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I know (from what I've read and my own experience) we ISTP's tend to have trouble believing in things we can't see and looking into the future. How did you overcome this struggle and accept Christianity as a reality? Or did you even have this struggle?
After several years, I realized this struggle was my mind trying to tell me something important: If you have trouble believing something, there is usually a very good reason for this. If you find yourself wanting to ignore facts or avoid learning new things in some areas because it feels uncomfortable, you're not struggling to be spiritual. You're struggling against your own sense of reality. Some people call this cognitive dissonance.

Long story short, I read up on all the things that made me uncomfortable about my faith, and then I didn't have to struggle anymore: I simply didn't believe. The next struggle, of course, was to come out of the closet as an atheist among the more religious of my friends and family. That was interesting...
 

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I'm Christian and I actually envision God as a scientist, I believe in the big bang and in evolution, simply ways that God used to create things, I actually find it amazing for example, that we are made from recycled star dust, we are literally made from Stars, and if that doesn't sound like an amazing touch God gave to His living creations, I dont know what will :p
Never heard many Christians view science that way before :) How do you reconcile stuff like Genesis with evolution, though?
 

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Never heard many Christians view science that way before :) How do you reconcile stuff like Genesis with evolution, though?
In more secular countries, this actually is pretty common: Very few people where I live are fundamentalists. Most believers here, believe that the knowledge we have through science is generally right, but that there is something more to it all, rather than believing that the holy scripture of their choice trumps science in those cases where there are inconsistencies between the two.

So basically, many religious people here will agree that evolution is the process that has caused the biological diversity we see, but it must have been guided at times, or kickstarted, or at least we as a species must be more special than other life.
 

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Never heard many Christians view science that way before :) How do you reconcile stuff like Genesis with evolution, though?
I don't think that Science and Religion are opposites, I don't see contradictions, in fact I see many relations between the two.

For example: Genesis states that God made plants and gave the order that each one produced a specific fruit, so this hints to evolution and a natural order on things, I believe God created the universe and gave it "rules" it plays by, which would be the laws of physics, chemistry, biology and many more.
So God told the plants to produce fruits according to their species. He created the order of things so that things could follow up as a system.

I believe in Adan and Eve, I believe they were a direct creation of God, and therefore: perfect. Later in Genesis, when Cain leaves his parent's land after murdering Abel, he finds that the earth is already populated, I believe that these people who populated the earth were not of perfect creation but rather the people who had already evolved to a bigger extent. Then it also says that "The children of God mixed with the children of the earth" (I don't remember the exact translation), I interpret that as those who were pure, God's creations, began to mate with those who had evolved. That would also explain why the life expectancy for people was reduced so drastically (Apparently God's creations could live for up to 900 years). The DNA degradation that would come from mating with an "inferior" class would explain that.

Finally, there is a versicle in Genesis which says that the God of Abraham has kept his pact with Abraham's people for 40 generations. Biblical generations were usually 44 years long, so that would mean that by that point, humans had existed for at least 40 thousand years. As opposed to how many Christians think that humans are just like 2000 years old.
 

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See if this helps you:

Start by focusing on God's present reality in your life if you struggle with the future. How well do you know him? How does he see the situation? What does he want out of this? How can I use my abilities for him? (building shelter for homeless people, making a gift for somebody, etc).

Remember the bible is a very practical book (especially the teachings of Jesus and proverbs). Talks about real situations. Solomon had been there and done that, (owned a kingdom, built a temple, slept with hundreds of wives, etc) now his observations for us in Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. It's not just a religious book it's real and powerful. Hope this helps man :)
 

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It's all bullshit.

I was indoctrinated into Christianity, fundamentalist type, st a particularly impressionable age, when I came from a family system that left me ungrounded. This left a lot of fear.

I didn't believe, really. I have an IQ a few SDs over the mean, and I could see how things didn't add up. I could see how the Old Testament was a way for tribal leaders to enjoy absolute power and to get soldiers to commit horrific atrocities without guilt. I could see Paul as a misogynist, Jesus as a hippie guy who spoke in riddles.

I knew that what we now know as official Christian "truth" was created by committees centuries after Jesus was alive. God made flesh apparently couldn't be bothered using his time on earth in a Middle East backwater, giving us the straight scoop.

It's all a human construction.

And yet, I'd been brainwashed to be afraid of an eternity in Hell. Brainwashing can still work on someone who is not stupid.

Be free. You don't trust your beliefs because deep down, you know they're bullshit.

Best wishes for a life free of the mindfuck hell that is religion.
 

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For me it is simple logical reasoning.

