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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The J/P part from MBTI Step II dichotomies/facet test questions (the whole thing is here), in a spoiler because it's long:

 
Do you prefer to:

Make decisions, bring about closure.. settle things.
Gather information, keep your options open.



Do you prefer to:

Quickly decide things, so you can begin acting on your decision.
Collect information so that you can fully understand what is required.



Are you more likely to want to:

Get a decision made and over with, so you can move on to the next one.
Hold off on making a decision, because a better option might arise.



Do you prefer to decisions to be:

Final, unalterable. Once something is decided, that's it - move on.
Tentative, in order to revisit decisions at a later date, if new information becomes available.



Do you feel most anxious:

Until things are settled.
When forced to decide too quickly.



Which is a bigger flaw for you:

I decide things too quickly.
I procrastinate on making decisions for too long.



Which do you prefer more:

Structure and organisation.
Flexibility.



When it comes to surprises, do you more:

Dislike ones that force me to change my plans.
Enjoy ones that require me to adapt.



Schedules make you feel:

Comfortable.
Constrained.



Do you feel you have more of a need for:

Order.
Autonomy.



Which is more you:

I thrive in and enjoy highly structured environments.
I feel restricted by highly structured environments.



When faced with a problem, do you more prefer to:

Set clear goals.
Consider your options.



When faced with a new task, do you more want to:

Get organised, ready to get it done.
Get as much information as possible, to be better prepared.



Do you prefer to:

Make plans, so you know what to expect - and when.
Keep it cool, and adapt to whatever comes up.



Are you more likely to:

Plan your work time - AND your free time in advance.
Plan your work time if necessary, but keep your free time open.



Are you more likely to:

Get frustrated if the plan changes.
Get bored if nothing new happens.



Part VIII.

Select which phrase, out of each of the following is most accurate.

Part VIII-A.

My motto might as well be "Be prepared." I prefer to work within a structured environment. I dislike diversions and surprises.

I like a general plan, with some backups if possible. I don't mind interruptions, if there's no agenda in place. I dislike distractions once I've gotten into something.

I like to be surprised and prefer to take things as they come. I prefer a leisurely pace, and let things unfold as they may. I don't like having to deal with plans in too much detail.



Part VIII-B.

I like to make long-range plans, especially for leisurely activities. I enjoy looking ahead and planning for the future. I feel long-range planning makes me more efficient.

I like to plan at work, but be flexible at home, or vica versa. I might plan for a few important goals, but not everything. I might go back and forth between enjoying the here and now, and planning for the future.

I like to make plans on the spur of the moment, especially when it comes to leisure actitivies. I prefer to be flexible so that activities can unfold. I regret committing to things, as I feel this boxes me in.



Part VIII-C.

I allow myself more than enough time to finish an activity. I work on multiple tasks easily, by starting ahead of time. I arrange my world so I don't have to deal with last-minute rushes.

I'm likely to find it hard to get started on a tast too far in advance. I find the pressure of a looming deadling to be a source of motivation. I work best when the deadline is close enough to cause a moderate amount of pressure.

I feel I'm most creative when I'm under the pressure of a deadline. I find my mind working on an assigned task, even though nothing is on paper. I need to know just how late I can start, and still make the deadline.



Part VIII-D.

I am comfortable with routines, established methods and procedures. I prefer to control my time and enjoy scheduling both work and home activities. I seem rather predictable to other people, but I like it that way.

I'm comfortable with a moderate amount of routine. I feel some routine provides predictability, as well as the freedom to respond to opportunities as they arise. At work, I see routine as helpful, at home, I find it confining - or vica versa.

I enjoy complete freedom and openness to new experiences and see routines as contraints. I'm at my best when responding in the moment. I feel routine interferes with my ability to respond to unexpected opportunities.



Part VIII-E.

I develop detailed plans for the tasks at hand. I define the subtasks of my life. I thoroughly prepare in precise ways, specifying all the steps needed to accomplish the goal.

I prefer to have detailed plans in unfamiliar situations. I'm comfortable without a plan when I'm quite sure of myself. I don't need to have all of the steps in place and planned out, in order to move ahead.

I dive into action without detailed plans. I believe a solution will emerge regardless of where I start. I like to wait and see what happens, then improvise.


Answer key (very simple):

 
Judging V Perceiving.

Part VIII.
All response 1s correlate to Judging.
All response 2s correlate to Perceiving.


Note, for following section - all 1s are Judging. 2s are middle. 3s are Perceiving.

Part VIII-A.
1 - Systematic.
2 - Either.
3 - Casual.

Part VIII-B.
1 - Planful.
2 - Either.
3 - Open-ended.

Part VIII-C.
1 - Early Starting
2 - Either.
3 - Pressure-prompted.

