[SuburbanLurker]

Hi, I'm new here. First I want to apologize for starting off with something so personal, but hopefully a productive impersonal discussion will result.

So the issue is that even though I'm pretty sure I'm an INTP going by description, and even though I consistently score with strong intuition, I'm still unsure and insecure about whether or not I'm really INTP. Despite the fact that I try my utmost to be honest with myself, I can't help but wonder if I'm subconsciously choosing the options that I want to be like, rather than what I really am.

It's easy for me to determine that I'm IxTP, as the other three functions are much more concrete in description. You either are punctual or you aren't; you either are outgoing or you aren't etc. and I happen to be extreme in all of them. But by nature of the N/S descriptions being more abstract than the others, they're left open to a much more subjective, and therefore potentially erroneous, interpretation; I'm both a realist and an idealist. Which option do I choose? I don't know which one I'm more of, so I simply choose the one I prefer. This is where I have most trouble defining myself objectively and conclusively without putting my own conscious and subconscious desires into the mix.

I believe this "identity crisis" stems from two things. First of all, I think I was an ISTP as a child, and only at some point during my teenage years did I morph (I think) into INTP. (However, perhaps I only think this because my dad forced me into sports throughout childhood which developed my athletic abilities, then when I became old enough to make my own decisions...you see where I'm going with this). Second, I'm admittedly insecure about my level of intelligence (me? average? It can't be!), and the notion is that NTs are generally more intellectual. I realize the fallacy here; my level of intelligence is what it is regardless of my type. Yet I can't stop obsessing, and I probably won't until I find a conclusive answer.

I'm not going to list out a bunch of personality traits of mine because to be honest, I can and have analyzed my own personality more than enough. What I'm really just looking for is a way to objectively determine my level of S/N. This is one area where theorizing works against me, since I can never be sure of the absolute truth due to my subjectivity, and it's driving me nuts.

So, again, sorry about the personal rant, but I'd love to hear some feedback. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ever struggled with this.

 

[Promethea]

Do you identify more with:

Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail. We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result. We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context. An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention. Extraverted Sensing is operating when we freely follow exciting physical impulses or instincts as they come up and enjoy the thrill of action in the present moment. A oneness with the physical world and a total absorption may exist as we move, touch, and sense what is around us. The process involves instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation and still get the impact we want or respond to the situation with presence.

-or-

Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.

 

[Trainwreck]

One of my favorite people ever is ISTP, and one of the key differences I see between us is that he seems COMPLETELY devoid of emotion, even when I get him smiling it looks like he's not sure what the hell is going on.

But to answer things easily:

The self employment tax is outrageously high (lets not debate, lets just assume it is), and you own your own landscaping business. Are you angry because A.) With that money you could afford more equipment to expand your business or because B.) It's an injustice to hinder entrepreneurship and it hurts our economy society-wide. ??

Based on my relationship with my ISTP friend if you answered 'A' I would say ISTP and if you answered 'B' I would say INTP.

I love ISTPs, well, from the one I know. He's extremely quiet unless you hit the right topic and then his sense of humor comes out and we wind up building these wildly absurd, real, yet insanely imaginative scenarios and inventions. And then if we don't feel like talking we both just sit there and we're both totally cool with it. We once spent an hour driving and literally neither of us said a single word. I was sussing out new theories about the one-ness of nature and he was taking in the beauty of it.

The main thing I've noticed about him is that he will survive the rapture. Like you could turn him loose in the woods and he'd turn into Jermiah Johnson and live out an extremely happy life just like that on his own. He's also insanely loyal. When I got laid off my last job within about an hour of sharing the news with everyone he sent me a text asking if I wanted to work with his landscaping business even though he doesn't need any help with the business. I'm man crushing a bit, sorry. For some reason I form extremely close bonds, life-long bonds with other males. I think that's because my exes (not sure if right word) and female friends all tend to disappear from my life once they find a boyfriend.

From what I know of the type I'd say they're the least emotional, most independent, hard working, and they don't like authority very much. Just friggin' awesome in my opinion.

 

[SuburbanLurker]

Promethea: I identify more with the latter, but I do identify with the former to an extent. However, if I wasn't aware of which of these descriptions pertained to Ne, I wonder if I would be so confident in my answer. It's that sort of second guessing that's driving me mad.

Trainwreck: I would answer B to the question but only because I'm about the complete opposite of materialistic and don't put much importance in money, as long as the business is profitable and keeps me out of poverty. I don't particularly care about the state of society either though (because I have little faith in being able to change it due to our collective incompetence, not because I don't care). Then again, who's to say the tax will hurt society in the first place? Assuming the government is efficient and honest, maybe the extra tax money will somehow make up for the lost revenue of small businesses. Poorer entrepreneurs, but more of...what?

