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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)

6:42 - There are more and more rapes where women have been strangled and had very severe injuries and when they go to the police, the police say "Well you could have consented to this because of wider discourses that strangulation is normal during sex."

BOOM

If you are into BDSM or getting choked during sex you are contributing to a problem:

https://digitalcommons.unf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1121&context=soars

So no, you cannot be a "feminist" and have a "rape fantasy" - you are not allowed to just change the rules at your discretion whenever it suits you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The "rules" ... 🤔
The "rules" by which you purport to make ethical sense of things and by expression of such apply pressure upon me to act a particular way or another - makes sense?
 

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it's 6pm, get inside my little hens. chop chop!
 
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doubt anyone strangles a woman to death because they think it's "normal"
 
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6:42 - There are more and more rapes where women have been strangled and had very severe injuries and when they go to the police, the police say "Well you could have consented to this because of wider discourses that strangulation is normal during sex."

BOOM

If you are into BDSM or getting choked during sex you are contributing to a problem:

https://digitalcommons.unf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1121&context=soars

So no, you cannot be a "feminist" and have a "rape fantasy" - you are not allowed to just change the rules at your discretion whenever it suits you.
You still on about this?

The second chapter in the book "Women Who Run with Wolves" makes sense of this seemingly inappropriate juxtaposition in terms of animus and individuation (if you subscribe to such notions).

To have such a fantasy is self-destructive, but it may not be so literal of a desire and it is unfortunate to be confused as such (by the woman, or by society at large). "Feminism" is a potential antidote to the psychic frustrations that such a fantasy portends.

I'm curious why this bothers you so much. I mean... as a woman, I know why it bothers me... but for a dude the apparent mixed messages must be quite upsetting, too.
 

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The "rules" by which you purport to make ethical sense of things and by expression of such apply pressure upon me to act a particular way or another - makes sense?
It completely does but I don't understand how feminism and sexual kinks depend of the same set of rules since they are different phenomena. Like having an ideology of equality between sexes as far as education, rights and all on one hand and 2 consensual adults using sex as an outlet for their perception of a power imbalance or whichever problem they need a sexual exutory for on the other is not so contradictory. At least I can only hope that social ideals can tolerate at least this level of human complicatedness if not they're gonna exclude entire parts of the population.
plus why would the fact that the police force conflate rape (a non-consensual act by excellence) and bdsm (again consensual) point towards making people restrict the nature of their sexual activity ?
it points more towards educating the police force to not conflate things so weirdly imho. At least not if it goes in the way of doing their jobs, which in this case is paving the way for the rapist to be prosecuted.
 

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I think the strangling thing is a fair point--and it is alarming if police are dismissing injuries like that as possibly consensual because most rapes never get investigated anyway.

The rape fantasy thing though--I don't see why two people couldn't discuss it and choose to do it if they're both into it together--though of course if it was in public it'd be dangerous and someone would hopefully stop it from happening because there'd be no way to know if it was consensual or not from the perspective of a bystander.

The whole choking thing makes me happy to be celibate. Another good reason to avoid dating (well not really--but I hope never to encounter that type of expectation). I guess you could ask someone up front what they think about choking to filter it out...if they were answering truthfully. Probably bring up something in the news and just kind of casually get a read on their reaction--though I doubt most people are going to open up about their sexual fetishes on the first date--actually, many men might idk.
 

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I don't get the point with this? what is the argument exactly, without irony. Could you clarify your point @Six

A fantasy about rape and real rape is extremely different. In a fantasy you have total control, in a real rape you have no control. In a fantasy you don't feel pain, in a real rape you do. In a fantasy there is actually only you, in a real rape there is someone else violating what is yours.

The idea about curfew for men is rhetoric, not realistic, but a perspective-turning point, and makes sense in that way. With the context that women are often told not to walk alone in the evening and night (like a partial curfew), which is blaming and limiting the "victim-group", and a short term pragmatic response, but not a good solution to a problem.

If the police turned away a raped, strangled and severely injured person, because they might have consented. There is something wrong with how the police work, perhaps also laws. If someone is abused on the street (beaten up), even if there was tape where they said "sure, beat me up, I consent, beat me to a bloody pulp!" I doubt it would be legal? Or in an abusive relationship, if the abused says "I am sorry, it was my fault, punish me, I deserve it..." and is beaten up, would that make it legal? (not to talk about ethical...)
I don't know almost anything about BDSM, but I doubt a lot of people want to be severely injured...
 

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6:42 - There are more and more rapes where women have been strangled and had very severe injuries and when they go to the police, the police say "Well you could have consented to this because of wider discourses that strangulation is normal during sex."

BOOM

If you are into BDSM or getting choked during sex you are contributing to a problem:
If police actually view it like that then that's more a problem with them, not BDSM and those who partake in it innocently.

This is the same kind of bad argument as "if you play violent video games then you're contributing to the gun violence problem!"

If I like being choked a bit during sex, I don't see how I have any blame in the actions of a rapist or the way the broken justice system operates.


So no, you cannot be a "feminist" and have a "rape fantasy"
Pretty sure you can. A lot of people would not be allowed to be feminists if there was a rule about that.
 

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-though I doubt most people are going to open up about their sexual fetishes on the first date--actually, many men might idk.
considering how many people meet through websites now.... most do especially if they're just looking to hook up.












 

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considering how many people meet through websites now.... most do especially if they're just looking to hook up.
That makes sense--yeah when I went on a date with a guy I met ona dating app (okcupid), he showed me his fetlife account which was a little awkward b/c he accidentally showed me a pic of his dick while we were in a fancy restaurant.

