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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When reading about how other types interact with INTJs I come across statements such as this:

“I love INTJs, they help me solve problems/do my homework/make me rich/motivate and inspire and in turn I keep them grounded in reality”.

Do INTJs really need to be grounded in reality? How do other INTJs feel about the assumption that INTJs need to be grounded in reality? Are INTJs absent minded? Do INTJs believe in the Easter bunny? Do INTJs remember to brush their teeth or eat their dinner? Do you pick your nose in public?
 

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I'll give a serious answer. Reality is the only thing that actually matters to me. I get somewhat hysterical when I'm not in it. I get very upset at others trying to manipulate me into discounting or distorting reality to make them feel comfortable. I compare the stream of thought/feeling coming out of my subconscious with reality all through my day. I treat science as religion, and I mean that literally. The idea of living in a fantasy world gives me the shudders. But I'm really close to the stereotype extreme of INTJ, so probably not the average here.
 

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Sometimes I'm absent minded, but I'm pretty well grounded in reality. Not like ESTJ, though. I think those people say INTJ when they're actually referring to INTP.
 

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I guess our blank looks while we are thinking must irritate others and they misconstrue the look for being in a non-reality state. It seems to be an outsiders perception.

The statement seems a little naive and not really grounded in reality.:laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Great replies so far.

I think out of all types, INTJs would be the most realistic given Ni dom/Te aux tendency to deconstruct symbols and meanings, looking past the expected and superficial, constantly searching for the essence that lurks behind face value definitions.
 

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Great replies so far.

I think out of all types, INTJs would be the most realistic given Ni dom/Te aux tendency to deconstruct symbols and meanings, looking past the expected and superficial, constantly searching for the essence that lurks behind face value definitions.
I thought that too but I've come to the conclusion that ENTJs would be better grounded. They have the Te-Se factor in those cog functions so that seems like the most optimal answer. As an INTJ, I live 50% of the time in my own mind. I like it that way.

I started a thread on it too:
http://personalitycafe.com/nts-temperament-forum-intellects/35188-most-realistic-nt-types.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I thought that too but I've come to the conclusion that ENTJs would be better grounded. They have the Te-Se factor in those cog functions so that seems like the most optimal answer. As an INTJ, I live 50% of the time in my own mind. I like it that way.

I started a thread on it too:
http://personalitycafe.com/nts-temperament-forum-intellects/35188-most-realistic-nt-types.html
Thanks for the link. I'd have to agree with most on the ENTJ comment, but personally feel INTJ/ENTJ can be very similar, especially in certain contexts and situations. I read a post (can't remember which) that said an INTJ with a high percentage Te or an ENTJ with a high Ni would be indistinguishable. I’ll just call it an NTJ thing :)
 

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Thanks for the link. I'd have to agree with most on the ENTJ comment, but personally feel INTJ/ENTJ can be very similar, especially in certain contexts and situations. I read a post (can't remember which) that said an INTJ with a high percentage Te or an ENTJ with a high Ni would be indistinguishable. I’ll just call it an NTJ thing :)
Yeah, but I also see a lot of differences between ENTJ/INTJ. For example, our Ni-Fi allows us to look at the world in gray versus the ENTJ Te-Se who looks at the world in purely black and white. We are also better contingency planners compared to ENTJs because we use our Ni to collect more possibilities to create an optimal method. Further, we grasp more theoretical aspects and are able to refine it into an realistic means. ENTJs do not have this ability, they only know the way of action.
 

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In a few aspects, I have kept my INTJ friend grounded in reality.

If not, she would've controlled the changes in her environment way too much or be too blunt, thinking that other people might ''need it.''

I'm aware this sounds vague though, but I'm only speaking from experience. It could possibly not apply to most other INTJ's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah, but I also see a lot of differences between ENTJ/INTJ. For example, our Ni-Fi allows us to look at the world in gray versus the ENTJ Te-Se who looks at the world in purely black and white. We are also better contingency planners compared to ENTJs because we use our Ni to collect more possibilities to create an optimal method. Further, we grasp more theoretical aspects and are able to refine it into an realistic means. ENTJs do not have this ability, they only know the way of action.
OK, we should define what we mean by “realistic” before we continue. This is how you defined it in your previous thread:

“Realistic:
1. Tending to or expressing an awareness of things as they really are
2. Of or relating to the representation of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are “

Both of these definitions are an expression of Te. The above conditions have nothing to do with Se as it relates to objects, actions and social conditions and how they are perceived by the senses. External realities such as mathematical laws, for instance, relates to logic and logic is an expression of Te.

The expression of the Te is what grounds a type in reality; the Te is focused on what is, while the Se is focused on the immediate observables as they appear to the senses. For this reason, an INTJ with a high Te can be a supreme pragmatist. This is also why other Te types (ISTJ, ESTP, ESTJ, ENTJ) are also considered to be realists. The one thing they all have in common is the Te. Personally though, I take it a bit further and say that the ability of Ni to deconstruct aids in realistic perception hence NTJ types.
 

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“Realistic:
1. Tending to or expressing an awareness of things as they really are
2. Of or relating to the representation of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are “
Pushing aside MBTI for a while, and I am aware that I might provoke offense by derailing this thread by the way....

At times in modern society taking information quickly at surface, face value can often be interpreted as 'realistic' when it might not be the case.

Added: Ugh I went off topic. My mind again.