I can identify with your ISTP friend to an extent, but I think most INTPs could. Our types share a lot of similar traits after all.

 

[Promethea]

Hang around and read the ISTP and INTP forums a while and you'll get a general feel of the difference.

 

[Trainwreck]

Trainwreck: I would answer B to the question but only because I'm about the complete opposite of materialistic and don't put much importance in money, as long as the business is profitable and keeps me out of poverty. I don't particularly care about the state of society either though (because I have little faith in being able to change it due to our collective incompetence, not because I don't care). Then again, who's to say the tax will hurt society in the first place? Assuming the government is efficient and honest, maybe the extra tax money will somehow make up for the lost revenue of small businesses. Poorer entrepreneurs, but more of...what?

I can identify with your ISTP friend to an extent, but I think most INTPs could. Our types share a lot of similar traits after all.

Hmm, I should've been more clear on answer 'A'. It's not really out of material gain but out of the feeling of a personal injustice occurring to you, least that's the way my ISTP friend feels. Where as I don't like it because I think governments are not efficient and a lot of Dead Weight Loss (Econ techno-babble) happens, but I'll steer clear of that as we're trying to get a feel for you.

If I were to choose at this moment, I'd say I think you're ISTP; however, don't put too much into what I think because this has been a small interaction and you know yourself best; also, as Promethea pointed out, in time checking out the forums you'll know who you are. Before I came to this board I started testing a weak 'J' (like 5 %) on some tests, and it took me about 4 seconds of reading on the INTJ forum to know that I was INTP.

Edit: upon reading again.. you might be INTP... ummmmmmmmmm lol, yeah. Time will tell.

 

[SuburbanLurker]

Well, even though I said I wasn't going to do this, I might as well get some objective feedback.

The biggest distinctions between me and the stereotypical ISTP are that, first of all, I'm not at all hands-on. I'm pretty terrible at that that sort of stuff. Nor am I an adventurous "look before you leap" type of person. I'm fine with sitting on my ass all day reading internet forums, talking about things that are totally immaterial to my own life. I enjoy talking about pointless theoretical things and making up scenarios, considering all the possibilities. I used to design maps for first person shooters, but despite my awesome concepts, I rarely actually ended up with a finished product (I did once though, and it was pretty awesome). The visuals in the maps were always abstract (focus on atmosphere and mostly sci-fi based) rather than conventional, but I also payed much attention to the functionality of the layout in regards to the gameplay.

Most of the stereotypical jobs for an ISTP don't interest me as I'm not very action oriented nor mechanically inclined.

On the other hand, I'm very athletic by nature (I just don't take advantage of it), and I consider myself to have a common sense no bs attitude. I'm very independent minded and abhor being controlled and dictated to, although I'm 23 and still live at home I'm usually very aware of my surroundings and senses...I think...and I'm pretty musically inclined, guitar being my weapon of choice (I think music is more of an Se thing isn't it? But I tend to be a dabbler and my sweet concept-album ideas never come to fruition). I think in abstractions often, but I just as often have a hard time wrapping my head around abstract ideas.

Also I was a pretty big slacker in school, huge underachiever, but I guess that's just my P-ness (lol).

 

[Ashitaria]

I relate entirely.

I have been told that I am musically inclined and that I have a very huge sense of aesthetics by art teachers and music teachers, which makes me lean towards ISTP, but I love to talk about meaningless philosophical topics which makes me lean towards INTP.

As of now, I'm still extremely undecided. INTP or ISTP?

And btw, I think all types have the same amount of intelligence, just geared towards different things. :tongue:

 

[Eisenheim]

I'm pretty musically inclined, guitar being my weapon of choice (I think music is more of an Se thing isn't it? But I tend to be a dabbler and my sweet concept-album ideas never come to fruition).

Just want to disarm the hypothesis that INTPs dont like music.
Allow me to quote from www.intp.com/intprofile.html
"INTPs are usually fascinated by music and may have deep and wide-ranging tastes. Indeed, each of their three main functions (Ti, Ne, Si) plays a role in the enjoyment of music, and indeed music is a key interest for bringing out the feeling shadow of the INTP. Si itself brings a fascination for mood and atmosphere in music as well as for a strong sense of personal nostalgia. INTPs are therefore often keen on melancolic minor-key music in which an introspective and/or esoteric mood is conveyed."

Regarding your slacking and fascination with game map making, I must say that those are classic INTP things,
I too made game maps, albeit not for an FPS game, but for Civilization III and Heroes II, I do still think that, that is a common fascination for INTPs. Also you mention a Sci-fi theme, and Science Fiction is also often mentioned as a fascination for INTPs.

