Personality Cafe banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've compiled a guide of sorts for 'Just about everything an ENTP male needs to know for pursuing an INFJ female' (Apologies to the INFJ males and ENTP females, you guys are just seriously rare and information scarce to build a guide for). I have taken information from all over (single INFJ females, married INFJ females, ENTP males married to INFJ females, ENTP males with failed relationships with INFJ females, tumblr even, etc.) and compiled it all here in hopefully a congruent form. I've posted it here just to see if hopefully the information (and the way it's written) resonates, and hopefully aiding some other people in the process to.
I have put my interpretation of things in it, left out names though, so tell me if there's anything that's probably not quite right and might need to edit (for my own and others' sake).
For those concerned that I am another voice over hyping the mystical INFJ-ENTP relationship, sorry that was not my intention. I made this to help myself with the INFJ female in my life, and when I realised how large it became thought it could help others as well. So forgive me if it annoys you.

---//---

'Just about everything an ENTP male needs to know for pursuing an INFJ female'

Let us start with small speculation of how she sees the situation, as knowing where she is and how she feels will then enable you to know what all the information after will mean and why it's important. From 'the INFJ Guide Book to Seducing ENTP males', the first question asked is "You ENTP's can be very ADHD, jumping off the walls and conversing with one person to another. How do I get you to pay more attention to me?

In the assumption that she is genuinely interested in you, take careful note that the first and foremost concern on her mind will be 'he's not giving me enough attention'. That may seem totally contradictory to say and question now as you probably invest heavily with thought and intuition into this. To to be accused of not giving enough attention would be quite confusing. However, be aware that the attention she receives from you is not necessarily the same as the attention you give to her. Don't keep her in your head all the time, bring some of your attention out for the real thing.

Number two question from an INFJ; ENTP commitment issues?
So you probably do not have a commitment issue, but if there is an issue it is not with commitment itself, but with what you are committing to. If you are able to commit yourself through the INFJ disconnect phase appropriately, you as an ENTP probably do not have patience and commitment issues nor an issue with the INFJ you are pursuing. But if there are any issues, they will be exposed during this time which will result in the INFJ becoming well aware of them.

The remainder of the questions all follow a similar trend; How do I know you are interested/flirting with me? How do I know that I am your Girlfriend? How do you know you are in love?
These cannot be planned ahead for, and shouldn't be either. Once again, take this information and know that they could be questions she is asking, but there is no need to extrapolate on them until required. Intuit the appropriate reaction at the right time and attend to these potential questions when you think she has them.

---//---

Her behaviour is unique and specific, so take note of indicators and what they are connected to. INFJs are very good at nonverbal communication. As you have probably noticed she says a lot that others do not necessarily pick up on because she can simultaneously say many different implied meanings through her words, eyes, and body language. Because you're an ENTP, you can pick up on all these hints. Just like in your mind, she places far more weight on the subtle implied meanings and things said between the lines that most others miss. Eye-gazing is a potent indicator of one of these times.

Have a strong awareness of her beliefs and values. A study and knowledge of them will help you boundlessly when you begin to try to spot when she compromises them. If you notice any cognitive dissonance on her part, notice the context and intuit the particular reason as to why. If it is because of a lack of boundaries, attempt to aid her in that. Or if she softly compromises them for you, take notice. This is a strong indicator that she likes you and wants to positively make an impression on you.

Know when she is mimicking other sensor types. Try to coax her out of it but with grace. Do not disallow her to change her demeanour, but focus more on her believing that she is allowed to remain comfortable in her INFJ ways that others find mysterious. See to it that she knows it is safe to be herself around you.

Any written word is boundlessly more impressive than spoken word in her mind. Remind yourself of this. In order to understand the depth to which she feels, allow her the space to communicate that in writing. Meet her on that level, but first initiate it. Texting is not the equivalent to written word, we're talking real life letter writing here.


Bluntness is not equal to honesty.

Time is the greatest currency you can save and spend in this endeavour. Spend it wisely together AND apart.

Trust is the greatest treasure to store in this endeavour. Work for it and accumulate it. Remember, you are an ENTP and so react appropriately when the time comes. This is how trust will be earned. You know how to do this.

See to it that she knows just how much you appreciate her. Exploit the opportunity you have with the written word.

Remember, this pursuit is just as much if not even more so exciting/anxiety-creating for her than it is for you.

Her initiation of conversation is a far bigger deal than you initiating one. Take note of it when it happens, and also take it as encouragement and a green light for you to reciprocate the initiating.

