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Discussion Starter #1
Hi there ISTP people!
I would really appreciate it if you could type this person for me.
I think that he is either ISTP or ESTJ, but since this is only my opinion with no real facts to back it up, please count it as worthless and just go off of my explanation of him.
Ok.
He loves growing plants and vegetables, things with a purpose. He likes extreme sports like skateboarding, surfing, pretty much anything with a board, dirt bike riding, motorcycles, sports-he loves all of that.
He is also pretty handy, though he can't fix a car to save his life-he can do other things like create an in door room for growing special plants and things like that.
We went backpacking a few weeks ago and he seemed to just be completely in his element. He had complete control of his body, where he was going. What amazed me is that though he barely does any physical activity (he is getting back into to it) he not only had the most endurance but was way further ahead of us...very agile, very fit, it was very impressive.
He also described how he can feel each ligament, muscle, blood flow, veins receiving blood flow, and so on throughout his body...like..he could actually FEEL it (explained it very vividly).
We had backpacks, we had to cross a river, and he was able to strategically get all of our stuff across the water (created a pully between to rocks) without our stuff getting wet.
He was completely one with the environment.
As far as conversation goes-he likes to talk about his projects that he is starting. He says he comes up with ideas constantly and makes use of the good ones. He talks about people a lot (what he can't say to their face...which is pretty much everything about them..especially the stuff that pisses him off.. because he has bad communication skills-his words not mine).
He cares a lot about his family and friends. He used to have a lot of friends, but he got screwed over a lot, so now he has boiled it down to just a few good friends, who still take advantage of him. He lends them money or w/e and they don't ever pay him back but he can't say/tell them to pay him back because he just can't seem to do it to friends...but he bitches about it behind their backs constantly.
With his family-he will do anything for them. His mom lost her job and he immediately started growing vegetables in her backyard as a way for her to make money. He pretty much told her this is what you're doing, I know what you should be doing-this is how you're making a living from now on...I knew she didn't want to do it/just wanted to appease him, but he kind of forced it on her.
At his mom's house, he is the man of the house. He does what he wants, when he wants with little concern of whether or not he has permission. He is a "take charge" kind of guy. He wanted to start breeding fish, so he started breeding fish. He wanted to turn the jacuzzi into a fish tank, so he did. He wanted to grow vegetables in the front and back yard, so he did. He wanted to cut down 3 huge trees in the backyard to make sunshine for the veggies, so he did.
On a larger scale-he is very much anti-government. He doesn't like the government, taxes, working at a "normal" job where he is told what to do and when to do it, and he believes in government conspiracies.
He likes to be in charge. He likes to "debate" not "argue" and hates when people get sensitive when he says something straightforward and matter of factly.
His outward body language: to strangers he is very chilled out attitude/disposition, but the more you get to know him he has a very nerdy side with a nerdy laugh, nerdy mannerisms (not all of the time)...but when it comes to the outdoors, working, activities, ect he is very smooth and able.
In relationships, he doesn't like standards, no titles, and he always says "don't tell me what to do"
He reads body language and undertow moods pretty well and he can completely dominate a conversation when he is talking about his ideas/plans/dreams...like you can't get a word in edge wise. but this doesn't happen very often.
 