Part VIII-D.
1 - Scheduled.
2 - Either.
3 - Spontaneous.

Part VIII-E.
1 - Methodical.
2 - Either.
3 - Emergent.



So my point with this thread:

I'd like to hear from you ESTPs in terms of how you interpret the questions and why you choose the P options. If you can elaborate on a few answers or if you can just summarize it, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
 

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Part VIII-A.

1 - Systematic - my edit: it's never as exciting to go by a fixed plan/system
2 - Either.
3 - Casual - hate fixed plans, likes to go with the flow.



Part VIII-B.
1 - Planful. my edit: ugh schedules
2 - Either.
3 - Open-ended - no limits or restrictions, gives me breathing room.



Part VIII-C.
1 - Early Starting. my edit: meh
2 - Either.
3 - Pressure-prompted - LETS DO THIS.



Part VIII-D.
1 - Scheduled. my edit: deadline
2 - Either.
3 - Spontaneous - free.



Part VIII-E.
1 - Methodical.
2 - Either - depends..
3 - Emergent.
 

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Here's a decision I need to make and I'm going to answer based on that one decision. I'm debating whether or not to trim a tree myself or hire a contractor. This is a decision that my wife has left up to me so now I'm doing this completely independently.

Do you prefer to:

Make decisions, bring about closure.. settle things.
Gather information, keep your options open.

Do you prefer to:

Quickly decide things, so you can begin acting on your decision.
Collect information so that you can fully understand what is required.

Are you more likely to want to:

Get a decision made and over with, so you can move on to the next one.
Hold off on making a decision, because a better option might arise.

Do you prefer to decisions to be:

Final, unalterable. Once something is decided, that's it - move on.
Tentative, in order to revisit decisions at a later date, if new information becomes available.

Do you feel most anxious:

Until things are settled.
When forced to decide too quickly.

Which is a bigger flaw for you:

I decide things too quickly.
I procrastinate on making decisions for too long.

Which do you prefer more:

Structure and organisation.
Flexibility.

When it comes to surprises, do you more:

Dislike ones that force me to change my plans.
Enjoy ones that require me to adapt.

Schedules make you feel:

Comfortable.
Constrained.

Do you feel you have more of a need for:

Order.
Autonomy.

Which is more you:

I thrive in and enjoy highly structured environments.
I feel restricted by highly structured environments.

(Actually, I'm somewhere in the middle, it really depends. I like highly structured environments at work, but not in my personal life)

When faced with a problem, do you more prefer to:

Set clear goals.
Consider your options.

When faced with a new task, do you more want to:

Get organised, ready to get it done.
Get as much information as possible, to be better prepared.

Do you prefer to:

Make plans, so you know what to expect - and when.
Keep it cool, and adapt to whatever comes up.

(I prefer to make plans, but when plans start unraveling I find myself energized because it allows me to fix stuff in the moment, so much better. I now realize how I used to answer this question wrong now).

Are you more likely to:

Plan your work time - AND your free time in advance.
Plan your work time if necessary, but keep your free time open.

Are you more likely to:

Get frustrated if the plan changes. (You should see my wife start getting visibly upset at me changing things in her structured plans :laughing:)
Get bored if nothing new happens.

Part VIII.

Select which phrase, out of each of the following is most accurate.

Part VIII-A.

My motto might as well be "Be prepared." I prefer to work within a structured environment. I dislike diversions and surprises.

I like a general plan, with some backups if possible. I don't mind interruptions, if there's no agenda in place. I dislike distractions once I've gotten into something.

I like to be surprised and prefer to take things as they come. I prefer a leisurely pace, and let things unfold as they may. I don't like having to deal with plans in too much detail.

Part VIII-B.

I like to make long-range plans, especially for leisurely activities. I enjoy looking ahead and planning for the future. I feel long-range planning makes me more efficient.

I like to plan at work, but be flexible at home, or vica versa. I might plan for a few important goals, but not everything. I might go back and forth between enjoying the here and now, and planning for the future.

I like to make plans on the spur of the moment, especially when it comes to leisure actitivies. I prefer to be flexible so that activities can unfold. I regret committing to things, as I feel this boxes me in.

Part VIII-C.

I allow myself more than enough time to finish an activity. I work on multiple tasks easily, by starting ahead of time. I arrange my world so I don't have to deal with last-minute rushes.

I'm likely to find it hard to get started on a tast too far in advance. I find the pressure of a looming deadling to be a source of motivation. I work best when the deadline is close enough to cause a moderate amount of pressure.

I feel I'm most creative when I'm under the pressure of a deadline. I find my mind working on an assigned task, even though nothing is on paper. I need to know just how late I can start, and still make the deadline.

Part VIII-D.

