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Discussion Starter #1
So lately I’ve been feeling like ISTP descriptions just don’t really cut it, especially for the ladies or the more mature crowd. So I’ve taken it upon myself to write up a description that will hopefully help those of you who are saying “but I can’t be an ISTP because I like people!” I had all this below typed up and then I needed a break, but I will be coming back to this thread and updating and finalizing. So for right now, it's in an unfinished Very Rough Draft state. But I do want your input on it, especially on details that you just don't find in the ISTP stereotypical descriptions.


Basic ISTP

How I use Ti

I spend a lot of time stuck in my head. Under stress, it is difficult to leave my thoughtscape. I forget there is something else out there. Future thinking is difficult for me because of how wrapped up I can be in my own mind. When faced with a decision, I will usually start with the logical framework for the problem. “what are the facts?” Then I will begin systematically considering possible solutions. I use Ni a lot in this process to predict potential outcomes and shortcomings to my solutions.

My solutions are grounded in an earthly “here and now” practicality. When I look for an answer I ask myself “What will provide the most complete fix to the problem?” “What will have the fewest possible negative impact?” “What will expend the least energy?” “What uses the fewest resources?”

When people come to me with problems, concerns, or circumstances, I listen for factual cues. I want to hear the sound bites of their problems, and I mentally skim through their conversation listening for the bullet points. I use these bullet points to create a framework for what they are trying to communicate to me and this is what makes up my understanding. The downside can be if I miss an important point or fact that changes the meaning of what they say. I can be very stuck on the framework I built and often resist other possibilities of what they meant.

Sometimes I will expect people to “convince me” of whatever their point is. It can be difficult not to take a “false until proven correct” stance. I often listen to new ideas and first look for potential flaws. If I find a flaw, I can be dismissive of their whole idea. The framework as a whole is important to me. I cannot ignore a tiny flawed detail, nor accept the whole picture if one small part is flawed. This can cause moments of nihilism.

When I communicate, I try to relay my points in a straight line of reasoning. “Here is piece of data #1, #2, #3, so forth, and here is the conclusion.” Sometimes the conclusion will be so clear in my head, that I will simply communicate the data and forget to provide my conclusion, but instead, expect the listener to have the same conclusion.

My core is one of practically. I ask these questions: “Does it work?” “Can it be fixed?” “Can it be affected or changed if I expend energy on it?” “Are the results worth the energy expended?”

How I use Se

I am very in tune with my physical environment. This does not mean that I like playing sports, am an adrenaline junkie, or a hedonist. Instead, I take in immediate reality. This includes physical sensation, but it also puts me in a present-oriented state in which my focus is to impact or analyze what is currently happening now.

How I use Ni

Ni is a subconscious function for me. Often it will combine with inferior Fe to produce
a negative outlook. For me, I am most conscious of it’s usage in social constructs. Walking into a room, I might pick up on tension or emotions in the room. Because Fe is inferior, Ni + Fe can also create feelings of being an outcast, or cause a fear that I “don’t fit in.”

Ni in positive usage is combined with Ti to predict potential outcomes. When an ISTP is unhealthy, Ti and Ni can combine to predict constant negative outcomes. This is often described as the Ti-Ni loop. I don’t know how much I buy into that other than to agree that if you have a negative mindset, you will have negative thoughts. Nihilism can be a problem because Ni can see horrible possibilities. Because Ti can’t find a path that is perfect and free of all bad turnout, the ISTP will simply stop moving forward.

In my view, the eternal dichotomy of Ni is one of Insight vs Paranoia. It can be very difficult to determine which one you are experiencing.

In social situations, the ISTP may have trouble determining if they are liked. Fe is weak and produces fear of experiencing negative emotions that cannot be trusted, controlled or predicted by Ti. Ni begins to see potential connections between facials expressions, words or phrases, or another person’s demeanor that communicate a potential rejection or social failure. Sometimes these moments are insight, but just as often, they are paranoia. Because Ni is weak and all final control is given to Ti, the ISTP can again start to feel stuck. Both social failure and social paranoia are possible. Ni cannot produce a concrete reality, only possibles, so Ti can’t draw a conclusion. The ISTP again becomes frozen and withdraws.


