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Discussion Starter #24
Sex (especially in this day and age of thumb swiping and "no consequences") is a pretty fleeting if powerful force, so it doesn't surprise me this thing slipped off the hook for you pretty quickly.

To use an uninspired analogy:



It's the difference between fire...



...and a somewhat more advanced usage of its same principles.

So all in fun - you may just fancy a campfire - there's nothing wrong with it (there is something wrong with it if that's all a person can do, but if it's your choice in a time and place fine), so let's look at what happened:

1. "tall blonde chiselled features athletic" - Seems like that's the most substantive description we've gotten out of you about who he is.

2. "the harder they are to get to know the more intrigued i am to find out more" - Mystery box, not everything which is a mystery has anything of value in it - it does however let you project whatever unspecified thing you don't even know you want into it until it's revealed to either contain something you don't want or fuck all. So be careful about that, just because something is withheld does not mean it's of value, plus it's an intensely easy gimmick for someone to be fake about.

3. "One thing I found annoying was i would always ask him questions about himself and he would his response but never return the question." - I'm not faulting this style of interaction per se but I'd invite you to consider something else: I don't ask you questions about things I want to answer - I ask questions about things hoping the answers yield new questions because the answers are utterly outside of my frame of reference - and there are two ways to frame one's mentality around that style of interaction:

A. You're looking for someone to become a "4th layer" over and above your neocortex, mammalian and lizard brain - a source of further, indispensable perspective for things which you lack.

B. You're looking for someone to become a "0th layer" underneath your lizard brain - to push your motivations into places they've never been and have never had innate drives over.

And don't get confused - people are not always looking for both and can't be compelled to be one or the other.

If you're asking someone questions you want to answer - odds are you're using you as the measure of them - and that's only ever going to yield a shallow sort of intimacy at best - it's them relative to you - it's inherently distant - and what's more...

4. ...It yields the dynamic you're seeing here: "But often he would be online on Whatsapp so clearly texting someone but not reading my message. This kinda pissed me off because regardless of personality, don't say you don't like texting but are constantly texting people while ignoring my message." What are they doing relative to me? Who stands where? Who's initiating? Blah blah blah - if you have time to obsess over that you have to be honest with yourself about having a pretty empty life.

I for example have less a to-do list than a to-do lake which I'm just barely aquaplaning across on any given day - I may just not have as much time as you do, I can sometimes by choice or by necessity seek to just duck out of it and lose myself in some conversation but then it goes right back to just being pulled in 400 different directions and necessarily having to triage, if you want to be the most important thing associate yourself with the most important thing - and that's not you by default, it's you depending on how you associate yourself with what is important to the other person.

If the question is how important am I in comparison to this important thing in this person's life - don't fall for that - because if a person gives up easily on things they find important how charmed are you honestly going to be when that becomes you - don't make it a competition when symbosis is an option.

5. "if u win ill give u a reward". Which was basically me video chatting with him in lingerie since he did win. So he just kinda stared at me like a deer in head lights, not knowing how to react. And i was like.......r u kidding me? I look freaking hot and you have nothing to say about that?"

I may not be speaking for INTJs here but I do know INTJs and INFJs have something in common: Self-determination, it comes with the Ni-dom's predilection for seeing things in terms of inevitability but its also being necessarily as heroic function one you're willing to have undermined or defeated in order to grow past it - the hero's journey.

What that means is choice is critical - what I choose to do and not do are abiding aspects of my life; the countours of those things define the principles which I hold even above myself - sex and appetite are not to do with choice, I always want to fuck, I always want to eat, I always want to self-indulge, these aren't forces I can switch off and I have no choice in them other than to not indulge them.

Denise Milani Alexander 4.


If you're appealing to sex and appetite you're doing something which is trying to undermine self-control - I need a better reason than sex to just do that, because if sex is the reason - I might as well just do this:


Is that something you want the interest of?

And so the question is what are you outside of that...


Ladies what would you do if you didn't have a pussy to keep your man?

Suck his dick.

Mouth okay, great.

ANAL SEX

Asshole - see, I just gave you the opportunity to say I'm going to make myself worth more, and you classified yourselves as a series of holes...