I am comfortable with routines, established methods and procedures. I prefer to control my time and enjoy scheduling both work and home activities. I seem rather predictable to other people, but I like it that way.

I'm comfortable with a moderate amount of routine. I feel some routine provides predictability, as well as the freedom to respond to opportunities as they arise. At work, I see routine as helpful, at home, I find it confining - or vica versa.

I enjoy complete freedom and openness to new experiences and see routines as contraints. I'm at my best when responding in the moment. I feel routine interferes with my ability to respond to unexpected opportunities.

Part VIII-E.

I develop detailed plans for the tasks at hand. I define the subtasks of my life. I thoroughly prepare in precise ways, specifying all the steps needed to accomplish the goal.

I prefer to have detailed plans in unfamiliar situations. I'm comfortable without a plan when I'm quite sure of myself. I don't need to have all of the steps in place and planned out, in order to move ahead.

I dive into action without detailed plans. I believe a solution will emerge regardless of where I start. I like to wait and see what happens, then improvise.
 

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8/10 Perceiving. Seem to be going more and more towards the P since I gave up on the idea that I'm a J. Interesting. I suppose what I was turned into by my J parents is finally starting to shake off the more time I spend away from them.


Note, for following section - all 1s are Judging. 2s are middle. 3s are Perceiving.

Part VIII-A.
1 - Systematic.
2 - Either.
3 - Casual.

Part VIII-B.
1 - Planful.
2 - Either.
3 - Open-ended.

Part VIII-C.
1 - Early Starting
2 - Either.
3 - Pressure-prompted.

Part VIII-D.
1 - Scheduled.
2 - Either.
3 - Spontaneous.

Part VIII-E.
1 - Methodical.
2 - Either.
3 - Emergent.




Yeah, I have to work on my spontaneity. The thing is that I'm very much inclined to revert to not being spontaneous because others around me have always not been spontaneous. But I have noticed recently that I'm much more relaxed and happier when I'm just doing things as I please as opposed to having long term plans ahead of me.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
8/10 Perceiving. Seem to be going more and more towards the P since I gave up on the idea that I'm a J. Interesting. I suppose what I was turned into by my J parents is finally starting to shake off the more time I spend away from them.

Yeah, I have to work on my spontaneity. The thing is that I'm very much inclined to revert to not being spontaneous because others around me have always not been spontaneous. But I have noticed recently that I'm much more relaxed and happier when I'm just doing things as I please as opposed to having long term plans ahead of me.
You were typing as ISTJ? :)

OK so my problem in MBTI tests was always the E/I and the J/P. I figured out over time that I works better than E for me because of active socializing with a lot of talking being draining to me.

With J vs P it's been a bit more confusing. I definitely can't stand a very P life philosophy, like this crap about going with the flow and letting things happen as they happen. I'm more controlling than that. But I don't prepare much in a detailed way (just basics) or do detailed plans often... I am finding it can help me to try and get prepared for some outcomes to avoid getting angry or getting disoriented and wasting time, but it is still hard to put my mind towards doing preparation. And I have problems with starting well in time for deadlines. It actually is stressing me out a lot to live like a 100% P with that but for some reason it's how it is lately. A long time ago before I had problems start up I was fine with starting in time.

I'm curious if you got any input on this. Have you experienced any of this...


So take section VIII and my answers:

Part VIII-A.
1 - Systematic.
2 - Either.
3 - Casual.

---> I was always this one. No problem here.

Part VIII-B.
1 - Planful.
2 - Either.
3 - Open-ended.

---> I was always this one. No problem here.

Part VIII-C.
1 - Early Starting
2 - Either.
3 - Pressure-prompted.

---> So here it gets really confusing for me. If we go by how I've been operating lately, it's Pressure-prompted, but a maladaptive form of it really. I used to be more like the "Either" option or even the "Early Starting". I would start about in time, and would not be stressed out about it at all, and would finish on time just fine without doing too crazy things, I would operate alright under moderate amount of pressure that did motivate me into starting. And long, long time ago I did not need the moderate amount of pressure either, I would start even earlier than that... it was so great back then. I was kind of "Early Starting", yes. A looong time ago. I still lived at home back then. It was all really nice and less stressful with my whole life too though... So then it became "Either" after a while (I still lived at home when this period started), which was still alright enough though it would be getting close to the maladaptive form of procrastination, and lately it definitely turned maladaptive. Meaning, it gets VERY stressful and I start after last minute, not last minute but after. Means I do things that are bad for my health, pulling all-nighters or even staying up for 2 days straight (I've been getting sick several times actually due to it). It's much like your crazy plans on starting last night April 14 for an April 15 job that you described to me in the other thread. Or worse. Except I dislike this way of living, doing this constantly, and I'm fully aware that I can't do this forever.

