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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've had a shift in philosophies lately. I find that it is more important to focus on knowledge rather than what schools refer to as 'education'. In order to further my knowledge and experience, I neglect homework that is repetitive and that serves no actual purpose for making me a smarter, more knowledgeable person. Because of this, my grades in school have tanked, and now I am at a predicament. I have to choose between what I desire (An actual, stimulating work environment), and what everyone else desires (Repetition of work to 'teach' me good work ethic).

I understand that the idea behind homework, if not to help you learn, is to help you develop good work ethic. However, I do not think this is entirely true. Though for a majority of people, this could be productive, it may cause nothing but stress and depression for others who simply cannot find it at all helpful in any way. I find that, whenever I complete homework, I feel as if I had wasted all the time spent to do it. Granted, this is not the same with topics and ideas that I have not mastered. However, those homework assignments are rare, as I can very easily digest and comprehend complex concepts, as well as memorize vocabulary by second or third sound.

Am I deluded? Are my ideals incorrect? Should I conform to the school, or am I justified in my thoughts? I feel the education system needs a re-do so that the minorities aren't left out. Am I wrong?
 

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Just curious, how do you interpret schools' definition of "education"? How does it differ from your definition of the same term, and how does that conflict with "knowledge"?
 

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"I will never let school interfere with my education." -Mark Twain
I totally agree that some of the work given for homework is pointless; however, I think you really should conform to school and do your homework as it counts for a huge part of your grade in most classes. As an INTp myself, I understand the frustration, and I would much rather spend my time actually learning than taking dreary notes and such. Doing well in school is one of the best ways to be successful in America so I just suck it up, and let the fact that I procrastinate so much drive me to finish my assignments quickly.
 

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Education and knowledge are two different things indeed. A good education can help in the hunt for knowledge, but i think education is fundamentally something that you use for a variety of purposes, including gathering knowledge, while knowledge is like a raw material. It can be refined with better education. Someone can learn a great deal without educational skills, but educational skills should both assist them in this and also allow them to be better at applying or understanding the knowledge they have. Although i think both a practical education and a more academic-style education are very important. Some people i knew growing up for example just weren't academically minded, that's fine as long as they are open to some education in more practical skills.
 

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Well... I'm a guy who likes to go to the source of things. People seldom consider etymology when discerning words such as "education", to understand them in their root, not how they are defined with the passing of the ages, or in contemporary times. Education comes from the latin "educo", and if you look at its definition, what it means is "to draw without". But what does it mean to "draw without"? It means that knowledge already preexists in you prior to learning something, that intellect is much larger than we imagine. "To draw without" is more about Enlightenment, and it has to do with self knowledge, as ALL KNOWLEDGE in its essence is self knowledge, and to really know something, you must know it with the whole of you -- not just in concept or formation, but formulation, emotionally, physically, experiential, and experimentally. You can read a book about France and call yourself an expert without ever having gone there, and call this being educated. But you don't really know what France is like, you don't know the people, the atmosphere, the nuances of the language as spoken by they who were born in it, you don't really know the mindset of those in that country, the diversity directly, etc -- and how all of this relates to you, physically, mentally, and emotionally. Reading a book only appeals to one part of our learning, it appeals to the part we call intellect, but of a certain quality and tendency to become identified with it and judge all by it.

However, with that said... why not do homework lol? The thing is this you are in school and it should be expected that you have to do homework its alittle thing -- besides you dont want to regret not doing it later . homework, while being a pain, as another poster said reveals something about you, not just you as whatever your name is, but as a human. there is knowledge that is accessible to you about yourself while you are in the process of doing something. A lot of things are occurring at once, and you can learn something profound about yourself, by using such work as an catalyst to seeing yourself in a way that you have not before.you maybe able to see subtle chnages in your personality, how we justify our body, or justify other things in us with intellectual banter, when the real reason we may do something is because our body doesnt want too, or maybe our emotions are somewhere else, or perhaps a part of our personality would like to do other things, when what is being done would help it as well, in the long term.

of course it is different if you dont really want to go to college... but it seems you more so dont want to do your homework. what do you do instead of doing your homework? That may tell a lot about the situation... if you are studying other things, or have other intellectual endeavors, or other artistic ones, then its understandable, but if you are partying, hanging out with friends, playing video games, or eating cookies and stuff, then that will relate to something else, priorities being in the wrong place.

i do agree with education system needing a overhaul, but good luck with that. it would only happen if civilization as we know it falls, and a new one is able to be built upon a new paradigm of self. I dont think education can truly happen in the way it ought to be, without participation of the other parts that constitute our mind and beings -- i.e. not just logical deduction or linear processes, but intuition, the emotional, the motor functions/body... these are essential as well. but we have a education system which doesn really care about these, as a result, we encourage imbalance, and top heavy development.
 

