry but still loud and engaged in a sense even if not in the directly emotional way if that makes sense.) But he can continue responding alright. Funny bit, recently I did find an argument to really show how he was not correct about something, after quite a while of arguing about this something, and he went like "ah it doesn't matter", and turned away really quickly, with some little weird smile. :) But I was pretty sure he got the idea behind my argument and just wanted to think about it.

EDIT: I thought of some other possible factor. With the INFJ that I got to sort things out with recently, whether she takes this stuff personally also depends on how much she trusts the person, I think, in terms of whether the person is on their side in general. She trusts me more now, and it helps. I guess this is where her Feeling function comes out, that is, it affects her attitude towards an argument that I don't see as related at all to who is saying it. The other INFJ as above, he doesn't have a problem with trusting me, I guess.
 

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@grumpytiger
Tbh I perceive the clashes more over our different brands of logic. But yeah the above plays into it as well... I seem to really offend them with my logical corrections (that are not criticism actually) or explanations of what they feel is unnecessary to explain, for whatever reason... even though I do see that they did miss or failed to apply important systematic details/rules. And I do get pissed off when they try to claim they see into me so well. But I get bothered over that less often on average, than they do over my brand of logic, I think. Maybe because they are the Feelers after all. ;p
I can relate, lol! Sometimes I wish they would be more accepting of facts/details and not quickly believe its a criticism. I usually feel like such things add to the discussion, but INFJs don't always agree. I also think they sometimes claim to see into me/ others when the evidence reveals a different story. (like they assume I feel a certain way when its truly the opposite.)

Mind giving me (and possibly other ISTJs and INFJs) a nice list of points of advice if you have any such thing, on how to manage these INFJ relationships? Maybe it'll help that INFJ too that I'm working with trying to figure out how to avoid all these issues.
I'll do my best (;

-When an issue pops up, try to address it as kindly and as soon as possible. something you already seem good at! I find being up front keeps things honest and most importantly doesn't leave things open to drama.

- Both ISTJs and INFJs seem to hate drama, so definitely avoid it, again, by being honest about disagreements.

- Find common ground; easiest way being shared introversion. Maybe joke about having to spend too much time with big groups recently to lighten the mood.

- We also share Judging, or a strong need to organize certain things externally, so be willing to "organize" your discussions; you will want to organize the logical part of the topics more, while the INFJ will tend to organize the emotional, human side more.

- Si and Ni, in discussion, is best when utilized in give and take. So when you spend a few minutes explaining things in detail, its only fair and natural for the INFJ to spend a few minutes in response by explaining topic in a more abstract form. This back and forth is important as it gives both parties opportunity to explain and listen (and naturally, spending an hour with purely Ni discussion its going to leave you tired and confused and vice versa, so switching every few minutes will keep things coherent for both parties!)

- Periodically engage your inferior functions (se and ne) for fun, or to even rant about their annoying effects! It can be fun and relatable as these functions can offer good things, but also irritating things and both types seem to love joking about them. So just play around with it when the mood strikes.

- Be open enough to let INFJ know that there are things that deeply matter to you, and that your Fi is indeed crucial to your sense of self. Sometimes even INFJs may assume ISTJs are too cold to care about anything on a deep level, so make sure they are reminded that this is NOT the case. Likewise, never treat an INFJ as less intelligent because they dislike such attitudes and believe anyone can be smart or stupid. (which we probably both agree on.)

- Talk about your artistic/ creative pursuits. This is a very fun thing to share with one another; personal hobbies or passions are also great points of discussion.

- Don't fear using your Te; just always be polite in your demeanor and most INFJs won't think your rude or whatever. The moment they seem to be offended, quickly state it was not your intention, and again, I find the average INFJ is fine once more.

Yeah, I don't hold grudges, but by default I'm not able to move on from an issue until I feel it was discussed down to all its details. And yes it possibly stresses out the INFJ even more, the same INFJ that's already holding in some unresolved grudges and resentment (before blowing up), it's going to build more and more, I guess... I'm not sure, I've been thinking about this recently.

So, your tips for moving on/letting it go? I have tried just telling that myself but that does not work. The problem comes back worse 5 minutes later.

Thanks if by any chance you do read this and can give input.

