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Probably a Seven, but his MBTI is less clear. :ninja:
King Henry VIII
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ENTP or ENTJ I'd think.
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ESTP or ENTP.
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Typing the Tudors:
Henry VIII: ENTP
Elizabeth I: INTJ or P (also seen typed as ESTJ but it's very hard to know because she was so private about herself. Certainly a Rational temperament type)
Mary I: ISFP
Henry VII: ESTJ
Edward VI: hard to type considering he died at age 16.
Henry VIII: ENTP
Elizabeth I: INTJ or P (also seen typed as ESTJ but it's very hard to know because she was so private about herself. Certainly a Rational temperament type)
Mary I: ISFP
Henry VII: ESTJ
Edward VI: hard to type considering he died at age 16.
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I laugh at what I thought Henry was before; maybe he was an ESFP (certainly Fi-Te, Te came out especially towards the end of his life). Hard to know what Elizabeth was considering that her personality became more of an archetype or symbol as time went on (kind of like Richard III).
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ENTP 7w8 or 8w7>3w2 not sure of his instinctual variant
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Henry VII: XSTJ, maybe inferior Ne -- paranoid.
Henry VIII: ESTP
Katharine of Aragon: ESFJ (terrific Fe-user)
Anne Boleyn: Hmm, she was unusual. Strong Se/Te dynamic. ENTJ or ESFP?
Jane Seymour: ISFJ
Anne of Cleves: Charming. Laid back. Easygoing. Fe, certainly.
Katherine Howard: ESFP
Catherine Parr: ESFJ? Everything with Henry and her later husband and her passive treatment of Elizabeth seems like unhealthy FeSi.
Mary Tudor: ISFJ. Ne-inferior, less apt at socialization and manipulation than her mother. Rigid Si.
Elizabeth: an enigma. I tend to thin NFJ/STP.
Lady Jane Grey: ISTJ. Unbending.
Prince Edward: Same, I think.
Henry VIII: ESTP
Katharine of Aragon: ESFJ (terrific Fe-user)
Anne Boleyn: Hmm, she was unusual. Strong Se/Te dynamic. ENTJ or ESFP?
Jane Seymour: ISFJ
Anne of Cleves: Charming. Laid back. Easygoing. Fe, certainly.
Katherine Howard: ESFP
Catherine Parr: ESFJ? Everything with Henry and her later husband and her passive treatment of Elizabeth seems like unhealthy FeSi.
Mary Tudor: ISFJ. Ne-inferior, less apt at socialization and manipulation than her mother. Rigid Si.
Elizabeth: an enigma. I tend to thin NFJ/STP.
Lady Jane Grey: ISTJ. Unbending.
Prince Edward: Same, I think.
I would agree with all of these.
For Anne of Cleaves I lean towards ESFJ more than ENFJ, but she was an Fe dom through and through.
And it's hard with Anne Bolyen because she was so controversial at the time, but I believe ESFP over ENTJ, she didn't have the higher Te-Ni dynamic that Elizabeth I ruled with.
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I actually now wonder if Catherine Parr was an intuitive; she spent the most time, out of all the wives, discussing the abstract themes of religion, progress, etc., and was very "pushy" in promoting Reformist views. She almost went too far with it, and nearly got herself arrested / killed.
INFP? ENFJ? ENFP?
INFP? ENFJ? ENFP?
I wouldn't say that I could see much Fi or Ne in her so if we are going to say that she is an intuitive my guess would be ENFJ, although I'm not fully sure that she is not an ESFJ. She did discuss issues of religion sure, but this was more later on in her life. I her early years we see her being a far more socially appropriate woman who stayed within the roles that society had set for her(much like Jane Seymore).
It was only once she was married to Henry, and was forced not to follow her heart that she truly delved into the abstract and religious, the thing that were not tangible in the life she was being pushed into.