So, am I really naturally Pressure-prompted if it stresses me out so much at the same time or what is this?

Part VIII-D.
1 - Scheduled.
2 - Either.
3 - Spontaneous.

---> I was always this one. No problem here. I do relate to wanting the ability to be able to respond to important things coming up but otherwise Scheduled fits, I never saw routines as constraints, I just naturally fall into them. (Of course I'm not counting those tasks with deadlines here. They cannot be regularly scheduled because they are not part of a neat structured 8-hour workday. Hard to explain this well, I can say more if needed.)

Part VIII-E.
1 - Methodical.
2 - Either.
3 - Emergent.

---> Not sure here. If I just take the descriptions literally then it's this one because I'm not really able to make detailed plans of unfamiliar situations precisely because they are unfamiliar so I have zero familiarity with zero details processed. So where the hell would I pull the details from for the plan, from my ass??? Lol, so, it's very true that I get moving without detailed plans and I described this to you recently if you remember. :) I only have the important points of a plan. And I did always believe I'll find a solution. But lately I'm less sure in this ability of mine it seems... which adds to the stress!
 

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Lol. I was typing as INFJ/ENFJ ... Then ENTP (which is what I consistently test as but I know I'm not). Same/similar functions, different order. Then as my Ti started emerging as I got out of my depression, I thought maybe it was Te but it clearly wasn't.

Sensing was something I had never considered. I had been called out on my extreme Se experiences and explosions before by individuals with inferior Se and I wasn't able to put it all together till recently. It's something that when you're not open to, then you miss it and the stereotypes fucking suck.

In the end, it's the dom/inferior relationship that mattered.

I have been sure of my Extroversion for a good 6 years. But I don't socialize IRL. I have no IRL friends or social groups at all. That is not what determined my Extroversion. In my case it was the energy, euphoria I experience when I do socialize and what happens after.

I will be getting ready to go to bed and falling asleep and I would get a notification on my phone that someone quoted me and I would be up and then spend the next 4 hours engaged in debate or discussion. The more I do the more energy I have.

E/I for me has never been about being drained by social contact. For me it's been about what I can do in the moment and how much I can do of something if I'm truly interested in it and isn't stressing me out.

I'm being honest in saying that I haven't socialized regularly in close to 15 years (I have a disability). It was however all about how just continued to keep going ... Like you'll hear about athletes who fight through injury after injury to keep going till their body finally completely breaks down and they turn to drugs. That was my experience with life. I got hurt in a bike accident and went the next 7 years of it still engaged with life and living it day to day till it finally completely broke down and I ended up divorced and doing drugs locked up in a room. That was my first year on PerC. I made 10k posts on this site and some of it under the influence of drugs and suicidal for a few months but then I found ways to get better and now here I am.

I'll get back to you on the planning stuff. On the phone right now and it's hard to type this through.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Lol. I was typing as INFJ/ENFJ ... Then ENTP (which is what I consistently test as but I know I'm not). Same/similar functions, different order. Then as my Ti started emerging as I got out of my depression, I thought maybe it was Te but it clearly wasn't.

Sensing was something I had never considered. I had been called out on my extreme Se experiences and explosions before by individuals with inferior Se and I wasn't able to put it all together till recently. It's something that when you're not open to, then you miss it and the stereotypes fucking suck.

In the end, it's the dom/inferior relationship that mattered.

I have been sure of my Extroversion for a good 6 years. But I don't socialize IRL. I have no IRL friends or social groups at all. That is not what determined my Extroversion. In my case it was the energy, euphoria I experience when I do socialize and what happens after.

I will be getting ready to go to bed and falling asleep and I would get a notification on my phone that someone quoted me and I would be up and then spend the next 4 hours engaged in debate or discussion. The more I do the more energy I have.
I would easily do that too online just like you describe it. But IRL it's draining. Introverts do it fine online, apparently...


E/I for me has never been about being drained by social contact. For me it's been about what I can do in the moment and how much I can do of something if I'm truly interested in it and isn't stressing me out.
OK, everyone uses different definitions lol.


I'm being honest in saying that I haven't socialized regularly in close to 15 years (I have a disability). It was however all about how just continued to keep going ... Like you'll hear about athletes who fight through injury after injury to keep going till their body finally completely breaks down and they turn to drugs. That was my experience with life. I got hurt in a bike accident and went the next 7 years of it still engaged with life and living it day to day till it finally completely broke down and I ended up divorced and doing drugs locked up in a room. That was my first year on PerC. I made 10k posts on this site and some of it under the influence of drugs and suicidal for a few months but then I found ways to get better and now here I am.
o_o I'm glad you are able to keep going. Tbh I've had this experience, too, this trying to keep going thingy, even if for different reasons. (No experience with drugs etc though)


I'll get back to you on the planning stuff. On the phone right now and it's hard to type this through.
OK, thanks.
 