6. ".I receive a dick pic from him on snapchat only to realize that soon after he sent me the dick pic I had been blocked on snapchat and whatsapp."

I truly don't understand why people do this or what they're thinking when they do.

***

It was a shallow interaction with shallow results - you don't want to be just a series of holes do you, but if that's all you're offering at best I'm only going to be able to lie to you.
Interesting how your mind works.....anyways I will agree with you on some points, especially 2.

However when it comes to 3) ill shed more context. Its not that just that he doesn't return the question. Its that he doesnt ask any questions to get to a deeper level period. Our conversation is mostly talking about random things or stuff we have in common. Its fun, its interactive but no depth. The thing is, if you say you want a genuine connection, it doesn't matter what approach you use. You still need to make an effort to delve deeper. Ive done that. He didnt.

And moving into your 4th point. Its got nothing to do with "what are they doing relative to me" nor has it got to do with how full/empty someone's life is. Its very simple. At times when you wonder what someone is up to, be it a friend, relative romantic interest. Or if you just want to have a chat with said person. You will send them a text. Hours have passed since you sent your message and youve finished work/gym/socializing with your friends whatever you were doing. Then you remember "oh right ill check my phone to see if theyve responsed'. Only to notice they have been online and responding to other people but not you. So you might brush it aside at first. Maybe he is having an important conversation with someone. Maybe he got lots of messages and his whatsapp is flooded and didnt get a chance to respond to your message. Whatever it is, not a big deal right? Until it happens consistently it gets irritating and rude and disregards the other person's presence.

Also with 5),sex and appetite involves choices too. Just because enjoy sex doesnt mean any tom dick and harry will arouse me. And even if I do find the guy super attractive it doesnt mean there's other factors involved where it would deter me from sleeping with him.

Interestingly when it comes to 6) todayI actually forced a response out of him (don't ask me how i did it) and made sure he couldn't be his usual evasive self. His response to ghosting me after busting a nut was "I just didnt want to be that guy". LOL to which i responded "that makes no fucking sense when youre the one who sends me a dick pick then you say you didnt like being that guy who sexts girls and sexualize them so you block me even tho its your fault and not mine? Then immediatedly unghost me 30 mins later to bust a nut only to block me a few minutes after? Wtf"

See id be more inclined to believe him if he didnt come across so arrogant and unremorseful.

I will agree with you on the last point especially. When it comes down to it, it was a shallow interaction for the most part.
 

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Interesting how your mind works.....anyways I will agree with you on some points, especially 2.

However when it comes to 3) ill shed more context. Its not that just that he doesn't return the question. Its that he doesnt ask any questions to get to a deeper level period. Our conversation is mostly talking about random things or stuff we have in common. Its fun, its interactive but no depth. The thing is, if you say you want a genuine connection, it doesn't matter what approach you use. You still need to make an effort to delve deeper. Ive done that. He didnt.

And moving into your 4th point. Its got nothing to do with "what are they doing relative to me" nor has it got to do with how full/empty someone's life is. Its very simple. At times when you wonder what someone is up to, be it a friend, relative romantic interest. Or if you just want to have a chat with said person. You will send them a text. Hours have passed since you sent your message and youve finished work/gym/socializing with your friends whatever you were doing. Then you remember "oh right ill check my phone to see if theyve responsed'. Only to notice they have been online and responding to other people but not you. So you might brush it aside at first. Maybe he is having an important conversation with someone. Maybe he got lots of messages and his whatsapp is flooded and didnt get a chance to respond to your message. Whatever it is, not a big deal right? Until it happens consistently it gets irritating and rude and disregards the other person's presence.

Also with 5),sex and appetite involves choices too. Just because enjoy sex doesnt mean any tom dick and harry will arouse me. And even if I do find the guy super attractive it doesnt mean there's other factors involved where it would deter me from sleeping with him.