 

[SuburbanLurker]

Just want to disarm the hypothesis that INTPs dont like music.
Allow me to quote from *snip*
"INTPs are usually fascinated by music and may have deep and wide-ranging tastes. Indeed, each of their three main functions (Ti, Ne, Si) plays a role in the enjoyment of music, and indeed music is a key interest for bringing out the feeling shadow of the INTP. Si itself brings a fascination for mood and atmosphere in music as well as for a strong sense of personal nostalgia. INTPs are therefore often keen on melancolic minor-key music in which an introspective and/or esoteric mood is conveyed."

I was always under the impression that Se was better at actually playing instruments, though obviously it's silly to suggest that NTs can't be just as proficient. I do relate to that description completely. I find mood and atmosphere to be the most important aspect in all types of art; music, paintings, pictures, writing etc. and I try to make it the focal point when I exercise my creativity.

Regarding your slacking and fascination with game map making, I must say that those are classic INTP things,
I too made game maps, albeit not for an FPS game, but for Civilization III and Heroes II, I do still think that, that is a common fascination for INTPs. Also you mention a Sci-fi theme, and Science Fiction is also often mentioned as a fascination for INTPs.

I also dabbled with map making for RTS games like Command and Conquer and Starcraft. My problem was always that I loved coming up with the ideas but I hated building the physical map (I know this is another INTP characteristic). I usually couldn't create what I had in mind. I'd build the map in its basic concept-form but not be able to dress it up nicely, or at best end up with something entirely different than what I visualized. I guess I'm pretty bad at any sort of visual arts now that I think of it (drawing, painting, decorating etc.).

 

[vel]

The very sort version is that Se and Ne are both perceiving functions but Se pays attention to concrete objects in your outside environment while how those objects are related with each other seems less important. Ne emphasizes connections between those objects, but deems objects themselves as less important. Thus the Se person will pay more attention to his or her concrete physical environment while the Ne person will pay attention to the possible cause-effect relationships in this environment. There is a diagram in this article that illustrates it: Fundamental Nature of the MBTI

The reason INTPs might confuse themselves for ISTPs is because your intuitive and sensory functions are close together:
INTP functional order: Ti Ne Si Fe
ISTP: Ti Se Ni Fe
This doesn't mean you can oscillate between types or change from one type to another as if you notice the functional orientation is different and this is not easily changeable. INTP's sensory function is introverted sensing Si while for ISTP sensing is extraverted Se. For ISTP intuition is introverted Ni, while it is extraverted Ne for the INTP. So if you can determine whether you use SeNi or NeSi are you perceiving functions then you will know for certain which type you are.

As NiSe person will pay more attention to connections between things that he or she observed in past, while simultaneously craving for new experiences. A NeSi person will pay more attention to new possibilities, new possible connections that can be created in future, but will at times fall back to what they remember has worked for them in past. One very simple manifestation of Se vs Si I see when going to eat out with people. I always experience an urge to order something new to try it out, while Si people will often prefer to order a dish that they remember was good last time they went to this place.

 

[Jerick]

One very simple manifestation of Se vs Si I see when going to eat out with people. I always experience an urge to order something new to try it out, while Si people will often prefer to order a dish that they remember was good last time they went to this place.

I think that is definitely true of the SJs that I've known. I always think it's boring to eat the same dish more then once, unless I've already tried the entire menu and have decided which are the best choices.

 

[SuburbanLurker]

Well, I'm not very experimental when it comes to food in general. I prefer a meal that I know will be good to something I might have to force down.

In my ongoing quest to know and define myself, I just took an interesting test that, while the descriptions are even more abstract and open-ended, they're far less subject to my own bias due to their being based on all eight processes combined with my limited knowledge of the cognitive functions (ie. subconscious preference is limited). It seems my results show a clear INTP hierarchy, except for some reason my Fi is much stronger than my Fe, and I even agree with this. (Can't post links yet due to not having enough posts)

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) **************** (16.2)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) *********************** (23.5)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ******************************************** (44.5)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************************* (33.2)
good use
extraverted Thinking (Te) *************************** (27.5)
average use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************************** (44.5)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) *************** (15.2)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) *********************************** (35.2)
good use
Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTP

Am I broken? I don't really relate to Fe at all after reading the descriptions. :crazy:

I feel like such a narcissist with this thread. I really do apologize!

 

[Thrifty Walrus]

Lets make it simple, your clock or something, breaks down. do you, A. Troubleshoot B. Just go without whatever broke because you don't really feel like fixing it, you know you'll get around to fixing it, and 2 years later, you do!

