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Discussion Starter #1
So yeah, I've been told I'm an ISFJ by a pretty knowledgeable source ( @pinkrasputin ) but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Everything I take the test I come out an ISTP... just barely. Reading the ISTP profile feels just about right to me. I have been hanging around the ISTP forums since I started on PerC and I relate to a lot of what goes on there with one exception. They are a bit... abrasive.

I have always thought of myself as an ISTP with a little more empathy. Now that Pink called me out I have read up on some ISFJ profiles and they sound pretty true too... except the idea that I would care about how others behave. I don't want someone telling me what to do so how could I, in good conscience, tell someone else what to do. I believe it is not my place to tell others what to think or do as long as their behavior isn't affecting me in some way. I have a very strong "live and let live" mentality, which I see as more of an ISTP trait.

Any thoughts?
 

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Do you identify more with your enneagram than your mbti type?
Enneagram 2 and ISTP is very unlikely. From my understanding, it's a very Fe profile. 6w7 and 1w9 are also point toward an ISFJ.
Your preference for perceiving is not very strong, so a shift to judging is possible. You tested highly on thinking, but as an ISFJ your Ti would be very close to your Fe. Since thinking is more valorised in men than feeling, it would not be surprising that you identify more with your Ti than your feeling function.
Also, ISFJ don't generally try to control others, that's more something a Fe dominant would do. If you look at interactions style, ISFJ's are behind the scene, which is the opposite of a controlling person.

Now, I'm not telling you that you ARE an ISFJ, I'm just saying that I could see it as a possibility.
If your are sure of your preference for perceiving, you should read about the ISFP.
 

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I think you might be misunderstanding the ISFJ trait that you disagree with. As an ISFJ, I've never seen myself as controlling or dominating. The last thing I want is to tell someone what to do. The ISFJ trait of caring how other people behave doesn't have anything to do with those things, at least in my mind. To me, it's tied up in wanting to live my life inside tried and true experiences/act in a conventional manner. Moving outside of that safety area is unnerving without a hell of a lot of coaxing, and so when we see other people do so without a second thought, it's unsettling as well.

So, I may have strong feelings about how people act, or how my friends do some pretty embarrassing or stupid things sometimes, but I'd never dream of telling them what to do just to satisfy my own frustrations or second-hand embarrassment. Even if I didn't love the hell out of them, it's not my place to do so.

So yeah, personal feelings or hangups aside, we're pretty live and let live.
 

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This may help (and I hope it does...)

ISFJ Functions
Dominant Si
Auxiliary Fe
Tertiary Ti
Inferior Ne

An ISFJ is a traditionalist, they want to be orderly and keep everything the way it was before. They are reluctant for change. ISFJ men specifically (I find) are courteous to many people, they show good manners and know how to interact politely with others.

ISTP Functions
Dominant Ti
Auxiliary Se
Tertiary Ni
Inferior Fe

These are more people who will dress sporty and they won't be as courteous as the ISFJ because Fe (extroverted Feeling) is their inferior function. Inferior functions aren't developed very well in the early years of life. ISTPs aren't very comfortable with feelings because they don't know how to use the function as well, meaning they won't know how to deal with them as well as ISFJs (not to say that ISTPs lack emotions; every "personality" type has emotions of all sorts).

It's better to study the functions than take those online tests that everyone thinks is right. I've taken many of those tests and I got INTJ when I found out that I'm more realistically an INFJ. This is because I studied the functions. Functions were developed by Carl Jung, and the MBTI was based off of his theories about functions.

There is a really good video done by DaveSuperPowers on YouTube regarding ISFJs and ISTPs if you really want to know the difference. I'm no expert, but I think this guy is. Want me to link him to you?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes please.

I'm pretty much always courteous, but "orderly traditionalist" is not really my cup of tea. I find change is good, but it's just hard to start because of lazyness/indecision. When I finally get to a point where I need to make a decision I will do it with vigor and I usually find I shouldn't have waited so long.
 