EDIT: Rethinking this, yeah I see you are suggesting prioritizing what's important but, that's the thing... I get stuck and unable to evaluate what is a big thing and what's not a big thing. ...Oh, and, as for the last part about finding an INFJ that I can be friends with... Well... very doubtful about that. Maybe I can if I keep a certain amount of distance with them. But truly close friends?
Again, I relate, especially with not feeling satisfied if a topic wasn't explained in full detail or fact. It may actually be harder for the ISTJ to evaluate what the big problem even is, since we don't possess Ni. To me, I guess its about being willing to preserve a relationship over a mild disagreement. But naturally, if disagreements are all any 2 individuals have, and one refuses to be civil, I would probably walk away from that. I try to be a peaceable person online, but if someone else clearly doesn't care about being a peaceful person there's really nothing I (or anyone else) can do about it.

So I guess you have to be the judge of situations like that, to do your best, and walk away if you feel its the wisest thing to do. As for finding an INFJ friend, that can be hard IRL because they are pretty rare, but here on PerC I've talked with many INFJs who would make great friends online or irl, if we were fortunate enough to meet. I have no doubt you'd eventually find an awesome INFJ to be a friend to you if you look around long enough. They are quite numerous on the subforum, lol.

Anyway, hope this helped in some way, feel free to question further.
 

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@grumpytiger

I can relate, lol! Sometimes I wish they would be more accepting of facts/details and not quickly believe its a criticism. I usually feel like such things add to the discussion, but INFJs don't always agree. I also think they sometimes claim to see into me/ others when the evidence reveals a different story. (like they assume I feel a certain way when its truly the opposite.)
Oh yeah that's very annoying with the latter. The former doesn't annoy me that much.


I'll do my best (;
Thanks for the effort. :)

BTW. With the INFJ that I was working with, it seems like it is going to be fine. :) Another one nah... hopeless cause.


-When an issue pops up, try to address it as kindly and as soon as possible. something you already seem good at! I find being up front keeps things honest and most importantly doesn't leave things open to drama.
I'm ok with that part but if they don't react right to it, I'll get angry and show it too easily. Ah well, it can still lead to resolution if the other party can take a bit of anger. If they can't, then no. I figure that they won't accept me anyway on the whole then. They either accept me with my angry-forceful side or not, that's not up to me.


- Both ISTJs and INFJs seem to hate drama, so definitely avoid it, again, by being honest about disagreements.
That one is ok, we both (with that INFJ that things are working out with) are honest there. We both have been willing to dig deep to figure out issues.


- Find common ground; easiest way being shared introversion. Maybe joke about having to spend too much time with big groups recently to lighten the mood.
Idk you are making me feel too extraverted now with this one. :laughing:


- We also share Judging, or a strong need to organize certain things externally, so be willing to "organize" your discussions; you will want to organize the logical part of the topics more, while the INFJ will tend to organize the emotional, human side more.
Sure I do this, but these INFJs are not always accepting of it...


- Si and Ni, in discussion, is best when utilized in give and take. So when you spend a few minutes explaining things in detail, its only fair and natural for the INFJ to spend a few minutes in response by explaining topic in a more abstract form. This back and forth is important as it gives both parties opportunity to explain and listen (and naturally, spending an hour with purely Ni discussion its going to leave you tired and confused and vice versa, so switching every few minutes will keep things coherent for both parties!)
I like that idea but I guess the other party has to be willing... one of them wasn't any good with this. With the one I was actively sorting things out with, it already worked/works like this automatically. :)


- Periodically engage your inferior functions (se and ne) for fun, or to even rant about their annoying effects! It can be fun and relatable as these functions can offer good things, but also irritating things and both types seem to love joking about them. So just play around with it when the mood strikes.
What does it look like engaging Ne? What annoying effects for example?


- Be open enough to let INFJ know that there are things that deeply matter to you, and that your Fi is indeed crucial to your sense of self. Sometimes even INFJs may assume ISTJs are too cold to care about anything on a deep level, so make sure they are reminded that this is NOT the case. Likewise, never treat an INFJ as less intelligent because they dislike such attitudes and believe anyone can be smart or stupid. (which we probably both agree on.)
Apparently it depends on the INFJ as to how well they take that... With the one that things are working out with after all, she doesn't mind, another one disliked that Fi stuff very much. If that one is even INFJ, anyway...


- Talk about your artistic/ creative pursuits. This is a very fun thing to share with one another; personal hobbies or passions are also great points of discussion.
I get the sense that with the "bad" INFJ (where working out the issues totally failed) this would have saved things. But I am just not creative.