 

[vel]

Well, I'm not very experimental when it comes to food in general. I prefer a meal that I know will be good to something I might have to force down.

In my ongoing quest to know and define myself, I just took an interesting test that, while the descriptions are even more abstract and open-ended, they're far less subject to my own bias due to their being based on all eight processes combined with my limited knowledge of the cognitive functions (ie. subconscious preference is limited). It seems my results show a clear INTP hierarchy, except for some reason my Fi is much stronger than my Fe, and I even agree with this. (Can't post links yet due to not having enough posts)

Am I broken? I don't really relate to Fe at all after reading the descriptions. :crazy:

I feel like such a narcissist with this thread. I really do apologize!

Food is just one example, but it can be applied to anything else. Si though is INTP's tertiary function so it is not going to show up too often. Fe is inferior for both INTPs and ISTPs, basically weakest least explored function, so no wonder you cannot easily relate to its description. The relationship of individual to this function can really range from anything to complete rejection (rejection of feelings of basis of them being illogical) to ok mastery of it. I believe Fe most often manifests in IxTPs as desire to be polite with others. According to the article below the inferior function isn't embraced until like mid-30s-40s and its development is supposedly responsible for mid-life crisis in people - sort of new awareness coming into place when you are in your 30s. Although it is difficult for me to imagine what kind of mid-life crisis inferior Fe would induce. My inferior Se mid-life crisis is going to be pretty simple - some skydiving, a nice expensive muscle car, may be a few new boyfriends xD
link: personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/1037-how-personality-types-develop.html

I think that is definitely true of the SJs that I've known. I always think it's boring to eat the same dish more then once, unless I've already tried the entire menu and have decided which are the best choices.

I have very little sense of Si so even I even feel the inferior Si of ENxPs sometimes. In the situation you described my Se is going to be like "well you tried all dishes in this restaurant, lets go find a new place! this one is boring now!" but dominant Ni will counter it - both Ni and Si are most comfortable with what has been explored in past.

I suppose INTP's Ne usually pulls him or her forward towards something new. But I am not sure how exactly it happens? What exactly are the thoughts/feelings that pull you to try something new? I kind of have a sense of how my Se tricks me into trying new things but can't really describe in words how Ne would accomplish same. Is it like a yearning to learn something new?

 

[Jerick]

I suppose INTP's Ne usually pulls him or her forward towards something new. But I am not sure how exactly it happens? What exactly are the thoughts/feelings that pull you to try something new? I kind of have a sense of how my Se tricks me into trying new things but can't really describe in words how Ne would accomplish same. Is it like a yearning to learn something new?

When I think about it, the boredom is because I'll be thinking there are some other possibilities I haven't tried yet, so I'll be annoyed that what I'm eating might not be the best. Once I've decided it's the best, then I'll enjoy it. I have some specific things that I've decided are "good" and once I've decided something is good, then I'll want to keep it forever, unless it changes.

ENTPs are known for taking a long time to mature (same with INTPs, in a similar way), this is probably because of dominant Ne which will cause them to want to seek out a lot of possibilities. They also don't really have any grounding functions with Si being their least function.

When I think of Ne, it's kind of like watching water come up on the shore of a beach. All of the connections wash over one area, then leave to another area. This is why NPs can contradict themselves, because they'll have forgotten about the area they're not in anymore, until Si is used to connect both areas together.

but dominant Ni will counter it - both Ni and Si are most comfortable with what has been explored in past.

I've been thinking that Si and Ni are maturity functions. NJs and SJs are probably the most mature types, and if you look at the most stereotypically immature types, they have low Ni and Si. They don't "grow up" by building a solid base, and will continue to seek out new stuff.

Te and Fe could also be maturity functions, because maturity basically means basing your decisions on objective information, since maturity is based on what society considers to be mature.

 

[JoniF]

SuburbanLurker, you're totally an INTP. Your confusion stems from your interpretation of how cognitive functions interact with the world.

 

[SuburbanLurker]

SuburbanLurker, you're totally an INTP. Your confusion stems from your interpretation of how cognitive functions interact with the world.

I think you're right. That and insecurity. The more I come to understand the functions the more I'm beginning to realize that there's no way I'm ISTP.

 

[JoniF]

"Each one of us requires the spur of insecurity to force us to do our best."

—Harold W. Dodds

 

[tangential]

Mainly the difference between S and N, is how much attention the person pays to physical aspects of the environment as opposed to more abstract ideas. For example in a restaurant, how much attention is paid to Sensory aspects (taste of food, colors, smells, music, temperature, etiquette) or Intuitive/abstract aspects (conversations ongoing, price, calories/health of food, names of foods).