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Si does not have to do with traditionalism. It's all about how you personally perceive things. Si being the dominant function of an ISFJ, they experience the world through identifying it with their internal conceptions. Van Gogh was an ISFJ.

Say you hold your hands near a fire. It feels warm- warmth is a comforting thing. Ergo, the fire is comforting.

You can even do this with abstract concepts. Mercy. Someone spares a murderer. You see this as mercy-mercy is something that never holds itself to be too good for something. You conclude the person must have a bit of that mercy in them too.

Now Ti, on the other hand, is about using internal logic. I unfortunately cannot elaborate more, since I don't have personal experience with it.
 

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I stand corrected: it's not that ISFJs want orderly tradition, but they are hesitant to ty new things. It's just that they rely on past experiences to do things and that they want to do things the same way whenever it comes to any problem they have to solve.

As for the link, I will try and post it up as soon as I get back on an actual computer. I'm using a KindleFire to type this post. Autocorrect annoys me. :p
 

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@Delok I identify more with being an ISFJ,but I also have some INFJ tendencies as well.I never come out as being the same type when I do tests and quizzes.I have tested as ISFP before which I know I definitely am not.It's possible that you also have traits of more than one type.If you identify more as an ISTP and consistently test as this then perhaps you are one after all.
 

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So yeah, I've been told I'm an ISFJ by a pretty knowledgeable source ( @pinkrasputin ) but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Everything I take the test I come out an ISTP... just barely. Reading the ISTP profile feels just about right to me. I have been hanging around the ISTP forums since I started on PerC and I relate to a lot of what goes on there with one exception. They are a bit... abrasive.

I have always thought of myself as an ISTP with a little more empathy. Now that Pink called me out I have read up on some ISFJ profiles and they sound pretty true too... except the idea that I would care about how others behave. I don't want someone telling me what to do so how could I, in good conscience, tell someone else what to do. I believe it is not my place to tell others what to think or do as long as their behavior isn't affecting me in some way. I have a very strong "live and let live" mentality, which I see as more of an ISTP trait.

Any thoughts?
this in particular sounds like an ISTP i know, but i also dont like being told what to do, i can get pretty defensive when being bossed around. It seems to help if the person who wants me to do something uses the proper language... "id really like you to help me do this, i dont think i can do it alone" as opposed to "go get the ____". I try to live and let live, but sometimes i can be judgemental, rarely do i try and actually change anyone though. More likely i would just disapprove of the behavior. On your sig it says 50% for P... so i could see where that would be a question. I guess the biggest way i would start to choose between them myself, would be to ask you... whom do you consider first, your needs or the needs of those you love?
 

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I watched the video for DaveSuperPowers ISTP vs ISTJ, and he mentions that the ISTP is going to go their own way and be less traditional.. this relates to ISFJ as well because we are more like the ISTJ in that sense... we tend to find it a relief to be more structured and traditional... this is not to say that we cant or dont like things our own way... it just means that you will rarely see an ISFJ choosing to backpack across the country and live off of what they come across.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, I'm about to buy a Harley and one of the first things I want to do is take a trip across the country and visit as many of my old Navy buddies as I can in the time I have.

As for whose needs I consider first, my previous pattern has been to do for others and suppress my desires. Unfortunately that outlook has been a major contributing factor in my recent divorce. I have since been trying to put myself first more often.
 

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Well, I'm about to buy a Harley and one of the first things I want to do is take a trip across the country and visit as many of my old Navy buddies as I can in the time I have.
Well, I am sure ISTJs have done things like that as well. Some of the ISTJs are speed demons when it driving and other physical activities.
 

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You could be thinking that you are an ISTP because you probably have incredibly developed Ti which might have been due to mistrust in other people in your early life or other circumstances you had to put up with. The last thing you want to do is base your type off of stereotypical behavior. Ask yourself questions like "So I am a motorcyclist. WHY am I a motorcyclist? Why do I like it?"