And, she didn't push like Cromwell. Granted, I haven't read about her in a few years, but from my understanding she didn't shape it, pave the way as he did, in the way that means many have called him the 'architect' of the reformation(at least before he fell from power). There was less clarity of 'this is the true way'.
It seemed more of a study texts, other people work and then pull them together to work out the truth. It's how I work out things like this. Simply because someone is a senor doesn't mean that they cannot delve into religious issues, the nobility of England were predominantly doing it at the time, they were just less vocal about it.
It was only once she was married to Henry, and was forced not to follow her heart that she truly delved into the abstract and religious, the thing that were not tangible in the life she was being pushed into.
And, she didn't push like Cromwell. Granted, I haven't read about her in a few years, but from my understanding she didn't shape it, pave the way as he did, in the way that means many have called him the 'architect' of the reformation(at least before he fell from power). There was less clarity of 'this is the true way'.
It seemed more of a study texts, other people work and then pull them together to work out the truth. It's how I work out things like this. Simply because someone is a senor doesn't mean that they cannot delve into religious issues, the nobility of England were predominantly doing it at the time, they were just less vocal about it.
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So glad that there is a Tudors thread!
But yeah I'd agree with the typing of ESFJ over ENFJ I think.
Seems more like she was just intelligent enough to discuss it than anything else. Anne got into it this stuff too and she was likely an ESFP, if she hadn't become overwhelmed with issues like giving the King an heir I could definitely see her getting more involved.
But yeah I'd agree with the typing of ESFJ over ENFJ I think.
Seems more like she was just intelligent enough to discuss it than anything else. Anne got into it this stuff too and she was likely an ESFP, if she hadn't become overwhelmed with issues like giving the King an heir I could definitely see her getting more involved.
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Considering Catherine Parr was married for her "nursing skills" and Henry liked her because she took care of her invalid husband(s) quietly and without complaint, SFJ is probably correct, although it baffles me how a higher Si with lower Ne wouldn't be more careful in pushing her agenda with a man who had proven himself (and she had the benefit of watching ALL the wives fall) to be psychopathic, unstable, and intolerant of people telling him what to do.
Even Katharine of Aragon was careful in how she dealt with him, and she only had experience, for awhile, with Henry being a minor asshole, rather than one who chopped all his former friends' heads off.
ETA: Cromwell was a highly effective INTJ. His biggest mistake was one of "what's useful" (Te) over "emotional connections" (inability to understand Henry's irrational "but she stinks, and I don't like her" reaction to Anne of Cleves).
I've actually seen ESTJ proposed for Katharine of Aragon, considering she out-maneuvered her husband so skillfully during the divorce and managed to stay one step ahead of his lawyers; she had to represent herself, for the most part, throughout everything, with little advice, and in many ways was indeed, as Anne Boleyn so bluntly put it, "sure to have the upper hand" in any argument with Henry. But... her intense emotions seem to ride closer to the surface than I'd expect from an ESTJ; I can't see an ESTJ writing "woe is me" e-mails to Spain for years on end, nor being incapable of managing her household expenses and letting others handle her affairs as KoA was after Arthur died. Even if you can make an argument that she was young and without experience, I think Te might have stepped in sooner, decisively (she eventually did, and was incredibly efficient at everything she did, though, so... maybe I'm wrong?).
BTW, Cardinal Wolsey was an ESTJ. Brilliant man.
Thomas More, I have more trouble with. One of my INTJ friends say INFP; but he seemed to use Te very well, at least with his job -- he kind of single-highhandedly went in and cleaned up the entire backlog of criminal court cases in his appointment to the office of High Sheriff; he was also an effective Lord Chancellor. His intense focus on the intangible, on higher things, his philosophical letters to Erasmus, his endless satires, etc., suggest Intuitive dominance of some kind -- but he lacks the singular vision and EXTREME forward thinking of Cromwell (Ni), so... I can see shades of INTJ at times (particularly in some of his prophecies about Henry -- he said rather early on that he may consider himself a friend to the king, but if the king might win a foreign castle by giving them Thomas More's head, he'd do it) but... I dunno, could INFP be correct?