- Don't fear using your Te; just always be polite in your demeanor and most INFJs won't think your rude or whatever. The moment they seem to be offended, quickly state it was not your intention, and again, I find the average INFJ is fine once more.
I can't always be totally reserved polite lol, I can turn very judgmental. I can't always hold back my opinions, really, that's not realistic. But yah these INFJs don't like it much. But yeah offending them isn't the intent.


Again, I relate, especially with not feeling satisfied if a topic wasn't explained in full detail or fact.
By not moving on from an issue I didn't mean explaining whatever topic in detail. I mean interpersonal issues. I don't even need all topics explained in full detail btw, just when it comes to information on some people stuff, I guess.


It may actually be harder for the ISTJ to evaluate what the big problem even is, since we don't possess Ni. To me, I guess its about being willing to preserve a relationship over a mild disagreement.
No one in their right mind would cut out someone over a mild disagreement. That was never my issue here.


But naturally, if disagreements are all any 2 individuals have, and one refuses to be civil, I would probably walk away from that. I try to be a peaceable person online, but if someone else clearly doesn't care about being a peaceful person there's really nothing I (or anyone else) can do about it.
I don't care about peace all that much. That was never my issue here.


So I guess you have to be the judge of situations like that, to do your best, and walk away if you feel its the wisest thing to do. As for finding an INFJ friend, that can be hard IRL because they are pretty rare, but here on PerC I've talked with many INFJs who would make great friends online or irl, if we were fortunate enough to meet. I have no doubt you'd eventually find an awesome INFJ to be a friend to you if you look around long enough. They are quite numerous on the subforum, lol.
The thing is, where I talked about inability to move on - it's the exact opposite of walking away. I dislike walking away from issues anyway. Anyway I sense we have a bit of a different approach to all this, but that's OK.

And I was unclear then, I did not mean specifically trying to find an INFJ friend. I don't care to, honestly. I meant having the friendship continue to work on a closer distance with the ones I already know.


Anyway, hope this helped in some way, feel free to question further.
Thanks again, I think I only have those couple of questions I asked now.
 

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@grumpytiger oh, I see, guess my suggestions weren't the best given your specific predicament. I'm still a bit unsure about the specific issue with this INFJ, I was answering more with the idea being how to resolve minor issues, build friendship, general stuff. But obviously it's bigger and more complicated than that.

What does it look like engaging Ne? What annoying effects for example?
It varies with each person. I've commonly observed it as talking about different, sometimes odd, topics, not focusing on one overarching idea. I think INFJs like this because it's the more intuitive side of us, and they are intuitives who can value that. I guess it could be the creative side, the side that's more laidback, not as stringent with rules. Ne annoying affects could be that ISTJs aren't as proficient in using it as other functions, thus may feel awkward using it too much; it can also cause you to assume the worst about the future or unknowns.

I get the sense that with the "bad" INFJ (where working out the issues totally failed) this would have saved things. But I am just not creative.
It can anything you have an interest in, really. Talking about things you like can create a nice atmosphere in itself.

I can't always be totally reserved polite lol, I can turn very judgmental. I can't always hold back my opinions, really, that's not realistic. But yah these INFJs don't like it much. But yeah offending them isn't the intent.
If an INFJ gets offended simply by your opinions, it's usually their fault for not first trying to understand your opinion before passing their judgement. I don't recommend hiding your opinions, everyone has them and if someone gets offended early on, at least you'll know that they may not be the person you can be around.

By not moving on from an issue I didn't mean explaining whatever topic in detail. I mean interpersonal issues. I don't even need all topics explained in full detail btw, just when it comes to information on some people stuff, I guess.
Can you offer an example on the "people stuff" you find hard to let go of? (More my curiosity then anything, haha.)

I don't care about peace all that much. That was never my issue here.
Perhaps "reasonable" is a better word. An unreasonable person won't listen to what you have to say and because of that the conversation itself can't be reasonable, even when you are. Kinda a paradox now that I reconsider this whole relationship issue.

The thing is, where I talked about inability to move on - it's the exact opposite of walking away. I dislike walking away from issues anyway. Anyway I sense we have a bit of a different approach to all this, but that's OK.

And I was unclear then, I did not mean specifically trying to find an INFJ friend. I don't care to, honestly. I meant having the friendship continue to work on a closer distance with the ones I already know.
I thought that was your main point and that the finding a new friend was simply an additional point, though obviously I was still wrong.