Although INFJs are very attentive, weight is put more on the cerebral than the sensory details. Notice the effort put into dressing up, both of you and her. If she puts more effort into her appearance, take that as a strong indicator for your initiation of something. IN THE EVENT that she compliments something you are wearing, TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE. No other sign could be more of a push on her side. This is not a natural thing for her to compliment, so she will be stretching herself to try to get your attention.


Indicators for you to initiate something:

Lingering around you for no apparent reason
Tendency toward one-on-one conversation
Willingness to be alone with you
Shares personal life experience and troubles
Lengthy and enthusiastic messages
Shows you Facebook attention

Compliments you
Changes in her appearance (recently shaved legs, etc.)
Talk of getting in better shape

You receive/are shown a piece of her writing
Change in her demeanour between group scenarios and being alone with you
Bursts of weird unseen behaviour
Willingness to comply with and make more innuendos
More exuberance in facial expressions around you
Longer than usual eye contact / Pupils dilate

Willingness to listen to your stories
Positively reacts to your Humour, Wit, etc.
Asks questions about you / knows things about you that you did not tell her
*Opts to sit/stand closer to you when she has the option not to
*Comfort in touching / Gives you a tight hug
Placing her head on your shoulder/lap
Willingness to dance with/around you

*Because of the INFJs’ hesitancy to initiate, an indicator doesn't need to happen every time it has the potential to occur. A rule I would go by is if the INFJ in question opts to sit/stand closer to you a third of the potential times they have the option to do so, consider this a good indicator. INFJs will be double analysing themselves, so they won't want to sit next to you every single time in case you get uncomfortable with that. If you don't begin to either take notice or make something happen from those opportunities, she will become discouraged and will stop doing it. Her idea of making an approach on you is making it easier for you to approach her.

*Comfort in touching for INFJ does not necessarily mean an overly positive reaction or even acknowledgement to your touch. I generally find it's a willingness to remain around after your touch. If she is not comfortable she will distance herself from you very quickly.

---//---

Notes to Self
If an INFJ loves you, they cannot stop themselves from wanting to be in a relationship with you. Their tolerance to standards and logic when in love is negligent.

GO SLOW. The cliche of the INFJ's glacial pace to open up is a cliche for a reason. It is true, and more than any other piece of information here needs to be given the appropriate amount of respect. However, an INFJ response to analysing a potential partner is an all or nothing analysis. When you are being reviewed under the criteria of "Do I like you?", there are two potential answers an INFJ female can choose; "No" or "Yes, I'm in love with you". But understand that there will not be a testing-out-the-relationship phase. Once she makes the conclusion that you are too good of a partner to say "No" to, the circumstances will essentially change in the fact that she will start treating you like the two of you are already in a relationship. Even though she knows the decision has not yet been consciously clarified that you are. It will be; A little attention for her, then nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, then EVERYTHING! First the wait needs to be endured. Use this time to prepare yourself for when the walls of Jericho come down.

Respect her need for space and individuality. Just as you want to coax her out of mimicking other sensor types, you need to allow her the space to mature into her INFJness, remember she's an INFJ not an ENTP.

Leave her areas of stubbornness alone, it's not worth the debate.

Just as it is for you, respect the need for recalibration. New pieces of information will force the both of you to recalibrate how you understand and see the world and the people in it. This is what she will be spending a lot of time doing during her disconnect phase.

The volume of PDA or physical touch or the unwillingness to consistently engage in variations thereof, are not reflective of the overwhelming desire and care she has for you. You know this.

---//---


Advice from other ENTPs
In your pursuit ensure to remind yourself that it is not about what you receive rather what you are giving. Attentiveness toward your contribution to her and reacting appropriately will allow your dominant Ne to flourish. Remember, you know how to do this.