Erasmus, though, there's a ENFP for you. Intense, theological, offensive, and thought-provoking all at once; his morality bled through once in awhile but fell beneath "I can turn everything into a joke" -- which is probably why I like Erasmus so much.
Even Katharine of Aragon was careful in how she dealt with him, and she only had experience, for awhile, with Henry being a minor asshole, rather than one who chopped all his former friends' heads off.
ETA: Cromwell was a highly effective INTJ. His biggest mistake was one of "what's useful" (Te) over "emotional connections" (inability to understand Henry's irrational "but she stinks, and I don't like her" reaction to Anne of Cleves).
I've actually seen ESTJ proposed for Katharine of Aragon, considering she out-maneuvered her husband so skillfully during the divorce and managed to stay one step ahead of his lawyers; she had to represent herself, for the most part, throughout everything, with little advice, and in many ways was indeed, as Anne Boleyn so bluntly put it, "sure to have the upper hand" in any argument with Henry. But... her intense emotions seem to ride closer to the surface than I'd expect from an ESTJ; I can't see an ESTJ writing "woe is me" e-mails to Spain for years on end, nor being incapable of managing her household expenses and letting others handle her affairs as KoA was after Arthur died. Even if you can make an argument that she was young and without experience, I think Te might have stepped in sooner, decisively (she eventually did, and was incredibly efficient at everything she did, though, so... maybe I'm wrong?).
BTW, Cardinal Wolsey was an ESTJ. Brilliant man.
Thomas More, I have more trouble with. One of my INTJ friends say INFP; but he seemed to use Te very well, at least with his job -- he kind of single-highhandedly went in and cleaned up the entire backlog of criminal court cases in his appointment to the office of High Sheriff; he was also an effective Lord Chancellor. His intense focus on the intangible, on higher things, his philosophical letters to Erasmus, his endless satires, etc., suggest Intuitive dominance of some kind -- but he lacks the singular vision and EXTREME forward thinking of Cromwell (Ni), so... I can see shades of INTJ at times (particularly in some of his prophecies about Henry -- he said rather early on that he may consider himself a friend to the king, but if the king might win a foreign castle by giving them Thomas More's head, he'd do it) but... I dunno, could INFP be correct?
Erasmus, though, there's a ENFP for you. Intense, theological, offensive, and thought-provoking all at once; his morality bled through once in awhile but fell beneath "I can turn everything into a joke" -- which is probably why I like Erasmus so much.
In general, I would agree that higher Si users rarely take impulsive risks it just isn't in out nature, especially where in a case such as Catherine's where she was dealing with a man like Henry, but, she wasn't pushing for no reason. She was doing it because she was trying to spread what she believed was right in religious policies through the kingdom. In the case of moral issues like this, SFJ's totally can do this if they are brave enough. Like lets bring Harry Potter into this because I can never get enough of that, Hermione Granger an ESTJ, wasn't reckless in the way Harry and Ron(SFP's) are but always put herself in danger if it was a moral issue.
But yeah Cromwell is so impressive, honestly Cromwell's work arguable has a lot more impact on modern Britain than Henry. Now we have religious freedom so the reformation has less impact but he was the first to ever really use Parliament and Parliamentary sovereignty is the main principle of out constitution, but I'm getting side tracked.
That's interesting about Catherine of Aragon though I had never considered an ESTJ, but i could certainly see an argument for it. Fi grip maybe? Luckily I've never seen an Te dom lose a husband so I don't know how much allowence to give for that. I'd probably still lean towards an ESFJ though, but that's probably something interesting to explore.
Wolsey, yep ESTJ for sure.