Sorry. Carry on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Pushing aside MBTI for a while, and I am aware that I might provoke offense by derailing this thread by the way....

At times in modern society taking information quickly at surface, face value can often be interpreted as 'realistic' when it might not be the case.
Agreed. This sort of discussion is difficult because defining "reality" is a pain in the ass. People with greater minds have been trying to do it for centuries to no avail. If we can't come to a consensus then everything else is just fluff.

The original OP was curious to how INTJs feel when others perceive them as being "unrealistic", not necessarily about what type was the most realistic.
 

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Agreed. This sort of discussion is difficult because defining "reality" is a pain in the ass. People with greater minds have been trying to do it for centuries to no avail. If we can't come to a consensus then everything else is just fluff.

The original OP was curious to how INTJs feel when others perceive them as being "unrealistic", not necessarily about what type was the most realistic.
Okay..I guess, based on experience, here's a few reasons why I had the tendency to think that a few INTJ's can seem unrealistic:

  • They seem as if they cannot see possible changes in certain things and think that solutions are more fixed than they actually are
  • They seem to think that people need to hear what they perceive as the fixed truth, when what other people perceive as truth may have been constructed with depth and meanings of their own (remember that). It helps to remember that people are also very personal beings, and that's why we need empathy, even though it can seem hard to understand.

It could be just my ''P'' though. I don't want to sound biased.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Okay..I guess, based on experience, here's a few reasons why I had the tendency to think that a few INTJ's can seem unrealistic:

  • They seem as if they cannot see possible changes in certain things and think that solutions are more fixed than they actually are
  • They seem to think that people need to hear what they perceive as the fixed truth, when what other people perceive as truth may have been constructed with depth and meanings of their own (remember that). It helps to remember that people are also very personal beings, and that's why we need empathy, even though it can seem hard to understand.

It could be just my ''P'' though. I don't want to sound biased.
While I can argue that appearing stubborn is only an external manifestion as the Ni is mostly internally flexible and fluid (hence contingency planning), I respect your viewpoints and concede that INTJs have mastered the stubborn "look" and probably wear it more than they should. And for the lack of empathy, I totally understand where you are coming from. :)

Oh yeah, and I appreciate your inputs.
 

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:crazy: Maybe it helps to think of it this way.

Example:

Box
- representation of reality.

When you look at the box, remember how people can be carried away by empathy or emotional overload due to the personal meanings, connected consciousness that surround the whole box. The box might appear to be of the same shape, but it is still shaped by what surrounds it.

Gah if that makes sense. Sorry if it's a poor example.
 

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In a few aspects, I have kept my INTJ friend grounded in reality.

If not, she would've controlled the changes in her environment way too much or be too blunt, thinking that other people might ''need it.''
I don't think it is possible to control your environment too much. An INTJ sees patterns and symbols; an environment that isn't controlled for that factor will put the other cog functions into overdrive. When I'm out of balance, my Ni starts seeing things that don't exist. By returning to routine I am able to ignore the red herrings. Therefore, it is imperative that I control my environment as much as possible.

Okay..I guess, based on experience, here's a few reasons why I had the tendency to think that a few INTJ's can seem unrealistic:

  • They seem as if they cannot see possible changes in certain things and think that solutions are more fixed than they actually are
  • They seem to think that people need to hear what they perceive as the fixed truth, when what other people perceive as truth may have been constructed with depth and meanings of their own (remember that). It helps to remember that people are also very personal beings, and that's why we need empathy, even though it can seem hard to understand.
INTJs don't necessarily see solutions as fixed but simply as the best option given a particular set of variables. Change a variable and we will change our solution. We are not touchy-feely; we will not change our minds because you don't like the answer.

Truth in the spiritual sense is the only truth that is malleable and personal. All other truths are indeed fixed -- depth, meaning, and empathy are irrelevant.
 

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I don't think it is possible to control your environment too much. An INTJ sees patterns and symbols; an environment that isn't controlled for that factor will put the other cog functions into overdrive. When I'm out of balance, my Ni starts seeing things that don't exist. By returning to routine I am able to ignore the red herrings. Therefore, it is imperative that I control my environment as much as possible.
Yes, but an INTJ that appears stubborn need to understand that other people may respond to the environment differently, but such people can still get the work done.


INTJs don't necessarily see solutions as fixed but simply as the best option given a particular set of variables. Change a variable and we will change our solution. We are not touchy-feely; we will not change our minds because you don't like the answer.

Truth in the spiritual sense is the only truth that is malleable and personal. All other truths are indeed fixed -- depth, meaning, and empathy are irrelevant.
Even if you tell someone something that you see as the ultimate truth, learn to identify the other person's boundaries and values as well. Empathy can be relevant because human nature is too diverse.

I'm not asking you to be empathetic, but I'm suggesting that you consider why empathy is important for others.


I hope I didn't offend anyone though. I only really know very few INTJ's compared to most so yeah. I may not be aware enough of the majority, I admit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
INTJs don't necessarily see solutions as fixed but simply as the best option given a particular set of variables. Change a variable and we will change our solution. We are not touchy-feely; we will not change our minds because you don't like the answer.
Yeah, this pretty much sums it up and lays down a lot of stereotypes about the scientist variant.
 

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Btw I'm aware that I might not give the right answers, because I still don't know enough INTJ's..so..

*Bows out*

Sorry.
 
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