Immaturity in the ENTP will manifest itself in the initiation of the relationship. There will be problems in attending to the sensitivity of the INFJ. The sign of the mature ENTP is patience, as this will provide the greatest asset in his pursuit toward the INFJ. ENTPs have the ease of making a grand impression on the INFJ but after having executed it, there is a pattern in the INFJ response. Initially they respond well to the grand impression, but because it is so emphatic it causes the INFJ to retreat from the ENTP.
This withdrawal occurs right when momentum appears to be building after the grand impression. So things seem to halt. This may or may not come with a warning from her, but it is inevitable. After a quick and strong connection has been built, it may seem like a sudden cut-off.
This is not the time to advance, in fact it is the time for the opposite. This is why patience is so imperative with the INFJ. She is not yet ready at this moment for conflict or debate or confrontation as she is going through her large cognitive recalibration process. This is in fact a positive thing, because it means she is seeing if there is a sizable place for you in her life - permanently.
Even though it seems early to do this, it is good because it means she considers you a viable contender and a serious potential partner. However, you need to trust her through this process. Trust her need to recalibrate and trust that there is good reasoning behind it. The grand impression an ENTP makes is what catalyses her withdrawal, there will never be a wa around it. In fact, there would be cause for concern if she did not withdraw from you, as that would mean she has not considered you a viable contender at all.
It is at this time that you need to be on your best behaviour. She will be using everything you do against some form of hidden, unspoken potential partner criteria. She will not be seeing if you tick all the boxes she wants you to have, she will be observing to see if you have any red-flags on you. One is enough. She already knows the good in you, you've already impressed her with it - which is why she is considering you at all. But now she is seeing if you have some psychopathic tendencies or if you are a volatile and impatient person or even if you just haven't noticed that she's not there anymore. She is most likely seeing if you are one of two things; overly dependent or overly independent.
An overly dependent person will crumble and be helpless when the withdrawal occurs. The INFJ is a helper and is best at supporting partners, but never holding up their full weight. You need to show that you have a backbone and that you are worth her supporting you.
An overly independent person in this context is someone who entertains the potential of commitment with an INFJ, but the potential partner is not really affected by the INFJ's absence, implying that they do not need the INFJ's support.

Once she observes that you still remain stable without her there, but also that you are not absolutely killing it; that will give her reason to begin to trust you. She needs to feel like you are solid enough for her to be able to support you well. Keyword = support, not hold or lift you up, because she will never be her best self if all your weight is leveraged on her. But also if she feels that you will not be any better off from her support then she will see the potential of her being brushed aside.
She pulls away because she wants to see if in her absence, there is something in you that is missing that is preventing the fulfilment of the potential you already have. That missing thing being her. If that is the case, she will be ecstatic to fill that need for you.
Key points: have some things going for you, but not so totally kickass that you don't need her. Once she fulfills that place in your life (and you in hers), she will feel happy and content in serving you and will be totally devoted to supporting you in whatever it is you do. If you can do this she will be, in some way or another, in awe of you. Like I said, it's 'a little attention, then nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, then EVERYTHING!'. :shocked:

Make space for her in your life so that she may be assured and safe in it, and then continue to invest in all the other things you have going for you. Balance your investment into your helper and the things you want her to help you with.

Your ability to create fun is a highly valuable asset. Use your spontaneity and wit, because it works. Adventures, whether in the head or reality, are encouraged.

You yourself absorb every detail about her so that you may use your intuition at the appropriate time to know how to react. Never have a premeditated plan of action, you flow far greater than you organise. When you think "it" is about to happen, react in anticipation to it. You are most likely right and will be successful in it.

Pretending to care and devil's advocating/arguing things without weight are liabilities, minimise your investment into those. Quickly and sincerely apologise to any wrongs.

In every situation, appropriately mirror her energy levels and depth from moment to moment, placing emphasis on making intellectual connection. As a result an emotional connection will come to fruition. Appreciate her level of intellect, and make known to her the rarity and quality of the intellectual connection she provides. As a result, include her in your inside jokes and interests. See to it that she understands and feels her unique value in your journey. In showing her this appreciation, you will one day have a companion who will be your greatest teammate in your pursuit of everything else. Place value on her experiences and care about them in a way that they matter to you just like they do her. Understand that her need to recharge CAN include you and may not always require total solitude.

Be aware of your constant need to initiate. Your speed determines just about everything.

A mature and actively growing ENTP will find the support provided by the INFJ 'incredibly seductive' and 'pleasantly surprising'. She will provide the facilitation/catalyzation for your personal ENTP growth. Your greatest challenge and area of growth will be your Fe!

---//---
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
:shocked: That was intense. I'm seriously impressed by all of the information you've accumulated! Can I add one thing? And forgive me if you addressed it & I missed it.

-Follow through, aka, be reliable.
 

·
Registered
ENFP 3w2
Joined
·
322 Posts
was a pretty interesting and intricate read. I'd also like to add from personal experience that not jumping to conclusions is a must for infjs. we tend to assume a lot, so always try to ask for clarity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,782 Posts
Pretending to care and devil's advocating/arguing things without weight are liabilities, minimise your investment into those.
Absolutely. I'm building a mental construct of who you are and what is important to you. The breadth and speed of debate is fascinating, and the sheer amount of data ENTPs provide is awesome. Playful debate is always welcome. But if you get me personally invested in an argument and then it turns out it's not something you care about after all, it feels like the rug is getting pulled out from underneath me. Even though I might cognitively know that I invesfes in something that isn't real, it can take awhile to emotionally/physiologically disengage. The unintentional lesson I might walk away with is that I can't trust you.