INFP for More, possibility if he is an INTJ then he has strong Fi for sure, but where is the evidence for Ne? Could say ISFP? Can't see much Se though, and I think if he had higher Se he would have been more prone to impulsive behaviour, More never behaved like Anne in that way. He just seemed to have a lot of Ni and Fi. But could still be an INTJ, Cromwell wanted reform, to change thing, More did not so there was not so much of a need for a singular focus on change and a plan for it. Plus,as intelligent as More was in terms of brains(although not emotion intelligence) Cromwell is impressive by any standards, so is it fair to compare other INTJ's to him in that way, I don't know?
But if we want to play out the argument for INFP then his Fi is clear, you can see Te in him definitely, and I could Si in the way that he clung to Catholicism as a system, stayed with Catherine of Aragon ect. But Ne? Personally I can't see much of it in his work/life? Is there anywhere you can see it?
But yeah Cromwell is so impressive, honestly Cromwell's work arguable has a lot more impact on modern Britain than Henry. Now we have religious freedom so the reformation has less impact but he was the first to ever really use Parliament and Parliamentary sovereignty is the main principle of out constitution, but I'm getting side tracked.
That's interesting about Catherine of Aragon though I had never considered an ESTJ, but i could certainly see an argument for it. Fi grip maybe? Luckily I've never seen an Te dom lose a husband so I don't know how much allowence to give for that. I'd probably still lean towards an ESFJ though, but that's probably something interesting to explore.
Wolsey, yep ESTJ for sure.
INFP for More, possibility if he is an INTJ then he has strong Fi for sure, but where is the evidence for Ne? Could say ISFP? Can't see much Se though, and I think if he had higher Se he would have been more prone to impulsive behaviour, More never behaved like Anne in that way. He just seemed to have a lot of Ni and Fi. But could still be an INTJ, Cromwell wanted reform, to change thing, More did not so there was not so much of a need for a singular focus on change and a plan for it. Plus,as intelligent as More was in terms of brains(although not emotion intelligence) Cromwell is impressive by any standards, so is it fair to compare other INTJ's to him in that way, I don't know?
But if we want to play out the argument for INFP then his Fi is clear, you can see Te in him definitely, and I could Si in the way that he clung to Catholicism as a system, stayed with Catherine of Aragon ect. But Ne? Personally I can't see much of it in his work/life? Is there anywhere you can see it?
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Cromwell... I have mixed feelings about; I admire his intelligence and vision for England, but he was also unscrupulous and power-hungry. His foolish oversight with Anne of Cleves brought about his AWFUL death.
KoA was so good with people, I lean Fe. Others' comments about her were to the extent of "lively and spirited, able to smile even in the faces of her enemies." She put on a show during the divorce that nothing was wrong -- she kept acting in her role as queen, hosting banquets and entertainments until he banished her. ESTJ is an interesting thought, though.
Thomas More spent 90% of his time philosophizing, arguing theology with Erasmus, Mountjoy, John Holt, and other great thinkers of the period; he believed in social advancement and moving society forward toward greater educational venues; he wrote poetry, satire, and serious works; his "Utopia" is a satire of a society without emotion, which is also a cleverly worded attack on sovereignty (it always cracks me up when people use "Utopia" as an "ideal society" in a literal sense; More was MOCKING it, to absurd lengths, and modern readers seem to take it seriously!). He devoted a great deal of his time and thought to wanting to revise Catholicism -- but from within, not without; he thought (accurately) that Martin Luther (INTJ)'s method would create division, anarchy, and riots across Europe. His decision to ruthlessly attempt to eradicate Reform from within England stemmed in part due to the 100,000 German peasants murdered overseas in the Protestant uprising.
All of that to say: he was an intuitive, always thinking forward in some sense; and he did seem to 'mock' along the same lines as Erasmus (ENFP) but there again, many of the satirists of the period used similar approaches, so I'm not sure you can designate it as "Ne" wherever it is found.
More had a bit more respect for his Catholic faith than Erasmus, though; Erasmus managed to be simultaneously pious and mocking.
KoA was so good with people, I lean Fe. Others' comments about her were to the extent of "lively and spirited, able to smile even in the faces of her enemies." She put on a show during the divorce that nothing was wrong -- she kept acting in her role as queen, hosting banquets and entertainments until he banished her. ESTJ is an interesting thought, though.