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Extroverts have limits to external socialization as well. My limits when I was a teenager were close to 12-14 hours a day but not everyday. I would need half a day or so to myself. But these limits I believe are personal and relative.

Now, I can't do more than a couple hours IRL but it's because it's not longer activity based but rather core socializing with people I generally don't like.
 

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I think ESTPs are introverted extroverts. I enjoy a lot of alone time also and am not particularly social. If I'm busy doing something, then I'm happy. I don't necessarily need to have someone around to talk to. Parties do energize me, but I don't do a lot of talking when I'm at a party. I do like to walk around and see what everyone is up to and what they are talking about. For me it's more about having something fun to do, which includes observing and interacting with people, than it is about pure socializing.

ETA: How many of us fit the stereotypes? I bet it's very few.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Extroverts have limits to external socialization as well. My limits when I was a teenager were close to 12-14 hours a day but not everyday. I would need half a day or so to myself. But these limits I believe are personal and relative.

Now, I can't do more than a couple hours IRL but it's because it's not longer activity based but rather core socializing with people I generally don't like.
My limit IRL is 5 minutes if I have to do active talking during socializing lol. I mean, after that I will start getting drained. Online it's okay, because it's just the monitor/phone screen so easy to deal with all the stimuli I guess.

More on IRL: if we just go around and DO things and NO talk, then I am fine all day as long as the activity is fully impersonal, task-oriented competitive things.

The point is that in such a case I'm able to just stay focused on the goal to reach (e.g. win the race or whatever competition) and so people are just "objects" like anything else in the environment, in the sense that there is no need to socialize and I can filter them out when I don't need to deal with them directly in some interaction (such interaction is still not a social interaction but a task-focused and goal-focused interaction).

To me this is a pretty introverted approach socially... with zero Fe, unlike what ESTPs have. :bored:


If you meant you do the same IRL as online, then yeah. You do come across as E to me overall, somehow, even here online. :) I wasn't questioning your type.

And I think when you spoke of activity-based stuff, you didn't mean it in the same goals-focused way filtering out other people like I described it...?


I think ESTPs are introverted extroverts. I enjoy a lot of alone time also and am not particularly social. If I'm busy doing something, then I'm happy. I don't necessarily need to have someone around to talk to. Parties do energize me, but I don't do a lot of talking when I'm at a party. I do like to walk around and see what everyone is up to and what they are talking about.
I can't really do that with the walking around people and initiating stuff with them. I'm perfectly fine walking around alone or with someone I care about. Not around other people, let alone initiating with them, thanks... It makes me sick just thinking of that.


For me it's more about having something fun to do, which includes observing and interacting with people, than it is about pure socializing.
Replace "fun" with "competitive" and you get me, I guess. :)
 

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I think ESTPs are introverted extroverts. I enjoy a lot of alone time also and am not particularly social. If I'm busy doing something, then I'm happy. I don't necessarily need to have someone around to talk to. Parties do energize me, but I don't do a lot of talking when I'm at a party. I do like to walk around and see what everyone is up to and what they are talking about. For me it's more about having something fun to do, which includes observing and interacting with people, than it is about pure socializing.

ETA: How many of us fit the stereotypes? I bet it's very few.
Yup. Same. For the most part. As I mentioned I don't even have a social group or a single friend right now but I'm busy and happy 95% of the time.

It's not socializing so much as enjoyment for me.

But I cannot spend more than a few hours without talking to someone. So there's that too.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
But I cannot spend more than a few hours without talking to someone. So there's that too.
I'm used to talking online pretty frequently, too. I'm able to go without it but it does feel a bit different then.

Btw, as for the competitive activities: I think there is another case when I'm okay IRL, if there is just some other goal to take care of, that I can be focused on. The point is being focused and task-oriented. And so people are filtered out.

You aren't like this, are you? With all your fun/enjoyment orientation lol. I believe that's your Se + Fe together.
 

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Nope. No goals. I take things as they happen and do as they catch my interest. I go from thing to thing.

I'm a business graduate btw so I know the value of planning and what is required to be task oriented and efficient and all that crap but I don't care for it. It's not something that is relevant or provides me satisfaction in life.

If a thing requires focus and effort, I break it into small parts and then take as many breaks as I can. Sometimes I'll enter the zone (athletes do this a lot) but that has to be something my entire body and mind and everything in between becomes one with the thing I'm doing.

Then I'm as efficient as a God
 

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I will sit down and think through and formulate a plan if I care enough about something and it requires some sort of plan. The plan has to make sense to me personally. If it makes sense, then I'm pretty good about sticking to it for the most part. I still do remain adaptable in case a better idea to reach an end goal comes along in the process.