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I've had a shift in philosophies lately. I find that it is more important to focus on knowledge rather than what schools refer to as 'education'. In order to further my knowledge and experience, I neglect homework that is repetitive and that serves no actual purpose for making me a smarter, more knowledgeable person. Because of this, my grades in school have tanked, and now I am at a predicament. I have to choose between what I desire (An actual, stimulating work environment), and what everyone else desires (Repetition of work to 'teach' me good work ethic).

I understand that the idea behind homework, if not to help you learn, is to help you develop good work ethic. However, I do not think this is entirely true. Though for a majority of people, this could be productive, it may cause nothing but stress and depression for others who simply cannot find it at all helpful in any way. I find that, whenever I complete homework, I feel as if I had wasted all the time spent to do it. Granted, this is not the same with topics and ideas that I have not mastered. However, those homework assignments are rare, as I can very easily digest and comprehend complex concepts, as well as memorize vocabulary by second or third sound.
Am I deluded? Are my ideals incorrect? Should I conform to the school, or am I justified in my thoughts? I feel the education system needs a re-do so that the minorities aren't left out. Am I wrong?
your ideals aren't necessarily incorrect, as long as you realize that they are just that: ideals. the reality is that the primary purpose of formalized education is to prepare students for in demand jobs with high paying salaries. don't get me wrong, outside learning is wonderful, and the institution which is public education is absurdly inefficient, but good luck finding a high paying job without a degree. sometimes advancing means playing by the rules of an inefficient system until you have the financial and social leverage to make your own.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Just curious, how do you interpret schools' definition of "education"? How does it differ from your definition of the same term, and how does that conflict with "knowledge"?
I would define education as the continual pursuit of knowledge. My perception of the school boards education of knowledge is to conform and gear children all to one specific type of occupation; one that requires extensive amounts of work that may, or may not, be found appealing to said person. Through this, they restrict the learning capabilities of many individuals who are capable of exceeding the standards that constrain them.
 

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I remember my NT friend in a computer class one day in high school. We were learning spreadsheets or something. It was tedious nonsense. So the teacher is walking around checking progress. My friend just tells him, he ain't doing it. lol. He is firm. "I will never do this stuff in my life, and this is a waste of my existence." He was mad that anyone would even try to make him do it another second. The teacher didn't really know what to do.

I just randomly find people I like. My educational patterns are totally my own. I'll jump through the hoops at school, but I remember what I want, and am on my own path outside of that. It can be done. They can complement each other. You can learn things from people you would never expect.

I took a sign language class once as an elective. I learned stuff in there. I really don't remember any signs, but I learned about linguistics and other things. They weren't taught explicitly. But I put it together with other knowledge I had.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A lot of things are occurring at once, and you can learn something profound about yourself, by using such work as an catalyst to seeing yourself in a way that you have not before.you maybe able to see subtle chnages in your personality, how we justify our body, or justify other things in us with intellectual banter, when the real reason we may do something is because our body doesnt want too, or maybe our emotions are somewhere else, or perhaps a part of our personality would like to do other things, when what is being done would help it as well, in the long term.

That may tell a lot about the situation... if you are studying other things, or have other intellectual endeavors, or other artistic ones, then its understandable, but if you are partying, hanging out with friends, playing video games, or eating cookies and stuff, then that will relate to something else, priorities being in the wrong place.
I never thought to look at it in the way you described it... I thought of it merely as a boost for those who needed help academically, and a constraint for those who wandered too far ahead.

My past 12 years of existence have been dedicated to learning. Parties are too loud, too crowded. They restrict the imagination. Video games are dull and lack stimulation. Cookies are good, though... I use my free time for as many intellectual pursuits as I can, whether it be self-education through books, stimulation through works of literature, or even conversations with friends to learn more about how their mind works, what their values are, etc.
 

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Meh, school can be very boring and I neglected my homework too. Maybe it would be better if I didn't, but I wasn't thinking about it much, I just stopped doing it. It felt bad so I avoided it. But I think you should not neglect it, if anything so you will have more opportunities later to pursue goals related to grades, i.e. university. It would be a shame for you to decide to go to university later on and not be able to because you disliked doing homework, even though you were perfectly capable (and likely good), don't you think? Don't close doors.
And on the matter of real education, it should teach you how to learn. For example, I was discussing with my sister about how in elementary school they taught us how to count, but also in a way that we would understand "what number comes next", because we used our hands or other visual stimuli. Nowadays kids just do exercises in their books and are less capable of understanding the sequence of numbers (as some of my sister's friends with kids have told her). I've even seen that in people a few years younger than me, who are not capable of learning new things unless being taught.