Keep in mind, SJs are not traditionalists for the sake of tradition. It's because they are defined by their own experiences which in an of themselves are traditions. For example, at some point I had a huge fascination for trains as a child, I don't really know why so it's kind of irrational, yet I loved them nonetheless. So reading about trains and riding in them were traditions I looked forward to doing.

I'm like a cactus: once I get a little water, I keep it all in me for a while and absorb it to the best of its use.
 

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Well, I'm about to buy a Harley and one of the first things I want to do is take a trip across the country and visit as many of my old Navy buddies as I can in the time I have.

As for whose needs I consider first, my previous pattern has been to do for others and suppress my desires. Unfortunately that outlook has been a major contributing factor in my recent divorce. I have since been trying to put myself first more often.
Why a Harley? What meaning have you associated with a Harley?

You want to travel the country to see old friends of yours. Reliving past memories, that sound more Si than Se. Se, I think, would be more along the line of " I want to travel across the country and I will see where that will lead me."
You are also only now learning to think of yourself before others. Every single ISFJ I meet struggled with that. ISFJ's, stop me if I'm wrong, but the reasoning seems to be: "Making others happy should make me happy". They feel very responsive of the feeling of their close ones.
 

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You are also only now learning to think of yourself before others. Every single ISFJ I meet struggled with that. ISFJ's, stop me if I'm wrong, but the reasoning seems to be: "Making others happy should make me happy". They feel very responsive of the feeling of their close ones.
Well, as an ISFJ, I don't think I am entirely this way. Maybe it's because I'm a type 1 on the Enneagram, but I try to make others happy/be accomodating because I feel I have an obligation to do so. I've only recently started to question the obligation. But I definitely don't feel like making others happy would make me happy, and I certainly don't have a high amount of Type 2 in my personality.
 

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Well, Mendi the ISFJ has already posted something about DaveSuperPowers... But I'll link them anyways.

INTP vs ISTP
ISTJ vs ISTJ
ISFJ vs ISFP

I hope that helps! And I'd also like to add that as you grow older, your third and fourth function naturally come out more. To find out what you were in the beginning, I think you'd have to go all the way back into your childhood and observe which function you used in your childhood. Whatever function you used mostly in your childhood is your dominant function.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Wow, those videos really helped. Great education about the different functions.
Let’s see.
First off, Temperaments:
There is almost no escaping I'm an SP. I'd MUCH rather be doing. I'm really not a goal oriented person... so probably not a SJ.

Now to delve into the functions:
Fe vs. Fi- I'm thinking Fi. I am NOT very demonstrative with my feelings though I'm trying to be better with that. I can also get VERY uncomfortable when I know someone is about to embarrass themselves. Sometimes I think I have hyperactive empathy for people. I have even had to walk away from the TV during those stupid sitcoms where one of the characters puts themselves in embarrassing situations.

Se vs. Si- Se. Much rather put my hands on things than to live by others rules.

Te vs. Ti- I'm thinking here is the problem. I have a very high IQ so I have always valued my thinking skills. I think that is why I mistyped myself as ISTP. But here's what I am remembering from my Navy training days. I remember I would learn best by helping others learn. By talking it out with them. I have the ability to delve deep into a problem but I don't really enjoy it. Sounds a lot more like Te than Ti.

Ne vs. Ni- um.... don't have a real good grasp of the difference here yet.

So now I'm leaning towards ISFP. I think I just made the male gender bias mistake of over emphasizing my thinking and devaluing my feelings. Makes since that the big difference between ISTP and ISFP is that Fi and Ti are swapped. Understanding the difference between Fe and Fi has really helped a lot.
 

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i'll just throw this out from left field.

ENFPs love ISTPs. at least that's what i've seen from the istp forum. there's something about that mysterious, strong, silent type that they can't get enough of. and i've also noticed asshole ENTPs who don't mind pissing the world off seem to have a soft spot for ISFPs. and from personal experience the one type that i seem to have nothing but respect for are ENTJs. so, assuming the pattern holds true, and you are an ISxx, which ENxx do you naturally gravitate to/see the most strength in?
 
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