Getting into the zone or flow is great, but it takes time to get there, and I struggle to stay interested long enough to get into the zone.
 

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For me the zone happens the most when I'm driving and driving fast. Weaving in and out of traffic, knowing where everyone/everything is in relation to me. It feels like the present and future are all rolled into one and the future is happening in real time. That's about the best I can explain it.

It does also happen when I'm writing something I'm really into like a post about a topic that I am really interested in. Doesn't happen often enough to cause problems, but I bet this is the cause of many ESTP kids diagnosed with ADHD.

At times I get so into it that I have no clue whether @Etherea is even in the same room or not let alone actually saying something.
 

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With all your fun/enjoyment orientation lol. I believe that's your Se + Fe together.
I think it's also because Fe is our tertiary function. We don't use it as much to make deep social connections as people who have it higher in their function stack do. Since it's an immature function, it's more about having fun, kind of childlike, maybe a little superficial. I don't mean it in a bad way. It's just the way it is because of where it falls in our function stack. I think ENTPs, who also have Fe as the third function, can be the same way.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Nope. No goals. I take things as they happen and do as they catch my interest. I go from thing to thing.

I'm a business graduate btw so I know the value of planning and what is required to be task oriented and efficient and all that crap but I don't care for it. It's not something that is relevant or provides me satisfaction in life.
I don't really care to use the word "efficient" too much lol. I'm not that business-y. It's something that just happens for me, working efficiently and optimizing daily tasks and their order of execution etc.


If a thing requires focus and effort, I break it into small parts and then take as many breaks as I can.
I just push through without breaks, but yeah, breaking it into small parts and then watching progress is helpful for that. :laughing:


For me the zone happens the most when I'm driving and driving fast. Weaving in and out of traffic, knowing where everyone/everything is in relation to me. It feels like the present and future are all rolled into one and the future is happening in real time. That's about the best I can explain it.
I'm actually familiar with that. :cool: Idk if I'd use the wording about the future there but yeah, otherwise this is familiar. The faster I do something the better for this. =)

I wonder though if we do it the exact same... When I'm like this, I still want to achieve some goal. I don't know if you do that or you simply go with the flow. By goal I mean things like: get somewhere specifically, to a destination or just to a point I picked for myself, or if it's in a race or other competition, then I want to beat someone else (or everyone =) ), or try to get the nearly impossible done (hence this energy comes out lol) to take care of a task, and so on. Make sense? I definitely don't just go with the flow but direct this energy you describe into a goal/target. So... I still remain focused and controlled to a degree.


It does also happen when I'm writing something I'm really into like a post about a topic that I am really interested in. Doesn't happen often enough to cause problems, but I bet this is the cause of many ESTP kids diagnosed with ADHD.
I also very much like writing posts (or do other contributions) about topics I'm into, yes. It's definitely more fun too than doing some chore, obviously. But there was never a chance of diagnosing me with ADHD as a kid lol.


At times I get so into it that I have no clue whether @Etherea is even in the same room or not let alone actually saying something.
That's the ADD/ADHD/AS hyperfocus I guess? I can get into things too (like those posts etc) but I like to stay at least minimally aware of other parts of the environment as well, or I'll feel weird for some reason. Maybe I'm just not ADHD enough :kitteh:


I think it's also because Fe is our tertiary function. We don't use it as much to make deep social connections as people who have it higher in their function stack do. Since it's an immature function, it's more about having fun, kind of childlike, maybe a little superficial. I don't mean it in a bad way. It's just the way it is because of where it falls in our function stack. I think ENTPs, who also have Fe as the third function, can be the same way.
I've known some ESTPs a bit so I know what that Fe is like. :wink: Tbh the last time I was anything like that was when I was actually a kid. :sad: Since then it's just not been the same. I can be excitable actually in a way but it's not gonna be like the ESTP's Se+Fe lol (more reserved-contained kind of)
 

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@grumpytiger --- I thing this is a cliche and very generic advice, but don't think about why you think you're a certain way and just keep at things in the most natural way they happen. Do.

I know it's an ESTP thing to say and may not be the most accurate way, but where I'm coming from on this is that your J/P stuff only matters to the extent you let it matter. If you're consistently engaged and moving forward, maybe it'll become all the clearer for you.

I don't really care to use the word "efficient" too much lol. I'm not that business-y. It's something that just happens for me, working efficiently and optimizing daily tasks and their order of execution etc.
Efficient is something I like to see in myself but it's not something that's there ... I mean, I use the word mainly because I learnt what this word meant around business school. Before business school, what was efficient was never even a consideration. I was always aware of a general sense of time and spatial awareness but it wasn't something I valued or even desired to value at all.

