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Discussion Starter #1
I'm posting this article because I am curious to see how INTP's react to it vs. INTJ's. (in both forums)

Ines Sainz Harassment Case – New York Jets Reporter Receives Apology From Jets Owner Woody Johnson | UKTODAYNEWS.COM

What the article fails to mention is that she is a former Miss Universe contestant and has provocative photos of herself on her website. Her attire when she is reporting football games wouldn't be allowed in a business office, or the local news for that matter.


My Reaction:

This story has bothered me quite a bit. It seems absurd to me that Ms. Sainz should be viewed as some kind of victim. She is a former Miss Universe contestant, who dresses in the tightest outfit possible, enters a MEN's locker, and then is shocked that a room full of men with raging testosterone are making suggestive comments about her. To this I say: REALLY?

Let's back up. I understand, the idea of not blaming the victim. A woman walking down the street in public shouldn't be accosted with sexually charged comments. It is wrong of a man to do so, regardless of what she is wearing. However, if she is wearing something provocative, isn't she in some way, inviting those comments?

This doesn't let men off the hook from acting inappropriately, but at the same time, is it not ridiculous for her to act shocked that a guy would say something? If I go to the ghetto at 3am, dressed in a tux and flashing a Rolex, how sorry is someone going to be for me if I'm robbed? Does that make it morally acceptable for someone to rob me? No. But what about my responsibility in the matter to act with some sort of common sense as well; to not put myself in a situation where it is probable that something "undesirable" would happen to me?

What do you think?
 

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Really - I can't agree with you more. It seem that if you even look at someone the wrong way you get dragged into a court room, regardless of what they are wearing.

{{confession}} If someone wolf whistles me from a building site, I feel flattered, not offended. Well, you do at my age.:laughing: {{end confession}}

Seriously though, in some places you're considered sexist if you hold a door open for a woman.

Nobody "asks" to be sexually harassed or God forbid, raped, whilst going along minding their own affairs. But please, girls, be sensible. Don't go walking around at 1 o'clock in the morning in a city centre wearing nothing but a singlet and a mini skirt. Testosterone is powerful stuff, and the world, unfortunately, is dangerous.
 
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I think that if an attractive person walks into the locker room of multi-millionairs (men or women's) they will get the same result every time. In my personal experiences, locker rooms are one of the most politically incorrect places I have been.

The statement made by the owner is likely the same thing that I would say in his situation. A defusing remark was needed and he avoided any specific names. I would have added my first sentence given in this post to the end of his statement, but doing so may have been seen in some way more inflammatory.

Personally, if I walked out of the shower and saw that girl, I do not think that I would be able to casually conduct proper business with her. If any action needs to be taken by the NFL I would say keep that girl out of that room. If Brad Pitt was in similar clothes and walked into the WNBA locker room I believe that he would be treated the same.
 

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I'm more upset at the Jets' anemic offense (6 first downs? Really?) after they were talking maaaaaad shit all offseason.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hmmm, I posted this same thing in the INTJ forum and got a lot of flack for it, while here, the responses have been more inline with my thinking.

Trying to figure out if I'm an INTP or INTJ.... Very hard b/c one test will tell me one and another the other. I know this is not the be all and end all method, but it is rather interesting.
 

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I'm all for equality and all that jazz, but I don't think women belong in the men's locker room at all.

I'm not saying she was asking to be harassed, of course not, but I think there's been a bit of an overreaction here.
 

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I don't really care. Why would she not feel flattered? It's not like she is forced to wear the clothes that she's wearing. If her goal was to only report on football, then she could easily wear something that wouldn't get the same reaction. From the little bit that I've read, it sounds like she was bragging about the attention she got, then she was surprised by the outraged reactions people were giving the news, so now she's trying to downplay it.
 

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Hmmm, I posted this same thing in the INTJ forum and got a lot of flack for it, while here, the responses have been more inline with my thinking.

Trying to figure out if I'm an INTP or INTJ.... Very hard b/c one test will tell me one and another the other. I know this is not the be all and end all method, but it is rather interesting.
INTJs seem to be pretty irrational when it comes to ideologies. I think it has to do with their Fi. They will talk about how they don't relate to hardly anyone and don't like anyone, but then will defend whatever bleeding heart ideology that comes up, even though the people they're defending are the ones they say the don't relate to.
 

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I'm posting this article because I am curious to see how INTP's react to it vs. INTJ's. (in both forums)

Ines Sainz Harassment Case – New York Jets Reporter Receives Apology From Jets Owner Woody Johnson | UKTODAYNEWS.COM

What the article fails to mention is that she is a former Miss Universe contestant and has provocative photos of herself on her website. Her attire when she is reporting football games wouldn't be allowed in a business office, or the local news for that matter.


My Reaction:

This story has bothered me quite a bit. It seems absurd to me that Ms. Sainz should be viewed as some kind of victim. She is a former Miss Universe contestant, who dresses in the tightest outfit possible, enters a MEN's locker, and then is shocked that a room full of men with raging testosterone are making suggestive comments about her. To this I say: REALLY?

Let's back up. I understand, the idea of not blaming the victim. A woman walking down the street in public shouldn't be accosted with sexually charged comments. It is wrong of a man to do so, regardless of what she is wearing. However, if she is wearing something provocative, isn't she in some way, inviting those comments?

This doesn't let men off the hook from acting inappropriately, but at the same time, is it not ridiculous for her to act shocked that a guy would say something? If I go to the ghetto at 3am, dressed in a tux and flashing a Rolex, how sorry is someone going to be for me if I'm robbed? Does that make it morally acceptable for someone to rob me? No. But what about my responsibility in the matter to act with some sort of common sense as well; to not put myself in a situation where it is probable that something "undesirable" would happen to me?

What do you think?
I think you are wrong, to the point of being opposed to actual justice, in both the main point, and in all of the examples you have given, but at least you are consistent.
 
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