Thomas More spent 90% of his time philosophizing, arguing theology with Erasmus, Mountjoy, John Holt, and other great thinkers of the period; he believed in social advancement and moving society forward toward greater educational venues; he wrote poetry, satire, and serious works; his "Utopia" is a satire of a society without emotion, which is also a cleverly worded attack on sovereignty (it always cracks me up when people use "Utopia" as an "ideal society" in a literal sense; More was MOCKING it, to absurd lengths, and modern readers seem to take it seriously!). He devoted a great deal of his time and thought to wanting to revise Catholicism -- but from within, not without; he thought (accurately) that Martin Luther (INTJ)'s method would create division, anarchy, and riots across Europe. His decision to ruthlessly attempt to eradicate Reform from within England stemmed in part due to the 100,000 German peasants murdered overseas in the Protestant uprising.
All of that to say: he was an intuitive, always thinking forward in some sense; and he did seem to 'mock' along the same lines as Erasmus (ENFP) but there again, many of the satirists of the period used similar approaches, so I'm not sure you can designate it as "Ne" wherever it is found.
More had a bit more respect for his Catholic faith than Erasmus, though; Erasmus managed to be simultaneously pious and mocking.
I mean, the Anne of Cleaves thing wasn't smart for sure, I always just saw it as the actions of a desperate man sort of thing or maybe he thought he had more power than he really did because looking at the early years of him in power I couldn't see him making a mistake like that. But everyone loved Anne but Henry, others reportedly said she was attractive, plus she had insulted his appearance on their first meeting(the fact that she didn't recognise him) so although it may not have been smart, it was an understandable mistake. But for sure he was power hungry, but they all were like Wolsey, Richard Rich ect.
Really Crammer and Charles were the only ones that weren't so much and were still prominent in Henry's reign.
Yeah, I would agree that M. was an intuitive, to do that with so much of his time, a senor could do that if they really needed to, they wouldn't chose to.
It's odd that INTJ and INFP are the types that he seems most likely to be simply because they are usually pretty easy to distinguish between, I guess that's the thing about typing historical figures.
What would you say about his caution? Because generally he stuck to keeping quiet and doing as Henry asked but he would do the occupational thing that really pushed him, like helping the Holy Maid of Kent. It seems to look like inferior Se to me but since you're an ENFP, you may have more insight to an *NFP's behaviour in that situation.
It is certainly true that a main reason for his love of Catholicism came from his belief that it would not only benefit Europe a a society as well as that it would protect their souls.
The question is with this, where did that come from? Was it more morals and ethics? Or more comparable to Lord Varys, Game of Thrones(who I think is an INFJ, could be an ENFJ I guess but definitely an *NFJ) where it is more 'for the good of the realm' image of what Europe/England and the people needed, should be headed ect.
Really Crammer and Charles were the only ones that weren't so much and were still prominent in Henry's reign.
Yeah, I would agree that M. was an intuitive, to do that with so much of his time, a senor could do that if they really needed to, they wouldn't chose to.
It's odd that INTJ and INFP are the types that he seems most likely to be simply because they are usually pretty easy to distinguish between, I guess that's the thing about typing historical figures.
What would you say about his caution? Because generally he stuck to keeping quiet and doing as Henry asked but he would do the occupational thing that really pushed him, like helping the Holy Maid of Kent. It seems to look like inferior Se to me but since you're an ENFP, you may have more insight to an *NFP's behaviour in that situation.
It is certainly true that a main reason for his love of Catholicism came from his belief that it would not only benefit Europe a a society as well as that it would protect their souls.
The question is with this, where did that come from? Was it more morals and ethics? Or more comparable to Lord Varys, Game of Thrones(who I think is an INFJ, could be an ENFJ I guess but definitely an *NFJ) where it is more 'for the good of the realm' image of what Europe/England and the people needed, should be headed ect.
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