Interestingly when it comes to 6) todayI actually forced a response out of him (don't ask me how i did it) and made sure he couldn't be his usual evasive self. His response to ghosting me after busting a nut was "I just didnt want to be that guy". LOL to which i responded "that makes no fucking sense when youre the one who sends me a dick pick then you say you didnt like being that guy who sexts girls and sexualize them so you block me even tho its your fault and not mine? Then immediatedly unghost me 30 mins later to bust a nut only to block me a few minutes after? Wtf"

See id be more inclined to believe him if he didnt come across so arrogant and unremorseful.

I will agree with you on the last point especially. When it comes down to it, it was a shallow interaction for the most part.
i don't get it.

My eyes would roll so far back into my head I'd accidentally probably swallow my tongue if someone sent me a "dick pic" - i don't get what changed but I'm glad I've stayed well clear of social media style dating apps.


This is the guy you're obsessing over the aftermath of - just: If they send you a dick pic, into the garbage you go - simple, you know there's got to be more to socialising romantically with people than that - if someone does that - it's just...

Unless it was the size of a wine bottle of course then I suppose I understand...
 
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The fake part is when one portrays themselves to be a certain way but in actual fact their intentions and eventual actions clearly suggests the opposite
So are you saying he's not a stand up guy nor is he looking for a real connection? I think you should just drop him and look for someone you share more chemistry with. It's clear there are always going to be aspects of him that you dislike and that's going to eventually kill the relationship anyway.
 
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The fake part is when one portrays themselves to be a certain way but in actual fact their intentions and eventual actions clearly suggests the opposite
Unless of course you can change him to stop doing the things you dislike so much. In my experience, relationships that start off with a lot of misconceptions have the best chance to turn into something fruitful, because it kind of forces the two of you to start seeing things from each others' perspective, and that in turn can create a real connection. So maybe don't give up so easily and the two of you can make it work. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #29
oh nono
Unless of course you can change him to stop doing the things you dislike so much. In my experience, relationships that start off with a lot of misconceptions have the best chance to turn into something fruitful, because it kind of forces the two of you to start seeing things from each others' perspective, and that in turn can create a real connection. So maybe don't give up so easily and the two of you can make it work. :)
oh nono its over. The guy is an arrogant shit who shows no remorse. When I spoke to him an hour ago he didnt even apologize for anything! Fuck that.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
So are you saying he's not a stand up guy nor is he looking for a real connection? I think you should just drop him and look for someone you share more chemistry with. It's clear there are always going to be aspects of him that you dislike and that's going to eventually kill the relationship anyway.
yeh exactly this
 

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Discussion Starter #31
i don't get it.

My eyes would roll so far back into my head I'd accidentally probably swallow my tongue if someone sent me a "dick pic" - i don't get what changed but I'm glad I've stayed well clear of social media style dating apps.


This is the guy you're obsessing over the aftermath of - just: If they send you a dick pic, into the garbage you go - simple, you know there's got to be more to socialising romantically with people than that - if someone does that - it's just...

Unless it was the size of a wine bottle of course then I suppose I understand...
well the reason why i didnt mind the dick pic was cos i was talking to him for nearly a month already, we had met twice, flirted continuously, made out etc. If it were a random person who randomly sent me a dick pic id just end it right there and then
 

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oh nono

oh nono its over. The guy is an arrogant shit who shows no remorse. When I spoke to him an hour ago he didnt even apologize for anything! Fuck that.
yeh exactly this
Well, it's better to know sooner rather than later that the two of you aren't good together. I have some stories about that as well. lol But I probably won't share freely since there are children involved.
 

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well the reason why i didnt mind the dick pic was cos i was talking to him for nearly a month already, we had met twice, flirted continuously, made out etc. If it were a random person who randomly sent me a dick pic id just end it right there and then
You, little sweet-heart, tender virgin ENTJ, don't actually know what you avoided. You had a kind, gentle and passionate encounter with an INTJ. As C.S. Joseph put it INTJs have an Si demon and an ISFJ superego so he actually saved you from your worst nightmare, preventing you from entering into a destroying relationship with him as, I'm sure, you would have made a mistake. For instance C.S. Joseph said:

Chapter 23 "How Do ISTJs Compare To INTJs? | ISTJ Vs. INTJ | CS Joseph",
Verse 34 (Skip to 43:30 min):

"Don't go delve into their past otherwise the ISFJ will come out and then the ISFJ will believe he has absolutely full justice to completely screw you over.