I mean...I appreciated it (not the dic pic part but the bringing up the fetish community) because it's honest and clear communication, but it also helped me realize right away that we probably wouldn't be sexually or romantically compatible.

I've thought more about asking questions about values and goals--like whether the person wants to have children etc. but not about asking about their sexuality--so that seems like a good thing if the topic isn't so taboo. I guess it's better not to assume what people are into.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You still on about this?
I'm still on about this.

All I'm asking for is an explanation which resolves it satisfactorily - I know there's an epiphany waiting in there somewhere I just have to find it and I'm all but certain it will explain a lot.

The second chapter in the book "Women Who Run with Wolves" makes sense of this seemingly inappropriate juxtaposition in terms of animus and individuation (if you subscribe to such notions).
Alright I will read this tonight with a shandy under my new fancy art deco wall sconces.

To have such a fantasy is self-destructive, but it may not be so literal of a desire and it is unfortunate to be confused as such (by the woman, or by society at large). "Feminism" is a potential antidote to the psychic frustrations that such a fantasy portends.
Alright, well look just figure it out already, we're tabling curfews for all men after 6pm, is it possible you maybe haven't explored your insides a bit whilst you're manically trying to nerf and control all mankind?

I'm curious why this bothers you so much. I mean... as a woman, I know why it bothers me... but for a dude the apparent mixed messages must be quite upsetting, too.

BECAUSE. IT'S. WEIRD.

You're asking me to enter the headspace: Of a rapist.

You know how awful an imposition that is?
If a majority of women find the idea entertaining - what, I've got to snip...



...down in the basement of my psyche for some sort of "The Beast" Style James McAvoy Split persona where I'm totally down with acting as if I'm a rapist?

Also, Daniel-Day-Lewis'ing this - what's my motivation?

1.

875033


Am I a UPS style bing bong [You answer the door.] POW! Kick the door in: "SPECIAL DELIVERY, BITCH!" Pull a 12 inch rubber dildo out of a parcel - "Oh my god...!!" Scramble off the floor "SHUT THE F--K up..." dragging you off into a bedroom by your hair rapist?

2.

Am I a NALARGHNARLGHNARLGHNARLGHNLNARGHNALARGHARLGHNARLGH!! Make some poor Brazillian cow uncomfortable have her bite a carrot style roided Arnie style...


...banging my f-ing maid whilst she's doing the dishes because he can't control himself because he's ejaculating whilst he's pushing weight on a benchpress sort of rapist...?

3. Or is it a more austere "You're My Property - Master And Commander"


being unnecessarily beastly and cruel to my employees sort of rapist?

All of it's fucking dark and horrific why do I have to do it? Is this really going to be necessary in order to keep a vast majority of women entertained for the course of a 20 year sexual relationship?

I had 3 girlfriends in a row from 16-23 and at some point between the end of the last and when I was 25 when I was focusing on my career suddenly things changed and I've just been left wondering if I've just been missing this the whole time and if so what it's about?

Yet I'm the odd one for finding this strange... ?
 
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At one of my highschools we had this teacher who would throw pizza parties, but only for girls, The guys had to sit in the hallway, because they were "problematic", until it was over.

After it was done, she invited us to come back into the classroom and pickup the trash though.
 

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At one of my highschools we had this teacher who would throw pizza parties, but only for girls, The guys had to sit in the hallway, because they were "problematic", until it was over.

After it was done, she invited us to come back into the classroom and pickup the trash though.
Wow--that is so mean. What a terrible teacher.
 

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My question is how is having rape fantasy role plays when having sex completely different from wanting to be a part of an actual rape? That's fucked up. What next? Should it be "normal" to also role play and pretend your partner is 8 years old? Anything goes, right? Nothing is too fucked up. Bullshit.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
If police actually view it like that then that's more a problem with them, not BDSM and those who partake in it innocently.
Lest we forget, in the UK we've got a police force that's scared to tackle rape gangs who pour boiling water onto women children and nail their tongues to tables because it might be considered "Islamophobic". I mean that's f-ing beautiful - and I'd be considered the one who has a problematic viewpoint on that because of course in the views of modern wokeism rape victims should shut up for the sake of diversity!

With an ethical framework so profoundly fucked how are they supposed to tell who's been raped and who hasn't when it's alright if you're having hot candle wax dripped over you if it's "by consent"?

This is the same kind of bad argument as "if you play violent video games then you're contributing to the gun violence problem!"
Would you play a game where you raped someone @Hexigoon?

I'll tell you the answer: The answer is no because there's no protagonist who's ever out on their "heroic quest" who has to stick a few rapes into their learning curve.

Violence on the other hand has legitimate uses. Which are at times morally justified.

Otherwise why are we even allowing our governments and police to have weapons either?

As if governments or police have a fantastic track record for being morally justified in the first place compared to the supposed populaces they're both ostensibly appointed by and drawn from.

If I like being choked a bit during sex, I don't see how I have any blame in the actions of a rapist or the way the broken justice system operates.
It's making violence a normalised aspect of sex. Do you like being slapped around a bit too? How normal does aggression have to become and how much - how difficult does it make it telling what has or hasn't been consented to if it's "normal" to have violent intercourse "consensually"?

And for me personally I don't think these are uncomfortable questions I think they have obvious answers.

Pretty sure you can. A lot of people would not be allowed to be feminists if there was a rule about that.
I know there are exceptions.

I know there are juxtapositions.

I know there are paradoxes.

But not simulating rape - you cannot simultaneously lambast men for being denizens of rape culture and enjoy it if you're "consensually forced to have sex" - stop imposing this kind of abuse on the ethical fabric of society it's clearly a product of your own inability to control your impulses.

Edit: Also I don't mean "you" I mean the royal / plural "you".
 
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