I just push through without breaks, but yeah, breaking it into small parts and then watching progress is helpful for that. :laughing:
How can you do something without breaks? For me taking breaks allows me to take the time to mull over what I'm doing and it gives me more insight. For example, I took a few days to respond to you and all of this was being mulled over in the back of my mind and I gained the energy to respond. I have a couple of other posts that I need to respond to -- if only I could find them now.

I'm actually familiar with that. :cool: Idk if I'd use the wording about the future there but yeah, otherwise this is familiar. The faster I do something the better for this. =)

I wonder though if we do it the exact same... When I'm like this, I still want to achieve some goal. I don't know if you do that or you simply go with the flow. By goal I mean things like: get somewhere specifically, to a destination or just to a point I picked for myself, or if it's in a race or other competition, then I want to beat someone else (or everyone =) ), or try to get the nearly impossible done (hence this energy comes out lol) to take care of a task, and so on. Make sense? I definitely don't just go with the flow but direct this energy you describe into a goal/target. So... I still remain focused and controlled to a degree.
"The Zone" ... is not exactly that. Or is it? I can see you describing the process and I have to verify if that's what it is. I do wonder if everyone is capable of achieving it though?

The Zone is ... would be having the drive to beat everyone and then actually beating everyone even though you're not considered to be the best runner.

It's being a .300 lifetime batter and hitting a perfect 1.0000 one day going 5/5 and not missing a thing. It's about how Buster Douglas came out of nowhere to knock Mike Tyson on his fucking ass which is something that was inconceivable at that point and how Buster was never able to replicate that performance again. I know these are more sports analogies, but in essence the zone is something you see in sports and performance (like acting, singing etc) more than you see it in other areas anyways.

I remember the HIGH I used to get after my concerts with my band during my college days. Holy shit that high was like nothing I've experience before or since. It was like a drug and it seems like your body is creating chemicals inside you that make you high af.

Something happens inside your body that makes you become so much better than you are normally. It's not "luck" .. It's not suddenly become superhuman .. It's both and it's neither. There's people trying to make scientific sense of why this happens, but no one really has developed a complete explanation for it.

I just know from experience that out of all the MBTI types, ESXP's are the most likely to experience it.

I've known some ESTPs a bit so I know what that Fe is like. :wink: Tbh the last time I was anything like that was when I was actually a kid. :sad: Since then it's just not been the same. I can be excitable actually in a way but it's not gonna be like the ESTP's Se+Fe lol (more reserved-contained kind of)​
I was mostly Se as a kid. My Fe didn't start developing till after hitting 15 tbh and realizing that my mom actually needed help and then figuring out how to help. Before that, I was always only doing things by myself or with friends. I didn't have a care in the world.


 

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@grumpytiger --- I thing this is a cliche and very generic advice, but don't think about why you think you're a certain way and just keep at things in the most natural way they happen. Do.

I know it's an ESTP thing to say and may not be the most accurate way, but where I'm coming from on this is that your J/P stuff only matters to the extent you let it matter. If you're consistently engaged and moving forward, maybe it'll become all the clearer for you.
I don't know what it means "let it matter". I might just be too shallow to know lol. I mostly exist with an empty mind (but yet I can have thoughts somewhere in the back of my mind I guess).

OK that was half a joke with being too shallow. Half serious because yeah I don't get it when people talk about this sort of thing ("let it matter"). This sort of... very personal, emotional thingy instead of just being stoic and objective.

So basically, I'm trying to analyze this thing to figure out a solution for it. Sure I'm keeping over the surface but I dislike a few things about this mess, apart from the stress and the mess of ensuring I don't get too late for the deadlines after all, I also really dislike how it's taking time away from my training. Me trying to start then not starting and so sometimes not letting myself go do my training either because I'm trying to start. Or because I stay up 2 or 2.5 days straight and of course I can't train hard with intervals if I didn't sleep for that long. That's what pisses me off the most about it, really.

(Sure you can keep trying to train hard but you will not be able to recover enough that way, good luck to maintaining good quality training that way long term lol.)

By default I analyze this not really from an MBTI pov but since this MBTI stuff also touches on the topic I got interested...


Efficient is something I like to see in myself but it's not something that's there ... I mean, I use the word mainly because I learnt what this word meant around business school. Before business school, what was efficient was never even a consideration. I was always aware of a general sense of time and spatial awareness but it wasn't something I valued or even desired to value at all.
Oh I have that too: general sense of time and spatial awareness. The efficiency thing comes from that sense of time and from a natural ability to sense what works fastest for a task or a step in a task or for organizing the day's tasks etc, and also a sense for managing resources in terms of what's a waste and what isn't. And last but definitely not least, a sense of logical organization in general. That's the part I'm most willing to discuss about the efficiency topic.