If God exists, God is All things.If God is not all things, then God is not God. A belief is a conceptual model of things. A conceptual model is a model of a thing, not the thing itself. If God is All things, then God cannot be merely a conceptual model. A belief in God then, is reducing God to a conceptual model. The belief in God then, will always be flawed.

For God to be God, God's nature would necessarily need to be both infinite (All Space) and enteral (All Time). God's nature then would be incomprehensible to the limited and temporal human mind.

My advice, is to forget about any belief in God and simply live a Good Se experience, being mindful to be the best ISTP we could be, given all of our limitations.
 

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I have sort of a hope and faith mindset, because such a being can't be understood. No churches.
 

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I have sort of a hope and faith mindset, because such a being can't be understood. No churches.
I find it difficult to comprehend how an ISTP can have a sort of faith and hope mindset. That doesn't sound very well thought out nor very logical?
 

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I find it difficult to comprehend how an ISTP can have a sort of faith and hope mindset. That doesn't sound very well thought out nor very logical?
That probably depends on one's definition of faith and hope.

If "faith" is a mindset that allows someone to move forward, then it's quite logical to want to get into that mindset. See also flow states (we're all about them), mindfulness (Se magnified), etc.

If I'm lifting a heavy barbell, I have faith in what I know about my body, that I lifted almost as much last session, and the results when I focus my whole mind and body in on a lift.

If that's what it means, then it's quite logical. Accomplishing anything difficult requires us to take control of our minds.

If "faith" means a belief in something that doesn't exist, yeah, that's not logical.

That said, for some people, that belief can help with mindset. And mindset helps with achieving a goal.

Being faithful can mean being true to oneself.

Hope can be similar. We have all experienced an unnecessary failure due to a mind state of defeat. "Hope" can mean keeping a "can-do" attitude instead of a self- defeating one.

Of course, this doesn't negate reality. One can't suddenly run a 5-minute mile, up from 10, without training. However, the difference between a 5:05 and a 4:59 might be attitude and mindset.

Everything around us is screwing wth our minds. But we can choose to screw right back, deliberately, for our own benefit.
 

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That's the whole point. Beliefs can't be "well thought out" because they're not logical. Faith and hope as part of a mindset can have utility in moving towards positive futures. Faith and hope are a choice, not a belief. They are more like action in spite of disbelief.
 

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Maybe I should have elaborated.

I find it difficult to comprehend how an ISTP can have a sort of faith and hope mindset. That doesn't sound very well thought out nor very logical?
I would never have a "sort of" faith and hope mindset, I will nearly always have a well thought out explanation as to why and how I came to a conclusion and I nearly always have a thoroughly examined reason why I take a position.

What I found difficult to comprehend is how an ISTP can be an ISTP and not have thought through these things? Don't misunderstand, I'm not criticizing here, merely trying to understand.

Btw, faith literally means belief without evidence. So I'm not ever likely to have faith in belief, and especially not without evidence. I'm ok with hope, but not as a strategy.
 

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I guess theists thinks the same way as I do. The difference is they think "God" exists and I dismiss the whole idea completely.

I grew up in a secular society. Went to secular schools. Grew up in a secular family. Lived in a very quiet little town, 6 churches or "sects" on 4500 people. Had a friend who managed to convince his parents to leave jehovas, what a feat that is!
 

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Maybe I should have elaborated.



I would never have a "sort of" faith and hope mindset, I will nearly always have a well thought out explanation as to why and how I came to a conclusion and I nearly always have a thoroughly examined reason why I take a position.
Well good for you, but if re-read my original post, you'll see that I didn't actually draw a conclusion.


What I found difficult to comprehend is how an ISTP can be an ISTP and not have thought through these things? Don't misunderstand, I'm not criticizing here, merely trying to understand.
Again, one can't honestly say that they have thought through something nobody understands (God). I'm perfectly satisfied setting the matter aside in the category of 'unkown'. If one is unwilling to identify and tolerate unknowns, then they're not thinking. ISTP-ness aside...


Btw, faith literally means belief without evidence. So I'm not ever likely to have faith in belief, and especially not without evidence. I'm ok with hope, but not as a strategy.
Agree, hope shouldn't be a strategy. Faith however is a much broader concept than what's stated in the dictionary definition.


"What does ‘operational’ ‘faith in’ God amount to? What is it to believe in, or have faith in, God beyond, or even independently of, believing that God exists? To have faith in God is to make a practical commitment—the kind involved in trusting God, or, trusting in God. (The root meaning of the Greek pistis, ‘faith’, is ‘trust’.) This, then, is a fiducial model —a model of faith as trust, understood not simply as an affective state of confidence, but as an action."

And, the notion of faith as trust can be applied to other areas besides religious/spiritual beliefs.
 
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