You do not know vengeance and you do not know vindication until you are dealing with ISFJ superego in demon mode.

Don't do it, it's literally stupid! Absolutely stupid! They will feel so morally justified in destroying you and your life, your relationships right and completely ruining your future and making sure you don't have a future because you took their future away. [..]"
 

Skip to 43:00 min for the above quote.
How Do ISTJs Compare To INTJs? | ISTJ Vs. INTJ | CS Joseph


ISFJ superego in demon mode is for instance Freddy Krueger (the gardener) and the ISFJ in demon mode is the killer in every horror movie.

Tina is one of Freddy's first victim on Elm Street (1984). So he was very kind because he actually saved you from that happening:

A Nightmare on Elm Street (1984) - Tina's Nightmare Scene (1/10) | Movieclips
 

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Pfft! He's 19, he's not going to be serious or in it for the long haul. I know guys that send d-pics to a plethora of women then block them after when they've gotten what they want. I had chat rooms when I was younger and most kids that were my age collected hentai or nudes from people in the chat and many others made plans to date people states away only to never actually date. Dating in 2020 is b.s. lol (I'm kidding, it's not b.s. it's just more difficult to navigate with catfish, f-boys/thots, and bots compared to what it was years ago.)
 

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So i met this guy on bumble a month ago. From the get go he was very attentive complimented me so we moved into messaging on snapchat and instagram. Physically he was totally my type, tall blonde chiselled features athletic, coupled with him being introverted made me insanely attracted to him. As an Entj, i tend to be more attracted towards introverts because for one, the harder they are to get to know the more intrigued i am to find out more. And boy was this guy hard to crack.

He mostly initiated conversation at the start, and we had some interesting back and forth. I mean when I told him about the briggs meyers test he said "ill do it tomorow". Paused for a second then said " actually ill do it now". To me this was a good sign as he wanted to do it for me, so we could find common ground. One thing I found annoying was i would always ask him questions about himself and he would his response but never return the question. And he would never ask me anything personal.I just assumed because he is an Intj (he did the test twice to be sure) that it would take him more time to get to that level with me. He also sucked at texting but when he spoke over the phone or video call, the connection was much stronger and he explained he didnt like texting much as it was less personal since you cant gauge someone's reaction through tone and body language. Which is the same for me. But often he would be online on Whatsapp so clearly texting someone but not reading my message. This kinda pissed me off because regardless of personality, don't say you don't like texting but are constantly texting people while ignoring my message. Im a very direct person and always hold people accountable for what they say. However because this thing we had going on was new I refrained from being a pushy bitch. Another annoying thing he would do is, he would only ever answer a question which he wants to answer and just completely ignore what he doesnt feel like responding to. Which is also rude.

A week passed. He had a soccer match and I flirtatiously said "if u win ill give u a reward". Which was basically me video chatting with him in lingerie since he did win. So he just kinda stared at me like a deer in head lights, not knowing how to react. And i was like.......r u kidding me? I look freaking hot and you have nothing to say about that? Later I found out he is a virgin (19 years old) and he was surprised i did that and thought it came across kinda whorey. So naturally I toned the flirt down. I then explained to him that I don't usually do that and certainly just to any guy. To which he responded by interrogating me "So what guys do you do it with?". And i said " Ones that im really interested in".

2 weeks passed we meet up twice because his parents were away on holiday. It was actually a really good date we had. We had in depth conversation and just cuddled on the couch talking. So in my head, this guy was sweet and innocent and insecure because he had never been with a girl. So 2 nights ago he asked to call over the phone later in the evening. So i messaged him that I was free to talk now. He says "gimme 5 mins" and then the rest of the night didnt even call or message me that something came up. The next day I asked him what happened? And he literally just played dumb like "what do you mean?". Then made up some stupid excuse with no apology. So i again looked the other way cos i didnt want to make a big deal out of it.