Haven't written the section on Fe yet. Please feel free to contibute bullet points that I should include and expand on.
 

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An ISTP in the grip of Fe can become very insecure. Out-of-character clinginess and irrationality can ensue.

The Ni + Fe tandem about "not fitting in" and being a social outcast can be expanded on, in the Fe section. I am actually envious of Fe-doms sometimes. They connect so easily. Sometimes it seems fake to me, but it could just be my inferiority in the function talking.

Another thing about being Fe-inferior: I feel like such a social retard, like I missed that day in Kindergarten where they passed out the handbook about life.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Reading this back, i should probably take back the bit about "presenting my ideas in a straightfoward sequence". this sounds like i was on crack.

in my defense I wrote this in Starbucks where the music was too loud, and a man chose to sit IN THE CHAIR NEXT TO ME. wtf.
 

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in my defense I wrote this in Starbucks where the music was too loud, and a man chose to sit IN THE CHAIR NEXT TO ME. wtf.
At the same table??
 

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I just wrote this bit in a Cognitive Forum thread about Se. Thought I'd share it here:

I would add that Se is not merely concerned with the 5 senses. Se is very much concerned with reality, with what is. Se-users are very pragmatic types. For example, when people are speaking about hypothetical or what-if situations, as in "what if I had done this, instead of this...?", my response to that is typically "woulda, coulda, shoulda." Basically, what's past is past, there's no use in worrying about what you should have done, but let's concern ourselves what we're going to do now. I see this as a very Se-mentality, very "in the present moment" as you said.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
At the same table??
There are 2 armchairs pushed right up against each other so that people can talk. He sat in the one next to me. The entire dining area was empty. And he chose elbow to elbow with me. Oh and he was going through aerial photos of power grids. I just love living in a town with a DoD presence. =/ (that's dept of defense....not duck of death)
 
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I just love living in a town with a DoD presence. =/ (that's dept of defense....not duck of death)
LOL. Thanks for the clarification. I was actually thinking, "What does Duck of Death have to do with aerial photos of power grids?"

Jerk! That would annoy me to no end.
 
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Another thought I had:

ISTP in the grip, either from inferior-Fe, or over-relied-upon Ti, we think we're being logical and rational, when in fact we're not. Our reasoning becomes very skewed.
 

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Khys-thanks for the thread! Being one of the "mature" ISTPs in the crowd (seasoned seems a more accurate description as I can't claim mature most of the time) I have felt the same way about the descriptions but couldnt put my finger on what was missing. Your additions? So far, so good. I started to reply by quoting what I could really relate to and ended up re-quoting the majority of your post then scrapped it.

One thing I have learned over the years is to capitalize on your quote "Ni in positive usage is combined with Ti to predict potential outcomes."
Somehow I learned, most likely out of sheer self-preservation in relationships and in my professional life, to predict outcomes pretty darn well-but never knew how I am able to do this. I thougt about your description and now it makes sense...would love to hear you expound on it if youre so inclined.

I think ISTPs are woefully underestimated - especially in the more traditional roles in the professional world. We are very valuable as young energetic, take the world by its balls folk, but once "seasoned" by life, watch the eff out!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks @fratz! I will be adding more to this description. And hopefully @madhatter will also contribute to the Ni-usage section. =D =D =D
 
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thanks for the thread :) it really helps me see things (somewhat, everyone is different) from my istp's POV. its the strangest "connection" ive ever had with someone, i'll drive her home and we wont say a word but hold (and squeeze) hands the whole way. i dont get her... but somehow... its enough just to be next to her when we go out, i want to have the "what are we?" talk but i dont want to scare her away lol. thanks again for the insights. i look forward to the updates.
 
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