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I can identify with some of his traits, but far from all of them. A lot of what you describe is not type related at all.
Can you expand on the problematic traits he has? And how does he interact with others?
Basically: Read up on the Te and Si functions and compare them to the Ti-Se combination. PersonalityPage is a good place to start. Check out the Personal Growth pages and see the Potential Problem Areas sections in the respective pages - in my opinion, that's the easiest way to identify a person's type, and you'll see that an ISTP and an ESTJ look completely different from each other both in behavior and when it comes to their motivations: You can't really mistake one for the other once you understand them.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I can identify with some of his traits, but far from all of them. A lot of what you describe is not type related at all.
Can you expand on the problematic traits he has? And how does he interact with others?
. Check out the Personality Trait pages and see the Potential Problem Areas sections in the respective pages - in my opinion, that's the easiest way to identify a person's type, and you'll see that an ISTP and an ESTJ look completely different from each other both in behavior and when it comes to their motivations: You can't really mistake one for the other once you understand them.
Problematic traits include:
ESTP Side
-May deliberately bully people into behaving a certain way (with the justification that they're enforcing a principle.) –Not for enforcing a principle, but say for example, somebody is acting incorrectly-for example: he and some friends were at another friend’s house. The other friend (we’ll call him Larry) started tasering his girlfriend while she was cleaning the dishes. He and his guy friends cornered him and started talking shit because what he was doing was not right.
-May quickly dismiss input from others without really considering it. –New ideas and ways of thinking kind of scare him. I will bring up things about nutrition and cancer or how psychological disorders are caused of life experience and not biology and he immediately gets defensive and doesn’t like hearing it.
However, the next time I see him, he seems to have accepted my viewpoint, almost like he let the idea sit in the back of his brain as he chewed on it for a little bit and though he is not gung-hoe on the idea…he gradually accepts it into his life.
-May have difficulty communicating their thoughts and feelings to others. –He admittedly says that he has horrible communication skills. He can say everything he needs to say to someone behind that person’s back, but when it comes to actually communicating how he thinks/feels it can’t be done. This is usually the case when it comes to correcting someone’s behavior that is negatively impacting his life. For example: His mom needed to take care of the plants because it was her job and because she wasn’t watering the plants, he had to spend tons of money driving to and from her house to get the job done. Also, the plants were dying and he was losing money. He could communicate how he felt/what needed to be done to me about her, but when it came to confronting her-he couldn’t do it.
As a side note: I think the reason why it is so hard for him to communicate to other people is because he doesn’t want to hurt people’s feelings. This both irritates him, but at the same time, he won’t “be mean” because he doesn’t want to hurt someone’s feelings.
-Maybe have difficulty understanding the importance of considering people's feelings, and trying to meet their emotional needs. –kind of
-May have an intense and quick temper.- Very much so though sometimes more than others. When he is stressed any little thing can set him off. In more serious situations, he gets angry when someone is standing around doing nothing or putting themselves in harm’s way. (This happened when we were backpacking and crossing the river. He was doing everything, we didn’t know what to do, he didn’t know how to communicate what we needed to do, and I fell in the river).
May be highly controlling towards others.-Not highly controlling, but controlling. He runs his mom’s house like it’s his. Tells her how she is going to make a living (she is simply collecting unemployment and not looking for work and he just can’t understand why she can’t take care of plants and at least try to make extra money on the side), turns her fish tank into a breeding place for tilapia fish. Granted, she says yes to everything and appeases him. But, this is at his mom’s. In other areas, he is not this way at all. At his house, he lets things go constantly. His roommate is dirty, so he deals; his roommates dog is crazy and tears everything up, so he deals; ect.
ISTP side