On a related note, learning our 'I'm done' face is also a good idea.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
679 Posts
Pffffft.
All that needless reading. The only thing you need to know, for pursuing ANY type, is to work on your cardio. Even if they're faster, they'll start to flag eventually. :crazy:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,244 Posts
I feel this type of thread may offend some INFJs, they're not all the same. To me it sounds like, "How to care for your ferret".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
:shocked: That was intense. I'm seriously impressed by all of the information you've accumulated! Can I add one thing? And forgive me if you addressed it & I missed it.

-Follow through, aka, be reliable.
Yeah I did hahah. But that's okay. If you translate about half of the entire thing from ENTP to INFJ language, thats probably what it would translate to. It's just with most ENTPs (and I know for myself too) we read 'be reliable' and think "okay, fair enough", but we don't immediately know what that looks like. So I've written a long, drawn out scenario of what it would look like for an ENTP to be reliable. Hence the emphasis on the INFJ disconnect phase and why it's so important to behave and react appropriately to that, and what it looks like to behave appropriately in that. Because an ENTP that has the appropriate behaviour in that is essentially practicing reliability. At least in ENTP world it is.

Because ENTPs are bouncing all over the place, for the most part you can't stop an ENTP from doing that (and you shouldn't), but it's about the ENTP's timing of things. Making sure to bounce back to the INFJ at the appropriate time. There was one tip I put there and it's probably easy to overlook but it said 'Time is the greatest currency in this endeavour. Spend it wisely together AND apart'.
What this looks like for the ENTP is being there, spending time with her, giving her the attention, following through (as you said) as she deserves and desires (time spent wisely together)...
and then when she needs her own space to recalibrate and be just with her Ni; use the opportunity to let your Ne bounce through everything it's been waiting to (time spent wisely apart).

This was kind of implied by the overly dependent/overly independent person thing. It may have seemed random but I guess it was my answer to what I think was from 'The Gentleman ENTP Guide to Seducing INFJs'; 'How to remain sensitive to INFJ females but not turn into an emotional pussy (i.e. stay faithful to our ENTP tendencies)'.
Be someone who is kickass and is worth hanging around (that's our Ne) but also not totally independent that the INFJ doesn't feel needed/wanted. Again, I think the issue is always going to be a time management thing. An ENTP has enough sensitivity and kickass capacity to do this, it's just making sure you're in sensitive mode when said INFJ needs it and in kickass mode when INFJ is either busy doing other things or encouraging you to do so. Btw, if an ENTP is reading thinking "well, how in the hell am I going to do that?!", as reiterated several times... YOU KNOW HOW TO DO THIS. It's an intuitive thing, flow don't plan. If right now you think it's appropriate to be sensitive, then do that. If right now you think it's appropriate to kick some ass, then do that. You probably will miss time it sometimes, but this is what you're going to learn. This game of timing I think is all an ENTP needs to be aware of and learn to be a reliable ENTP.

Phew. Done!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
was a pretty interesting and intricate read. I'd also like to add from personal experience that not jumping to conclusions is a must for infjs. we tend to assume a lot, so always try to ask for clarity.
Just to clarify (irony), are you saying that INFJs jump to conclusions and they need to clarify OR we ENTPs jump to conclusions about INFJs and instead we should clarify?
 

·
Registered
ENFP 3w2
Joined
·
322 Posts
Just to clarify (irony), are you saying that INFJs jump to conclusions and they need to clarify OR we ENTPs jump to conclusions about INFJs and instead we should clarify?
Yep, it's ENTPs that jump the gun haha.

INFJ / INTJ (Ni) is focused planning, patience, coherence, convergent.
ENTP / ENFP (Ne) scattered thinking, broad, quick, fluid, divergent.

ie: shiny object is found in the mud.
infj: idk what it is, i need to wash it off to conclude what it is.
entp: it's a ring, let's wash it off to verify my assumption.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,858 Posts
Jesus, that's a lot of info.

I agree with @Windblownhair though, the first ENTPs I met drove me up the wall with their desire to take positions they didn't even believe in. It's one thing to let another person know you don't actually believe in genocide, and that you just want to consider debates for and against it, but masquerading as though you are calling for it is almost certainly going to make me think you're a deplorable person - it's not entertaining. Then comes the issue of lying. I didn't enjoy being around people saying they wholeheartedly believed in one cause one day and the next they'd come clean about how it was joke, but they'd take on that side to argue again - it doesn't make you look attractive, it makes you look wishy-washy, like a troll and honestly it's gravely annoying.