Oh, and I've learned a lot of things from video games, with the most important, English. You can basically learn anything from anything as I've come to understand. There's always something new in anything around you. Even socialising, which can be hard for us introverts, can teach you so much.
 

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Some things are best learned through rote/repetition. Practice is important to the process of storing certain types of "skill knowledge" in permanent memory, but even then, if one does not regularly use it, it will start to fade.

I had a love/hate relationship with homework. I rarely did it. I usually was able to pull out a B/C on the tests without it, but I could have done better had I simply done the work.
 

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My friend just tells him, he ain't doing it. lol. He is firm. "I will never do this stuff in my life, and this is a waste of my existence." He was mad that anyone would even try to make him do it another second. The teacher didn't really know what to do.
I would disagree with your friend here, though. I believe everything that a school tries to teach us can be vitally important, since we never know what we'll be doing in the future, what opportunities would present themselves. On the flip side, I would argue with him saying that any work above what is necessary to learn and master is a waste, as it does no good to either the student nor the teacher. It wastes the time of the student, and it wastes the time of the grader.
 

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I would disagree with your friend here, though. I believe everything that a school tries to teach us can be vitally important, since we never know what we'll be doing in the future, what opportunities would present themselves. On the flip side, I would argue with him saying that any work above what is necessary to learn and master is a waste, as it does no good to either the student nor the teacher. It wastes the time of the student, and it wastes the time of the grader.
How I see it is: this guy didn't make the rules. It's his job. Just do it. That is what school is about. Lashing out at the teacher, will get nothing accomplished. I have tried this before.

First year at university. I was in a short story class or something. It was an elective, I didn't want to be there. But I do like literature. So first day, we read something, and give our thoughts on it. We write it, and hand it in. I was mad. lol. Another boring story, I am supposed to psychoanalyze. How original. It will hit all the same themes too. I don't even remember what the story was, probably something famous. But I didn't address the story in my homework, I addressed the education system. It was a diatribe, that this story is proof that minds are dull. I called the story she told us to read, "tedious nonsense". And an insult.

I was actually looking forward to the teacher's reaction, because I thought it was a good argument. Outside the box too. So she hands me back my homework, with no comments or grades on it. But with a drop slip attached. "This course isn't for you." she says. She doesn't want to debate that. So I did drop it.
 

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I've had a shift in philosophies lately. I find that it is more important to focus on knowledge rather than what schools refer to as 'education'. In order to further my knowledge and experience, I neglect homework that is repetitive and that serves no actual purpose for making me a smarter, more knowledgeable person. Because of this, my grades in school have tanked, and now I am at a predicament. I have to choose between what I desire (An actual, stimulating work environment), and what everyone else desires (Repetition of work to 'teach' me good work ethic).

I understand that the idea behind homework, if not to help you learn, is to help you develop good work ethic. However, I do not think this is entirely true. Though for a majority of people, this could be productive, it may cause nothing but stress and depression for others who simply cannot find it at all helpful in any way. I find that, whenever I complete homework, I feel as if I had wasted all the time spent to do it. Granted, this is not the same with topics and ideas that I have not mastered. However, those homework assignments are rare, as I can very easily digest and comprehend complex concepts, as well as memorize vocabulary by second or third sound.

Am I deluded? Are my ideals incorrect? Should I conform to the school, or am I justified in my thoughts? I feel the education system needs a re-do so that the minorities aren't left out. Am I wrong?
I won't answer the questions you've posited, but I will provide you with my own experience and let you make up your own mind about it.