Walking away definitely sucks, and should only be done if there really is nothing else to do. I usually stay with things to their end, but once in a long while a situation will come up that makes me realize I have better, more productive things to do than this debate. Maybe even that isn't walking away, but just putting it on hold in case the tides change?

Definitely sounds like you're in a tricky situation regardless. I hope you can reach the best outcome, whatever that might be.
 

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@grumpytiger oh, I see, guess my suggestions weren't the best given your specific predicament. I'm still a bit unsure about the specific issue with this INFJ, I was answering more with the idea being how to resolve minor issues, build friendship, general stuff. But obviously it's bigger and more complicated than that.
Yeah, you got that right that it's more complicated than that. I'm not as unaware of relationship dynamics as that. :)


It varies with each person. I've commonly observed it as talking about different, sometimes odd, topics, not focusing on one overarching idea. I think INFJs like this because it's the more intuitive side of us, and they are intuitives who can value that. I guess it could be the creative side, the side that's more laidback, not as stringent with rules. Ne annoying affects could be that ISTJs aren't as proficient in using it as other functions, thus may feel awkward using it too much; it can also cause you to assume the worst about the future or unknowns.
I never focus on an overarching idea... so I'm not sure I follow you here, sorry. ?? :confused: What was that part supposed to mean?


It can anything you have an interest in, really. Talking about things you like can create a nice atmosphere in itself.
Only if the other party is interested too.


If an INFJ gets offended simply by your opinions, it's usually their fault for not first trying to understand your opinion before passing their judgement. I don't recommend hiding your opinions, everyone has them and if someone gets offended early on, at least you'll know that they may not be the person you can be around.
Agreed on this. The particular INFJ I am thinking of would take offense sometimes but not that often. The real problem was her Ni vision being unrealistic when she felt obligated about something too much. Also somewhat like a covert narcissistic's grandiose visions instead of paying at least minimal attention to their friend.


Can you offer an example on the "people stuff" you find hard to let go of? (More my curiosity then anything, haha.)
Any conflict that I'm taking personally is hard to let go of until I discussed all of it with the other party, trying to find a resolution, trying to fix the issue. Even when others would just simply let go and move on.

This is when I get into those details. Primarily because of unawareness of some feelings, I think. Mainly my own feelings. I noticed it helps less if I try to force myself to pay attention to the other person's feelings, that doesn't work, unless it's all totally in my face in an obvious way, maybe...

If I don't take it personally then I don't have this problem.

Sorry can't think of a very specific situation to give you an example atm. But it would be, for example, anything where it feels like I was personally targeted with some comment. Or signs indicating lack of caring. Or signs that I may have offended the other person and they are just trying to be polite. Hm, okay, that's specific enough? :)


Perhaps "reasonable" is a better word. An unreasonable person won't listen to what you have to say and because of that the conversation itself can't be reasonable, even when you are. Kinda a paradox now that I reconsider this whole relationship issue.
That's a good point, though it can take time to see if someone's going to stay unreasonable on an issue.


I thought that was your main point and that the finding a new friend was simply an additional point, though obviously I was still wrong.

Walking away definitely sucks, and should only be done if there really is nothing else to do. I usually stay with things to their end, but once in a long while a situation will come up that makes me realize I have better, more productive things to do than this debate. Maybe even that isn't walking away, but just putting it on hold in case the tides change?
Tides changing... o_o I don't know if I can rely on such a thing. I actually heard this advice once though, so I tried it with that INFJ I mentioned now, but it just made things worse. She never thought about the issue let alone try to find a way to resolve it in her head in any way while I was giving her space.


Definitely sounds like you're in a tricky situation regardless. I hope you can reach the best outcome, whatever that might be.
Thanks, though this one I just mentioned now specifically ended already, recently. With the other INFJ we've got back on good terms now. Will still keep in mind some of the ideas from this thread.
 

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Thanks, though this one I just mentioned now specifically ended already, recently. With the other INFJ we've got back on good terms now. Will still keep in mind some of the ideas from this thread
That's good to hear; hopefully I didn't sound too much like I was dumbing stuff down for you in my posts. The only INFJ I know irl is my sister, so that probably makes me oversimplify things on this topic, given I first learned to get along with her as a more simple minded young child!
 
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