I've experienced the 'taking of an argument too far' mostly with ENTPs. Because they're not the best at reading facial expressions or as above said, our "I'm done" face. I shouldn't have to spell everything out for you. And it is going to be very very hurtful for me for someone who later says that they want to date me who has been arguing against my strongly held values, not because they even believe in the opposite, but because they feel the need to argue when I'm not up for it, prepared or even aware that it's just for sport and not a reflection of their real views. Extreme turn-off. I'll keep someone like that at arms length. Just signposting that you want to hear my counter-arguments to the opposite of my real view or vice versa is a good enough heads-up for me. I am not adverse to debating topics I don't believe in, I just don't like being messed around.

Most of what I'm reading so far, I agree with - well done, you've done your research. Probably masquerading as an ISFJ or other sensor is what would make me harder to find. Because emulating a more common type can make life a little easier when you have no intuitive associates in your immediate environment.

"Bluntness is not equal to honesty." - Fucking this. Even as an INFJ, I have learned to deal with this towards other people. Just because I am being blunt about a view, does not mean it translates to 'ultimate truth'. All it means is your view is likely to be harder to swallow because it's abrasive and has been inconsiderately worded. I've had a lot of blunt ENTP comments come my way IRL and looking back on how much more sensitive I was then, I have no idea how I put up with it other than to have plenty of time away from said-ENTP to recharge and reconsider my reasons for liking their company instead of focusing on the reasons they are tactless.

All my ENTP friends will know time is very important to me: "Time is the greatest currency you can save and spend in this endeavour. Spend it wisely together AND apart." Ne doms have a tendency to be scatty. In a potential dating scenario, you not caring about being on time to see me or valuing your time both with and without me is going to be a gigantic deal-breaker. If I feel you don't value my time when I'm with and without you, I'm going to find it impossible to see a future with you and as an Ni dom - the future is all I care about 90% of the time. In all you do, be reliable - that translates to "he/she cares about my life" in my mind.

Ne has a tendency to make me feel really comfortable since it is idea driven and so is Ni - but I am extremely slow to trust people and many Ne doms don't have the patience for that because they're searching for the next 'fun thing'. If I feel an indication that you lack patience from the get-go, I will not make any effort to learn to trust you because I feel like you're not sticking around for long anyway. Show me otherwise. Making dates for the future instead of just turning up on my doorstep shows you have made an effort to think about me when I'm not there and consider Ni, the most important function to me.

I agree with the list - you've done your research. I pretty much never initiate anything. Some men will say that's because I'm a lazy female, not true - it just isn't in my reserved nature. All of my female friends are more assertive than I - and won't hesitate to ask a guy out. I won't because I prefer others to initiate things - I'm always second guessing whether I'm bothering the other person by asking to see them or do things with them. So I am very very complimented when people ask to do things with me.

And so this: "Remember, this pursuit is just as much if not even more so exciting/anxiety-creating for her than it is for you." Being pursued is anxiety-provoking for me. Even if it's by a person I really like. I am generally confident in the way I read people. I analyse people I like significantly more, so having someone with the courage to do the pursuing and initiating for me makes things a lot easier so I can just focus on being present, having fun and not second-guessing myself. It is very attractive in an ENTP that they want to have fun and explore, but are patient in my responses to said-fun.

Hm... what I'd say about the glacial slowness of opening up and then feeling like I'm in a relationship, while it might be true to a degree and exceedingly rare, it will not be obvious to you. So I wouldn't worry about an ENTP suddenly feeling like an INFJ is calling the shots or not, that should be equal anyway. I think when we get invested, we get invested deeply but again, I don't think you'd be able to tell, at least not with me you wouldn't. In order to get a straight answer, you should ask a straight question - don't guess that you know what I'm thinking. Chances are you'll be wrong.

Perhaps the easiest thing in my relationships with ENTPs is that we both need space and have a life outside of each other and yet they're still more extroverted than I am - which is what I require in a relationship. Also, I'm not adverse to PDA but it's not something I want to consciously be doing for an audience and I agree with: "The volume of PDA or physical touch or the unwillingness to consistently engage in variations thereof, are not reflective of the overwhelming desire and care she has for you. You know this." Sometimes I'll be in the mood, other times I might think it is inappropriate - otherwise, do not read how much PDA I make that day as reflective of how I much I love you.

Glancing at the rest, I agree - have you been keeping tabs on us OP? :wink: This is so far the most accurate description of an ENTP/INFJ relationship I have read, written by an ENTP.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top