  • The ISTP gets "stuck in a rut" and only does those things that are known and comfortable to the ISTP. -maybe
  • The ISTP resists and rejects anything that doesn't support their own experiential understanding of the world.-as was stated above in the second bullet point.
  • They choose to surround themselves with people who support their own way of life, and reject people who think or live differently.
  • They may become overly paranoid about social organizations and institutions trying to control them. –this is definitely true for him. He hates school, college, the government, cops-any established organization (other than counter-culture kinds like marijuana growers and gangs-in a kind of sort of way. For example, he told me that when our economy collapsed really badly before gangs took over and created a black market so that people could continue to buy and sell goods. He made them out to be the good guys). He hates being told what to do and tries to say as close to the outskirts of society as humanly possible.
  • They may be completely unaware of how to express their inner world to others in a meaningful way. –This is tough one because, how would I know if he was doing this? What I can say, is that there are certain times that he opens up and reveals parts of himself (like his crazy ability to feel his entire insides of his body…like, actually feel how his veins, ligaments, muscles, organs are working in his body OR his crazy thoughts about the universe/aliens). I can say that when I laughed at him and got irritated about him talking about aliens and religion-he got really defensive and angry at me for judging/trying to debate the existence of his ideas
  • They may be completely unaware of the type of communication that is often desireable and (to some degree) expected in an intimate relationship. If they are aware of the kinds of things that are appropriate to say and do to foster emotional bonding, they may be unable to appreciate the value of such actions. –YES. Very much so
  • Under stress, they may show intense emotions that seem disproportionate to the situation. –Yes. When under stress he over-exaggerates EVERYTHING. Like, when he is tired, stressed-he is extremely moody and irritated and takes that out on the people he is closest to like his mom or I. When he feels like poop he treats those closest to him like poop.
Other things to consider:
He is not analytical, at all. Abstract concepts piss him. He hates socionics, mbti, and say for example I am looking over a wilderness landscape and seeing it from what it was, now is, and how it will be on a very abstract level-it pisses him off and he immediately rejects/cuts off my thought. He hates personality tests and thinks they are stupid and a waste of time. He says that they are telling me/everyone how to think and that I/everyone need to think for my/ourselves. Every question he came across, he said that it depended on the situation…he came out with ESTJ, but because he didn’t even know how to answer the questions/hated on it the whole time I don’t know how accurate the MBTI test came out.
Also, his personality changes with his environment. When he was backpacking he fit the ISTP description almost to a T, but when he is at his mom’s house he seems to be more like the ESTJ in many ways. His life is very stressful, he has lots of bills and no free time. Idk if stress plays a factor in this change.
Their resistance to structure may cause them to quit school early, quit jobs that they find stifling, or quit relationships that have too many expectations. ISTPs are often likeable and have more friends and social interaction than is normal for an Introvert-he had SO many friend is hs, but like I said a lot of those friends screwed him over or were only his friend when he was down to party and spend money on them. The ISTP genuinely enjoys the company of their friends (and family), and needs their input in his or her physical world to maintain their understanding of their own place in the world.-He always says that he needs to work with at least one other person because that other person sees things that you miss when you are by yourself.
ESTJ similarities in definition and strength:
Also, he says he creates “rules” that need to be followed in his line of business, but he breaks them constantly and says that his rules turn more into guidelines .
They often lead, but can follow easily if they trust the authority of the system they're following.-He may like an organization or group of people, but even if he likes them and is associated with them, he still, in his own life is his own boss. He and his partner work together as a separate unit from whatever “group” he is a part of or is semi-affiliated with. The ESTJ can be quite harsh about the violation of a principle. It is more important to the ESTJ that the principle is honored than that they consider the position or feelings of the individual who transgressed against the principle.-Nope, he breaks his rules/principles/guidelines constantly-when it comes to friends, family, relationships..even acquaintances, he is not that harsh. He says in the long run it does him no good to hurt/damage a relationship because of that; but, he did say that he use to be like that.

  • They believe strongly in doing their duty, and perform out of a sense of duty, rather than an expectation of getting something in return.-mmmm when it comes to family, -he is there for them, no matter what and doesn’t expect anything in return, at least that is how it appears.
  • They're natural leaders.
  • They are usually good strategists and "game" players.
  • They are Loyal -- to their family, friends-very loyal.
 

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I didn't read that whole thing, and I have to run, but my gut reaction was istp.
You said he seems more estj at home? Where he is more comfortable?

Is it aquaponics he's into? I love aquaponics! :)
Tell him I said fairplay to him.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
I didn't read that whole thing, and I have to run, but my gut reaction was istp.
You said he seems more estj at home? Where he is more comfortable?

Is it aquaponics he's into? I love aquaponics! :)
Tell him I said fairplay to him.
He is more like estj at his mom's house, not his house. Growing up, his dad was never a dad (alcoholic, didn't provide, spend time, take care of his family....his parents' marriage ended in divorce).
He has this feeling of intense responsibility to take care of his mom, dad, family no matter what. His family because they took care of him when his parents were going through the divorce/weren't taking care of him; his mom just because it's his mom; and his dad because well, he just can't do it to him even if it pisses him off that his dad spends all his money on alcohol and cigarettes
 

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His family interaction screams SJ. Any type can enjoy physical things, but their interactions with people almost always varies.

I know, as an ISTP, if my Dad was an alcoholic and useless... I wouldn't help him. I don't help people who aren't willing to help themselves if able. It's futile. The fact that he still helps, tells me he's bound by duty or tradition. Honor thy father and thy mother and all that jazz.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
But it's weird though because when it comes to me and my family (my mom is crazy and parents are getting a divorce) he says that if he were me he would not have her in any part of his life.
Same with his sister. She got heavily involved in drugs and did a lot of things to hurt the family and him and his mom and he wants nothing to do with her...he "exinated her out of the family" (spell check)
 
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