THEN THIS HAPPENED A FEW HOURS AGO:

Me: Hey whats up (8pm)
Him (was texting other people on whatsapp and only responds to me at 10.45pm): Hey
Me being annoyed i just opened his message 30 mins later and didnt want to reply. 30 mins later.....I receive a dick pic from him on snapchat only to realize that soon after he sent me the dick pic I had been blocked on snapchat and whatsapp. So i went on instagram and messaged him.
Me: Wtf why you block me after sending me a dick pic?
Him: I was embarrassed so I blocked you. (notice how zero apology again)
Me: Thats so stupid. First of all, I usually dont like dick pics but i didnt mind one from you (yes i said that LOL) so you have nothing to be embarassed about. Now unblock me silly
Him: Ok. (so he unblocks me and we continue to talk on snapchat).
Now he gets all flirtatious with me and tries to initiate sexting
Me: Well im down for that because you know im attracted to you but just be direct with me next time. No more blocking bulshit
Him: Kk (notice how it was just a quick one word response to me wanting him to take responsiblity and not be an immature idiot)
Me: Im surprised though because I you said it was a little whorey when I showed up on video chat in my lingerie
Him: No I like it :p (completely contradicted what he said to me previously)

So after we sext a little......we both go off to do our own thing THEN HE BLOCKS ME AGAIN on snapchat. And before he could block me on whatsapp I said to him "ok i'm done with this bull shit. you are so disrespectful to the point where u cannot even be direct and have a proper conversation. You literally are only direct when its something you want or is convenient for you, other than that you're just evasive and rude!"

After that I did a 3 way phone call with 2 Intj friends of mine (males) who basically told me...."yeah....see you played it right at the start by making him chase you. Because despite what some websites say about Intjs don't like playing games, if you make yourself too readily available to us at the start we won't be interested. But you need to remember that Intjs dont really have the broadest moral compass so we tend to be very manipulative if it gets us what we want."

Im so mad right now. Like this guy was pretending to be all innocent and saying how he wanted a real connection right from the start and that now I think back to several points in our conversation and Ive realized that my Intj guy friends were right, he was being super manipulative from the start and really didnt give two shits about me. If youre actually into someone and respectful towards them, 1) you dont block and ghost them multiple times 2) youre direct and say how you feel rather than giving a false impression 3) No matter how "busy" you are doing whatever you're doing, as long as you claim to be interested in getting to know someone, just fucking respond. Even if its a "hey im busy now or hey im not in the mood to talk now lets message later".

And this is all regardless of personality types.

And i thought Entjs can be nasty......Jesus Christ after talking to my Intj friends who admitted to me that they too tend to be manipulative as long as it gets them what they want, I have a question. Is this a common trait of Intjs?
If it was me I'd say I have the same opinion and I'd have the same reactions as him for most of the things you said. I'll look at social medias but hate texting. Most of my texts are limited to "I'm coming over" or yes or no questions. Because I'm available to text doesn't mean I want to or care about it. The sexy video chat would leave me quite cold too. I'd have no idea what you'd expect me to do about it. It's not like I'm gonna do anything with you through the phone, really pointless stuff imo. You're hot, great, moving on. I don't understand what's with the current generation trying to form any kind of connections with people through the phone.

No clue what happened with the dick pic though, Maybe he got drunk??? IDK
 

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Discussion Starter #36
If it was me I'd say I have the same opinion and I'd have the same reactions as him for most of the things you said. I'll look at social medias but hate texting. Most of my texts are limited to "I'm coming over" or yes or no questions. Because I'm available to text doesn't mean I want to or care about it. The sexy video chat would leave me quite cold too. I'd have no idea what you'd expect me to do about it. It's not like I'm gonna do anything with you through the phone, really pointless stuff imo. You're hot, great, moving on. I don't understand what's with the current generation trying to form any kind of connections with people through the phone.

No clue what happened with the dick pic though, Maybe he got drunk??? IDK
If youre available to text and you have both discussed you want to actively get to know each other, then yes, it doesnt matter what you think about texting. its a mode of communication and you make an effort to do so. So if you have started seeing said person, its rude to be online playing with your phone and seeing their message but deliberately ignoring it. Doesn't matter if youre an Intj or not. Its plain rude period.

he was definitely not drunk. Maybe he is bipolar who freaking knows. the guy went from awkward from the sexy video chat to wanting to sext me to sending me a dick pic to blocking me to unblocking me and then blocking me again.