I went through the same experience as you. In public school, I was told that I should perform very repetitive and mundane tasks and that the best use of my time was rote-learning. They didn't teach in ways that were stimulating but gave you textbooks and expected you to download the information into your brain. I couldn't learn this way at all, and I ended up dropping out of school for a good year or so. Education, knowledge, or whatever you want to call it, it's always been about discovery for me. I don't want to learn about what I'm not interested in, and I don't want my learning experience to be the repetition of meaningless information chunks. So, during that year off, I did a lot of self-exploration. I got back to the basics and found out what things were really important to me. I started re-igniting my interest in learning, but with a different direction. At the beginning of my time off, it was slow. I did a whole lot of nothing, just watching lots of tv shows online and posting on forums, so nothing much came of that, but I think it was crucial downtime. After I had spent awhile doing that though, I wanted more. There were things that caught my attention and I would read about them. I would posit questions and seek answers. I no longer saw my education in terms of grades, jobs, and rote-learning, but as a life-path and a journey for which I was ultimately responsible. If I don't find something beneficial to my learning and I don't find it useful, I won't do it. I won't do homework if I know the material and I won't waste any time on things that require such rote-learning. Instead, I approach learning with an inquisitive mind and I seek to use all the information I gather to connect me to a greater understanding. I do my best to unify this information and have it inform me and aid me in my future journey. I allow it to give me a greater appreciation of things of which I was previously ignorant. I've since re-enrolled in school and I'm finishing it up online, and the online part is a very big thing for me. Public school forced this ideology down my throat and it's very, very rigid. It doesn't cater to my learning style. There are more things to be said on that, but it wouldn't serve this paragraph much good. Suffice to say, online learning was much better. I was able to set my own pace, follow leads that interested me, and spend more time where I felt it was needed (and less where it wasn't). All in all, I'm very thankful that I dropped out and spent that time discovering what mattered. I'm thankful that I take my own approach to learning. I feel like I have greatly benefited from taking my own path, asking my own questions, and taking the initiative to seek out my own answers. Learning, in my opinion, should never be a chore. You don't learn that way, at least not effectively. Learning should be a journey and an experience for which you follow your heart and intuition.

If I had to give you any advice, it'd be to take your own path. I think that in doing so, you'll feel most rewarded and happy with the outcomes.
 

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I've had a shift in philosophies lately. I find that it is more important to focus on knowledge rather than what schools refer to as 'education'. In order to further my knowledge and experience, I neglect homework that is repetitive and that serves no actual purpose for making me a smarter, more knowledgeable person. Because of this, my grades in school have tanked, and now I am at a predicament. I have to choose between what I desire (An actual, stimulating work environment), and what everyone else desires (Repetition of work to 'teach' me good work ethic).

I understand that the idea behind homework, if not to help you learn, is to help you develop good work ethic. However, I do not think this is entirely true. Though for a majority of people, this could be productive, it may cause nothing but stress and depression for others who simply cannot find it at all helpful in any way. I find that, whenever I complete homework, I feel as if I had wasted all the time spent to do it. Granted, this is not the same with topics and ideas that I have not mastered. However, those homework assignments are rare, as I can very easily digest and comprehend complex concepts, as well as memorize vocabulary by second or third sound.

Am I deluded? Are my ideals incorrect? Should I conform to the school, or am I justified in my thoughts? I feel the education system needs a re-do so that the minorities aren't left out. Am I wrong?
Do enough of your homework to get B's or C's. Spend the rest of your time reading books, articles, theories, etc. to gain the education you yearn for. Then you can implement this knowledge when it counts. If you skip out on school, it will be hard to recover, and you will be holding all this knowledge for what?
 

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Am I deluded? Are my ideals incorrect? Should I conform to the school, or am I justified in my thoughts? I feel the education system needs a re-do so that the minorities aren't left out. Am I wrong?
Unfortunately, you have to play the game and get your degree or you will be voted off the island. So do whatever's necessary to accomplish your long-term goals.

That said, education is the institutionalised feeding of knowledge so product pops out in similar shapes and sizes. The advantages are that businesses have a quick filter for their hiring practices and that if people 'think' in similar ways, it's also easier to communicate in a manner understood by most (the majority of millennials have gotten or are in the process of getting degrees) which ensures for less stress in the workplace because of group cohesion.
 

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You can be the most knowledgeable man/woman in the world, but without the proper papers/qualifications, you're going to have a harder time finding opened doors. And while they occasionally cross paths, I tend to view education as a "need" and knowledge as a "want", meaning one is for the sake of advancing in life, and the other as a form of personal fulfillment.
 
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In my experience, public education is more about memorizing information rather than understanding that information. Knowledge is about learning. A good education would introduce information to students, explaining it for multiple learning styles, and then find a way to apply it to reality. Tests would involve students "teaching" the teacher what they've learned, rather than regurgitating memorized facts they don't understand.
 

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I think that education is essentially important. Education should equate to knowledge and wisdom. But often, that is not the case. Most education systems fail to bring out the best in you. They don't emphasize the importance of growing as a person; to utilize your strengths in the best way possible. Even in universities, many classes are just about memorizing information rather than fully understanding it. Students only care about passing the class, without actual understanding of the subject. They're not entirely at fault. It's the result of a poor system.
 
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