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Discussion Starter #1
I'm posting this article because I am curious to see how INTP's react to it vs. INTJ's. (in both forums)

Ines Sainz Harassment Case – New York Jets Reporter Receives Apology From Jets Owner Woody Johnson | UKTODAYNEWS.COM

What the article fails to mention is that she is a former Miss Universe contestant and has provocative photos of herself on her website. Her attire when she is reporting football games wouldn't be allowed in a business office, or the local news for that matter.


My Reaction:

This story has bothered me quite a bit. It seems absurd to me that Ms. Sainz should be viewed as some kind of victim. She is a former Miss Universe contestant, who dresses in the tightest outfit possible, enters a MEN's locker, and then is shocked that a room full of men with raging testosterone are making suggestive comments about her. To this I say: REALLY?

Let's back up. I understand, the idea of not blaming the victim. A woman walking down the street in public shouldn't be accosted with sexually charged comments. It is wrong of a man to do so, regardless of what she is wearing. However, if she is wearing something provocative, isn't she in some way, inviting those comments?

This doesn't let men off the hook from acting inappropriately, but at the same time, is it not ridiculous for her to act shocked that a guy would say something? If I go to the ghetto at 3am, dressed in a tux and flashing a Rolex, how sorry is someone going to be for me if I'm robbed? Does that make it morally acceptable for someone to rob me? No. But what about my responsibility in the matter to act with some sort of common sense as well; to not put myself in a situation where it is probable that something "undesirable" would happen to me?

What do you think?
 

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Hot girl :O


Where?
 

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I think the football players were at fault, but that she was at fault enough to make an apology unnecessary.
 

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I have to agree withTranceman80 in that while the guys shouldn't have made those remarks, she shouldn't have been to stupid as not to expect remarks like that especially when she goes to a training session where testosterone is raging. She should have either worn something a little bit less provocative or done the interview at another time.
 

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Would she have this job if she were not so pretty? Very doubtful. If you use your beauty as an asset like that, don't be surprised if you get judged by it.
 

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Just askin' to be raped....being so pretty and all... the boys are obviously off their game. Media hype is media hype.
 

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That would be a bit harsh, really.
No, to be fair, some of the comments on here have read to me as if that's what they're trying to say.

Perhaps it's the lack of social interactions many INTJs have, or the fact that many males in here may not have experience with women, but I'm displeased this whole thread was started. No matter a woman's attractiveness or what she's wearing, the only way you know a woman is 'asking for it' is if she comes right out and says it. I'll ignore the social cues and subtle body language, because most of you wouldn't get it.

*shakes head*

I'm done with this thread.
 

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That would be a bit harsh, really.

hahaha....that was pure sarcasm...I knew I should have put a wink on the end.

But those rapin' boys will be boys.....:wink:

The idea of this thread does indeed suck....
 

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<shrug> I doubt my INTJ-ness has anything to do with it. If I show up at work dressed in tight leather I will be getting eyes and possible remarks as well.

Then again, I don't live in a politically correct culture.
 

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I actually did not expected that o_O

Not in INTJland anyway:dry:
 

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I think the whole thing is a bogus, 3 ring circus act that doesn't even deserve media attention. Hot, scantily dressed woman goes into locker room of testosterone raging goons and its somehow turned into an example for etiquette and respect. Why don't we examine the political correct nature of strip clubs while we are at it.
 

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Then again, I don't live in a politically correct culture.
Being PC =/= showing people the basic amount of respect every person deserves.

Would she have this job if she were not so pretty? Very doubtful.
Yup it's well known that when someone pretty is professionally successful it has to do something with their look, it's genetically impossible to be smart and good-looking at the same time.

I'm with bethdeth and Snowguard on this one (and glad to see that the first posts don't reflect the opinion of all male INTJs).
 

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Yup it's well known that when someone pretty is professionally successful it has to do something with their look, it's genetically impossible to be smart and good-looking at the same time.
He wasn't saying that she isn't smart. He was saying that if she wasn't physically attractive, she wouldn't have gotten a job as a TV reporter.

I understand the ideal- we shouldn't let physical attractiveness into our bias. But in reality, people do, all the time (check out the book "Blink" to find out how physical height affects one's chance of becoming CEO). A brilliant person should have just as much chance of being a TV news reporter as anyone else (ideally). But just watch the news. The majority of reporters are what society would term as physically attractive. They could be brilliant as well, but it seems, in this case, and what he meant by his comment, is that physical attractiveness really tips the scales in this profession.
 

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Would she have this job if she were not so pretty? Very doubtful
Yup it's well known that when someone pretty is professionally successful it has to do something with their look, it's genetically impossible to be smart and good-looking at the same time.
To be honest, I have rarely seen a young female reporter that was not hot. I'm not saying this is rightly so - but it is.

Being PC =/= showing people the basic amount of respect every person deserves.
Respect has to be earned.

and glad to see that the first posts don't reflect the opinion of all male INTJs
I would feel the same way if the genders were reversed.
 

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Respect has to be earned.
So if some random guy were to walk up to you on the street, spit in your face and call you names you wouldn't be offended because after all you didn't do anything to "earn his respect"? I doubt so.
But this discussion is kinda pointless as INTJs seem to love double-standards, better let this thread die~
 

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So if some random guy were to walk up to you on the street, spit in your face and call you names you wouldn't be offended because after all you didn't do anything to "earn his respect"? I doubt so.
I would take offense to the spitting, as it is unsanitary. The remarks, not so much, no.

Also, it can be argued that this was not a random encounter, as she purposefully entered that locker room. Also, sexual innuendo is not the same as namecalling, so your argument can be considered a strawman argument.

The one solid point you could make against my position is that it is not fair to on the one had have society demand that a female reporter be "feminine", and yet at the same time she suffers "abuse" for that. As such, it is a catch-22 situation. I have considered this; I am not sure whether this trumps the fact that she really flaunting it.
 

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Okay, harassment is really serious and not to be made a joke. Victim never asks for it regardless of dress. We all know this, yada yada.

However, if Mark Sanchez so much as ever winks at me or or wears low cut in front of me, I'm tackling his ass to the ground. We are going to make sweet love until the cows come home. :happy:
 
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