And just 2 days ago he unblocked me again and apologized and said how he fucked up. I just ignored him.
 

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It was a shallow interaction with shallow results - you don't want to be just a series of holes do you, but if that's all you're offering at best I'm only going to be able to lie to you.
Speaking as an ENTJ female (albeit one a fair bit older than the OP), if you're not going to have fun and get laid, then what's the point of dating at all?

Yes, there should be a meeting of the minds. And yes, as an NT, someone to bounce ideas off of and have BS sessions at 2 in the morning about Life, the Universe, and Everything is always a plus. But ordinary friends provide that stuff, too... brainstorming and BS sessions are not a reason to distinguish this person from any of your other friends.

Dating partner is an expanded role that ventures into sexual territory as well, and if he's not willing to make a good faith effort on that front, what you have there is not a romantic partner. What you have there is an ordinary friendship that has been mislabelled.

The expectation that someone make a genuine, good faith effort to carry out the duties of the position they were on-boarded for is an eminently reasonable one, and it is no more "shallow" to expect having fun and sexuality from Boyfriend than it is to expect someone to do the job they were hired for in the workplace.

@theelusivemissp - Don't waste your time with insecure, immature men you will never be able to respect. Find a man who understands the job expectations of dating partner, and who is prepared to competently perform said role.

Edit: And wow, has there ever been a clearer example of the difference in late teenagehood/early 20's in having Se 3rd and Fi 4th, vs. having Fi 3rd and Se 4th? Lol...
 

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If youre available to text and you have both discussed you want to actively get to know each other, then yes, it doesnt matter what you think about texting. its a mode of communication and you make an effort to do so. So if you have started seeing said person, its rude to be online playing with your phone and seeing their message but deliberately ignoring it. Doesn't matter if youre an Intj or not. Its plain rude period.

he was definitely not drunk. Maybe he is bipolar who freaking knows. the guy went from awkward from the sexy video chat to wanting to sext me to sending me a dick pic to blocking me to unblocking me and then blocking me again.

And just 2 days ago he unblocked me again and apologized and said how he fucked up. I just ignored him.
Probably for the best, to be honest. Most INTJs I've known irl around that age are as stupid regarding Se-oriented things as I was at that age with Fi stuff.

Sooner or later, most of them wake up and discover that they have a physical body with needs. Eventually, the understanding comes that it's not wrong to want physical pleasure or to seek it. The maturing INTJ grows to understand that this is important, part of what makes him/her human, and that it is not somehow bad, wrong, shameful, stupid, trivial, etc.

The process is not unlike how ENTJs finally wake up and realize that they have softer, more vulnerable feelings. Eventually, the understanding comes that it's not wrong to want emotional warm fuzzies or to seek them. The maturing ENTJ grows to understand that this is important, part of what makes him/her human, and that it is not somehow bad, wrong, shameful, stupid, trivial, etc.

Lol.
 

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oh nono thats not what i meant. zzz as in im so sick of fakery
Talking about on forums is a very pleasant action. Everyone does not know each other, but they try to communicate on topics that they could not talk about with relatives or friends. It is very good to create such forums for communication between people. People are very shy these days and don't want to communicate. The mistake of meeting people is to be afraid to be sure and ask certain questions to which you are interested in the answer. Be those answers for cheerful and confident communication. You can also practice on various dating sites if you find it difficult to meet. Just try talking to the other person about different topics. The site where you can find special offers for dating here Apksalad
 

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FWIW, ENTJ female here and while I haven't dated any INTJs, some have approached me. A pattern noticed is that they ask a lot of questions about you, even before you show any interest in them. It can get to the point of being invasive without apology. So, the scattered, disinterested manner that this guy's been showing you, strikes me as a possible mistype, including but not exclusive to, that he might be on the autism spectrum (highly functioning which used to be called asperger syndrome).
 
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