How can you do something without breaks? For me taking breaks allows me to take the time to mull over what I'm doing and it gives me more insight. For example, I took a few days to respond to you and all of this was being mulled over in the back of my mind and I gained the energy to respond. I have a couple of other posts that I need to respond to -- if only I could find them now.
Oh, I know what you mean but for me this can work both ways.

1st: Empty mind/head - I don't deeply analyze the given topic or issue so I just wait until something comes to me. I don't even think about the thing until something just comes to me, some new factor or factors about it and then I can analyze it a little but mostly just quick deliberate thinking to decide on a conclusion or solution.

(Because of taking those breaks, this is probably similar to your mode though I don't know if it's the exact same. Probably not. Because you mention explicit mulling - I don't even do that. It's all subconscious if anything happens at all in my brain there.)

2nd: The former mode isn't enough for some stuff or I'm just not satisfied with just that mode for something so I really start reading up on stuff/researching stuff/checking it closely in my own experience too and analyzing it in general, discovering all details and analyzing those.

+1: If I am already familiar with a topic in detail (having gone through 2nd mode), I can easily act in empty mind mode but yet there is no need to wait until something comes to me. It all instantly comes to me with hardly any extra analysis necessary (only really quick analysis that feels easy so mostly empty mind) and I feel like an expert. =)

So yeah, then it's easy to push through without breaks. If the topic is new, then I may have to go through 2nd mode as above. But sure I can do this without breaks too. Breaks are only there for 1st mode.


"The Zone" ... is not exactly that. Or is it? I can see you describing the process and I have to verify if that's what it is. I do wonder if everyone is capable of achieving it though?

The Zone is ... would be having the drive to beat everyone and then actually beating everyone even though you're not considered to be the best runner.

It's being a .300 lifetime batter and hitting a perfect 1.0000 one day going 5/5 and not missing a thing. It's about how Buster Douglas came out of nowhere to knock Mike Tyson on his fucking ass which is something that was inconceivable at that point and how Buster was never able to replicate that performance again. I know these are more sports analogies, but in essence the zone is something you see in sports and performance (like acting, singing etc) more than you see it in other areas anyways.
Yeah the thing I have in mind here is action oriented. It's sports or other things where you have to move and do stuff to take care of some issue etc. And yeah where I say "get the nearly impossible done", that's kind of like what you say. Though I can also have this issue of having to consciously expand/go past the safe limits that I sense where I can still definitely go past them, yet the more reserved half of my brain (it has an impulsive half too :p) can stop me too early at those limits. It depends on how much I want a thing, really. If I decide to *want* something (or maybe I don't even have to decide, it can just happen too because of extra energy becoming available due to circumstances etc), the limits don't matter.


I remember the HIGH I used to get after my concerts with my band during my college days. Holy shit that high was like nothing I've experience before or since. It was like a drug and it seems like your body is creating chemicals inside you that make you high af.

Something happens inside your body that makes you become so much better than you are normally. It's not "luck" .. It's not suddenly become superhuman .. It's both and it's neither. There's people trying to make scientific sense of why this happens, but no one really has developed a complete explanation for it.

I just know from experience that out of all the MBTI types, ESXP's are the most likely to experience it.
OK my version is a bit more controlled emotionally compared to your description because it's goals focused. But I still think it's the same energy. I dunno, if you want to use MBTI language, it could be Te controlling the Se energy for its own agendas (we all have all 8 functions right?).


I was mostly Se as a kid. My Fe didn't start developing till after hitting 15 tbh and realizing that my mom actually needed help and then figuring out how to help. Before that, I was always only doing things by myself or with friends. I didn't have a care in the world.
Oh by Fe I didn't mean that very altruistic thingy here, I meant that combo of Se+Fe fun instead.
 

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Yup. Same. For the most part. As I mentioned I don't even have a social group or a single friend right now but I'm busy and happy 95% of the time.

It's not socializing so much as enjoyment for me.

But I cannot spend more than a few hours without talking to someone. So there's that too.
I think ESTPs are introverted extroverts. I enjoy a lot of alone time also and am not particularly social. If I'm busy doing something, then I'm happy. I don't necessarily need to have someone around to talk to. Parties do energize me, but I don't do a lot of talking when I'm at a party. I do like to walk around and see what everyone is up to and what they are talking about. For me it's more about having something fun to do, which includes observing and interacting with people, than it is about pure socializing.

ETA: How many of us fit the stereotypes? I bet it's very few.

@Reap and @Selinda,

Can I just say, as an ESTP myself, how much I appreciated these 2 posts? I can relate so much. I mean, I'm a social butterfly in social settings but I'm so happy to enjoy a lot of alone time, too. Anywho, it's posts like these by other ESTPs on here that always bring me back. I love how much I relate to other ESTPs in this place !
 
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